Recent development in the war... on drugs

spatch

spatch

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DARE: Drug Abuse Resistance Education or Trojan Horse?



(snickers)... (goolish laugh) HEHEHE...


Theres your "War on drugs" folks. I know meth use amongst kids and what not are horrible things but tell me the sickest portion of your brain doesnt find that article funny?

While I dont 100% agree with the whole new world order thing, the whole fact that DARE is increasing kids to do drugs is what i'm getting at here.

Reminds me of the Jeoparty on saturday night live where someone acually LOST money for charity.
 
Cuffs

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Well, this deal was written ten years ago. Also, statistics is just a game and can be manipulated to support a writer's view. I seriously doubt there is any factual basis that DARE has been the cause to get kids to do drugs. That is a whole separate issue that I believe, for the most part, starts at home.
 

PumpingIron

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that article was iffy at best, IMHO.

Just some student trying to pawn off his own propaganda.

DARE is a great program, I definately agree on teaching kids to say no to drugs at a young age.

Don't you?
 
spatch

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My professor talked about how much a joke DARE is today, which gave me the idea to look it up.
 
BigVrunga

BigVrunga

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DARE is a joke. Until society can embrace the fact that drug use has and always will be a part of human culture, and teach parents to be responsible for their children, and people to be accountable for themselves, there will always be a problem. The problem is with people who abuse themselves with drugs. The government makes no differentiation between a responsible drug user and a self depricating junkie. And in that process, they've spawned a whole new era of drug-related crime.

Just take a look at alcholol prohibition back in the 20's and 30's - all it lead to was a massive increase in organized crime, and sharp increase in alcohol consumption while at the same time decreasing the safety and quality of the product.

Alcohol Prohibition Was A Failure
 

PumpingIron

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BV, I agree that drugs will always be around. Even if it was possible to completely rid the world of drugs, people would find other ways of getting high and change thier mind set. Remember when we were younger and we would spin ourselves around to get dizzy? I mean its human nature.

I just think that education on all levels, all aspects of drugs are good. Not using them is probably the only thing you can teach. How would you propose to teach parents to be responsible? I agree that parents in today's world don't watch thier kids enough and thats a huge problem, but how are you going to educate those parents, it's impossible. DARE isn't going to fix the problem, but I do think that it is atleast getting the idea of not using into kids heads, which is a start...
 
BigVrunga

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I just think that education on all levels, all aspects of drugs are good. Not using them is probably the only thing you can teach. How would you propose to teach parents to be responsible? I agree that parents in today's world don't watch thier kids enough and thats a huge problem, but how are you going to educate those parents, it's impossible. DARE isn't going to fix the problem, but I do think that it is atleast getting the idea of not using into kids heads, which is a start...
Yeah, its a really tough problem to wrap your head around, and honestly I think it requires a cultural shift, something that would be much harder than a change in policy.

Someone would have to come up with a plan that could be implemented over 2-3 generations, IMO. Slowly changing the perspective of a nation that for decades has been told 'drugs are bad' (Mr.Mackey Voice:))

You're right, I think telling kids to 'Just Say No' is probably the best thing they can do right now, but its just a tiny band-aid over a problem that continues to worsen.

When it comes down to it, someday they're going to have to figure out a way to tell the truth, and let people make their own decisions as to what they put into themselves.

Because right now there is no truth - just the warped viewpoint of some that think chemicals are evil, and the astinine viewpoint of others that believe all drugs are safe to use in excess because weed didnt turn them into crazy killer rapists.

Moderation and responsibility - but sometimes I think those are rare genetic traits more than values that can actually be taught. :think:
 
RenegadeRows

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Whether or not DARE inspires kids to use drugs or to say know, I beleive drugs are so common place now adays that the knowledge and education DARE offers is very important.

I remember in DARE, when I was in 5th grade, the police officer burned a tablet that smelled like marijuana. How is finding out what marijuana smells like important in "Just Saying No"? It's not, but it's educational and the knowledge could prove useful when the kids get to high school.
 
spatch

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Whether or not DARE inspires kids to use drugs or to say know, I beleive drugs are so common place now adays that the knowledge and education DARE offers is very important.

I remember in DARE, when I was in 5th grade, the police officer burned a tablet that smelled like marijuana. How is finding out what marijuana smells like important in "Just Saying No"? It's not, but it's educational and the knowledge could prove useful when the kids get to high school.
why didnt he just use the real stuff?.... :rofl:
 

PumpingIron

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weird little offshoot to this convo...when I was in 5th grade, during DARE class, I was being a little jerk and talking during the lecture. The officer literally grabbed me by the back of my neck and dragged me out of class. Yelled at me in the hallway, while still holding onto the back of my neck and then told me to goto the principals office.

Nothing became of it. It was a good cop, and my family knew his so my rents didn't do much more then talk to the principal about it, plus I didn't get into any trouble...


But back to wht BV and Renegade said you're both right. Its something that has to be addressed over a long period of time and something that has always been looking to take care of things now, right this minute, not look at the grand scheme of things and how culture will be down the road 10-20 years from now. And this is how our country works, always has...
 
