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    Quote Originally Posted by mustang0341 View Post
    Also your fact of mass shootings not being stopped by civilians.....i will find the story or an armed civilian in either Washington or Oregon who observed a man heading towards a shopping mall with a gun. He brandished his concealed weapon, confronted and shot at the man causing him to take cover and he took his own life. Most if not all the mass shooting suspects always take their own life at the first instance of resistance.
    The suspect had several magazines and plenty of ammo to kill alot of people. He was stopped by a "civilian." Before he killed ANYONE.
    But this wasn't mass shootings. You don't even know if he would have even shot anyone, he could have just been an armed robber who may never have used his weapon. It's all 'what if' conjecture.

    My fact was that of the mass shootings that HAVE happened, NONE ended with a civilian shooting the killer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glawry View Post
    Thank you for your civilized response.

    I partially agree with what you say. Laws definitely need to be reformed and on top of that they also need to be better enforced consistently across each state. Let's face it, yes there are states with tight guns laws but also with high gun crime, and a big part of that is the Laws are poorly being enforced. There are also states with tight gun laws with low gun crime, and vice versa. Hard to read too much into different state statistics as it's quite easy to carry a gun from a state to state, it's not like crossing the mexican border! Your states need to 'Unite' to have some common ground to make your country a safer place. My country ain't perfect by any means and I'm not debating that or other things which can be fixed (the world will never be perfect!), this is purely discussing the gun control debate as gun homicides make up a very large portion of your overall homicides, more than any other type of homicide.

    Going back to the Empire State Building shooting, if 2 armed trained professional police officers can't even get it right with 9 innocent bystanders being shot, what would a civilian with a gun have made a difference?? I'm sure there are civilians that can shoot accurately but in general a trained professional police officer (or 2 in this case) SHOULD be able to put a lid on the situation better than any civilian with a gun could, do you agree??
    Our states shouldnt exactly have a need to unite...they should already be united under our United States Constitution and respect our Bill or Rights. Unfortunately not only do our states fail to follow the rules of our Republic, but our Federal Government has and is heavily breaking Constitutional Law daily.

    Our States have their own ability to have their own laws to an extent....people will never unite in this country, or anywhere, there are limits to uniting. Whats nice about this country is that having states is like having a bunch of little countries and should your local laws not be compatable with our needs you can move to another little country.

    Going back to the Empire State Building shooting as you are requesting, guessing what a difference a civilian would have made is a hard guess (saying that people did have arms.) It could have been one shot and kill, could have been many more innocent shot by accident, who knows. Its a bit more complex than just handing out guns to everyone and expecting a perfect system and expecting perfect results.

    I believe the 2nd Amendment bears a strong responsibility, we obviously need a well educated and trained society.

    Civilians really need to get together and be involved with their own militias (law enforcement, military are welcome should they want to volunteer,) create their own independent law enforcement, independent military reserves, and be engaged in responsible training. Maybe implement gun training in our public education system. Having a 2nd Amendment should be both a right and a mature responsibility.
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    I have a few questions I would like to put out there and would appreciate your view and response.

    * Do you think that background checks should have been expanded to include gun shows and online purchases? If not, why not? Point in argue is that without the background checks anyone including mentally ill people like Adam Lanza or James Holmes can easily attain guns this way. I'm not asking if you think this would make much of a difference but it really can't make things any worse.

    * Do you believe military style assault weapons and semi automatic guns should be banned and limits placed on high capacity ammunition magazines? If not, why not? There is really no need for this type of weaponry to be available to civilians. These type of weapons are the main choice for killers in mass shootings.

    There is always much to debate but I would specifically like your honest views on the above mentioned.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ax1 View Post
    Our states shouldnt exactly have a need to unite...they should already be united under our United States Constitution and respect our Bill or Rights. Unfortunately not only do our states fail to follow the rules of our Republic, but our Federal Government has and is heavily breaking Constitutional Law daily.

    Our States have their own ability to have their own laws to an extent....people will never unite in this country, or anywhere, there are limits to uniting. Whats nice about this country is that having states is like having a bunch of little countries and should your local laws not be compatable with our needs you can move to another little country.

    Going back to the Empire State Building shooting as you are requesting, guessing what a difference a civilian would have made is a hard guess (saying that people did have arms.) It could have been one shot and kill, could have been many more innocent shot by accident, who knows. Its a bit more complex than just handing out guns to everyone and expecting a perfect system and expecting perfect results.

    I believe the 2nd Amendment bears a strong responsibility, we obviously need a well educated and trained society.

