Your opinion on HST training?

[exnihilo]

No need to get weak. Just eat right and change your training style a bit and you could hit that mark without any significant strength loss at all. I've cut people down while they gained strength (shameless pimping plug)

:lol:

You seem to believe too many myths about BB'ers.

There's a difference between limit strength and strength endurance though - limit strength is what I want to keep The veggies have made a huge difference though, I really must say, I feel like 10x better since I got on them.

 

[houseman]

All I have to say is Pudz is the fucking man!

 

[Dwight Schrute]

There's a difference between limit strength and strength endurance though - limit strength is what I want to keep The veggies have made a huge difference though, I really must say, I feel like 10x better since I got on them.

I know and it still applies. It doesn't take much to maintain it given the diet is right and certain exercises/training are maintained.

 

[houseman]

All I still have to say is Bobo is the fucking man.

lol

 

[Dwight Schrute]

Why thank you :lol:

 

[houseman]

Why thank you :lol:

Lol. you prick

hah

 

[kwyckemynd00]

The exception to the rule are the genetic elite. Many of these guy do NOT have wide hips at all.

You seem to be missing the point altogether. Of course there will be be people with wider hips but the trianing in itself develops muscle in an around the core area making their waist thicker all around. The type of growth is purely myofibullar will little to no sarcoplasmic growth at all. THis isn't a myth. Its training fact. I have experienced it, trained people who have experienced and have seen it over the years with many people. I know plenty of powerlifters that don't have wide hips (bones strucutre) at all and throw up some pretty impressive weight due to core strength. Joey Gallaway is a prime example. The guy lifts extraordinary amounts of weight and is a stick. (185lbs soaking wet)


"PLers can develope like BBers if their genetic allow for it...i.e. Kyle....he trains ONLY for PL and has a 930 squat, a 715 bench, and a 745 dead.

His genetics allow him to keep good proportions, despite training style. However, I'm sure thta if he followed a BB routine, he would be even more aesthetically pleasing, but, my piont is, it's genetic for the most part."


That is exactly what I said before. The genetic elite look more like bodybuilders than powerlifters. THe majority of powerlifters don't look like powerlifters because of genetics, its because of the years of trianing/nutrition that builds ups the core (along with shitty diets). You can easily have a thick waist with small hips. Svend Karlsen doesn't have a large bone structure (was a bodybuilder). Magnus Samuelson has relatively thin hips but his waist is just as larger or even larger. You can even take it to the women's side with Jill Mills. She looks more like a bodybuilder than powerlifter. Many of the top level athletes do not have those qualities you state. Its quite the opposite.

Okay, we must not be understanding each other.

You said PLers are wide b/c of how they train, I said, it has more to do with genetics.

Then, I show you a picture of Kyle, and elite Pler, and you say that was your point. Kyle trains like a Pler and DOES NOT have wide hips and IS NOT developing out of proportion. I say, that's b/c of his genetics, despite his PL routine (which is 100% PL). I did that in order to emphasize my point that genetics have more to do with PLer proportions (especially squatters / dlers) than their training routine does.

So, my point in bringing a pic of kyle was to say that training like a powerlifter isn't what causes people to have wide hips, it's the fact that they were born with wide hips that makes them have wide hips, lol. (and thus, fit for two of the 3 PL movements).

Many great squatters and DLers have wide hips. Now, you can assume that they have wide hips b/c they squat or DL alot, or you can assume they're great squatters / DLers b/c their genetics allow it (including the wide hips--which, as an PLers exhinilo confirms help the lifter for those two exercises).

I never said there weren't genetically gifted PLers with great proportions, i just said that the training style has less to do with most elite PLers developing a certain way than their genetics.

I'm not going to deny that sometimes you see PLer with ridiculous biceps and things b/c they do'nt train them, that does happen--and in that case, that would be a routine that makes a PLer out of proportion (or adds to the problem). But, I'm sure that if you took many of the guys you see in PL with wide hips, and had them traing BBers style, you would see that their proportions stay similar. There WOULD be improvement, but ultimately, their genetics would keep their hips wide.