RenegadeRows

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I'd rather know the truth about drugs, then find out what something like LSD does 2 hours into the trip :twisted:
 
Skyblue

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If kids want to take drugs, then DARE isnt going to do ****. Its all personal choices. I always research a substance and make sure I know a lot about it before i'll purchase it and try it.

Also, couldnt the rise in drug use be linked to something like... A lot of disposable income, parents not being around, and pop culture??? I mean cmon, the only reason I buy weed is because I have the money to do so. If i didnt have the money, or the time, I wouldnt do drugs. Jeez.

Oh, and ive taken acid too. The trips arent really bad? And taking LSD one time will not kill you, and the chance of permanent damage from taking it once is prettttttttty small.
 
Jayhawkk

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Personal experiences do not yeild a total story...

I did a lot of **** growing up that could of killed me but neither killed me nor landed me in jail. Would I be a better parent to realize that those choices could of ruined mine or another life and teach and protect my kids from making those choices or by just letting them make mistakes?

Whatever happened to learning from mistakes. It doesn't mean you have to learn from only your own. I can watch a person burm themselves on a stove and learn just as well and not have to burn my damn self in the process.

1. Teach
2. Protect
3. Make sure you're a role model for your children.
4. Stay involved.

Even being a good parent will still present a chance to have a child that tries drugs. It's just important to teach them and move on. I'm not a parent that lets my kids have sex in the house, drink in the house or do drugs in the house because I can monitor it. As soon as you try to pull the chains in they will just go outside the house.

Kids are kids and as such will look at the world trhough their point of view which is no where near fully aware of consequences. If they did and could see things properly then the death penalty and other laws would not be set up the way they were.

I do believe that moderation is key but this society is no where near the ability to do this in any form or function.
 
BigVrunga

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Oh, and ive taken acid too. The trips arent really bad? And taking LSD one time will not kill you, and the chance of permanent damage from taking it once is prettttttttty small.
There really arent any physical hazards from moderate LSD use, but the damage its abuse can cause to the mind is very real.

BV
 
spatch

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There really arent any physical hazards from moderate LSD use, but the damage its abuse can cause to the mind is very real.

BV
As they say,...

"Gettin' chased around the car by some midgets in the parking lot, IM ON ACID!"
 
Skyblue

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When you say abuse sir what exactly do you mean? I honestly don't think ive suffered any mental damage from the few times ive used it.

Would you say taking it a few times a year is an acceptable health risk?
 
thesinner

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that article was iffy at best, IMHO.

Just some student trying to pawn off his own propaganda.

DARE is a great program, I definately agree on teaching kids to say no to drugs at a young age.

Don't you?
Have you ever been a part of D.A.R.E? When I was in grade school I had to take DARE classes. The class informed me of different drugs out there (that I probably would have never heard of) and the recreational effects said drugs caused. They never pointed out the nasty sides of such drugs, or how easy and dangerous it is to overdose on them. Essentially, the mentality of my DARE experience was, "Doing _____ is great, it makes you feel all euphoric and amazing, but don't do it because drugs are bad."


The concept of teaching kids to say no to drugs at a young age is a great idea, but DARE is not a great way of going about it.
 
Skyblue

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Well, until I tried it myself, I had always assumed that the first time I tried ecstasy I would die, the first time I took acid I would go insane, the first time I did coke I would get addicted, and the first time I smoked pot I would turn into a retard.

But actually all those myths are wrong thus far
 
Jayhawkk

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Well, until I tried it myself, I had always assumed that the first time I tried ecstasy I would die, the first time I took acid I would go insane, the first time I did coke I would get addicted, and the first time I smoked pot I would turn into a retard.
So you went into it believing this and still went ahead with it? It would be one thing to say you were led to believe this but on your experience it didn't happen.

I did the D.A.R.E thing when i was a kid and also did the Scared Straight program when I was in high school up in Chicago. Both , to me, did what they were set out to do and nothing else. Just because you got a bad set of instructions in your experience doesn't make the whole program bunk...It's like saying you had a bad experience and a poor math teacher so all math is just bull****.
 
BigVrunga

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When you say abuse sir what exactly do you mean? I honestly don't think ive suffered any mental damage from the few times ive used it.
Abuse is a relative term that applies to the individual. For instance, I have a friend that smokes pot 3x day every day and has since he was 15-16 years old. He also has 2 Masters degrees and is one of the nicest guys you'll ever meet. For most other people, that level of cannabis intake would constitute abuse. For him its just the way he works - maybe his brain functions better on it, who knows. :)

Most every urban myth about LSD (It stays in your spine forever, you'll think you're a glass of orange juice, it was developed by the CIA for mind control, etc) are absolutley false. Compared to its active dosage, LSD is actually a very safe compound requiring more than 600x its threshold dose to reach LD-50. In strict terms of physical safety, most prescription, OTC, and legal recreational drugs carry far greater risk than LSD. That being said, you would probably suffer some pretty severe mental issues if you ingested 300+ hits of LSD...something on that level could take years to integrate, if it didnt cause a psychotic break or have you suffering HPPD symptoms down the road.