    Civilians really need to get together and be involved with their own militias (law enforcement, military are welcome should they want to volunteer,) create their own independent law enforcement, independent military reserves, and be engaged in responsible training. Maybe implement gun training in our public education system. Having a 2nd Amendment should be both a right and a mature responsibility.
    But you even said yourself that Laws need to be reformed, Laws need to change, Laws should change with the times. I agree with this. That's why I personally believe that your 300 year old Law (or right or whatever you want to call it), the 2nd Amendment, can and should change. I'm not going to get in a debate about your 2nd Amendment, it is what it is and I'm fighting a losing battle by trying to debate it on an american website with pro gun activists.

    What I would like you to answer is, do you agree that Laws made up some 300 odd years ago in a COMPLETELY different world can and should change based on today's society's needs?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glawry View Post
    I have a few questions I would like to put out there and would appreciate your view and response.

    * Do you think that background checks should have been expanded to include gun shows and online purchases? If not, why not? Point in argue is that without the background checks anyone including mentally ill people like Adam Lanza or James Holmes can easily attain guns this way. I'm not asking if you think this would make much of a difference but it really can't make things any worse.

    * Do you believe military style assault weapons and semi automatic guns should be banned and limits placed on high capacity ammunition magazines? If not, why not? There is really no need for this type of weaponry to be available to civilians. These type of weapons are the main choice for killers in mass shootings.

    There is always much to debate but I would specifically like your honest views on the above mentioned.
    Actually I dont, the reason why is that it will turn to registration of all firearms in the United States giving goverment leverage over society and the purpose of the 2nd Amendment. A registry will give goverment a heavy advantage when it comes to door to door gun confiscation. Im against a goverment surveillance system which the USA is turning to as technology advances.

    I believe people can buy whatever they want to buy. If they break the law put them to trial and throw them in prison, most people will use them responsibly. Why not have them? The 2nd Amendment was put there to protect against goverment tyranny or foreign invasion, what is a pistol or several shot gun going to do?

    Also, it comes in handy when it comes to riots in times the citizen can only depend on his or herself for protection such as the Koreans stuck at the LA riots who used assualt style weapons to defend themselves against violent rioter



    Limit on capacity ammunition? Carry another gun, or make your own magazine using a 3D printer, its easy and a small investment.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glawry View Post
    But you even said yourself that Laws need to be reformed, Laws need to change, Laws should change with the times. I agree with this. That's why I personally believe that your 300 year old Law (or right or whatever you want to call it), the 2nd Amendment, can and should change. I'm not going to get in a debate about your 2nd Amendment, it is what it is and I'm fighting a losing battle by trying to debate it on an american website with pro gun activists.

    What I would like you to answer is, do you agree that Laws made up some 300 odd years ago in a COMPLETELY different world can and should change based on today's society's needs?
    Our Bill of Rights is just something I like and want to protect, and to me it is as valid today as it was 300 years ago, and I can see being just as valid in another 300 years.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glawry View Post
    But you even said yourself that Laws need to be reformed, Laws need to change, Laws should change with the times. I agree with this. That's why I personally believe that your 300 year old Law (or right or whatever you want to call it), the 2nd Amendment, can and should change. I'm not going to get in a debate about your 2nd Amendment, it is what it is and I'm fighting a losing battle by trying to debate it on an american website with pro gun activists.

    What I would like you to answer is, do you agree that Laws made up some 300 odd years ago in a COMPLETELY different world can and should change based on today's society's needs?
    I dont think I really meant to say laws need to be reformed....Im more for restoration of our Constitution and Bill of Rights. Its many of the reforms that have been taking place that bother me...not all but many.

    Anyways hitting the sack have a good night (or day to you.)
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    Quote Originally Posted by ax1 View Post
    Actually I dont, the reason why is that it will turn to registration of all firearms in the United States giving goverment leverage over society and the purpose of the 2nd Amendment. A registry will give goverment a heavy advantage when it comes to door to door gun confiscation. Im against a goverment surveillance system which the USA is turning to as technology advances.

    I believe people can buy whatever they want to buy. If they break the law put them to trial and throw them in prison, most people will use them responsibly. Why not have them? The 2nd Amendment was put there to protect against goverment tyranny or foreign invasion, what is a pistol or several shot gun going to do?

    Also, it comes in handy when it comes to riots in times the citizen can only depend on his or herself for protection such as the Koreans stuck at the LA riots who used assualt style weapons to defend themselves against violent rioter

    Limit on capacity ammunition? Carry another gun, or make your own magazine using a 3D printer, its easy and a small investment.
    If you were invaded by a foreign country, you have one of the biggest army's in the world who are trained in battle to protect you. There seems to be many paranoid gun owners in america that will shout any ludicrous reason to keep their guns.