I've got a cousin who was born to PL (yet he doesn't). He doesn't even DL and he pulled 600lbs not that long ago. Hell, he doesn't even work his legs--he just runs in the Marines. He's got a big ass, legs (about 30" with veins running through them at 6' tall), and wide hips--naturally--and always has. There is nothing you could do, short of reconstructive surgery that I'm sure most doctors wouldn't dare to do, that could change the way he is built.

He could do what he's trying to do, and focus on his back and shoulders to make up for it, but you can still tell. He could easily be an elite PLer, but he could never be an elite BBer, not because of how he trains, but because of how he was born.

(Can you tell, I lie on the genetics side of the fence hahaa)

 

[Dwight Schrute]

Okay, we must not be understanding each other.

You said PLers are wide b/c of how they train, I said, it has more to do with genetics.

Then, I show you a picture of Kyle, and elite Pler, and you say that was your point. Kyle trains like a Pler and DOES NOT have wide hips and IS NOT developing out of proportion. I say, that's b/c of his genetics, despite his PL routine (which is 100% PL). I did that in order to emphasize my point that genetics have more to do with PLer proportions (especially squatters / dlers) than their training routine does.

So, my point in bringing a pic of kyle was to say that training like a powerlifter isn't what causes people to have wide hips, it's the fact that they were born with wide hips that makes them have wide hips, lol. (and thus, fit for two of the 3 PL movements).

Many great squatters and DLers have wide hips. Now, you can assume that they have wide hips b/c they squat or DL alot, or you can assume they're great squatters / DLers b/c their genetics allow it (including the wide hips--which, as an PLers exhinilo confirms help the lifter for those two exercises).

I never said there weren't genetically gifted PLers with great proportions, i just said that the training style has less to do with most elite PLers developing a certain way than their genetics.

I'm not going to deny that sometimes you see PLer with ridiculous biceps and things b/c they do'nt train them, that does happen--and in that case, that would be a routine that makes a PLer out of proportion (or adds to the problem). But, I'm sure that if you took many of the guys you see in PL with wide hips, and had them traing BBers style, you would see that their proportions stay similar. There WOULD be improvement, but ultimately, their genetics would keep their hips wide.

I've got a cousin who was born to PL (yet he doesn't). He doesn't even DL and he pulled 600lbs not that long ago. Hell, he doesn't even work his legs--he just runs in the Marines. He's got a big ass, legs (about 30" with veins running through them at 6' tall), and wide hips--naturally--and always has. There is nothing you could do, short of reconstructive surgery that I'm sure most doctors wouldn't dare to do, that could change the way he is built.

He could do what he's trying to do, and focus on his back and shoulders to make up for it, but you can still tell. He could easily be an elite PLer, but he could never be an elite BBer, not because of how he trains, but because of how he was born.

(Can you tell, I lie on the genetics side of the fence hahaa)

Its real simple. PL'er are wide in the waist in terms of MUSCLE growth because of the way they train. The discussion was muscle growth, not bone strucuture and hip width. If they have wide hips or not, they still will develop a more thick look around the midsection (abs, obliques, iliocastalis, longissimus) because of the core training.

I could care less about the bone structure. Their training will cuase them to increase size more in the core areas and also upper body with less growth to the extremties.

This is widely known FACT in every Exercise and Strenght Training Program. For you to argue any of those point is completely ridiculous. ( I really hope you're not)

This is what I said from the beginning.

"There is also a difference in growth vs. quality growth. Many powerlifterfs grow but their propertions and shape are awful. The growth is thick, bulky and has very little asthetic shape to it."

THIs was a response to exnilo saying he could gain a good amount off of powerlifting routines. The growth is in areas many bodybuilders don't want growth around (they don't want large midsections). Being heavily dependent on PL'ing will encourgage growth in that area. Bodybulders want quality growth (equally proportionate in both thickness and fullness) everywhere, not just around the core.

Are some people born with a wider hips therefor adpat better to powerlifting? OF course but I wasn't talking about that. I was talking about the results of years of training in a powerlifting routine and its influence on CORE growth and lack of myofibullar and sarcoplasmic growth in their extremeties.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

I'm not going to deny that sometimes you see PLer with ridiculous biceps and things b/c they do'nt train them, that does happen--and in that case, that would be a routine that makes a PLer out of proportion (or adds to the problem). But, I'm sure that if you took many of the guys you see in PL with wide hips, and had them traing BBers style, you would see that their proportions stay similar. There WOULD be improvement, but ultimately, their genetics would keep their hips wide.

