Need advice. Tweaking my macros.

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by IPOM

    Not sure what those are...
    YouTube holds the answer you seek.


  2. It sounds like ur a "latest and greatest" adopter when it comes to diet technique. While I do have each study reference, I'd have to go into my PDF, copy and paste them. Give me a little while to find time for that. Either way, tell me something. Do you even know specifically why a low carb diet promotes fat loss? Did u also know a low carb diet promotes muscle loss as well?

    The method I speak of is the common method for amatuer and pro bodybuilders alike (not natural guys) for the past 20-30 years.

    The reason Atkins diet "works" (and by works I mean causes both muscle and fat loss) is because of the lack of carbs, ur body has to figure a way to feed itself. It does so in two ways, one is through fat metabolism, which takes time you see. Ur body cannot process fats quick enough for training or any moderate intensity movements or maybe I should say "anaerobic" activity. Fat is only utilized in aerobic activity. (If u try and argue this I'm gonna stop talking on this forum because there r some things u cant argue - this is one of them.) So where does the rest of ur energy come from? Certainly not carbs - u arent eating enouh of those to contribute to energy. The only other place a muscle can gather energy is within itself - the amino acids. It literally eats itself causing muscle wasting to fulfill the workout. Furthermore, as u lose muscle mass u also slow the metabolism down since ur BMR is steadily dropping. So losing weight becomes harder and harder to do. Then u stop the low carb diet and jump back to normal only to find that ur body goes into a survival mode (thanks to cutting carbs) and it stores up lots of fat for the next few weeks after the Atkins diet is over. So u end up with more fat and less muscle. Sounds like a typical "yo-yo" dieter doesnt it? Thats where the term came from - Atkins dieters. I know this to be true too because I've seen it happen to my brother!


    However, as a final word from myself on the subject matter, to ur point about high fat diets "working", they only work in the presence of little to no carbs and its not effective AT ALL for muscle preservation. And, looking at the OP's situation, he's not eating a low carb diet...

    So he needs to lower his fat intake since he is trying to bulk. I agree that if he wanted to lose weight, not specifying what type of weight, low carb setup is good for him. But as for me, I say the low carb setup is for soccer moms and newbie gym rats who havent figured out that low carb methods cost u more than its worth.

    And brown rice is freakin awesome, btw.
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  3. And just to clarify - I dont think that everyone else is "wrong" for disagreeing. I just made a suggestion and gave reason for my statement. Every time I mention low-fat I get chastised for such anarchy. I have no idea why. Perhaps its offensive because it challenges common practice in American society - which evidently reveals itself to be a failure.

    OP, u at least know my take on the matter. I like to find methods that allow me to "have my cake and eat it, too".

  4. Not sure on lifting experience but maybe your problem is the split program in the first place. Are you training or aesthetics or bodybuilding? Only a bodybuilder needs a workout like this especially since they are not worried about fat gain when bulking. I suggest 3 full body days a week. Also cycle your carbs.... You don't need that many carbs if you are not lifting that day. You seem to have a minor case of broscience as it seems most on this thread do as well. You may want to research mark Berkham and leangains, it could change your life...

  5. Quote Originally Posted by IPOM View Post
    So I'm on a bulking diet and I'm trying to get lean gains. I life weights 3 times a week for about 2 hours each day. I do cardio on the off days for 30 minutes each day and also work abs and neck on those days. I take Sunday off completely. My diet consists of clean foods like eggs, rolled oats, fruit, fresh vegetables, chicken, fish, occasional beef and pork, rice, potatoes, fat free cottage cheese, nut butter, and olive oil. I'm also drinking 2 gainer shakes each day to supplement my macros. I drink them in between breakfast and lunch, and again after my workout in the afternoon (before dinner). I'm also taking creatine @ 5g a day.

    I know some bodyfat is part of bulking, but I'm starting to accumulate some fat in the love-handle area and lower abs. I also notice that I'm nowhere near as vascular as I use to be. A little bodyfat is fine with me but I'm not digging the dimpled flesh on my obliques when I flex them. How should I tweak my macros to reduce some of the bodyfat??? Also, do you guys think I should do cardio following lifting so I'm doing it every day except Sunday???