    As stated previously, your current Laws are not working and your suggestion to allow civilians to carry concealed guns is very flawed as evidenced by the Empire State Building shooting. There really is not much more to point out in this debate, I have made many valid points with facts and evidence. I will leave this to rest, for now.

    I'm glad this debate has at least become more civilized towards the latter stages. Has been quite an interesting debate.

    Til next time :-)
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    the problem with this country is that the special interest groups (like the NRA) are allowed to contribute to campaigns and to political parties/political action groups in unlimited amounts. and then the lobbyists decide on Washington and call the shots. until that changes (and it probably never will), nothing's gonna change.
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    Here's an idea, if you think guns are so evil why don't you move to a place that has them banned, like the UK? We all know the UK has a very low crime rate..oh wait. Oh well, there are no examples in history of a country passing gun control and then killing a bunch of it's citizens....oh wait there was that whole Nazi Germany thing, Soviet Russia, China and others, but don't worry no one wants to do that in America. Go back and watch your reality tv and eat your genetically modified cherrioes. Why would anyone need a 100 round magazine? Because criminals have them. No laws are going to stop criminals. You know what will happen if there is a magazine limit? It'll create an even bigger black market. Hell I wouldn't be surprised if these gun control laws across the country are creating more gang members.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DerickVonD View Post
    Here's an idea, if you think guns are so evil why don't you move to a place that has them banned, like the UK? We all know the UK has a very low crime rate..oh wait. Oh well, there are no examples in history of a country passing gun control and then killing a bunch of it's citizens....oh wait there was that whole Nazi Germany thing, Soviet Russia, China and others, but don't worry no one wants to do that in America. Go back and watch your reality tv and eat your genetically modified cherrioes. Why would anyone need a 100 round magazine? Because criminals have them. No laws are going to stop criminals. You know what will happen if there is a magazine limit? It'll create an even bigger black market. Hell I wouldn't be surprised if these gun control laws across the country are creating more gang members.
    I live in Australia mate, gun control HAS worked here and I love my country.

    I understand your country is faced with many differing factors though which makes things difficult. You can't say it won't work, no one has the magical answer, yet.

    There has been much debating in this thread already with all possible valid points raised from both sides so nothing else really needs to be said.

    Any further comments please go back and read the full thread first as everything has been covered off, several times.

    This thread = finished for now

    The issue = still ongoing
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    *descend on Washington
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glawry View Post
    As stated previously, your current Laws are not working and your suggestion to allow civilians to carry concealed guns is very flawed as evidenced by the Empire State Building shooting. There really is not much more to point out in this debate, I have made many valid points with facts and evidence. I will leave this to rest, for now.
    Your example for the Empire State Building shooting isnt an example. People arent given concealed carry permits in New York City, or even anywhere around New York City especially the souther tier of New York State. New York State has some of the toughest gun control laws in the country.

    Quote Originally Posted by bossman523 View Post
    the problem with this country is that the special interest groups (like the NRA) are allowed to contribute to campaigns and to political parties/political action groups in unlimited amounts. and then the lobbyists decide on Washington and call the shots. until that changes (and it probably never will), nothing's gonna change.
    Thats the problem with this country, all our politicians are bought out by special interests and corporations. Without money you stand no chance at high office.

    Keep in mind anti-gun lobby buys out politicians as well.

    Politicians take oath of office, abolishing the 2nd Amendment is a crime.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glawry View Post
    I live in Australia mate, gun control HAS worked here and I love my country.

    I understand your country is faced with many differing factors though which makes things difficult. You can't say it won't work, no one has the magical answer, yet.
    You can easily say it wont work, Mexico has some of the strictest gun control laws in the planet, yet have a far higher armed homicide rate than the USA.

    You cant necessarily say that if it worked in your country it will work in others. I still dont see how it did, with 5,000+ homicides a year in ratio to the population in the USA, and your crime rate the worst ratio in the world. Your country is extremely flawed (as is the rest of the world) and society there is weak if you went to war or your goverment became tyrannical. As one good example, 200,000 women a year use guns to prevent sexual assault in the USA, women in Australia are left defenseless. The UK is considered the crime capital of Europe.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glawry View Post
    But this wasn't mass shootings. You don't even know if he would have even shot anyone, he could have just been an armed robber who may never have used his weapon. It's all 'what if' conjecture.