The majoroty of PL'er are this way. Its not just sometimes, its the majority of the time. I've seen it so many times in gyms up and down the east coast (mainly from Boston, New York, Philly). These guys could less about proportion and the certainly don't do curls and rope pushdowns. THeir diets are awful, they consume a large amount of calories which only encourages both muscle anf fat gain in the midsection.

If they stopped training that way, incorporated a BB'ing type routine and wathced their diet of course they could change their proportions by a large margin. Its not like that have a 12 inch difference in hip width. Its a 3-6 inch MAX.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

(Can you tell, I lie on the genetics side of the fence hahaa)

I've had clients who though that way as well. For the most part, they realize its more of an excuse than anything. Genetics play a role in probably 1% of 1% of 1% of the elite. In other words, the very TOP. People use it as a crutch all to often.

Look at my before pic and that bird chest, no shoulders and sticks for arms

 

[exnihilo]

For me I've found that genetics determine where you start, and what you respond to, and to a very small degree how far you can go. I didn't start insanely strong and a lot of the top PLs didn't, I respond to a lot of things pretty well but some guys can do 3 sets of 10 reps forever and keep getting bigger and stronger - it wasn't until I started training westside that my gains started to skyrocket, and the gear has just kicked that up a notch... I fully expect to be benching over ~650, squatting 900 and deadlifting 750-800 within 2-3 years if I don't get injured or have a major lifestyle issue that prevents me from training balls to the wall. It's not that I'm super gifted (I would consider my genes well above average for size and strength, nothing phenominal though), it's the combination of hard work, an excellent routine/coaching and fairly moderate use of juice (I make a lot of jokes about being a juice whore - and my last cycle was big - but I really haven't been using for that long, nor that heavily before recently). That's all you need. Since I've learned to cook healthy and make it taste good I'm sure things will work out that much better too... Let that be a lesson - optimize all your variables, make it your life, be smart, and you will succeed

Oh, I do think kyle's small waist would probably be ridiculously small if he trained with less heavy core-involving movements... But who wants to have to wear clown pants ? If my waist gets any smaller my thighs won't fit in BAGGY fit genes I can't imagine people with naturally small waists who are very lean and muscular at the same time - that'd be horrible

 

[Dwight Schrute]

Yeah, people stare at us like freaks. Its a tough life.



:lol:

 

[kwyckemynd00]

.......

Eh, I'm not gonna get into the details anymore. I think we're on the same page for the most part.

Its just that your using the word "aweful" to describe the physique of PLers kinda threw me off b/c IMHO you can have a good physique as a PLer, with a good diet (i.e. kyle, mariusz, etc.).

Anway, I'd say we're probably kinda close to the same page...i think if you took a PL routine and slightly modified it, you can have a damn good BB routine and you won't look like an out of proportion freak...my .02...

 

[houseman]

Bobo is still a prick

 

[exnihilo]

heh, I think PL routines are great for packing on size Not too concerned about symmetry, if I were I'd just change my exercise selection a little.

I will say thought that having done PL training for a while I don't get the stupidly big pumps anymore I used to get when I did more high rep work, even if I do high rep work now. Doesn't bother me really

 

[Dwight Schrute]

Bobo is still a prick

And houseman is going to get banned.

 

[houseman]

And houseman is going to get banned.

Hey now!

I'm actually surprised that did happen about 5 mins after I joined here.

lol

 

[Dwight Schrute]

heh, I think PL routines are great for packing on size Not too concerned about symmetry, if I were I'd just change my exercise selection a little.

I will say thought that having done PL training for a while I don't get the stupidly big pumps anymore I used to get when I did more high rep work, even if I do high rep work now. Doesn't bother me really

Yeah, those pumps are just awful.

The more you criticize bodybuilders....the more you...





:rofl:

 

[exnihilo]

Yeah, those pumps are just awful.

The more you criticize bodybuilders....the more you...





