Whats working for older guys?

[DreamWeaver]

agreed. trt is great. nice dog btw. always been interested in them but im an ab fan.

yah no doctor in the world is going to perscribe me TRT, unless he's a crooked one. lol Then with my HPTA why would I want to... I don't even know what my levels are, I just know I'm as randy as a teenager and feel great most of the time. Herbal products have me very alpha and aggressive. Yah it would be nice to add a little more size, get harder and tighter. I'll keep my eyes and my mind open.

 

[luclyluciano]

How could I have forgotten the Diesel Test! Also Testopro is working like a charm as PCT after a 1t tren cycle.

Anyone try this new HCGenerate? 2-3 times more ingredients they claim and a lot more potent than Testopro.

 

[junkyarddogzz]

I pondered S4, but i'm waiting for more of the clinical trials to be complete. It does seem like the sides disappear after discontinuing, but still discolored vision sounds super scary

Clinical trials are over.

 

[Dutchman]

I did several Epistane 10 Pulse Cycles. Great results, never a problem and honestly, I am not quite sure that I really needed PCT after cycling it.

ON the other hand I finally broke down and saw a doc to see if my Test was still low, usually around 180 to 200, and when they saw it they put me first on Androderm and now on Test Cypionate. After 4 weeks on the TC I have never felt better, I overcame some serious depression, have tons of energy, no ED since I feel like a teenager and now I am starting to feel stronger in the gym as well. I guess I am saying, instead of messing with PHs and I have done many of them, take a quick look with your Doc and see if you qualify for an even better solution.

 

[Knowbull]

Thanks Dutch, good to hear from you. Agreed about the TRT, but for now I just want to enhance and maintain with low dose OTC supps. I want to stay away from TRT as long as possible after having a bad experience with Androderm that was combined with 19-Nordiol. Just wondering whats available OTC thats worth a run.

 

[MEPSE]

mepse , what did you like best ?

Sorry - haven't been on for some time. So far, I like P-Mag the best, and for some reason M-Drol did not do much for me. I was the most anxious to try M1,4ADD, but it didn't do a lot either. Since I tend to use low doses, I might need to up the dose next time on those to see if I get a different result.

 

[MEPSE]

How would one pulse or bridge something like SD, I thought that was hands off for us older guys. How much less suppressive is a pulse? Less sides? Easier on the liver?

DreamWeaver - I was very cautious with the M-Drol due to all the sides that I read about. I pulsed it 3 times per week on workout days, never going above 30 mg if I recall correctly. The only sides I experienced were some minor back pumps, handled with Taurine. I personally feel that I experience no sides (other than M-Drol), less toxicity, and minimal shutdown when I pulse. Just my opinion based on my experience.

 

[hdcontent]

I am 42 and have been on Erase and TCF-1 for 2 weeks already and loving the results so far.

I tried TCF-1 and Sustain Alpha a few months ago with mixed results. For the first 4-5 days I loved the effects on my strength, energy and libido. On the second week for some reason my libido started to drop big time.

Triazole solo worked great also for me.

 

[gymrat827]

NTBM's natrual stuff: HCGenerate, Phytoserms, Bridge are all good. The Mr Supp clones are all good options. But still plain old test is going to be the best if your older. Stack some Test E with helladrol, you will be one happy camper.

 

[woody48]

sorry , newbie question

If you are intersted in the "hard stuff" I can't help you, but if you want to stay natural DAA along with an AI and stinging nettle root is working quite nicely for me.

i know what daa and nettle roots is but what is AI? thanks

 

[Knowbull]

Thanks for all the good responses. How about whats workin in terms of sets, reps, and variations essentially what techniques are getting results for older guys, that arent using TRT or HRT. Im looking for techniques that older weightlifters use to maintain.

 

[willib]

bigest attemtion to me is doms and metabolism lis way slower even,with bcaa and ect.

 

[schwellington]

WHY NOT GET HRT


screw OTC hormones- not a fan here, i find my gains from Injectable AAS are
easier to maintain
less harsh on my body and organs
less harsh in side effects

 

[Knowbull]

WHY NOT GET HRT


screw OTC hormones- not a fan here, i find my gains from Injectable AAS are
easier to maintain
less harsh on my body and organs
less harsh in side effects

I hear you, but Im only 57, tried the test patch years ago and got gyno symptoms.

 

[nemo]

40y/o, high reps been working great for me, 15 and up on everything!!!

 

[Knowbull]

Yeah, high reps have been shown to work well, its all about hypertrophy.