    My fact was that of the mass shootings that HAVE happened, NONE ended with a civilian shooting the killer.
    My facts were a bit off, the shooter killed two people and when he saw the civilian with a gun he then took his own life. the civilian never shot at him just took aim. In fact this story kinds blows a whole in your "trained professional" post where you said that a civilian could have done more damage. The civilian took aim, saw people behind the shooter and decided "not to shoot" for fear of hitting them.

    Clackamas mall shooter faced man with concealed weapon | kgw.com Portland

    Quote Originally Posted by Glawry View Post
    I have a few questions I would like to put out there and would appreciate your view and response.

    1* Do you think that background checks should have been expanded to include gun shows and online purchases? If not, why not? Point in argue is that without the background checks anyone including mentally ill people like Adam Lanza or James Holmes can easily attain guns this way. I'm not asking if you think this would make much of a difference but it really can't make things any worse.

    2* Do you believe military style assault weapons and semi automatic guns should be banned and limits placed on high capacity ammunition magazines? If not, why not? There is really no need for this type of weaponry to be available to civilians. These type of weapons are the main choice for killers in mass shootings.

    There is always much to debate but I would specifically like your honest views on the above mentioned.
    I put numbers by your asterix and will answer them in kind...

    1) Background checks are already in place at gun shows and online purchases. The stats that the gov't spits out are made up. The numbers that they are skweing are regarding person to person ( not at a show ) sales for which there are state laws in place depending on the type of firearms being sold. The second part of that is "and-me-downs" from family members or guns being inherited. I have been to countless guns hows and have numerous friends who have all been to gun shows and purchased guns and we have "ALWAYS" had background checks done. The lies about needing more background checks are ridiculous......we need to better enforce those laws that are already on the books.

    ***adam lanza KILLED his mother and took HER guns which she purchased legally. No background check could have thwarted that.

    2)Banning military assault "style" or " looking" weapons is null and void. The militray versions as you well know are full auto and these are not so it is a mute point really. As for the banning of semi-auto weapons, I would just refer you to our "this threads" previous arguments about banning guns period. You simply can't for one as all it would do is take semi-autos out of the hands of law abiding citizens giving them what? Revolvers? Muzzle Loaders? Pump Shotguns? with which to defend themselves from criminals who will always have semi-autos. It is simply impossible to "ban all weapons" here as there are simply too many in the country to get rid of them all.

    Also we here in America have a huge dis-advantage that you don't have....a third world country attached to our southern border that all sorts of drugs and guns that come from it. That provides an endless supply to the criminals ( read, non-law abiding citizens ).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glawry View Post
    Sounds like y'all a bunch of gun toting hillbilly rednecks.

    USA should follow in the foot steps of Australia. I have been to Australia several times and have friends that live there and i can say firsthand how much safer it is there (BTW i have travelled the world and seen it all).

    No one carries guns there, there is no gun shops anywhere and very hard to get a hold of a gun. When the reforms were brought in, the government offered a buy-back scheme to subsidise people giving up their guns and this proved very successful. Obviously this doesnt take all the guns off the street but over the years 2 things happened. 1) anyone caught with a gun got sent to jail and gun confiscated obviously, and 2) the small number of guns that were floating around- how cheap do u think these were to buy on the black market? Quite expensive due to being very hard to get and for most criminals they just couldnt afford to buy one. Obviously this takes time for this to work, its not an overnight fix. And NO, other violent crime did not significantly rise in the country, just the number of guns deaths significantly reduced. As i said, i have been to Australia several times and can say firsthand how safe it is to live there.

    I still want to know when you BECAME Australian? When you started the thread you didn't live there...
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    Quote Originally Posted by ax1 View Post

    Your example for the Empire State Building shooting isnt an example. People arent given concealed carry permits in New York City, or even anywhere around New York City especially the souther tier of New York State. New York State has some of the toughest gun control laws in the country.

    Thats the problem with this country, all our politicians are bought out by special interests and corporations. Without money you stand no chance at high office.

    Keep in mind anti-gun lobby buys out politicians as well.

    You can easily say it wont work, Mexico has some of the strictest gun control laws in the planet, yet have a far higher homicide rate than the USA.

    You cant necessarily say that if it worked in your country (although I still dont see how it did, with 5,000+ homicides a year in ratio to the population in the USA, and your crime rate the worst ratio in the world) as your country is extremely flawed as well and society is weak if you went to war or your goverment became tyrannical.
    LMFAO, you are a real fcuking stupid dumb khunt. I actually thought your debating was getting more civilized but now you are just spewing more garbage. Your stupid comments are quite annoying.

