BPS' What's improved with the upcoming DHEA transdermal

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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    isn't there a huge difference between a anti-estrogen like letro, and a aromatase inhibitor like say formestane. other than their mode of action that is.
    They're both aromatase inhibitors, but letro is reversible while formestane is steroidal and suicidal. Neither interact directly with the ER as part of their main MOA.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ape McGrapes View Post
    Straight from the horses mouth...well, sort of.


    I'm going to take PA's word on this.

    Now put some Epiandrosterone in this BPS.

    4-DHEA+Epiandrosterone+Pregnalon e for the win.
    Considering I still haven't seen any actual data on the matter, I take such scientific claims with a grain of salt. It's unsupported claims that lead to bro-science.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    i have never heard of transdermal lclt? you would have to check the molecular weight to see if it is compatible with the formasurge carrier...usually hormonals like formestane need a different carrier than say a caffeine/yohimbine fatburner.
    LCLT, from what I can find, has a MW of 472, which is a bit too big for TD. Sucks, this would be awesome!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Resolve View Post
    LCLT, from what I can find, has a MW of 472, which is a bit too big for TD. Sucks, this would be awesome!
    I had a feeling that would unfortunately be the case.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Resolve View Post
    LCLT, from what I can find, has a MW of 472, which is a bit too big for TD. Sucks, this would be awesome!
    it would of been cool and convenient to include lclt in a transdermal, but not really sure it would have improved results significantly over oral anyways??? at one time i thought about including divaniil in a td, but would have to experiment to see if it improved results significantly over oral...
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    Ursolic Acid

    Interestingly, Ursolic acid has also been shown to be an effective blocker of the enzyme aromatase, so it has the potential to control estrogen production and maximize testosterone release
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    L-dopa
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZMIDLYF View Post
    Ursolic AcidInterestingly, Ursolic acid has also been shown to be an effective blocker of the enzyme aromatase, so it has the potential to control estrogen production and maximize testosterone release
    Topical Urso would be an interesting addition for sure.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZMIDLYF View Post
    Ursolic Acid

    Interestingly, Ursolic acid has also been shown to be an effective blocker of the enzyme aromatase, so it has the potential to control estrogen production and maximize testosterone release

    pa thinks so, lol.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ape McGrapes View Post
    L-dopa
    macuna is another one i have thought of....hell, why not make a topical endosurge?
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    macuna is another one i have thought of....hell, why not make a topical endosurge?
    Hmm... Actually, that's a pretty good idea of it could be done! Resolve, Mr Biology Man, what says you on this idea?
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    I don't know but I love the idea of topical Urso, increased IGF-1, increased insulin sensitivity, lower estrogen... Very interesting... looking at the molecular weight though it is 456.7 I think the cut off for being a viable transdermally is 300. I may be wrong.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73
    I don't know but I love the idea of topical Urso, increased IGF-1, increased insulin sensitivity, lower estrogen... Very interesting... looking at the molecular weight though it is 456.7 I think the cut off for being a viable transdermally is 300. I may be wrong.
    Idk why you guys don't know this but Patrick Arnold makes Ur spray which is Arginine Ursolic Acetate. works transdermally
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    Quote Originally Posted by tallguy34 View Post
    Hmm... Actually, that's a pretty good idea of it could be done! Resolve, Mr Biology Man, what says you on this idea?
    I don't know if would enhance bioavailability, but Topical Endosurge is definitely feasible, and would probably rock.
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    Due to liability, I don't see endosurge ever coming in topical form.
    doing my own thang!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Austinmck17 View Post
    Idk why you guys don't know this but Patrick Arnold makes Ur spray which is Arginine Ursolic Acetate. works transdermally
    Not sure what is with the condescending tone there. Nor the assumption that there was a "We" in MY post. I certainly don't speak for the entire rep team. Many of them may be aware of that fact that he carries that product. I don't know why you think I should inherently know what PA is doing. His company is not BPS I don't represent him, and I am not paid to know everything about what every one does in the world of supplements. I am paid to fix computers. You have to realize this is something we do on the side not our entire lives nor livelihood. Expecting us to know what every other company has going on is unrealistic. Most of us are guys just like you all. I said I "think" that 300 was the cut off for being viable transdermally, and follow it with "I may be wrong." Leaving the door open to be corrected but not to be spoken down to. Last time I was making my own transdermal solutions which was a few years ago the carriers available the recommended threshold was around 300. That is the information I was speaking to.