 

[schwellington]

your 57? your a prime choice for HRT sir, and there is things you can take to combat gyno

 

[ambulldog]

im in my young 40's and love love love me some dc training. unlike the younger guys though i keep total reps/set a bit higher. chest for example is 20-25 rp/set

 

[Macc]

i know what daa and nettle roots is but what is AI? thanks

AI == Aromatase Inhibitor, to suppress Estrogen. Most people seem to be using PES's Erase with DAA these days. Some say the AI is not necessary. Other people even say you need PCT after DAA, yet others use DAA as a PCT. Patrick Arnold says you need no AI, no PCT, and you can run DAA as long as you want. Really, I don't know what to think. I've run a cycle with DAA, nettles and Erase, and a cycle of just DAA, and one with DAA and nettles. I think I got some mild effect from DAA. Not sure that the Erase or nettles added anything to that. FYI, there are some people who think that DAA may have brain toxic effects.

 

[Dutchman]

No Bull, KnowBull,
You need to take another look at TRT. I still use my All-Natural, Bio-Identical Progesterone which I get from Vitacost to take care of any gyno. In past years I also used the Epi/Form combo sucessfully and before and during both of these I have always used my old standby of Creatine(Mono)/Beta-Alanine and AAKG. One of the best things I have done for myself is to recognise that I need time to recover and in the Gym I allow as much time as I need till I feel ready to ATTACK the next set, not just do it but to do so aggressively. Overall, I have settled in to an 8 day week and do 4 different splits every other day with a major power exercise at the center of each. That gives me a solid week of recovery between heavy workouts for each bodypart. I haven't felt weak in over a decade since I started treating my body with "timely" respect.

 

[Knowbull]

Thanks Dutch, and everyone else. I see guys my age that have probably never touched a weight or probably even exercised showing signs of sarcopenia. Creatine does work well. High levels of fitness can be maintained at age, but exercise and its application in a manner that befits an aging metabolism have to be used. I cant imagine working a part once a week and getting or maintaining musculature. I have read that a break of more than 48 hrs, diminishes returns. 3x weekly has been my mainstay for decades. Tried a split routine, but really didnt see much of a difference. Dutchman, if youre reading this I was wondering if you could post your routine, a split eod as you mentioned sounds feasible.

 

[Dutchman]

Thanks Dutch, and everyone else. I see guys my age that have probably never touched a weight or probably even exercised showing signs of sarcopenia. Creatine does work well. High levels of fitness can be maintained at age, but exercise and its application in a manner that befits an aging metabolism have to be used. I cant imagine working a part once a week and getting or maintaining musculature. I have read that a break of more than 48 hrs, diminishes returns. 3x weekly has been my mainstay for decades. Tried a split routine, but really didnt see much of a difference. Dutchman, if youre reading this I was wondering if you could post your routine, a split eod as you mentioned sounds feasible.

These are my workouts the last (workout) week including today:
Back/Shoulders
Warmup with a little 15lber doing several sets of 12 for each RC. (Done before every workout)
Pullups: 2 sets of parallel grip and 2 wide grip 20 reps E (each)
Seated Machine Pulldowns: 1X6 E @ 200/220/240
Seated Machine Shoulder Presses 1X8 E @ 100/110/120
Smith Machine Rack Deadlifts: 1X5@ 150/190/240/280/320/370/420, 1 X2 @ 460 (I allow 10lbs for the bar)
Smith Machine Front Shrugs: 2X10 @ 210
" " Rear " 2X10 @ 150

Tris/Bis
Weighted DIPs: Bodyweight 1X25, 45 lbs 1X15, 75 lbs 1X12, 90 lbs, 2X12
Smith Machine Close Grip Triceps Extensions 1X5 @ 150/190/240/260, 1X4 @ 280
EasyBar Skull Crushers 1X8 @ 70/80/90/100, 1X7 @110
DB Pullovers (Elbows in) 5X10 @ 90
Easy Bar Curls 1X8 60/70/80/90
Seated Curls 3X10 @ 35

Legs
Warmup: 3X15 deep knee bends
*****Poppers In: 1X10 @ 170/180/190
*****Poppers Out 1X10 @ 180/190/200
Machine Leg Raises 1X10 @ 110/120/130, 1X7 @140
Machine Leg Curls 1X10 @ 100/110/120
Smith Machine Squats (ATG ie. well below parallel) 1X5 @ 150/190/240/260, 1X4 @280
Machine Toe Raises 3X15 @ 255

Chest
Weighted DIPs: Bodyweight 1X25, 45 lbs 1X15, 75 lbs 1X12, 90 lbs, 2X12 (Lean Forward more)
Bench Press: 1X8 @ 135/185/205, 8X8 @215
Flys: 1X8 @ 50/60/70
DB BP: 1X10 @70/80
Decline BP: 1X8 @ 135/185/225, 1X10 @225 (DIPs and BP simply exhaust me, just like on Arm day!)