    To cover off your lies in point-

    * The Empire State Building shooting IS a prime example, if police can't even safely handle the situation with guns then how would a civilian have been able to do any better then 2 trained professional police. A civilian shootout COULD and would likely have been much worse than police shooting. It's really not that hard to understand.

    * Mexico has strict Laws but they are not enforced at all so their Laws are useless. It's pretty much a third world country where drug cartels run the show. Poor comparison mate, this was covered earlier in the thread. You just brang yourself down several levels for such a stupid comparison.

    * Lastly, your ratios are way off. Our annual TOTAL homicides are around 250 with a population of just under 25 million. Your population is a bit more than 10 times our population so an equivalent ratio would be more like 2500 TOTAL homicides. Your countrys TOTAL homicides is 16,000 with firearm homicides making up 11,000. And wtf how on earth do we have the worst crime rate? ROFL we are one of the safest countries and much safer than your country, these facts have been covered off earlier in the thread.

    ** Also we don't live in fear of our government becoming tyrannical, that's just paranoia at it's finest. No worries in our country mate. And if we went to war that's what we have an ARMY for which billions of dollars are spent on every year (trillions in your country). We also have close Allys including UK and USA because our country supports your country in every stupid crusade like Iraq and Afghanistan.

    You've pretty much lost all credibility now ax1. Unless you can constructively debate or at least not spit out lies and rubbish then don't speak at all. I actually feel embarassed for you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glawry View Post
    Thank you for your civilized response.

    I partially agree with what you say. Laws definitely need to be reformed and on top of that they also need to be better enforced consistently across each state. Let's face it, yes there are states with tight guns laws but also with high gun crime, and a big part of that is the Laws are poorly being enforced. There are also states with tight gun laws with low gun crime, and vice versa. Hard to read too much into different state statistics as it's quite easy to carry a gun from a state to state, it's not like crossing the mexican border! Your states need to 'Unite' to have some common ground to make your country a safer place. My country ain't perfect by any means and I'm not debating that or other things which can be fixed (the world will never be perfect!), this is purely discussing the gun control debate as gun homicides make up a very large portion of your overall homicides, more than any other type of homicide.

    Going back to the Empire State Building shooting, if 2 armed trained professional police officers can't even get it right with 9 innocent bystanders being shot, what would a civilian with a gun have made a difference?? I'm sure there are civilians that can shoot accurately but in general a trained professional police officer (or 2 in this case) SHOULD be able to put a lid on the situation better than any civilian with a gun could, do you agree??
    Most cops are not overly proficient in shooting. They are more of the "spray and pray" type. Meaning that most of their shots will never hit the target. Most of their shots are cover fire to keep the perp pinned down. I've shot against some officers in competitions and was very surprised at how poor of shots some really are.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swanson52 View Post

    I still want to know when you BECAME Australian? When you started the thread you didn't live there...
    I clearly made up being american because I first wanted you to think the debate was from someone in your own country, as you discredit anyone from outside your country that tries to debate the matter. But in the end I just went with the truth.

    Is that ok with you son of swan?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glawry View Post
    I clearly made up being american because I first wanted you to think the debate was from someone in your own country, as you discredit anyone from outside your country that tries to debate the matter. But in the end I just went with the truth.

    Is that ok with you son of swan?
    I think you're completely full of shyt, and want to take a contrarian position while you pretend (now) that you're Australian.

    But whatever pegs your perkymeter; lying to anonymous people on the Internet is SUPER COOL!
    Don't worry, man, someday I'ma be nobody too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lukehayd View Post

    Most cops are not overly proficient in shooting. They are more of the "spray and pray" type. Meaning that most of their shots will never hit the target. Most of their shots are cover fire to keep the perp pinned down. I've shot against some officers in competitions and was very surprised at how poor of shots some really are.
    Pretty poor comparison mate. There are 10's of thousands of police in your country and you have shot against 'some officers'. You don't know most cops so you can't speak on behalf of most cops.

    That is all.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swanson52 View Post

    I think you're completely full of shyt, and want to take a contrarian position while you pretend (now) that you're Australian.

