Jan's BloodTest April13/2007

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    JANSZ THAT IS WAY TOO FRICKEN HIGH !! YOU ARE GOING TO CAUSE PROBLEMS WITH ESTROGEN AND TESTOSTERONE RECEPTORS and DOWN REGULATION IN THE BRAIN YOU ARE ALSO GOING TO STRESS OTHER SYSTEMS SUCH AS THYROID AND ADRENALS !! LEARN FROM MY MISTAKES !! You will feel good for 2-4 weeks then all of sudden you will crash big time..Plus after 800-900 you cross over the benefit/risk ratio and dht/ estrogen is going go up the roof TRUST ME SHIPPEN LAID IT INTO ME TODAY. I TOLD HIM WHAT I WAS DOING AND HE TOLD ME MY DR DID NOT KNOW WTF HE WAS DOING !! MORE IS NOT BETTER !!

    STICK TO 42.5 mgs of test every 3 days with 250 ius hcg and then you can increase it, but Shippen told me average male makes 50-70 mgs of testosterone a week !!
    42.5*7/3=99.2mg/week

    This is 1-2 months plan, then I am going to check
    Estradiol, Bioavailable
    Estradiol, Free
    Estradiol, Ultra-sensitive
    Estrogens, Total, Serum
    Estrone,serum

    Testosterone Free
    Testosterone Bioavailable

    and adjust dose

    using T creme I ended with low TT=400's on 1 gram, I had to increase to 2grams
    I do not want to do blood test now to see where I am at
    I will test within 2 months.

    Before Tcream I was on 10grams of Androgel, TT=932, felt better.


  2. Ok, got my first T shot.
    28 units on insuline syringe.
    Used 29ga 1/2cc, it flows in real easy from the vial and then shot,
    wonder if I should try 30Ga, specially if it was 3/10cc (hopefully even smaller piston)??
    Then on the other side of my navel 250iu HCG
    Tomorrow shots free day.
    D2-T+250iu HCG
    D3
    D4
    D5-T+500iu HCG
    start of normal E3D schedule

    Shots were done hour ago, still waiting for any pain, so far nothing at all.

    I used container from old medicine to store Depo-T vial.
    I put the little cap on top of vial and then closed the whole thing, fits snug.
    Look at the picture
    Depo-T vial
    29ga 1/2cc
    30ga 1cc
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    •   
       


  3. Jansz your going taking 3 steps backwards and one forward.
    what is dosage of testosterone you are taking every 3 days?
    The dosages you are doing are crossing the benefit/risk ratio of TRT and are headed into steroid usage which will only put stress on entire endocrine system and will feel good for 2-3 weeks untill your testosterone and estrogen receptors are over loaded and then you will crash. Been there did that done that. Your adrenals are already stress and adjusting your testosterone dosge to 800-900 on blood test on second day after the injection will give you a good average. Your e2 and DHT are going to go out the roof and like Dr Shippen told me using another drug inorder to offset side effects to push above the numbers all the way to high end is fuked up.

    Think of it this way
    bypossible swtiching over to hcg +injections and keeping them in upper 25% of the range you will lower dht and e2 which will reduce the need for finisterde and armidex. More is not better Bro and personally you are going to end up causing major cardiovascaular problems in the future tinkering around with those dosages. Go 42.5 mgs every 3 days with 250 ius retest in 4 weeks then increase if not into target range

  4. Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    Jansz your going taking 3 steps backwards and one forward.
    what is dosage of testosterone you are taking every 3 days?
    The dosages you are doing are crossing the benefit/risk ratio of TRT and are headed into steroid usage which will only put stress on entire endocrine system and will feel good for 2-3 weeks untill your testosterone and estrogen receptors are over loaded and then you will crash. Been there did that done that. Your adrenals are already stress and adjusting your testosterone dosge to 800-900 on blood test on second day after the injection will give you a good average. Your e2 and DHT are going to go out the roof and like Dr Shippen told me using another drug inorder to offset side effects to push above the numbers all the way to high end is fuked up.

    Think of it this way
    bypossible swtiching over to hcg +injections and keeping them in upper 25% of the range you will lower dht and e2 which will reduce the need for finisterde and armidex. More is not better Bro and personally you are going to end up causing major cardiovascaular problems in the future tinkering around with those dosages. Go 42.5 mgs every 3 days with 250 ius retest in 4 weeks then increase if not into target range
    My intent is to stay within upper values of ranges specified by Quest for
    Free T, FreeE
    BioT, BioE

    Within last week Phil posted his dose IIRC about 150, he eats the T like nobody else.
    There was another bro, he went down from 200 to 140/week on doctors advice.
    My dose is designed to be 130/week on average.
    I will do blood test within 2 months or sooner if I feel need for it, I will do adjustments at that time.
    I do not use Arimidex, hopefully will stay that way.
    I do 6 pills of DualAction and 2 pills of TMG, so far that was working good for me.
    Recently I added 3 pills of Resveratrol (300mg/day), this is on top of what Resveratrol is in DualAction.
    I am not really clear how Resveratol influences Estrogens, but supposedly it is good to take so I do.

    DHT, I am hoping/expecting to end up with lower values than when on cream or gel. Supposedly it is largely a function of skin area, time will tell. I am out of Avodart (and Proscar) for long time, minimizing medicines.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    My intent is to stay within upper values of ranges specified by Quest for
    Free T, FreeE
    BioT, BioE

    Within last week Phil posted his dose IIRC about 150, he eats the T like nobody else.
    There was another bro, he went down from 200 to 140/week on doctors advice.
    My dose is designed to be 130/week on average.
    I will do blood test within 2 months or sooner if I feel need for it, I will do adjustments at that time.
    I do not use Arimidex, hopefully will stay that way.
    I do 6 pills of DualAction and 2 pills of TMG, so far that was working good for me.
    Recently I added 3 pills of Resveratrol (300mg/day), this is on top of what Resveratrol is in DualAction.
    I am not really clear how Resveratol influences Estrogens, but supposedly it is good to take so I do.

