My blood results..

[christopher36]

Male, 5'8 160lbs., age 37. I am very active in fighting sports, still have a very hard time losing slight belly fat. As far as libido goes, its a 3 on a scale 1 to 10. I take very good care of myself dietwise and supplements. No prohormone use ever but previous HRT/TRT but had to stop due to severe panic attacks after a few months. These are my results 1 year off TRT.

Test,Total/FREE - 336ng/dL - range 260-1000
Test, %,FREE -1.2 - Range 1.00% - 2.70%
Test,FREE -38.8 pg/mL - range 50-210
Estradiol <32 pg/mL - range <54

I never had any anxiety/panic ever so it was def the TRT treatment. I haven't had any since stopping either, so is there any other way? Thank you.

 

[DT5]

if u need a new inexpensive clinic, PM me

 

[christopher36]

Perhaps your dosage needs to be adjusted. It's tricky. I have a bud who's had great results. He had good libido activity anyway, but the TRT took him to a new level in the gym. More stamina, reps, weight, and remarkable muscle gain as a result. I watched his progress and was amazed.

My dosage was 50mg. Test Eth. injected twice weekly (Total 100mg week). Hcg at 250iu twice a week. No anti estro anything. My estrogen levels went to 44 and my test to 860 with free test at over 120. But after starting Hcg the problems really started and the heart palps were brutal.
Like I said I never had those problems before. I had full cardiac and bloodwork done during that time and after, all results were fine.
I still train very hard and my muscles are very good, just no libido and increased belly fat that just won't go.

 

[Gutterpump]

hCG was the culprit. I think a lot of people need AI's while on it. Plus it doesn't just boost test, it boosts many other hormones as well.

I wouldn't personally ever do trt + hcg without an AI on hand.

hCG pisses me off though...but it's necessary to keep the boys working. Gives me pretty bad bacne. I've heard of it causing anxiety for others too. It could be from a raise in DHEA and E2. An AI and progesterone could possibly help this from what I've read.

 

[The Matrix]

hCG was the culprit. I think a lot of people need AI's while on it. Plus it doesn't just boost test, it boosts many other hormones as well.

I wouldn't personally ever do trt + hcg without an AI on hand.

hCG pisses me off though...but it's necessary to keep the boys working. Gives me pretty bad bacne. I've heard of it causing anxiety for others too. It could be from a raise in DHEA and E2. An AI and progesterone could possibly help this from what I've read.

Majority of people do not need aI if they are properly tuned up and estrogen metabolism is working optimally.

 

[christopher36]

hCG was the culprit. I think a lot of people need AI's while on it. Plus it doesn't just boost test, it boosts many other hormones as well.

I wouldn't personally ever do trt + hcg without an AI on hand.

hCG pisses me off though...but it's necessary to keep the boys working. Gives me pretty bad bacne. I've heard of it causing anxiety for others too. It could be from a raise in DHEA and E2. An AI and progesterone could possibly help this from what I've read.

I agree. Hcg def was a big cause. Everytime I used it. But the panic attack came on sudden. It hit me real hard. I will stick to my life wo TRT. I feel good, started using maca and LJ100 and it seems to help. Also ZMA at night with extra zinc daily. Would like my estro a little lower and rid this little extra fat on my abs.

 

[colkurtz_spf]

hCG was the culprit. I think a lot of people need AI's while on it. Plus it doesn't just boost test, it boosts many other hormones as well.

I wouldn't personally ever do trt + hcg without an AI on hand.

hCG pisses me off though...but it's necessary to keep the boys working. Gives me pretty bad bacne. I've heard of it causing anxiety for others too. It could be from a raise in DHEA and E2. An AI and progesterone could possibly help this from what I've read.

I've read that HCG lowers DHEA. I've been taking DHEA since I started three years ago. It's been a great mood elevator for me, so I don't know about the depression claim. I think success depends on finding the right dose, and your testicles ability to crank out testosterone. The better they work the more you'll get from it. HCG stimulates all hormone production including progesterone. My doctor prescribed progesterone for about a year. When I asked him why he said it would make the HCG more effective. I didn't feel any difference and discontinued it.

For what it's worth, I've done traditional testosterone therapy, HCG monotherapy and Dr. Chrisler's protocol (transdermal/HCG). HCG monotherapy has given my the best results with the most natural feel.

 

[Gutterpump]

I've read that hCG stimulates the adrenals and other hormone secretions, slightly elevates thyroid hormones, etc.

Where did you read that it lowers dhea? I've read that initiating hCG treatment causes a big spike in dhea levels through stimulating the adrenals. I think it can cause anxiety in people with adrenal fatigue, or people who are sensitive. I know personally hCG didn't have a big effect on me until I started to treat my adrenals as well (isocort, and then hydrocortisone).

Personally I wish I didn't have to take hCG to keep the boys running...I'm getting too many sides from it. It's caused me to have to go on accutane, after trying everything else. I know the only other thing that used to give me bacne was dhea supplementation.