    Calories: 4020
    Fat: 110
    Carbs: 450
    Protein: 335

    It says he's trying to get lean muscular gains. In order to get the muscle to hypertrophy and avoid getting bodyfat, he needs to have a slight excess of calories and relatively low fat intake, very high protein intake. This isn't based on any science, it's what has worked for me and I'm sure several others. You start taking carbs out and increasing fat while trying to get lean gains, you'll be tired and definitely not as lean as you would be with lower fat intake.
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick View Post
    YouTube holds the answer you seek.
    Yeah, I don't think I'll be doing those. I'll stick to deadlifts.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick

    Pull throughs as well.
    I did these today for the first time...kind of awkward, but once I found balance I could get into it. Problem is there's not really enough weight on the stack to feel like I'm challenging myself. I went slow to exaggerate the stretch, but nothing like RDLs or good mornings. Any way to make this one more difficult?

  8. Quote Originally Posted by uvawahoowa

    I did these today for the first time...kind of awkward, but once I found balance I could get into it. Problem is there's not really enough weight on the stack to feel like I'm challenging myself. I went slow to exaggerate the stretch, but nothing like RDLs or good mornings. Any way to make this one more difficult?
    I exaggerate the ROM, I sit really deep and really exaggerate the extension. You may have to try the machines for seated rows as they often have more weight. Moving farther from the pulley could also help.

    They look strange and I always get strange looks but it really helps with pulling strength IME. It teaches a good hip thrust from the bottom for the initial part of your pull.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by fueledpassion View Post
    It sounds like ur a "latest and greatest" adopter when it comes to diet technique. While I do have each study reference, I'd have to go into my PDF, copy and paste them. Give me a little while to find time for that. Either way, tell me something. Do you even know specifically why a low carb diet promotes fat loss? Did u also know a low carb diet promotes muscle loss as well?

    The method I speak of is the common method for amatuer and pro bodybuilders alike (not natural guys) for the past 20-30 years.

    The reason Atkins diet "works" (and by works I mean causes both muscle and fat loss) is because of the lack of carbs, ur body has to figure a way to feed itself. It does so in two ways, one is through fat metabolism, which takes time you see. Ur body cannot process fats quick enough for training or any moderate intensity movements or maybe I should say "anaerobic" activity. Fat is only utilized in aerobic activity. (If u try and argue this I'm gonna stop talking on this forum because there r some things u cant argue - this is one of them.) So where does the rest of ur energy come from? Certainly not carbs - u arent eating enouh of those to contribute to energy. The only other place a muscle can gather energy is within itself - the amino acids. It literally eats itself causing muscle wasting to fulfill the workout. Furthermore, as u lose muscle mass u also slow the metabolism down since ur BMR is steadily dropping. So losing weight becomes harder and harder to do. Then u stop the low carb diet and jump back to normal only to find that ur body goes into a survival mode (thanks to cutting carbs) and it stores up lots of fat for the next few weeks after the Atkins diet is over. So u end up with more fat and less muscle. Sounds like a typical "yo-yo" dieter doesnt it? Thats where the term came from - Atkins dieters. I know this to be true too because I've seen it happen to my brother!


    However, as a final word from myself on the subject matter, to ur point about high fat diets "working", they only work in the presence of little to no carbs and its not effective AT ALL for muscle preservation. And, looking at the OP's situation, he's not eating a low carb diet...

    So he needs to lower his fat intake since he is trying to bulk. I agree that if he wanted to lose weight, not specifying what type of weight, low carb setup is good for him. But as for me, I say the low carb setup is for soccer moms and newbie gym rats who havent figured out that low carb methods cost u more than its worth.

    And brown rice is freakin awesome, btw.
    Haha I knew my post would come back to haunt me. Just to be clear, I do not promote a low-carb diet and my initial point was not toward low carb. My point was that fat intake does not make you fat and i have provided several studies and videos to demonstrate my point. But form an anecdotal point of view, many members of this forum have low-carb diets yet are very muscular; must be doing something right. AutoKal47 for one NEVER eats carbs and if you see his avatar it clearly works for him. The body isnt so fast to degrade muscle tissue and is not as catabolic as people think.

    You stated that fat intake makes you fat, which is not true, considering it is actually recommened to have at least 30-33% of your calories from fats. Considering that saturated fats aid in testosterone production and other fats aid in hormone transport (steroid hormones which travel unbinded through the blood) and in vitamin storage (fat solubles).