    Thanks for making me aware of his transdermal product. I will probably have to pick some up now because I am a fan of Urso and it was his original Ursobolic that I used with great success.
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    Quote Originally Posted by andrew732 View Post
    Due to liability, I don't see endosurge ever coming in topical form.
    I must be missing something here, why would there be a liability with EndoSurge being made into a topical solution??
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    Quote Originally Posted by tallguy34 View Post
    I must be missing something here, why would there be a liability with EndoSurge being made into a topical solution??
    dopamine related side effects from entering the blood stream
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    As I recall, the legislation regarding topicals is different from standard supplement law, but I'll have to look it up again to remember how they differ...
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73

    Not sure what is with the condescending tone there. Nor the assumption that there was a "We" in MY post. I certainly don't speak for the entire rep team. Many of them may be aware of that fact that he carries that product. I don't know why you think I should inherently know what PA is doing. His company is not BPS I don't represent him, and I am not paid to know everything about what every one does in the world of supplements. I am paid to fix computers. You have to realize this is something we do on the side not our entire lives nor livelihood. Expecting us to know what every other company has going on is unrealistic. Most of us are guys just like you all. I said I "think" that 300 was the cut off for being viable transdermally, and follow it with "I may be wrong." Leaving the door open to be corrected but not to be spoken down to. Last time I was making my own transdermal solutions which was a few years ago the carriers available the recommended threshold was around 300. That is the information I was speaking to.

    Thanks for making me aware of his transdermal product. I will probably have to pick some up now because I am a fan of Urso and it was his original Ursobolic that I used with great success.
    Sorry man I didn't mean to come off like that. I thought most people who follow AM would have seen threads talking about Ur spray. Especially if one was interested in Ursolic acid. I didn't mean to speak to your whole team I was speaking to only you and whoever else was in this thread.

    I will more than likely get Ur spray to run this summer to help me lean out and maintain muscle when I switch to a more cardio based training program.
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    Quote Originally Posted by andrew732 View Post
    dopamine related side effects from entering the blood stream
    Interesting. I'll have to look into that when I can...


    Quote Originally Posted by Resolve View Post
    As I recall, the legislation regarding topicals is different from standard supplement law, but I'll have to look it up again to remember how they differ...
    Resolve, you can probably find it quicker than I can. Lol. But I'd be interested in hearing your take on it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by andrew732 View Post
    dopamine related side effects from entering the blood stream
    now you have me very interested in finding a high grade bulk macuna to put in a transdermal solution!!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    now you have me very interested in finding a high grade bulk macuna to put in a transdermal solution!!!!
    Why does this not shock me!! Lmao
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    Think topicals fall under The catagory of "cosmetics."
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    Excellent conversation. As someone on this inside, I can tell you all, you are going to LOVE the new transdermal. I myself am psyched to use it personally, let alone sell it lol.
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    Quote Originally Posted by metroba
    Excellent conversation. As someone on this inside, I can tell you all, you are going to LOVE the new transdermal. I myself am psyched to use it personally, let alone sell it lol.
    So its already been developed?
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    Indeed it has. If everything goes as planned, we are only a few more weeks out.
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    Ahhhh..definitely be keeping an eye out
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    I am very excited to see what this is going to be also.
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    Quote Originally Posted by metroba View Post
    Indeed it has. If everything goes as planned, we are only a few more weeks out.
    Best news I've heard all week
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    Quote Originally Posted by Austinmck17 View Post
    Sorry man I didn't mean to come off like that. I thought most people who follow AM would have seen threads talking about Ur spray. Especially if one was interested in Ursolic acid. I didn't mean to speak to your whole team I was speaking to only you and whoever else was in this thread.

    I will more than likely get Ur spray to run this summer to help me lean out and maintain muscle when I switch to a more cardio based training program.
    Well I have posted here too and didn't know, PA is a pariah in the industry, many of us don't keep up with his company that is poorly represented. Also, many people aren't natty and don't follow what many of the companies make. Best way to go is not assume .
    If my direct and cynical approach bothers you, just ignore it. I'm just saying what you need to hear ;).
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    Quote Originally Posted by metroba View Post
    Indeed it has. If everything goes as planned, we are only a few more weeks out.
    This is good news Rob!
    If my direct and cynical approach bothers you, just ignore it. I'm just saying what you need to hear ;).
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    Quote Originally Posted by oufinny View Post
    Well I have posted here too and didn't know, PA is a pariah in the industry, many of us don't keep up with his company that is poorly represented. Also, many people aren't natty and don't follow what many of the companies make. Best way to go is not assume .

    Since when is this the case? I think this is a bit of an overstatement.
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    i like BPS, but trash talking PA is lessening this...
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73

    I agree that pregnenolone is a good part of the formula. However I have to disagree with the statement that DHT is a powerfull A.I.