:rofl:

The only criticism that's 100% serious is the underwear/shaving/fake tan/posing criticism the rest are just jabs at my smaller, prettier, less powerful brothers in iron - I think it's a healthy exchange.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

The only criticism that's 100% serious is the underwear/shaving/fake tan/posing criticism the rest are just jabs at my smaller, prettier, less powerful brothers in iron - I think it's a healthy exchange.

You look tan in your avatar, you are showing you "abs" and you would probably pose if you didn't hold that camera.

If you love PL'ing, get a pic of you squatting a car or something. The one you have now looks more like a bodybuilding avatar

Oh how the truth comes out when denial is at its peak!!!


:rofl:

 

[exnihilo]

You look tan in your avatar, you are showing you "abs" and you would probably pose if you didn't hold that camera.

If you love PL'ing, get a pic of you squatting a car or something. The one you have now looks more like a bodybuilding avatar

Oh how the truth comes out when denial is at its peak!!!


:rofl:

Haha, I've got some PL pics, I look like a giant fucking ogre in them, they're great, I love them. I know some jackass would make a stupid comment about my singlet though

In fact, I think I'll go to school and scan them up today just to share - it's great, my neck is so thick it merges into my head like a giant lump sticking off my shoulders

I'll get around to some posedown pics next time I get a camera - when I went to weigh in after my workout today (279, in a good way) I looked freaky... I almost felt like a bodybuilder - I had the urge to eat a whole bag of oreos

 

[cable626]

exnihilo, i'm scared of you

 

[Dwight Schrute]

:lol:

 

[fkngchucknorris]

I didn't vote because I feel it has some really good ideas and some problems. I personally couldn't keep up with myself, but that may be because its damn near impossible to do 1-2 sets and move on to another body part. Psychological issue on my part. And if you DON'T do that, you overtrain. I guess I need to give it more strict consideration before I rule it out. For sure, however, it (or a modified version) can be successfully employed to change up/shock the system and bust a plateau from stagnation. Full body workouts are just not realistic except for this purpose IMO. I suggest everyone learn about it and give it a try if you are getting stuck or stale.

I agree I have a problem only doing 1-2 sets. I feel like I need to do at least 3 to get a good burn.

 

[kwyckemynd00]

exnihilo, i'm scared of you

Why b/c he probably drops turds as big as most of our biceps? :rofl:

Can't wait to see the rest of his pics He's a huge mofo...

 

[exnihilo]

Haha, okay, because Bobo goaded me into it, here are some PL pics - I think they're great I look scary as hell!

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/showthread.php?p=299425#post299425

 

[CDB]

I agree I have a problem only doing 1-2 sets. I feel like I need to do at least 3 to get a good burn.

That's not really a problem. Lots of people include drops sets, burns, everything in HST. To avoid over training is simple, you just have to spread the volume out over a longer period of time. Instead of every 48 hours, workout every 72 hours. You compromise frequency a bit, but maybe that's what you need to do and it really won't matter much in the end, if at all. No big deal. Just got to remember it's the principles behind the workout that make it fall along HST guidelines. For example volume in HST is essentially the same as Max OT. Say your day for arms in Max OT gets you six sets of 5 reps. During the fives in HST you'll see those six sets if not more (cluster style), but over the course of 3 days during the week. Overall volume of work is the same, the HST style would just let you workout more frequently without overtraining. However, if you feel you need the extra sets in each workout, spread the frequency out a bit more. You wouldn't want to go back to once a week because you want to get your workouts as close together as possible, but there is enough wiggle room to allow for significant variations.

 

[combat_action]

Hey guys, I'm new to this forum, old in others. As for HST, I like the science behind it, but I think it's geared more towards weightlifters who don't lift as heavy as others. I had a big problem with benching 315 for 3 x 5 on Monday, 325 for 3 x 5 on Wed., ect... I won't even get into deadlifts/squats. For the 5's I needed to do more sets so the volume could stay relatively the same throughout. ie. 1 x 15, 2 x 10, 3 x 5 = 15 total reps, 20, 15. I do wish I found this program way back when I started weightlifting though!