    But on a final note, EFA's are essential, nowhere in the diet are carbs essential; beneficial yes, but they are a non-essential macro nutrient. Your body needs EFAs and EAAs for survival (not synthesized by the body).

    You also state that fats cannot be utilised for anaerobic activity, this isnt true. Beta Oxidation (in which fatty acids are used as energy) occurs which is the breakdown on fatty acids to produce Acetyl CoA and by-products of the breakdown of fatty acids are called Ketone Bodies which can be used in the replacement of glucose. The process is of course slow to begin with, but as the body adapts to low carb, the process becomes more effecient; allowing for continuation of high intensity exercise in the absence of carbohydrate.

    I bolded that phrase above as that is a very broad statement and there is more going on that simply fatty acids entering cells. Yes, fats are utilized for aerobic metabolism (more energy efficient and creates more ATP per molecule than glucose) and this is not disputed, but the process is not black and white. And I quote: "Carnitine transports long-chain acyl groups from fatty acids into the mitochondrial matrix, so they can be broken down through β-oxidation to acetyl CoA to obtain usable energy via the citric acid cycle. In some organisms, the acetate is used in the glyoxylate cycle for gluconeogenesis and formation of carbohydrates".

    Going back for a moment, and considering the Krebs cycle, lactate is a by-product of the Glycolytic system and is converted into pyruvate which can be converted into glucose via gluconeogenesis. Interestingly, odd chain fatty acids can be broken down into succinyl CoA which can become pyruvate in the absense of glycogen. Hence how anaerobic energy can be made in the absense of glucose.

    This is a very brief breakdown, but I hope it clears it up a bit.

    We could argue round in circles, or agree to disagree.

  10. I'm trying to do the same program as you. What are you weighing in at ?

  11. Quote Originally Posted by MeatHead1o1 View Post
    I'm trying to do the same program as you. What are you weighing in at ?
    Diet or workout? I currently weight 210.

  12. Quote Originally Posted by IPOM

    Diet or workout? I currently weight 210.
    I already read your workout, it looks good. And I'm currently trying to Tweek my diet but just like you I'm prone to gain the midsection weight so I'm trying to get lean gains by the best means possible. I weigh 215. I could burn some fat but I know the more muscle I have the more fat I burn. Are you going to stick with your new diet ratios? I need a similar model

  13. Quote Originally Posted by MeatHead1o1

    I already read your workout, it looks good. And I'm currently trying to Tweek my diet but just like you I'm prone to gain the midsection weight so I'm trying to get lean gains by the best means possible. I weigh 215. I could burn some fat but I know the more muscle I have the more fat I burn. Are you going to stick with your new diet ratios? I need a similar model
    How are you calculating your diet? Is it 40/40/20? I'm thinking about doing about 3300 calories a day, but I don't know how many carbs I need, protein, and fat. Do you know how to calculate this ?

  14. Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    Haha I knew my post would come back to haunt me. Just to be clear, I do not promote a low-carb diet and my initial point was not toward low carb. My point was that fat intake does not make you fat and i have provided several studies and videos to demonstrate my point. But form an anecdotal point of view, many members of this forum have low-carb diets yet are very muscular; must be doing something right. AutoKal47 for one NEVER eats carbs and if you see his avatar it clearly works for him. The body isnt so fast to degrade muscle tissue and is not as catabolic as people think.


    You stated that fat intake makes you fat, which is not true, considering it is actually recommened to have at least 30-33% of your calories from fats. Considering that saturated fats aid in testosterone production and other fats aid in hormone transport (steroid hormones which travel unbinded through the blood) and in vitamin storage (fat solubles).

    But on a final note, EFA's are essential, nowhere in the diet are carbs essential; beneficial yes, but they are a non-essential macro nutrient. Your body needs EFAs and EAAs for survival (not synthesized by the body).

    You also state that fats cannot be utilised for anaerobic activity, this isnt true. Beta Oxidation (in which fatty acids are used as energy) occurs which is the breakdown on fatty acids to produce Acetyl CoA and by-products of the breakdown of fatty acids are called Ketone Bodies which can be used in the replacement of glucose. The process is of course slow to begin with, but as the body adapts to low carb, the process becomes more effecient; allowing for continuation of high intensity exercise in the absence of carbohydrate.