    DHT, I am hoping/expecting to end up with lower values than when on cream or gel. Supposedly it is largely a function of skin area, time will tell. I am out of Avodart (and Proscar) for long time, minimizing medicines.
    phil also has hypopititaury that is also being finally treated properly with all hormones inclusing aldosterone which does effect estrogen metabolism in some way but have not found out how but it really will tank ones e2

    120 mgs a week put me at trough at 1111 TT but bio T was only mid way ? and that was on a 2 week split m,th 60 mgs with 250 ius hcg day before the shot. Blood was drwn on monday morning before shot and i was on .5 mgs armidex on day of shot but quest did the wrong test for e2 and royally set me back almost 2 months because of it..Now on stable test E at 42.5 mgs every 3 days with 250 ius of hcg with .5 mgs armidex on day of the shot to help bring down the e2 levels of 73 will retest in 4 weeks
    e2, dht, biotest, TT, homocysteine, Lp(a), ft4, ft3, copper, ferritin, CBC, CMP
    •   
       


  6. Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    phil also has hypopititaury that is also being finally treated properly with all hormones inclusing aldosterone which does effect estrogen metabolism in some way but have not found out how but it really will tank ones e2

    120 mgs a week put me at trough at 1111 TT but bio T was only mid way ? and that was on a 2 week split m,th 60 mgs with 250 ius hcg day before the shot. Blood was drwn on monday morning before shot and i was on .5 mgs armidex on day of shot but quest did the wrong test for e2 and royally set me back almost 2 months because of it..Now on stable test E at 42.5 mgs every 3 days with 250 ius of hcg with .5 mgs armidex on day of the shot to help bring down the e2 levels of 73 will retest in 4 weeks
    e2, dht, biotest, TT, homocysteine, Lp(a), ft4, ft3, copper, ferritin, CBC, CMP
    It is complex proposition, but if TT=1111 have given you BioT only in the middle range I would probably stay at that T level and try to straighten up my act in other areas.

    It is very important to have steady routine and not to get screwed by laboratory.
    For my next test I will go to Quest lab, script in hand and have them prepare paperwork first.
    I did that first time and they let me check the tests that they were going to do.
    I still missed pregnenolone and double Testosterone, but that was realy my fault, one can say.
    Unfortunately with large tests there is big chance for screw-ups.

  7. Nails,
    You are 25 to 30 something with testicals that still produce T. JansZ is older with testicals that probably produce nothing.

    It is very very likely he will need more T than you to end up in upper range.

    hCG in people with responding testes, healthy young leydig cells will crank up T 200 points(Like in you)

    JansZ testicals are probably permanently shutdown, leydig cells in testes will become basically 'dead" from having years of no response/use, desensitized. hCG still benefit though because balls will swell up, prevent scrotum from tightening up, for looks as well.

    I have read stuff that hCG will boost mood, blood flow of genital area even if testicals do not work anymore.

    There is new cutting edge work now that has shown hCG is a very very potent fat burner and metabolism booster. Exact sceince of such is still unknown.

    hMG is the new guy on the block. It is basically FSH(follicle stimulating hormone). It combined with hCG(basically LH) and becomes a deadly, potent one-two punch. It will be the new wave, in future everyone will inject hCG and hMG in conjunction. Some are already on bandwagon. hCG and hMG is also the newest and improved way to restard HTPA axis.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    It is complex proposition, but if TT=1111 have given you BioT only in the middle range I would probably stay at that T level and try to straighten up my act in other areas.

    It is very important to have steady routine and not to get screwed by laboratory.
    For my next test I will go to Quest lab, script in hand and have them prepare paperwork first.
    I did that first time and they let me check the tests that they were going to do.
    I still missed pregnenolone and double Testosterone, but that was realy my fault, one can say.
    Unfortunately with large tests there is big chance for screw-ups.
    ACtually by lowering the dosage T will most likely not convert to e2 as much and also give my receptors rest. If i can reduce my medicines such as armidex and increase bioavailable testosterone. i think it will be just easier to reduce the TT and the dht and e2 should come down considerable rather then throwing in more medicines to comepnsate for it..

  9. Quote Originally Posted by plymouth city View Post
    Nails,
    You are 25 to 30 something with testicals that still produce T. JansZ is older with testicals that probably produce nothing.

    It is very very likely he will need more T than you to end up in upper range.

    hCG in people with responding testes, healthy young leydig cells will crank up T 200 points(Like in you)

    JansZ testicals are probably permanently shutdown, leydig cells in testes will become basically 'dead" from having years of no response/use, desensitized. hCG still benefit though because balls will swell up, prevent scrotum from tightening up, for looks as well.

    I have read stuff that hCG will boost mood, blood flow of genital area even if testicals do not work anymore.

    There is new cutting edge work now that has shown hCG is a very very potent fat burner and metabolism booster. Exact sceince of such is still unknown.

    hMG is the new guy on the block. It is basically FSH(follicle stimulating hormone). It combined with hCG(basically LH) and becomes a deadly, potent one-two punch. It will be the new wave, in future everyone will inject hCG and hMG in conjunction. Some are already on bandwagon. hCG and hMG is also the newest and improved way to restard HTPA axis.
    Research, and reports of people who used it would help.
    It would have to be from somebody who did not cared for fertility but cared primarily for health and happy love making.
    .