    But whatever pegs your perkymeter; lying to anonymous people on the Internet is SUPER COOL!
    Mate your lying to yourself everyday by thinking that the answer to americas gun problems is more guns. I'm proud to be Australian, it's a wonderful safe country so at the end of all this debating I don't lose any sleep because I live a safe life without fear of needing to protect myself.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glawry View Post
    Hahahaha this is gold-

    (remove ** from www as I can't post links)

    w*w*w.youtube.com/watch?v=9pOiOhxujsE

    w*w*w.youtube.com/watch?v=TYbY45rHj8w

    w*w*w.youtube.com/watch?v=mVuspKSjfgA
    :-)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glawry View Post

    * The Empire State Building shooting IS a prime example, if police can't even safely handle the situation with guns then how would a civilian have been able to do any better then 2 trained professional police. A civilian shootout COULD and would likely have been much worse than police shooting. It's really not that hard to understand.
    .
    How so likely? You can be so sure of that.

    Civilians kill and take out twice as many criminals as cops do, most of the time responsibly. We cant predict the outcome and base a law-abiding citizens right to be armed based on what ifs or rare incidents.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glawry View Post
    LMFAO, you are a real fcuking stupid dumb khunt. I actually thought your debating was getting more civilized but now you are just spewing more garbage. Your stupid comments are quite annoying.

    * Mexico has strict Laws but they are not enforced at all so their Laws are useless. It's pretty much a third world country where drug cartels run the show. Poor comparison mate, this was covered earlier in the thread. You just brang yourself down several levels for such a stupid comparison.
    They are enforced...its the citizens in Mexico that suffer.

    Look how Drug Laws are heavily enforced here in America and what a failure that has been. Criminals will get what they want by any means.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glawry View Post
    * Lastly, your ratios are way off. Our annual TOTAL homicides are around 250 with a population of just under 25 million. Your population is a bit more than 10 times our population so an equivalent ratio would be more like 2500 TOTAL homicides. Your countrys TOTAL homicides is 16,000 with firearm homicides making up 11,000. And wtf how on earth do we have the worst crime rate? ROFL we are one of the safest countries and much safer than your country, these facts have been covered off earlier in the thread.
    The number of homicides I had in Australia was some 350, not 250. We have 14 times the population of Australia. 5,000+ homicides a year. Your getting stuck on petty shyt now.

    Population Australia 22.3 million
    Population USA 313.9 million

    Homicides in Australia provided by the Australian Government 354 here is the source
    http://www.aic.gov.au/documents/0/B/...%7Dfacts11.pdf

    Quote Originally Posted by Glawry View Post
    ** Also we don't live in fear of our government becoming tyrannical, that's just paranoia at it's finest. No worries in our country mate. And if we went to war that's what we have an ARMY for which billions of dollars are spent on every year (trillions in your country). We also have close Allys including UK and USA because our country supports your country in every stupid crusade like Iraq and Afghanistan.

    You've pretty much lost all credibility now ax1. Unless you can constructively debate or at least not spit out lies and rubbish then don't speak at all. I actually feel embarassed for you.
    Its naive to think your goverment will never become tyrannical, its historically impossible. You sound like the Germans would react when they were warned about Hitler. Remember, Germany was a democracy, you cant depend on your people to make the right decisions either.

    Your army is weak and useless. You cant depend on the UK and USA to be there for you to save yourselfs, there is no guarantee we could win a war against Russia or China and even if we did we may be too occupied to worry about your country. Allies do get taken in times of war. Losing the war is possible, you may as well come out with a fight. You should see what the Russians did the the Germans with their mass rape after they stepped foot in Germany. Australia would be seen a easy bate especially how weak your society is and how defenseless you all are.

    Anyways, good luck with that.

    I know countries such as China promote gun control as they know infiltrating America is like trying to jump the the blades of a lawn mower.
    나는 2000년 10월 매들린 올브라이트 전 미 국무장관 매들린 사랑, 그 중 한 뜨거운 젠장!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glawry View Post
    Pretty poor comparison mate. There are 10's of thousands of police in your country and you have shot against 'some officers'. You don't know most cops so you can't speak on behalf of most cops.

    That is all.
    It doesnt matter even if cops are the best shooters on the planet, the fact is they dont arrive to a crime until after it happens.

    The best cops are the people since it is our only real chance to defend ourselfs, something the women in Australia are deprived of that right with your mass crimes, robberies, sexual assaults, rapes. You live in the most criminal country on the planet.
    나는 2000년 10월 매들린 올브라이트 전 미 국무장관 매들린 사랑, 그 중 한 뜨거운 젠장!
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    Quote Originally Posted by ax1 View Post
    The number of homicides I had in Australia was some 350, not 250. We have 14 times the population of Australia. 5,000+ homicides a year. Your getting stuck on petty shyt now.