    I bolded that phrase above as that is a very broad statement and there is more going on that simply fatty acids entering cells. Yes, fats are utilized for aerobic metabolism (more energy efficient and creates more ATP per molecule than glucose) and this is not disputed, but the process is not black and white. And I quote: "Carnitine transports long-chain acyl groups from fatty acids into the mitochondrial matrix, so they can be broken down through β-oxidation to acetyl CoA to obtain usable energy via the citric acid cycle. In some organisms, the acetate is used in the glyoxylate cycle for gluconeogenesis and formation of carbohydrates".

    Going back for a moment, and considering the Krebs cycle, lactate is a by-product of the Glycolytic system and is converted into pyruvate which can be converted into glucose via gluconeogenesis. Interestingly, odd chain fatty acids can be broken down into succinyl CoA which can become pyruvate in the absense of glycogen. Hence how anaerobic energy can be made in the absense of glucose.

    This is a very brief breakdown, but I hope it clears it up a bit.

    We could argue round in circles, or agree to disagree.
    We can agree to disagree about this one thing - 'that you need 30% fats for optimal health and that 1000+ calories in fats per day isn't gonna hold you back in being as lean as you can.'

    As for what I said about the diet and EFA's- you didn't read carefully: "Reduce dietary fat. Supplement with Omega-6 fats (but not too much). You want just enough fat to maintain health. I prefer the 10-15% range myself."



    If you just stop and ponder about the concept of fat in the body and how it contributes to survival - you'd start to realize the decreasing necessity of a high fat diet in a food-abundant (and carb/protein abundant) society like America. My philosophy on the diet is really to maximize metabolism to increase calorie deficit without cutting the calories. Fat doesn't increase the metabolism unless it is a MCT. Regardless, a number of times you pulled examples of things to try and prove me wrong, yet they were brought out of context. (Example is your idea that ketone bodies are used for energy in anaerobic activity). This is the case if you go keto for long enough but isn't the case for the OP. When you are eating 300-400g carbs per day you aren't keto and unless you consumed MCT oil you aren't using ketone bodies for energy during anaerobic training. You are using glucose, creatine and amino acids. All of those come from proteins and carbs. I continued to make points revolving around what the OP was doing. Keep the argument relevant and you'll have better luck next time convincing me (or anyone) of something.

  15. Quote Originally Posted by fueledpassion View Post
    We can agree to disagree about this one thing - 'that you need 30% fats for optimal health and that 1000+ calories in fats per day isn't gonna hold you back in being as lean as you can.'

    As for what I said about the diet and EFA's- you didn't read carefully: "Reduce dietary fat. Supplement with Omega-6 fats (but not too much). You want just enough fat to maintain health. I prefer the 10-15% range myself."



    If you just stop and ponder about the concept of fat in the body and how it contributes to survival - you'd start to realize the decreasing necessity of a high fat diet in a food-abundant (and carb/protein abundant) society like America. My philosophy on the diet is really to maximize metabolism to increase calorie deficit without cutting the calories. Fat doesn't increase the metabolism unless it is a MCT. Regardless, a number of times you pulled examples of things to try and prove me wrong, yet they were brought out of context. (Example is your idea that ketone bodies are used for energy in anaerobic activity). This is the case if you go keto for long enough but isn't the case for the OP. When you are eating 300-400g carbs per day you aren't keto and unless you consumed MCT oil you aren't using ketone bodies for energy during anaerobic training. You are using glucose, creatine and amino acids. All of those come from proteins and carbs. I continued to make points revolving around what the OP was doing. Keep the argument relevant and you'll have better luck next time convincing me (or anyone) of something.
    Ahh yes. I was simply pointing out that high fats do not translate into fat gain and was using studies and things to reinforce this point. I have a "thing" against the misunderstanding of fats role in the diet and that dietary fats translate into adipose fat, which is not true. This is what my argument was against.

  16. Quote Originally Posted by MeatHead1o1 View Post
    I already read your workout, it looks good. And I'm currently trying to Tweek my diet but just like you I'm prone to gain the midsection weight so I'm trying to get lean gains by the best means possible. I weigh 215. I could burn some fat but I know the more muscle I have the more fat I burn. Are you going to stick with your new diet ratios? I need a similar model
    I'll probably drop one of the gainer shakes and replace it with something less dense in calories.
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