  10. Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    Research, and reports of people who used it would help.
    It would have to be from somebody who did not cared for fertility but cared primarily for health and happy love making.
    .
    JansZ,

    Im on it, but remember, hMG and hCG in conjunction for HRT is probably only being used by a few hundred people at best right now, probably all within the last year. this is very very new territory

  11. Quote Originally Posted by plymouth city View Post
    JansZ,

    Im on it, but remember, hMG and hCG in conjunction for HRT is probably only being used by a few hundred people at best right now, probably all within the last year. this is very very new territory
    Well, thanks for being open about.
    But now few questions.

    Have you been on HCG alone for enough time to be able feel difference if any when you added HMG?

    What is that difference?

    What brand of HMG that you are using, dose, frequency

    There is HCG, HMG and FSH, have you considered using all three?

    How much it cost?

    Where to buy to get good price?

    I can get script if I really am convinced of the benefits, so do not hold back.

    Why are you using HMG, are you trying to get her pregnant or for personal fulfilment?
    --------------------------------------------------------

    Wish you luck
    --------------------------------------------------------
    http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/536457-post31.html

    In this post, on the bottom, there is a link to a table that shows different brands of
    FSH
    HCG
    HMG

  12. What is the cheapest injectible fertility drug you can buy in the US?
    Question:
    What is the cheapest injectible fertility drug you can buy in the US? I have heard of quite a few different injectible drugs you can use (i.e., Pergonal, HMG, Humegon, etc) and want to know if there is a drug that is cheaper than the others and also is it effective?


    Answer:
    - FSH/LH drugs (HMG): Repronex is cheapest in most places, Humegon next, then Pergonal is much more costly. They are all basically the same. FSH: Only Fertinex to choose from. RhFSH: Follistim is cheaper than Gonal-F in most places. Repronex or Humegon are probably the cheapest injectible meds you can get ahold of right now. - And repronex works, trust me. That's what I'm using. Now if we can just get those darn sperm to swim in the right direction...




    Gonal -F® 75 IU
    (Serono Europe Pack) $48.50

    Gonal -F® 900 IU PEN
    (Serono Europe Pack) $580.00

    Follistim® (Puregon®) 300 IU
    (Organon Europe Pack) $172.50

    Follistim® (Puregon®) 600 IU
    (Organon Europe Pack) $345.00

    Repronex®(Menopur®) 75 IU
    (Ferring Europe Pack) $34.00

    HMG (Generic Repronex®) 75 IU
    (Generic Europe Pack) $12.75


    Fostimon® (Gen. Bravelle®) 75 IU
    (IBSA Europe Pack) $28.00

    HCG (Pregnyl®) 10,000 IU
    (Organon Europe Pack) $25.00


    Lupron® - 14 day, 2.8 ml
    (Abbott Europe Pack) $170.00

    Synarel® Spray (0.2 mg/0.5ml)
    (Pharmacia Europe Pack) $190.00

    Antagon®(Orgalutran®) .25 mg/.5 ml
    (Organon Europe Pack) $57.00

    Cetrotide® 0.25 mg
    (Serono Europe Pack) $60.00

    Ovidrel® (Ovitrelle®) (250 mcg)
    (Serono Europe Pack) $58.00

    Clomid® 50 mg (each)
    (Aventis Europe Pack) $1.50
    ============================== ============================== ===============


    Bravelle™ 75 International Units Vial
    Cetrotide® .25mg prefilled syringe
    Cetrotide® 3mg prefilled syringe
    Clomiphene Citrate 50mg Tabs
    Crinone Gel 8% Vaginal Applicators
    Fertile One vitamin supplement 120 Tablets
    Follistim® AQ 300 International Units, 600 International Units and 900 International Units Cartridge
    75 International Units and 150 International Units Vial
    Ganirelix (formerly Antagon) 250mcg Syringe
    Gonal - F® 450 International Units Multi Dose Vial
    Gonal - F® RFF 75 International Units Vial
    Gonal - F® RFF Pen 300, 450 and 900
    HCG 10,000 International Units Vial
    IVIG Varies
    Lupron® 2 Week Kit
    Leuprolide Acetate 2 Week Kit
    Luveris® 75 International Units Vial
    Menopur® 75 International Units Vial
    Novarel™ 10,000 International Units Vial
    Ovidrel® 250mcg Prefilled Syringe
    Progesterone in Oil 50 mg/ml Vial
    10ml Vial
    Repronex® 75 International Units Vial

  13. Quote Originally Posted by JanSz
    What is the cheapest injectible fertility drug you can buy in the US?
    Question:
    What is the cheapest injectible fertility drug you can buy in the US? I have heard of quite a few different injectible drugs you can use (i.e., Pergonal, HMG, Humegon, etc) and want to know if there is a drug that is cheaper than the others and also is it effective?


    Answer:
    - FSH/LH drugs (HMG): Repronex is cheapest in most places, Humegon next, then Pergonal is much more costly. They are all basically the same. FSH: Only Fertinex to choose from. RhFSH: Follistim is cheaper than Gonal-F in most places. Repronex or Humegon are probably the cheapest injectible meds you can get ahold of right now. - And repronex works, trust me. That's what I'm using. Now if we can just get those darn sperm to swim in the right direction...
    ============================== ============================== ==========