    Population Australia 22.3 million
    Population USA 313.9 million

    Homicides in Australia provided by the Australian Government 354 here is the source
    [gov.au/documents/0/B/6/%7B0B619F44-B18B-47B4-9B59-F87BA643CBAA%7Dfacts11.pdf".go v.au/documents/0/B/6/%7B0B619F44-B18B-47B4-9B59-F87BA643CBAA%7Dfacts11.pdf[/URL]
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH YOU JUST MADE YOURSELF OUT TO LOOK SO STUPID AGAIN YOU OBVIOUSLY CAN'T EVEN READ PROPERLY. GO BACK AND READ THE LINK WHICH YOU ATTACHED.

    Go back and have a look at the year next to your figure of 354, THAT WAS IN 1996 LMfAO. Our population in 1996 was about 15 million as well.

    In 2010 this was 260 for our TOTAL yearly homicide number. Our population as at today is nearing 25 million.

    Can you not read properly? LOL

    So whilst our population has significantly gone up, our TOTAL homicide numbers have dropped. Jealous?

    LOL how dumb do you feel now? You keep digging your own grave with your level of stupidity.

    Also your paranoia about war and being overthrown by tyrannical governments is nearing insanity ROFL. Your so worried and so caught up in it, it is HIGHLY UNLIKELY to happen in this day and age in our countries to the point where it's not worth even mentioning. If it was to happen then shyt happens ay. YOU ARE PARANOID AND LIVE IN FEAR. Just relax mate, take it easy. No worries.
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    You know your Country is f@#ked when...
    Even Australians fear walking in the dark much more so than Americans, Australia is a total crime ses pool.

    Source comes from the UN International Crime Victims Survey

    You know your Country is f@#ked when...
    Australians 100% more likely to be victims of assault crimes more so than Americans, Australia is a total tyrannical assault prone ses pool.

    Source by the UNRICI
    Rape victims Australia 1% .............................. ....USA 0.4%

    You know your Country is f@#ked when...(see above)
    Australians women are 150% more likely to be victims of rape more so than Americans, and women of Australia are deprived the same rights American women do to defend themselves (200,000 USA women deter sexual assault every year with guns)

    Source United Nations Interregional Crime and Justice Research Institute
    나는 2000년 10월 매들린 올브라이트 전 미 국무장관 매들린 사랑, 그 중 한 뜨거운 젠장!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glawry View Post
    Ok you wanted the facts, here they are, and yes I am going to use Australia as the example because the Laws were similar to Amercia before their reforms were brought in from 1996.

    Because I can't post links yet, instead of the *** insert www
    ***.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/australia
    ***.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/united-states

    *Key Statistics- Australia:

    - Total Gun Deaths 1996: 516
    - Total Gun Deaths 2010: 236, less than half of the gun deaths of 1996. 2012 which isn't quoted in the statistics were less than 200 gun deaths. In the 1980's the number's were up close to 700.
    - Rate of Gun deaths per 100,000 People 1996: 2.82
    - Rate of Gun deaths per 100,000 People 2010: 1.06 (number of deaths have gone down while the population has considerably gone up). One of the lowest rates in the world.
    - Rate of Firearm possession per 100 people: 15 (one of the lowest rates in the world)

    *Key Statistics- USA

    - Total Gun Deaths 1999: 28,874
    - Total Gun Deaths 2011: 32,163
    - Rate of Gun Deaths 2011: 10.3 per 100,000 people. One of the worst/highest rates in the world. 10 times more likely to be shot dead by a Gun than in Australia.
    - Rate of Firearm possession per 100 people: 88.8 (USA is ranked the highest in the world, all them guns don't seem to be doing you much good is it?)

    So there is your evidence, real world facts and statistics of 1) how gun reform works and 2) how atrocious Americas statistics are. Yes Australia's actual numbers are much lower that's because of the difference in population. I would much rather live in a country with less than 200 Gun deaths per year with a population of almost 25 million, and again most of the deaths there are bikie/gang/drug related so it's just the scum killing eachother. So, I might just book the next flight after all.
    Some previous stats for you to read. If you know how to read.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glawry View Post

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH YOU JUST MADE YOURSELF OUT TO LOOK SO STUPID AGAIN YOU OBVIOUSLY CAN'T EVEN READ PROPERLY. GO BACK AND READ THE LINK WHICH YOU ATTACHED.

    Go back and have a look at the year next to your figure of 354, THAT WAS IN 1996 LMfAO. Our population in 1996 was about 15 million as well.

    In 2010 this was 260 for our TOTAL yearly homicide number. Our population as at today is nearing 25 million.