    DHT is not an AI at all. It can counteract some of the effects of Estrogen especially in breast tissue but it is a product of the aromatase process. The acronym AI means Aromatase Inhibitor naturally occuring DHT is one of the 2 hormones created when testosterone or DHEA is aromatized some is converted to DHT and some of it converted to Estrogen.

    Part of the reason steroidial DHT is beneficial at minimizing or reducing gyno is that when you begin to shut down from the higher DHT levels there is less testosterone and therefor less estrogen due to less aromatization. An estrogen starved mammary gland will shrink, and if starved of estrogen long enough some of the cells can even die.
    Hey Kleen,

    Not trying to rain on your parade or be condescending or anything of the sort... but this is truly a misinformed statement.

    Dht is a product of 5a reductase, not the aromatase enzyme. There are no hormonal "byproducts" of the aromatase process. There is one, single, steroidal skeleton involved, typically in the form of testosterone, the aromatase enzyme attaches and then adds the necessary compound to turn that steroidal skeleton into one bearing the formula for estrogen. Plain and simple. There aren't 2 skeletons that cleave making both estrogen and dht or any other sort of combo. They both occur through their own individual enzymatic conversion processes on individual skeletons [of testosterone].

    Check out any male hormone conversion chart... Google can show many out here's one on my photobucket.... ... and you'll see what I'm talking about.



    Separate point.... kinda... is my disagreement that this is even a viable hormone supplement for the market...

    I know many others like dermacrine have come and gone, impressing many... but i just don't see it and think that any male should avoid supplementing dhea like the plague unless on trt and they need a viable source for other sex hormones...

    I've made multiple arguments, that cite studies, against dhea use(especially transdermal) that i can copy or link if wanted...but essentially it shows how horrible dhea really can be for a man and the horrible ratio of testosterone conversion that occurs compared to estrogen(something like 40% increase in T compared to a 300% increase in E over baseline values) and i know the argument is an AI is included BUT it's not a strong one, def not strong enough to offset those percentages. Not to mention dhea has its own intrinsic effects at the ER AND other metabolites dhea converts to(that an AI can't block)also have direct interactions at the ER....

    So like I said, really unless your lacking in estrogen, I'd avoid taking dhea like the plague.

    Again not trying to start an argument, just making some viable points I'd be happy to back up further if requested to do so.
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    Sourdough, pretty sure you misinterpreted Kleen's post. Kleen, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you were trying to say that test can be converted to either DHT or estradiol, not that the single sterol skeleton was being split into two separate hormones.

    Edit: I've seen conversion rates in studies both high and low, seems very dependent on model system. Also, there is plenty of evidence of DHEA having beneficial effects in plenty of studies, though the mechanism is still certainly not agreed upon.
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    Quote Originally Posted by megadeth View Post
    Since when is this the case? I think this is a bit of an overstatement.
    Innovator is more like it. Over the last 10 years PA is probably responsible for more big discoveries in supplements than anyone else out there. Usually what he brings to the market first is what everyone else will have in their product down the road.
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    Quote Originally Posted by megadeth View Post
    Since when is this the case? I think this is a bit of an overstatement.
    No, he is based on his past involvement in the BALCO scandal. Maybe that is not the best choice of words to use but I don't pray at the alter of Patrick Arnold though he is an excellent source of info from time to time (only read a little of what he posts). He was an innovator prior to his incarceration and I wanted to run his products of the past more so than what little I have seen come out recently. It is neither here nor there, people are allowed to like and believe what they want, I have no skin in the game past helping anyone with BPS.
    If my direct and cynical approach bothers you, just ignore it. I'm just saying what you need to hear ;).
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    Quote Originally Posted by oufinny View Post
    No, he is based on his past involvement in the BALCO scandal. Maybe that is not the best choice of words to use but I don't pray at the alter of Patrick Arnold though he is an excellent source of info from time to time (only read a little of what he posts). He was an innovator prior to his incarceration and I wanted to run his products of the past more so than what little I have seen come out recently. It is neither here nor there, people are allowed to like and believe what they want, I have no skin in the game past helping anyone with BPS.
    Nor do I pray at the alter of Patrick Arnold. I do however give respect where it's due. He was an innovator before his incarceration and still is today. All you have do do is take a look at UR spray which is sold out constantly and as far as I have seen has had unanimous positive reviews. Yes, Pat went to prison during the Balco scandal. So what! Lots of the guys that have run supplement companies have gone to prison. Not to mention, Patrick went for doing much less than the supplement companies selling hormones today with impunity are doing. He is one of the guys that paved the way for companies like BPS.
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    Let's try and keep politics out of this thread and get back to what's important. This stuff is going to be amazing and it is going to be well received by the public.

    Anyone want to guess the name?
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