 

[CDB]

Hey guys, I'm new to this forum, old in others. As for HST, I like the science behind it, but I think it's geared more towards weightlifters who don't lift as heavy as others. I had a big problem with benching 315 for 3 x 5 on Monday, 325 for 3 x 5 on Wed., ect... I won't even get into deadlifts/squats. For the 5's I needed to do more sets so the volume could stay relatively the same throughout. ie. 1 x 15, 2 x 10, 3 x 5 = 15 total reps, 20, 15. I do wish I found this program way back when I started weightlifting though!

It's really geared towards anyone. Higher weights can make the frequency a bit much on the CNS, but since you're basically never working to failure it's not an issue with most. Quite a few people with use HST while still lifting some impressive weight. There are methods for reducing CNS strain as well if it's an issue. Split workouts, decreasing frequency, etc. Most people prefer to keep colume constant or increasing it seems, but there are also those that decrease it, or who throw in slightler lighter weight sets for metabolic work.

 

[SKYWALKER09]

I think HST works great, it's kind of confusing at first when trying to set it up...But if you set it up right, it works great, my workout partner and I both saw pretty good strength and size increases on it. I have an excel program that simplifies it fairly well if anyone is interested..

CK

I am just starting week two of my first HST program and would be very interested in seeing this spreadsheet. I tried to PM you instead of posting this but it wouldnt let me.

 

[CDB]

I am just starting week two of my first HST program and would be very interested in seeing this spreadsheet. I tried to PM you instead of posting this but it wouldnt let me.

I'm got my own spreadsheet that does this, but it's geared towards my own tweaked version of HST so it probably wouldn't help anyone. Basically the first two microcycles are compressed into one week each, with the fives being handled normally. I also don't bother finding the maxes for any rep range other than the fives, and the sheet is set up to give me a 5% or five to ten pound increase every workout, depening on how low the max weight is, and it just puts a number in for each workout. If you're going to do cluster style HST I think that's the way to go, because the maxes count less then. All you do is push to hit the rep goal for volume, no matter how the reps end up getting broken down.

Right now I'm hitting the end of another deconditioning period. Going to start my even more tweaked version, Cluster 21. Basically doing 21s for each exercise the whole cycle. Either 21 straight, or three sets of seven reps. It's probably going to kill me, but I felt it was worth a try. For those that don't know, 21s are when you do one half of the range of movement for 7 reps, the other half for 7, then the full movement for 7. Great for TUT it seems.

 

[SKYWALKER09]

CDB, that sounds like a balls to the wall workout everytime. Good luck with that, post a log if you can, Id love to see your reaction to that pain, haha. Thats cool about the spread sheet, Im working with the typical cycle info. I am curious if I could extend my 10's and 5's to three weeks each instead of just 2. I want to run either SD, M1T, or ergomax during this cycle and have been thinking about this:

Week 1: 15's
Week 2: 15's
Week 3: 10's
Week 4: 10's On cycle
Week 5: 10's On cycle
Week 6: 5's On cycle
Week 7: 5's On cycle
Week 8: 5's Start of PCT
Week 9-11: Not sure of what kind of training to do during PCT

Obviously you can see I havent worked out all the bugs in this cycle. I have just been thinking I really want to run 4 weeks on cycle while training with HST. Not really sure how to work it, Im going to be traveling for business during some of this time, but will have access to a golds gym near the hotel im staying in Atlanta. Im starting week 2 right now. Been reading alot about it all over the boards, but not sure what to do yet. Any ideas or suggestions or additional links would be appreciated.

 

[CDB]

CDB, that sounds like a balls to the wall workout everytime. Good luck with that, post a log if you can, Id love to see your reaction to that pain, haha. Thats cool about the spread sheet, Im working with the typical cycle info. I am curious if I could extend my 10's and 5's to three weeks each instead of just 2. I want to run either SD, M1T, or ergomax during this cycle and have been thinking about this:

Week 1: 15's
Week 2: 15's
Week 3: 10's
Week 4: 10's On cycle
Week 5: 10's On cycle
Week 6: 5's On cycle
Week 7: 5's On cycle
Week 8: 5's Start of PCT
Week 9-11: Not sure of what kind of training to do during PCT

Obviously you can see I havent worked out all the bugs in this cycle. I have just been thinking I really want to run 4 weeks on cycle while training with HST. Not really sure how to work it, Im going to be traveling for business during some of this time, but will have access to a golds gym near the hotel im staying in Atlanta. Im starting week 2 right now. Been reading alot about it all over the boards, but not sure what to do yet. Any ideas or suggestions or additional links would be appreciated.