    Gonal -F® 75 IU
    (Serono Europe Pack) $48.50

    Gonal -F® 900 IU PEN
    (Serono Europe Pack) $580.00

    Follistim® (Puregon®) 300 IU
    (Organon Europe Pack) $172.50

    Follistim® (Puregon®) 600 IU
    (Organon Europe Pack) $345.00

    Repronex®(Menopur®) 75 IU
    (Ferring Europe Pack) $34.00

    HMG (Generic Repronex®) 75 IU
    (Generic Europe Pack) $12.75


    Fostimon® (Gen. Bravelle®) 75 IU
    (IBSA Europe Pack) $28.00

    HCG (Pregnyl®) 10,000 IU
    (Organon Europe Pack) $25.00


    Lupron® - 14 day, 2.8 ml
    (Abbott Europe Pack) $170.00

    Synarel® Spray (0.2 mg/0.5ml)
    (Pharmacia Europe Pack) $190.00

    Antagon®(Orgalutran®) .25 mg/.5 ml
    (Organon Europe Pack) $57.00

    Cetrotide® 0.25 mg
    (Serono Europe Pack) $60.00

    Ovidrel® (Ovitrelle®) (250 mcg)
    (Serono Europe Pack) $58.00

    Clomid® 50 mg (each)
    (Aventis Europe Pack) $1.50

    I tihnk you are not allowed to post that

  14. Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    I tihnk you are not allowed to post that
    One need script to buy from that place.
    I posted to get ball park prices and names.

  15. Using my study above using RoidCalculator, I note that on weekly injection test blood level are half on minimum of what they are at the max.
    ------
    Using this study, I know T levels at the minimum. Blood drawn on the day of weekly shot right before the shot.

    AJP - Endocrinology and Metabolism -- Bhasin et al. 281 (6): E1172 Table 2

    Testosterone dose-response relationships in healthy young men -- Bhasin et al. 281 (6): E1172 -- AJP - Endocrinology and Metabolism

    Testosterone dose-response relationships in healthy young men -- Bhasin et al. 281 (6): E1172 -- AJP - Endocrinology and Metabolism

    ------------------------
    My analysis is shown on the attached chart, also bottom line results are below. Variation= ±75 should be added when reading the table.
    Also remember that in the study endogenous testosterone was blocked, testis were not producing T during study.

    DepoT TotalT SHBG FreeT SHBG FreeT
    25 353 xxxx 300 xxxx 250
    30 381 xxxx 300 xxxx 250
    35 410 xxxx 300 xxxx 250
    40 438 xxxx 300 xxxx 250
    45 466 xxxx 300 xxxx 250
    50 494 xxxx 300 xxxx 250
    55 522 xxxx 300 xxxx 250
    60 551 xxxx 300 xxxx 250
    65 579 xxxx 300 xxxx 250
    70 607 xxxx 300 xxxx 250
    75 635 xxxx 300 xxxx 250
    80 663 xxxx 300 xxxx 250
    85 692 xxxx 300 xxxx 250
    90 720 xxxx 300 xxxx 250
    95 748 xxxx 300 xxxx 250
    100 776 xx5 300 14.4 250
    105 805 xx7 300 16.5 250
    110 833 xx9 300 18.6 250
    115 861 10.8 300 20.7 250
    120 889 xx13 300 xx23 250
    125 917 xx15 300 xx25 250
    130 946 16.7 300 x27.3 250
    135 974 18.7 300 x29.4 250
    140 1002 xx21 300 x31.5 250
    145 1030 22.6 300 x33.5 250
    150 1058 24.5 300 x35.6 250
    155 1087 26.4 300 xx38 250
    160 1115 28.4 300 xx40 250
    165 1143 30.4 300 x42.2 250
    170 1171 32.3 300 x44.4 250
    175 1199 34.3 300 x46.3 250
    180 1228 36.3 300 x48.5 250
    185 1256 38.2 300 x50.7 250
    190 1284 xx40 300 x52.8 250
    195 1312 xxxx 300 xx55 250
    200 1340 xx44 300 xx57 250
    205 1369 xxxx 300 x59.3 250
    210 1397 xx48 300 x61.5 250
    215 1425 xxxx 300 x63.4 250
    220 1453 51.7 300 xxxx 250
    225 1481 xxxx 300 xxxx 250
    230 1510 55.6 300 xxxx 250
    235 1538 xxxx 300 xxxx 250
    240 1566 xxxx 300 xxxx 250
    245 1594 xxxx 300 xxxx 250
    250 1622 63.5 300 xxxx 250
    255 1651 xxxx 300 xxxx 250
    260 1679 xxxx 300 xxxx 250
    265 1707 xxxx 300 xxxx 250
    270 1735 71.0 300 xxxx 250
    275 1763 xxxx 300 xxxx 250
    280 1792 xxxx 300 xxxx 250
    285 1820 xxxx 300 xxxx 250
    290 1848 xxxx 300 xxxx 250
    295 1876 xxxx 300 xxxx 250
    300 1904 83.0 300 99.9 250
    =======================
    Free & Bioavailable Testosterone calculator
    ------------------------------
    Unit conversion
    Conventional units - SI units

    Chemistry Conversion

    Unit Prefix Conversion Calculator
    ------------------------------

    http://www.vin.com/calculators/ChemConvRules.htm

    ------------------------------
    SI Units for Clinical Data

    very big tabeConversion:

    to convert from the conventional unit to the SI unit, multiply by the conversion factor;
    to convert from the SI unit to the conventional unit, divide by the conversion factor.