Knowbull I know it's not much weight compared to the big young studs around here but it is a solid attempt to build and maintain strength as I enter my 70s in less than 3 months. With my great tan and wearing a string workout shirt I get a ton of questions and admirers so that really cranks up my ego and motivates the heck out of me to do my best. Again though, this takes 1hr 15 to 1hr 30 because of the recovery time I allow myself. Hopes this helps a bit, I think it is the first time I have ever posted my complete workout schedule. Tear it up guys LOL!

 

[Knowbull]

Thanks Dutchman! Please , those poundages are great! It proves the myth of aging. A guy just has to stay with the weights, thats all there is to it.

 

[MacTech]

These are my workouts the last (workout) week including today:
... Tear it up guys LOL!

This is great Dutch, thanks for sharing. You keep inspiring us younger old ****s to stay motivated and be in it for the long haul.

 

[Dead Shark]

These are my workouts the last (workout) week including today:
Tris/Bis
Weighted DIPs: Bodyweight 1X25, 45 lbs 1X15, 75 lbs 1X12, 90 lbs, 2X12


A 69 yr old doing weighted dips?!?!?! I have a new hero.

 

[Knowbull]

Yeah, its a testament to what we can do at any age its a marvel. I think the main point is to keep exercising as much as tolerable. Even with out supps, Experimenting with diet helps too, steamed veggies, raw fruits, meat seem to make a difference, all that processed stuff and heavy carbs really drain energy.

 

[dirtwarrior]

A slim hot 22 yo with big boobs works for me

 

[Knowbull]

A slim hot 22 yo with big boobs works for me

Yes, that will drain energy, but also increase Testoserone. An integral part of regimen.

 

[avsfreak24]

For you guys with experience, what would be a good first time product/stack? I am almost 40, was getting in pretty good shape, but marriage issues and work stress killed my body. I have the horrible addition of about 17-20lbs of fat in the midsection. Basically, the stress had my body producing cortisol chronically for almost two years. I have changed up my routine for now to less intense, higher rep to reduce the cortisol production. I know that hormones have not come back into balance, but I would like to start off with something to help increase mass, once I'm good to go. Basically, I want to burn the fat off, and build as much lean mass as I can while getting rid of the fat. Greatly appreciate your experience and knowledge!

 

[avsfreak24]

I see the posts about higher rep sets! Is that better for us older guys? What is an effective product to block and/or reduce estrogen?

 

[Knowbull]

Yeah, Ive looked around online and reps should be 8-12, sets 2-3, 2-3 times a week. So a guy has to stay with it, its invigorating, if nothing else. Getting huge and staying that way takes a lot of food.

 

[R1balla]

idk if you guys are talking about training, diet, or supps cause i just read the title, but my uncle and my old college roomate's dad, and a friend of mine at my church love IGF 2.

 

[Knowbull]

Doesnt have to be supplements, training, diet, everything that makes aging muscle respond. Exercise is the real key here, as it aids in the secretion of growth hormone and testosterone, burns fat, increases circulation, delays aging. Any pointers are good here. I know theres veteran weight lifters that post here. I know that weight lifting is beneficial, but there are changes in recovery and muscle density as we combat the aging process.

 

[bad rad]

An older lifter should focus on stretching too, as tendons age they become stiffer and less pliable.

 

[MacTech]

I see the posts about higher rep sets! Is that better for us older guys? What is an effective product to block and/or reduce estrogen?

Reduce body fat to lower aromastase enzyme which converts precious testosterone to estrogen. If your hormones are already out of balance, why do you want to introduce a 'stack' to further complicate things?

Lowering intensity to reduce cortisol is not a solution. Exercise induced stress is what causes the body to grow and adapt. Try to reduce your other stresses in life and don't worry about what happens in the gym.

I have found that increased volume and intensity helps me as I get older. If I start slowing down, so will my body in adaption to exercise load.

 

[Knowbull]

Reduce body fat to lower aromastase enzyme which converts precious testosterone to estrogen. If your hormones are already out of balance, why do you want to introduce a 'stack' to further complicate things?

Lowering intensity to reduce cortisol is not a solution. Exercise induced stress is what causes the body to grow and adapt. Try to reduce your other stresses in life and don't worry about what happens in the gym.

I have found that increased volume and intensity helps me as I get older. If I start slowing down, so will my body in adaption to exercise load.

Ive noticed that too, I think maintaining a varied level of intensity utilizing step load periodized training. I simply cant lift heavy all the time. Periodization aids in recovery, overtraining is not a myth.