Just do it during the tens and fives and keep them both to two weeks, and instead of negatives after the fives do another two weeks of fives with decreased frequency/volume for PCT. After PCT keep up the training, don't SD right away or psychologically and physically, you'll crash. Go to the HST forums on the HST/HSN website and look up posts by Blade, he's great with AAS and HST cycles.

 

[SKYWALKER09]

Just do it during the tens and fives and keep them both to two weeks, and instead of negatives after the fives do another two weeks of fives with decreased frequency/volume for PCT. After PCT keep up the training, don't SD right away or psychologically and physically, you'll crash. Go to the HST forums on the HST/HSN website and look up posts by Blade, he's great with AAS and HST cycles.

Yeah I was reading them last night. Lots of good stuff there. Do YOU have any suggestions for after the two weeks of 5's on PCT? Maybe two more weeks at 10's while on PCT. My PCT will run 4 weeks and Im really hesistant to go directly into SD after PCT is over. I would think I need to keep training a little right after PCT, just to make sure I keep my gains.

 

[CDB]

Yeah I was reading them last night. Lots of good stuff there. Do YOU have any suggestions for after the two weeks of 5's on PCT? Maybe two more weeks at 10's while on PCT. My PCT will run 4 weeks and Im really hesistant to go directly into SD after PCT is over. I would think I need to keep training a little right after PCT, just to make sure I keep my gains.

You do. I'm sorry, in my original post I should have made that clear. Keep trainingthrough all four weeks of PCT and afterwards as well. Just reduce the frequency/volume or you'll tear yourself up. Other suggestions, not really. Keep it simple is the best way.

 

[SKYWALKER09]

cool, thanks man

 

[jweave23]

I've done HST with AS cycles before and have done the 5's through PCT and simply kept up the weight but reduced volume for 2 weeks past PCT. Then do SD, as CDB said :thumbsup:

 

[SKYWALKER09]

I've done HST with AS cycles before and have done the 5's through PCT and simply kept up the weight but reduced volume for 2 weeks past PCT. Then do SD, as CDB said :thumbsup:

That sounds like it would be really good. How many weeks was your PCT? Did it look something like this?

Week 3: 2 sets of 10 on cycle
Week 4: 2 sets of 10 on cycle
Week 5: 3 sets of 5 on cycle
Week 6: 3 sets of 5 on cycle
Week 7: 3 sets of 5 PCT
Week 8: 3 sets of 5 PCT
Week 9: 3 sets of 5 PCT
Week 10: 2 sets of 5 PCT
Week 11: 2 sets of 5
Week 12: 2 sets of 5
Week 13-14: SD

That seem like a lot of 5's to me, but it might work out really well.

 

[jweave23]

That sounds like it would be really good. How many weeks was your PCT? Did it look something like this?

Week 3: 2 sets of 10 on cycle
Week 4: 2 sets of 10 on cycle
Week 5: 3 sets of 5 on cycle
Week 6: 3 sets of 5 on cycle
Week 7: 3 sets of 5 PCT
Week 8: 3 sets of 5 PCT
Week 9: 3 sets of 5 PCT
Week 10: 2 sets of 5 PCT
Week 11: 2 sets of 5
Week 12: 2 sets of 5
Week 13-14: SD

That seem like a lot of 5's to me, but it might work out really well.

not exactly like that, but something sort of close. You can alter your HST in MANY ways to get what you need. I did a 12 week test/winny cycle and ended with 6 weeks of 5's, but the total was like 16 or 18 weeks. I've also done an 8 week cycle in a similar way. Remeber, you can vary your reps and such quite a bit. For your 6 week cycle, you could do:

weeks 1-2 15 reps 1 set
weeks 2-4 10 reps 1 set 5 reps 1 set
weeks 4-8 8 reps 2 sets
weeks 8-14 5 reps 3 sets

The important thing is that you increase weight over the entire cycle until SD, you can certainly repeat weights, or use very small increments if that is better for you. Also you are not stuck to 2 weeks of the same rep scheme, you can do 4 weeks of certain rep schemes if you like. Another important thing to remember is you should try and keep the total number of reps constant throughout, dropping only on PCT if needed, IMO.