    Estradiol pg/mL 3.671 pmol/L(30pg/mL * 3.671)=110.13pmol/L
    Estriol ng/mL 3.467 nmol/L
    Estrone ng/dL 37 pmoI/L
    Testosterone ng/dL 0.0347 nmol/L(700ng/dL * 0.0347)=24.9nmol/L
    DHEA ng/dL 0.0347 nmol/L
    DHEA Sulfate μg/dL 0.0271 μmol/L
    DHEAs 100 mcg/dL=100 µg/dL= 2.71µmol/L= 2.71umol/L
    DHEAs 500mcg/dL=500µg/dL=13.55µmol/L=13.55umol/L
    DHEAs 640mcg/dL=17.34µmol/L=17.34umol/L
    -------
    http://www.qcnet.com/Portals/50/PDFs...mmunoassay.pdf
    DHEA-S μmol/L/0.02714 ⇒μg/dL
    DHEA-S μmol/L ⇒0.02714μg/dL

    0.02714
    275 μg/dL = 7.4635 μmol/L
    400 μg/dL = 10.856 μmol/L
    520 μg/dL = 14.1128 μmol/L
    640 μg/dL = 17.3696 μmol/L
    ---------------------------------------
    Desirable DHEAs levels

    Women (275-400) μg/dL
    Men (520-640) μg/dL
    ---------------------------------------

    Pregnanediol (urine) mg/24h 3.12 µmoI/d
    Pregnanetriol (urine) mg/24 h 2.97 µmol/d
    Progesterone ng/mL 3.18 nmol/L
    1 nmol/L of Progesterone converts to 0.31 ng/mL




    http://www.vin.com/calculators/default.htm

    http://www.vin.com/calculators/ChemConvRules.htmChemConvRules<----------------big list

    http://www.questdiagnostics.com/hcp/...EndoManual.pdf
    mcg is a casual way of writing microgram. The correct symbol is µg, and there are 1000µg in 1 milligram


    ------------------------------
    Adrenal Labs - How to Interpret them ***
    Stop The Thyroid Madness :: View topic - *** Adrenal Labs - How to Interpret them ***

    Stop The Thyroid Madness » ADRENALS FAQ–the most frequently asked questions
    ------------------------------

    ============================== =============

    http://books.google.com/books?****Ylb...page&q&f=false


    /
    Attached Images Attached Images  
  16. Dr Shippen Chart


    Link to (TT, SHBG, FreeT) chart
    http://www.andropause.org.uk/nomo_tas.pdf

    The Andropause Society Home


    ============================== ============================== ==========
    Dr Shippen Chart

    Testosterone Conversion Factor: pg/ml x 3.47 = pMol/L

    Androgen deficiency in the adult ... - Google Books

    Androgen Deficiency in the Adult ... - Google Book Search

    This chart is from a book (second page from the top):

    Androgen Defficiency in the
    Adult Male
    causes, diagnosis and treatment
    by
    Malcom Carruthers

    printed by Taylor and Princes Group

    search on keyword
    nomogram androgen deficiency carruthers
    Attached Images Attached Images     

  17. Interesting....i applied my last two tests - used my shgb and TT and used this to calculate FreeT, and this chart resulted in almost 2x the Free t compared to my Quest results.

  18. Quote Originally Posted by AnotherOldGuy View Post
    Interesting....i applied my last two tests - used my shgb and TT and used this to calculate FreeT, and this chart resulted in almost 2x the Free t compared to my Quest results.
    I am not surprised.
    Was your FreeT assayed or calculated by Quest.
    There is at least two ways (probably more) to get number that is called FreeT.
    FreeT and BioAvailableT tests are notoriously inaccurate (grossly, over 200%).
    The chart is a fall-back way out of this confusion.
    Dr Shippen uses this chart (if that would help getting some confidence).

    The chart is 1999 vintage, made based on science of about 1990.
    To my knowledge there are at least two items that greatly influence results in rather uncontrolable ways;
    recently discovered duality of SHBG
    and
    fact that age of person being tested influences results.

    Wish Dr John had a time to discuss this issue.


    AnotherOldGuy, hopefully this issue will bother you enough so you will dig deeper, if you find anything helpfull and relevant please post it right here or open new thread.
    Not sure yet, but I think older guys are infueced more by this than younger whipper snappers.

    In this post
    Anabolic Steroids and Bodybuilding - View Single Post - Attention all those on Sub-q injections

    I have made attempt at calculating FreeT using internet provided calculator.
    Since results come widely scattered I no longer have confidence using it.

    age-associated Bio-T
    age-associated Bio-T

  19. My list for blood testing, long, for once/year testing.
    Latter will add shorter list, for 2-3/year corrective action, tweaks.
    Below are my ICD-9 codes that helps with insurance.

    Also place to buy syringes for Testosterone and HCG.
    (I modify this list as I learn about my preferences, if you follow this list, please check it shortly before you make test request)
    Print from here down to the next blue text.
    This list is meant to be done at LabCorp.com