IMO, the danger in an LSD experience, or any experience that alters perception on that level, is the failure to respect the compound and use it in the proper set and setting. Psychedelic drugs have been used by humans since the dawn of mankind, mostly revered as ritualistic sacraments that produce spiritual visions,etc. They generally werent used casually and there was normally and elder 'spirit guide' who was present to help guide the person through the experience, etc.

This is not saying that the casual user should start worshipping Crom in order use these compounds, but understand that the experience can be a powerful/overwhelming one and ensure you are in trusted and safe company, in a comfortable environment, NOT DRIVING, etc.

Would you say taking it a few times a year is an acceptable health risk?
Not many recreational drugs, legal or illegal, or going to have any negative physical repurcussions using them a couple times a year. You're biggest risk in this regard is that you're breaking the law, as even posession of one dose of a compound like LSD, Psilocybin mushrooms,Ecstacy etc constitutes a felony in most states.

The best advice here is to know the risks, know your body, and know your mind. Educate yourself as much as possible on the compounds you put into your body - recreational or otherwise.

BV
 
BigVrunga

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I did the D.A.R.E thing when i was a kid and also did the Scared Straight program when I was in high school up in Chicago. Both , to me, did what they were set out to do and nothing else. Just because you got a bad set of instructions in your experience doesn't make the whole program bunk...It's like saying you had a bad experience and a poor math teacher so all math is just bull****.
I agree - I went through the DARE program when I was a kid as well, and it did what it was supposed to do. All of the cops who came to my school were very sincere when delivering their message.

Kids shouldnt be using any kind of compound that effects nerochemistry while their brains are still developing. Because teenagers in general are so curious/stubborn/etc 'Just Say No' isnt a necessarily a bad message.

The bad part is, is that once a kid doesnt say no, he realizes much of the information taught about drugs in school is false, and with no guidance ends up going overboard.
 
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ITHURTZ

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Every time I hear or see those drug/truth adds it makes me want to go hit some up. In my mind if there saying to kids, its bad dont touch it kids will wonder why its bad and test it out for themselves just to see what these ads are talking about. I think more about drugs because I hear about it on tv, when tv's off I rarley is ever think about it
 
Jayhawkk

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The bad part is, is that once a kid doesnt say no, he realizes much of the information tought about drugs in school is false, and with no guidance ends up going overboard.
I agree...Well, I actually agree with everything you wrote but this stood out to me :)
 
Skyblue

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So you went into it believing this and still went ahead with it? It would be one thing to say you were led to believe this but on your experience it didn't happen.
Well i used to say no to everything - then i saw my buddy smoking it (35 act, 4.5/4.0 gpa) smoking and i was like.. huh its not that bad ill try it)
 

PumpingIron

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Wow, its interesting to see age disparities in the parties arguing each side of this issue. Well not huge disparities, but it is noticible.

As far as these different programs go, yes, I have been part of DARE and yes they do give you a basis of knowledge of all these drugs. But are you proposing that they teach through ignorance? That they don't tell you what the drugs are and what they will do and also why you shouldn't do them?

Ignorance is never a good thing.
 
Skyblue

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As long as I can get my fix I mean seriously. Ive talked to a few girls I know who are big into Snowball, which is like an Illinois High school anti-drug thing... and when I ask what are the negative effects of certain drugs all they tell me is "Its bad for you dont do it" or "drugs are bad"

They can never provide me with goddamn facts. Thats what I hate about some people. I know drugs have negative side effects in a lot of cases, but people cant point them out - all theyve been taught is that drugs are 'bad'
 
Jayhawkk

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My reasoning is that it is illegal regardless of anything else and do what you think you can handle...

If you want to smoke pot, chase the dragon :p or whatever then go ahead but don't act like a victim and cry if you get busted if your life gets screwed because of it. Until things change it is illegal and by all means protest or get laws changed but in the mean time...Still illegal.

Same goes for those protesting seatbelt use and helmets for motorcycles or anything else that may be mandatory. You have to weight the circumstances with the choices, just like everything else in life.

For example: If there was a glass of kool-aid(and I mean some kick ASS kool-aid with just the right amount of sugar in it) and I was told by the feds that if I drank this kool-aid I would serve 2 years in prison. I'd learn to like Tea. T

I can see the arguments over drugs, I really can. BV makes one hell of a case. The final point is that is the high worth possibly throwing your life away because while dying, permanent mental or physical damage may be small or even misrepresented you can still spend time in jail/prison. If you're fine with that risk then that is your decision just don't fall back on it should of been legal etc.
 
Skyblue

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Yea you make a damn good point sir. Im fine with the consequences i take, and im not crying about it. I understand the risks and there are some things that I will break the law for, and certain things I will not. Im sure the same applies to most people too.
 

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