 

[Sky9]

not exactly like that, but something sort of close. You can alter your HST in MANY ways to get what you need. I did a 12 week test/winny cycle and ended with 6 weeks of 5's, but the total was like 16 or 18 weeks. I've also done an 8 week cycle in a similar way. Remeber, you can vary your reps and such quite a bit. For your 6 week cycle, you could do:

weeks 1-2 15 reps 1 set
weeks 2-4 10 reps 1 set 5 reps 1 set
weeks 4-8 8 reps 2 sets
weeks 8-14 5 reps 3 sets

The important thing is that you increase weight over the entire cycle until SD, you can certainly repeat weights, or use very small increments if that is better for you. Also you are not stuck to 2 weeks of the same rep scheme, you can do 4 weeks of certain rep schemes if you like. Another important thing to remember is you should try and keep the total number of reps constant throughout, dropping only on PCT if needed, IMO.

Thanks alot, I think I got the idea now. I will be posting my log soon. Thanks guys.

 

[dsl]

one thing I have always wondered is if one needs to take a rest between sets or can go directly to another exercise?

 

[jweave23]

one thing I have always wondered is if one needs to take a rest between sets or can go directly to another exercise?

I think that depends on the individual, but generally I would say, yes rest some. I tend to fatigue over the entir workout, so at the beginning my rest intervals are short and lengthen by the end, this seems natural. I would recommend you try and pace yourself though and not rush through the beginning because it isn't tiring.

 

[Sky9]

not exactly like that, but something sort of close. You can alter your HST in MANY ways to get what you need. I did a 12 week test/winny cycle and ended with 6 weeks of 5's, but the total was like 16 or 18 weeks. I've also done an 8 week cycle in a similar way. Remeber, you can vary your reps and such quite a bit. For your 6 week cycle, you could do:

weeks 1-2 15 reps 1 set
weeks 2-4 10 reps 1 set 5 reps 1 set
weeks 4-8 8 reps 2 sets
weeks 8-14 5 reps 3 sets

The important thing is that you increase weight over the entire cycle until SD, you can certainly repeat weights, or use very small increments if that is better for you. Also you are not stuck to 2 weeks of the same rep scheme, you can do 4 weeks of certain rep schemes if you like. Another important thing to remember is you should try and keep the total number of reps constant throughout, dropping only on PCT if needed, IMO.

One question:
On weeks 2-4: 10 reps 1 set 5 reps 1 set
Do you up the weights on the set of 5 so that you can only do five reps with that, or do you keep the weight the same as the set of 10. Im moving my log over today and putting up pictures, which thread do you think i should put it in since Im going to run superdrol for 3-4 weeks?

 

[jweave23]

One question:
On weeks 2-4: 10 reps 1 set 5 reps 1 set
Do you up the weights on the set of 5 so that you can only do five reps with that, or do you keep the weight the same as the set of 10. Im moving my log over today and putting up pictures, which thread do you think i should put it in since Im going to run superdrol for 3-4 weeks?

Keep the weight the same, just do 1 set of 10's and a set of 5's, for 15 total reps with the same weight. We are trying to keep the volume the same througout the cycle, a total of about 15 reps.

Just to confuse you more ....

You could also do more total volume, like 20 reps total, You could 1 set of 20, then 15 +5, then 10 + 10, then 8 + 8 + 5, 5 + 5 + 5, etc. It's really up to you, just keep progression over the entire cycle and try to keep volume the same

 

[Sky9]

Keep the weight the same, just do 1 set of 10's and a set of 5's, for 15 total reps with the same weight. We are trying to keep the volume the same througout the cycle, a total of about 15 reps.

Just to confuse you more ....