    ============================== ==================

    1 --------- Comprehensive Metabolic Panel w/EGFR
    2 --------- CBC w/ diff/PLT
    3 --------- VAP TM Cholesterol Test
    4 --------- Selenium, Whole Blood
    5 --------- Copper, serum
    6 --------- Zinc
    7 --------- Magnesium, RBC
    8 --------- Potassium, RBC
    9 --------- C-Reactive Protein (CRP), Highly Sensitive, CSF
    10 --------- Fibrinogen
    11 --------- Homocysteine, cardio
    12 --------- Lipoprotein (A) Lp(A)
    13 --------- Iron and Iron Binding Capacity
    14 --------- Iron, Total
    15 --------- Ferritin
    16 --------- Transferrin
    17 --------- Folate, RBC & Hematocrit
    18 --------- Hemoglobin A1c
    19 --------- Hemoglobin, Plasma
    20 --------- VITAMIN A, E, B3, B12
    21 --------- Vitamin D, 25-Hydroxy
    22 --------- T3, Total
    23 --------- T4, Total
    24 --------- T3, Free
    25 --------- T4,Free
    26 --------- T3, Reverse
    27 --------- Ultrasensitive TSH
    28 --------- Thyroid Peroxidase and Thyroglobulin Antibodies
    29 --------- Thyroglobulin
    30 --------- Thyroxine-binding globulin
    31 --------- Insulin, serum
    32 --------- IGF Binding protein-3
    33 --------- IGF-1
    34 --------- DHEA Sulfate
    35 --------- Aldosterone
    36 --------- Renin Activity, Plasma
    37 --------- ACTH, Plasma
    38 --------- Cortisol Binding Globulin (Transcortin)
    39 --------- 7:30AM/12PM/3:30PM---Cortisol, Free and Total
    40 --------- Prolactin
    41 --------- Progesterone
    42 --------- Pregnenolone
    43 --------- Androstenedione
    44 --------- Estradiol, sensitive 140244 (3-70)
    45 --------- Estrone, Serum
    46 --------- Total Testosterone
    47 --------- SHBG
    48 --------- Albumin
    49 --------- Dihydrotestosterone
    50 --------- 3a-Androstanediol Glucuronide
    51 --------- Ceruloplasmin
    52 --------- Coenzyme Q10
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    244.9 ----- 257.2 ----- 780.79
    250.00 ----- 272.4 ----- 788.41
    250.01 ----- 601.9 ----- 253.3
    255.4 ----- 780.4 ----- 255.8
    783.9 -----
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    ============================== ============================== ===============
    End of list =========see another lis of ICD-9 codes on the bottom of this post ======
    (I modify this list as I learn about my preferences, if you follow this list, please check it shortly before you make test request)

    ICD9Data.com - Free 2007 ICD-9-CM Medical Coding Database

    244.9 Unspecified acquired hypothyroidism
    250.00 Diabetes mellitus without complication type ii or unspecified type not stated as uncontrolled 2009 ICD-9-CM Diagnosis 250.00 - Diabetes Mellitus Without Complication Type Ii Or Unspecified Type Not Stated As Uncontrolled
    250.01 Diabetes mellitus without complication type i not stated as uncontrolled 2009 ICD-9-CM Diagnosis 250.01 - Diabetes Mellitus Without Complication Type I Not Stated As Uncontrolled
    255.4 Corticoadrenal insufficiency 2009 ICD-9-CM Diagnosis 255.4 - Corticoadrenal Insufficiency
    783.9 Other symptoms concerning nutrition metabolism and development 2009 ICD-9-CM Diagnosis 783.9 - Other Symptoms Concerning Nutrition Metabolism And Development
    257.2 Other testicular hypofunction 2007 ICD-9-CM Diagnosis 257.2 - Other Testicular Hypofunction
    272.4 Other and unspecified hyperlipidemia 2007 ICD-9-CM Diagnosis 272.* - Disorders of lipoid metabolism
    601.9 Prostatitis unspecified 2007 ICD-9-CM Diagnosis 601.* - Inflammatory diseases of prostate
    780.4 Dizziness and giddiness 2007 ICD-9-CM Diagnosis 780.4 - Dizziness And Giddiness
    780.79 Other malaise and fatigue 2007 ICD-9-CM Diagnosis 780.79 - Other Malaise And Fatigue
    788.41 Urinary frequency 2007 ICD-9-CM Diagnosis 788.41 - Urinary Frequency
    253.3 Adult Onset Growth Hormone Deficiency
    255.8 Other specified disorders of adrenal glands 2007 ICD-9-CM Diagnosis 255.8 - Other Specified Disorders Of Adrenal Glands

    Anabolic Steroids and Bodybuilding - View Single Post - Adrenal fatigue, does it really exist?
    255 Disorders of adrenal glands
    For coding adrenal fatigue, I just use the code for Other Specified Disorders of the Adrenal Glands - which I call Adrenal Fatigue
    255.8 Other specified disorders of adrenal glands 2007 ICD-9-CM Diagnosis 255.8 - Other Specified Disorders Of Adrenal Glands
    HGH and Insurance Coverage
    Dr. John 12-17-2006, 06:25 AM
    ICD-9 253.3 Adult Onset Growth Hormone Deficiency
    ============================== ============================== =========================
    Spectracell codes
    244.90 Unspecified acquired hypothyroidism
    264.00 Vitamin a deficiency
    268.00 Vitamin d deficiency
    269.90 Unspecified nutritional deficiency
    780.79 Other malaise and fatigue
    799.81 Decreased libido
    ------->add something for lipids

    ============================== ============================== ===========
    EstroEssence

    that I send for on Monday Oct1/2007 had the following
    ICD-9 codes
    600.0
    606.1
    257.2
    253.4

    Genova Diagnostics EstroEssence

    The EstroEssence check the following 11 (eleven) indicators:

    Estrone (24hr urine)Male 3.00-12.00 mcg/24 hr
    Estradiol (24hr urine)Male1.50-6.00 mcg/24 hr
    Estriol (24hr urine)Male 3.00-28.50 mcg/24 hr

    2-Hydroxyestrone (24hr urine) 0.26-13.68 mcg/24 hr
    2-Methoxyestrone (24hr urine) 0.34-9.03 mcg/24 hr
    16α-Hydroxyestrone (24hr urine) 0.25-7.89 mcg/24 hr
    4-Hydroxyestrone (24hr urine) 0.33-1.95 mcg/24 hr
    4-Methoxyestrone (24hr urine) 0.40 0.20-1.60 mcg/24 hr
    2-Hydroxyestrone/16α-Hydroxestrone Ratio (24hr urine)0.94-1.56 Ratio
    2-Methoxyestrone/2-Hydroxyestrone Ratio (24hr urine) 0.11-4.00 Ratio
    4-Methoxyestrone /4-Hydroxyestrone Ratio (24hr urine) 0.18-3.60 Ratio
    ============================== ============================== =============
    The Metabolic profile that I send for on Monday Oct1/2007 had the following
    ICD-9 codes
    536.8
    579.8
    558.3
    783.2
    009.1
    ---------------------------
    Hair Tissue Mineral Analysis (HTMA)
    Hair Analysis