 

[Gutterpump]

Majority of people do not need aI if they are properly tuned up and estrogen metabolism is working optimally.

Hopefully this will be the case. Right now I can't live without an AI.

 

[colkurtz_spf]

I've read that hCG stimulates the adrenals and other hormone secretions, slightly elevates thyroid hormones, etc.

Where did you read that it lowers dhea? I've read that initiating hCG treatment causes a big spike in dhea levels through stimulating the adrenals. I think it can cause anxiety in people with adrenal fatigue, or people who are sensitive. I know personally hCG didn't have a big effect on me until I started to treat my adrenals as well (isocort, and then hydrocortisone).

Personally I wish I didn't have to take hCG to keep the boys running...I'm getting too many sides from it. It's caused me to have to go on accutane, after trying everything else. I know the only other thing that used to give me bacne was dhea supplementation.

I'm not familiar with the other meds you take. My problem is strictly testosterone related, I can tell you I've had extensive blood work these past three years. - at least four draws per year - two comprehensive panels. I've experienced no spike in thyroid hormones, and have had to supplement with DHEA . I had the biggest drop in DHEA during the beginning of therapy.

If you're taking HCG to keep "the boys working" then my experience is irrelevant. You're in a different ballpark. The cosmetic benefits of HCG may not be worth the adverse reactions you're experiencing.

 

[Gutterpump]

I was on hCG mono for a while, but recently lowered my dose and started test-e again so that I don't have to take as much hCG..too many sides from it. I'm taking hCG to maintain fertility, aiming for kids in a few yrs. But yeah I was previously on hCG mono for a long time.

I'm hearing so many mixed stories about hCG mono and it raising other hormones other than test. I've always read that it elevates many other hormones including DHEA and PREG. But then I've read a coupel people on this board supplement with DHEA while on hCG. So I'm really confused. I'll have to dig up some studies again, but it's strange how it effects people differently where it comes to elevated hormone levels across the board.

 

[colkurtz_spf]

I was on hCG mono for a while, but recently lowered my dose and started test-e again so that I don't have to take as much hCG..too many sides from it. I'm taking hCG to maintain fertility, aiming for kids in a few yrs. But yeah I was previously on hCG mono for a long time.

I'm hearing so many mixed stories about hCG mono and it raising other hormones other than test. I've always read that it elevates many other hormones including DHEA and PREG. But then I've read a coupel people on this board supplement with DHEA while on hCG. So I'm really confused. I'll have to dig up some studies again, but it's strange how it effects people differently where it comes to elevated hormone levels across the board.

It's not complicated. Your testicles produce a cascade of hormones and HCG triggers that cascade. If dosed properly it produces natural rhythm. I was lucky enough to find the right doctor to titrate my dose. I think that's the key.

 

[Gutterpump]

It is more complicated than you think with hCG though.

There are LH receptors throughout the body. LH triggers and activates more than just your testes. This can be a problem for people on hCG. You can't select which LH receptors become stimulated more over others. Yes, the testicles have LH receptors, but there are many other sites in the body which have them, including areas of the brain. It can also stimulate the release of ACTH for example.

 

[colkurtz_spf]

It is more complicated than you think with hCG though.

There are LH receptors throughout the body. LH triggers and activates more than just your testes. This can be a problem for people on hCG. You can't select which LH receptors become stimulated more over others. Yes, the testicles have LH receptors, but there are many other sites in the body which have them, including areas of the brain. It can also stimulate the release of ACTH for example.

As I said, I was lucky enough to find the right doctor. In my opinion this therapy shouldn't be second guessed. Still, I maintain that if LH is the problem HCG is the answer. The question is how much and when. At some time in your life I assume your hypothalamus secreted an amount that was in harmony with your body and the LH receptors in it. Most secondary people respond well to this therapy. It's possible that your problem is more complex.

 

[Gutterpump]

Yeah I think so, it would explain why hCG alone gives me more side effects than test alone. Then again, DHEA supplementation also causes more sides with me than test does. Perhaps when adrenals, thyroid and gut are properly balanced, then hCG + hMG might be a better option, especially while trying to remain fertile. I just can't get past the androgenic sides of hCG which seem so much worse than test-e alone (even with test at higher doses).

 

[The Matrix]

I admire you guys who make the effort to educate yourselves about the available hormone replacement therapies. Truly. It's work!

It also works wonders for females once the Dr understands how to properly manipulate the hormones. I enjoy talking to the people at ZRT because they are so pleasant. I usally ask there opionons on what protocol I tend to take. When they respond to me "WOW you really know your stuff I would have never thought of that" as medical professionals we learn alot from each other because one has to have a very open mind when dealing with complex medical issues that slip through the cracks of modern medicine. Guys HRT is a breeze compared to females I will say that. One has to look at hormone as intricate dance to where everything has be synchronized just perfect inorder to function as one. if the thyroid/adrenal is out it upsets the whole balance of other hormones and vice versa. It has taken years to learn how to understand how intricate the hormone systems are. Each day we are learnning something new as long as we keep our minds open to the possibities.