You could also do more total volume, like 20 reps total, You could 1 set of 20, then 15 +5, then 10 + 10, then 8 + 8 + 5, 5 + 5 + 5, etc. It's really up to you, just keep progression over the entire cycle and try to keep volume the same

Thanks you for the clarification. I have started a log under the PH section and will be running a three week SnoopterDrawl cycle during this HST cycle. Next week Im starting the 1 set of 10's, 1 set of 5's. I think I will keep the volume at 15 for this cycle. I have been killing myself just doing 15 so far, but it is probably because the rest periods have been so short. Im anticipating that as weight increases my rest periods between sets will too. Thanks again for the advice, please check out my log if you get a chance, I put up some before pics too.

 

[BULK_CITY]

did 2 cycles made some really good gains (added .75'' on my biceps) but added hardly any strength

plus mapping it out (figuring out how much weight to use) is a waste of 2 weeks

 

[CDB]

did 2 cycles made some really good gains (added .75'' on my biceps) but added hardly any strength

plus mapping it out (figuring out how much weight to use) is a waste of 2 weeks

Mapping it out takes five to ten minutes. Finding the rep maxes takes three workouts, which isn't really a sacrifice at all. If you do the clustered version all you really need is your 5rm, so it takes one workout and ten minutes afterward to find the weights to use.

If it's something you plan on doing often, it's worth it to workout a spreadsheet that figures everything out for you. Basically using logic functions in Excel or similar sheets you can achieve a 5-10% increase in weight every workout and have it rounded to the nearest multiple of five or ten I believe, which makes the setup very, very easy.

 

[exnihilo]

Instead of mapping out the percentages, why not find a weight where 15 reps is a difficult the first week, add weight every week (5-10lb), then switch to 10 reps when you can't add any more weight on the 15s, and so forth. The whole mapped out percentages thing is kind of dumb imo, it's more work than needed for progressive loading.

 

[CDB]

Instead of mapping out the percentages, why not find a weight where 15 reps is a difficult the first week, add weight every week (5-10lb), then switch to 10 reps when you can't add any more weight on the 15s, and so forth. The whole mapped out percentages thing is kind of dumb imo, it's more work than needed for progressive loading.

Because it's generally desirable to get a 5-10% increase each time. Starting at the 15rm means you're not starting as low as you could and thus losing some potential for growth. How much if any would vary from person to person of course. Working backward from the rms means you're guaranteed a progression in useful increments to your rm for each microcycle. It also lets you structure the cycle to last 6-8 weeks a lot easier, which is ideal. The research showing a plateauing of results after that period of time is somewhere on the HST site. Figuring out the rm for each microcycle, or at least the rm for the 5s and working back from that, lets you control for both variable, increments and cycle length, a lot easier. I do the latter. Just figure out your 5rm for each exercise, and run backward from that. The reps are really irrelevant, they're just there to provide a framework for keeping track of volume in the end anyway, which is why I do clustering. It's easier and effective for everyone I've had try it.

 

[exnihilo]

Because it's generally desirable to get a 5-10% increase each time. Starting at the 15rm means you're not starting as low as you could and thus losing some potential for growth. How much if any would vary from person to person of course. Working backward from the rms means you're guaranteed a progression in useful increments to your rm for each microcycle. It also lets you structure the cycle to last 6-8 weeks a lot easier, which is ideal. The research showing a plateauing of results after that period of time is somewhere on the HST site. Figuring out the rm for each microcycle, or at least the rm for the 5s and working back from that, lets you control for both variable, increments and cycle length, a lot easier. I do the latter. Just figure out your 5rm for each exercise, and run backward from that. The reps are really irrelevant, they're just there to provide a framework for keeping track of volume in the end anyway, which is why I do clustering. It's easier and effective for everyone I've had try it.

If your 15rm one week is also your 15rm next week, you aren't varying the exercises enough or are working the same exercises too frequently. By not trying to make the best strength gains in all rep ranges you are short changing your growth, the two go hand in hand for the most part - and I know you're going to reply bryan haycock says blah blah blah strength hypertrophy not related blah blah, but I can pretty much guarantee you that the subset of people actually getting results on HST are getting stronger in some if not all of the rep ranges at the same time they are growing. I seriously doubt there are people out there who do the exact same cycle of hst over and over and over and continue getting results.