    At Genova they need 1" of hair from the back of head,
    approx 2 months growth,
    last 2 weeks wash hair with Johnson baby shampoo.
    Today I go to Kim for haircut, 11/16/2007, last time I had hair colored Oct12/2007
    Use stainless steel scissors
    500 milligrams has been recommended.
    minimum sample of 250 milligrams (0.25 g) for analysis
    Genova Diagnostics - Home
    -------------------------------------------------------
    Assessment Categories
    GDX Laboratory Assessment Categories
    ---------------------------------

    EstroEssence --(Cost $384.99 out of pocket $27.49)-- Genova Diagnostics EstroEssence

    EstroEssence Complete (24hr) this is the one to do next
    Check differences on taking samples NutrEval and NutrEval-NEW, want the one with 24 hr urine if there is such


    ============================== ==========================
    JanSz-Metabolic Analysis and Cellular Energy

    Jan's BloodTest April13/2007

    Magnesium, how to increase

    Endocrinological charts
    Endocrinological charts

    Bill for my blood test at Quest

    Perfect way of finding right doctor

    Jansz - more infor on methy estrone imbalnace

    GLA but AA below range

    Quality supplements (Wise Guy et alii)

    -------http://mus--clecha---troom.com/forum/showthread.php?t=395&page=2

    Symptoms, Diseases and Diagnosis - WrongDiagnosis.com

    Example of logic algoritm when using Genova tests
    Genova Diagnostics - Anti-Aging Digest

    possible underlying causes and contributing factors
    GDX Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (CFS)

    Comprehensive Nutritional Assessment
    nutritional supplement program customized to individual requirements
    https://secure.customvite.com/cvite/default.asp

    A Canary's-Eye View — Introduction

    Enzymes & Methylation
    Nutri-West Articles: HOMOCYSTEINE REDUX vs MSM
    ----------------------------------------------
    One can order over internet many/most tests, if not directly available, send e-mail, ask for it.

    Welcome to Integrative Psychiatry Mental Health Testing and Treatment

    Also interpretation of tests and some follow up actions can be discussed over telephone:
    15 minutes $45
    30 minutes $75
    Telephone Consultation
    .
    .

    Use the A4M's directory to search for anti-aging physicians, clinics, spas and products.
    Anti-Aging Physicians, Clinics & Products - WorldHealth.net


    ====================
    Quote Originally Posted by Investmentbanker View Post
    Jan, where do I go to do this? If it is an imbalance will the test results suggest what I do to correct it? Thank you for your help.
    Please do not use full name of GD labs.
    Dr John in the past was objecting.
    He does not object to discussion on health topics that the cover.
    --------------------------------------------------------
    On e-mail request include your zip code and ask for 25 or 50 miles radius, they will send you a list of doctors that have accounts with them.
    --------------------------------------------------------

    Essential & Metabolic Fatty Acids Analysis (EMFA)

    http://www.genovadiagnostics.com/ind...&nav=doc&****47

    Sample Report:
    http://www.genovadiagnostics.com/fil...MFA_report.pdf

    Interpretation Guide;
    http://www.genovadiagnostics.com/fil...nterpGuide.pdf

    /
    ============================== ============================== ====
    Matrix journal

    Explanation of codes posted by HAN.
    have it with you always when in doctor's office.

    Jan's BloodTest April13/2007
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------

    244.9 ========== Unspecified acquired hypothyroidism
    250.0 ========== Diabetes mellitus without mention of complication
    253.2 ========== Panhypopituitarism
    255.5 ========== Other adrenal hypofunction
    257.0 ========== Testicular hyperfunction
    259.9 ========== Unspecified endocrine disorder
    272.0 ========== Pure hypercholesterolemia
    275.1 ========== Disorders of copper metabolism
    440.0 ========== Atherosclerosis
    600.0 ========== Hyperplasia of prostate
    611.1 ========== Hypertrophy of breast
    799.81 ========== Decreased libido

    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=116624451
    ============================== ====================

    http://www.icd9data.com/2007/Volume1/default.htm
    Unspecified acquired hypothyroidism ========== 244.9 ========== Unspecified acquired hypothyroidism
    Diabetes mellitus without mention of complication ========== 250,0 ========== http://www.icd9data.com/2007/Volume1.../250/250.0.htm
    Panhypopituitarism ========== 253.2 ========== http://www.icd9data.com/2007/Volume1.../253/253.2.htm
    Other adrenal hypofunction ========== 255.5 ========== http://www.icd9data.com/2007/Volume1.../255/255.5.htm
    Testicular hyperfunction ========== 257 ========== http://www.icd9data.com/2007/Volume1.../257/257.0.htm
    Unspecified endocrine disorder ========== 259.9 ========== http://www.icd9data.com/2007/Volume1.../259/259.9.htm
    Pure hypercholesterolemia ========== 272 ========== http://www.icd9data.com/2007/Volume1.../272/272.0.htm
    Disorders of copper metabolism ========== 275.1 ========== http://www.icd9data.com/2007/Volume1.../275/275.1.htm
    Atherosclerosis ========== 440 ========== http://www.icd9data.com/2007/Volume1...48/440/440.htm
    Hyperplasia of prostate ========== 600 ========== http://www.icd9data.com/2007/Volume1...08/600/600.htm
    Hypertrophy of breast ========== 611.1 ========== http://www.icd9data.com/2007/Volume1.../611/611.1.htm
    Decreased libido ========== 799.81 ========== http://www.icd9data.com/2007/Volume1...799/799.81.htm