    Can you not read properly? LOL

    So whilst our population has significantly gone up, our TOTAL homicide numbers have dropped. Jealous?

    LOL how dumb do you feel now? You keep digging your own grave with your level of stupidity.

    Also your paranoia about war and being overthrown by tyrannical governments is nearing insanity ROFL. Your so worried and so caught up in it, it is HIGHLY UNLIKELY to happen in this day and age in our countries to the point where it's not worth even mentioning. If it was to happen then shyt happens ay. YOU ARE PARANOID AND LIVE IN FEAR. Just relax mate, take it easy. No worries.
    :-)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glawry View Post
    Pretty poor comparison mate. There are 10's of thousands of police in your country and you have shot against 'some officers'. You don't know most cops so you can't speak on behalf of most cops.

    That is all.
    You were only using 2 in your example. Let me also mention that I worked at a police shooting range and saw more than some that were poor shots and I saw how they were trained. From what I saw in that time, I was severely disappointed with how poor their training was.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glawry View Post
    Some previous stats for you to read. If you know how to read.
    Oh jeez...not the keep re-posting the same stats over and over again tactic, lol

    I have a question for you, how many guns do you think I hold in my home right now?
    나는 2000년 10월 매들린 올브라이트 전 미 국무장관 매들린 사랑, 그 중 한 뜨거운 젠장!
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    Mod edit: ba bye
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glawry View Post
    Ax1 you dodged this question. How dumb and stupid do you feel knowing you posted incorrect facts/stats AGAIN as per above?

    You've consistently either blatantly lied or stupidly posted incorrect numbers which I have pointed out with evidence each and every time.

    Go back to school.
    I had already address the stats twice with sources and lost my interest. I doesn't matter to me if you have 3k homicides, 5k homicides or further petty stuff about how many people exactly live in your country. All I know is after my research I now know I never want to step my foot into your high rate criminal dangerous country you have.
    나는 2000년 10월 매들린 올브라이트 전 미 국무장관 매들린 사랑, 그 중 한 뜨거운 젠장!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glawry View Post
    No, it takes a special kind of stupid to think that the solution is more guns.

    What do u think is an ideal solution to reduce gun deaths then?
    Plus how many criminal get there hands on what were at time a legally bought fire-arm?
    Less guns available equals less potential for death by gun, seems logical to me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glawry View Post
    Mod edit: ba bye
    Saw that coming....
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick View Post
    Saw that coming....
    We should end this thread with this

    나는 2000년 10월 매들린 올브라이트 전 미 국무장관 매들린 사랑, 그 중 한 뜨거운 젠장!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glawry View Post

    LMFAO, you are a real fcuking stupid dumb khunt. I actually thought your debating was getting more civilized but now you are just spewing more garbage. Your stupid comments are quite annoying.

    .
    Debating was civilized till you started spewing more cuss words and being an all around as?. Seriously man wtf is your deal?
    Day by Day, we get better and better! Tillí we canít be beat Ė Wonít Be Beat!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glawry View Post

    Pretty poor comparison mate. There are 10's of thousands of police in your country and you have shot against 'some officers'. You don't know most cops so you can't speak on behalf of most cops.

    That is all.
    I am a cop, and yes i train off duty all the time! J am easily one of the best shots on my dept thanks in part to prior military training and my own upkeep of my skills. I CAN speak for cops as i know quite a few.

    Quote Originally Posted by ax1 View Post

    We should end this thread with this

    <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRUjr8EVgBg">YouTube Link</a>

    I absolutely love the way Mark Levin plays this at the end of his show on Friday's!!!!
    Day by Day, we get better and better! Tillí we canít be beat Ė Wonít Be Beat!
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    Quote Originally Posted by mustang0341 View Post
    Debating was civilized till you started spewing more cuss words and being an all around as?. Seriously man wtf is your deal?
    He's been band brother dont trip on him he was a Dbag. I wonder how long before he makes a new profile and digs up this thread?
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    Quote Originally Posted by McCrew530 View Post

    He's been band brother dont trip on him he was a Dbag. I wonder how long before he makes a new profile and digs up this thread?
    Bout time!
    Day by Day, we get better and better! Tillí we canít be beat Ė Wonít Be Beat!
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    Quote Originally Posted by mustang0341 View Post
    Bout time!
    For sure I am all for people having their own opinions and even arguing them with passion but when the other persons argument is nothing more than a slew of insults being vomited at the opposing side its to much. I know plenty of true Good ol’ Boys that could pull a Quigly Down Under on that kid.
    "How long between the reoport of the rifle was the impact of the bullet?"
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