    =======================
    When ordering HCG

    ICD-9 608.3 Atrophy of testis
    Of note, it is also cleared for treatment of secondary hypogonadism.
    http://musc lechatroom.com/forum/showpost.php?p=78139&postcount =222
    =========================

  20. Hardasnails notes of dr Marianco's posts.
    first posted here:
    Avoiding excess conversion of testosterone into estradiol during testosterone treatme
    .
    .
    Attached Files Attached Files

  21. Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    Hardasnails notes of dr Marianco's posts.
    first posted here:
    Avoiding excess conversion of testosterone into estradiol during testosterone treatme
    .
    .
    This should be a sticky !!

  22. The Durk Pearson & Sandy Shaw® Life Extension News July 2004

    Excess amounts of prolactin could also be a hazard because prolactin is known to play a major role in the growth of certain tissues (breast, prostate4).


    ---------------------------------------------------------
    June 1999 Le Magazine: In The News: Elevated Prolactin Linked To Breast Cancer




    LE Magazine June 1999
    Late-breaking brief news items to life extensionists, as well as anyone interested in living a longer healthier life.

    In The News


    Elevated Prolactin Linked
    To Breast Cancer


    In last month's issue of Life Extension magazine, we repeated our recommendation that prostate cancer patients should have there prolactin blood levels checked, as excess amounts of this hormone can promote prostate cancer cell proliferation and prevent successful treatment.

    A new study indicates that high levels of prolactin predispose healthy women to an increased risk of breast cancer. Prolactin is produced by the pituitary gland and, along with other hormones, stimulates the growth of the mammary glands and the production of milk after childbirth.

    Postmenopausal women who had blood prolactin levels in the upper 25% of the reference range had about twice the risk of breast cancer compared with those in the lower 25% of the distribution, according to a report in the April 7th issue of the Journal of the National Cancer Institute.

    The size of this association is similar to that observed between breast cancer and estrogen levels, report Dr. Susan E. Hankinson of Harvard Medical School in Boston, Massachusetts, and colleagues. The study included 306 women who were healthy at the time blood samples were obtained, but went on to develop cancer. Those women were compared with 448 healthy women who did not develop cancer. This new analysis is part of the ongoing Nurses' Health Study, the largest ongoing study of women's health in human history.

    There are similarities to breast and prostate cancer cells, and prolactin seems to be a common growth factor in these two cancers. Based on the new report showing that women with high levels of prolactin have twice the risk of breast cancer, it would appear prudent for healthy women to lower their prolactin levels. Here are the standard laboratory reference ranges for blood prolactin levels:

    Female
    - Non-pregnant 2.8 to 29.2 ng/ml
    - Pregnant 9.7 to 208.5 ng/ml
    - Postmenopausal 1.8 to 20.3 ng/ml

    Male
    - 2.1 to 17.7 ng/ml

    Evidently, prolactin levels have a very wide range that conventional doctors would consider "normal." The problem is that few doctors are aware of the dangers of elevated prolactin, and if their healthy patients are in the high "normal" range, they would do nothing to treat this condition. A "normal" range often means a person has a "normal" risk for contracting a disease. Since members of The Life Extension Foundation don't want to have "normal" risk factors, here are some guidelines for those to follow who care about optimal health:

    Healthy Female
    - Non-pregnant - Prolactin level no higher than 7.3 ng/ml
    - Postmenopausal - Prolactin level no higher than 5.0 ng/ml

    Female - Breast Cancer Patient
    - Prolactin level no higher than 1.8


    Male - Prostate Cancer Patient
    - Prolactin level no higher than 2.0
    There are three FDA-approved drugs that suppress prolactin secretion. If a blood test reveals prolactin levels are elevated, ask your doctor to prescribe one of the following drugs:

    - Bromocriptine (2.5 mg one or more times a day)
    - Pergolide (.25 mg to .50 mg twice a day)
    - Dostinex (.5 mg twice a week)

    Check prolactin levels again in 30 days to make sure the drug you choose is suppressing prolactin release from the pituitary gland into the blood.

    Dostinex is the newest and cleanest drug to use. Dostinex has fewer side effects than the older drugs, is more effective in suppressing prolactin than the older drugs, and requires only twice a week dosing. It should be noted that Durk Pearson and Sandy Shaw recommended bromocriptine as a prolactin suppressing agent back in 1982, and the FDA spent millions of taxpayer dollars keeping Americans from accessing this drug for the purpose of disease prevention. Since 1982, about 700,000 American women have died of breast cancer.
    ============================== ============================== =======
    ============================== ============================== =======
    Posted by cpeil2
    Lab Results In, Need Help

    More info: pergolide has been voluntarily withdrawn from the market.


    Also re: Dostinex - the risk of valve disease is considerably lower in those taking to lower prolactin because the typical dose is much lower.
    ============================== ==

    Yes, good news. The dose for pituitary problems is so much lower than for Parkinson's that the risk of heart problems appears negligible.


    Bromocriptine - There have been isolated reports of valve disease after long-term use for Parkinson's. Again, though, it appears that the risk is dose-related

  23. according to shippens chart my free t was 80 or 275ish...what would that be...good, bad???

    phats

  24. Quote Originally Posted by phatkid77 View Post
    according to shippens chart my free t was 80 or 275ish...what would that be...good, bad???

    phats
    Post SHBG, specify units
    Post TotalT, specify units

  25. shbg 28nmol
    total t-11.4 nmol/L
  •   

      
     

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