 

[EasyEJL]

You want to know whats really working well for me? Giving up on anything except BCAAs and a simple mostly stim preworkout, and just concentrating on consistency in diet + workouts. Amazingly without thinking that "i'll lose extra fat with taking x" or "i'll gain more lean mass taking y" and only paying attention to diet + workout i'm doing better. maybe just me. I'm going to reintroduce stuff soon though

 

[Knowbull]

Yeh, thats it, exercise and decent dieting for the sake of it. I take less supplements than before. Concentrating on exercise itself, changing workouts, sets, reps, is valuable. Sure supplements help but the primary focus is on lifting weights in a beneficial and healthy manner.

 

[bad rad]

You want to know whats really working well for me? Giving up on anything except BCAAs and a simple mostly stim preworkout, and just concentrating on consistency in diet + workouts. Amazingly without thinking that "i'll lose extra fat with taking x" or "i'll gain more lean mass taking y" and only paying attention to diet + workout i'm doing better. maybe just me. I'm going to reintroduce stuff soon though

I learned the hard way that my money is better spent on food or protein powder, most supplements aren't worth the money.

 

[EasyEJL]

I learned the hard way that my money is better spent on food or protein powder, most supplements aren't worth the money.

I'm not sure i'd quite say that, but without diet + routine + sleep being consistent, nothing does a whole lot And expecting supplements to be the crutch to make up for poor diet or training surely doesn't work.

 

[bad rad]

I'm not sure i'd quite say that, but without diet + routine + sleep being consistent, nothing does a whole lot And expecting supplements to be the crutch to make up for poor diet or training surely doesn't work.

When I compare results to cost ratio it just isn't worth it. If you have money to spend on something food or creatine should be first on the list. I guess I should quantify my statement, except for the prosteroids and a few AI not much OTC stuff is worth it. Take this and gain 30lbs is pretty much a crock.

 

[avsfreak24]

I am not going to introduce a stack until I am back in balance. I just figured I would get info from those with experience now, so I would have the best info when I am ready.

I have actually found that I can't lower the intensity and be satisfied with my workout. I am doing a little lower weight and longer sets.

I think not worrying about what happens in the gym will help. The not worrying part is what I need to do across the board to lower the other stresses.

Thanks for the advice!

 

[avsfreak24]

what is a good resource to learn about step load periodized training?

 

[Knowbull]

Im using old terminology here eg. step load, periodization. If you google hypertrophic specific training or HST you can find examples of both, but using a 15 rep period is hard on the joints I advise not going over 12-13 reps, its pretty simple you just increase your poundages slightly every 3rd or 4th workout, eventually the weights are increased to the point where you can only do so many reps, at which point you de-load or just take a break.

 

[avsfreak24]

I will research HST. I need to invest in more weights, then!

 

[Knowbull]

Ive found that the smallest plates are the best way to go, theres a "burn-out" factor with step load, periodization, gradual increase is what muscles respond to, particularly without exogenous hormone supplimentation, in my experience anyway. Realistically, our genes say we will only build X amount of muscle that can be kept and maintained, (without androgen supplementation) the goal is to get to our natural genetic potential and stay there as long as possible to delay or postpone senescence.

 

[bad rad]

Ive found that the smallest plates are the best way to go, theres a "burn-out" factor with step load, periodization, gradual increase is what muscles respond to, particularly without exogenous hormone supplimentation, in my experience anyway. Realistically, our genes say we will only build X amount of muscle that can be kept and maintained, (without androgen supplementation) the goal is to get to our natural genetic potential and stay there as long as possible to delay or postpone senescence.

Refering to the "burnout" Russian studies on PLters showed that every 4th week should be a de-load, there are many ways to do it but "light" work is key. If intensity is kept high for too long strength and muscle gains slip backwards. That one of the things I have found to be very true, you just can't max out every week if you're not "supplemented".

 

[HealthBlitz]

Refering to the "burnout" Russian studies on PLters showed that every 4th week should be a de-load, there are many ways to do it but "light" work is key. If intensity is kept high for too long strength and muscle gains slip backwards. That one of the things I have found to be very true, you just can't max out every week if you're not "supplemented".

I know some powerlifters that don't just deload, they take the entire 4th week off from weights. And it seems to work for them!

 

[avsfreak24]

Thanks for the info, knowbull, badrad, and healthblitz. You helped me figure out part of my problem. When I wasn't getting anywhere because of my adrenal issues, I worked harder and watched my diet, meaning cut calories, which probably exacerbated my problem. I am learning a lot! thanks guys

 

[Knowbull]

Your Welcome! Thats what this forum is for, logically everyone should consider anything in a commonsense manner, as there are so many ways to exercise. Gaining and maintaining muscle can be an expensive project, particularly food which is ever increasing in cost, a pound of ground round is close to 5 dollars where Im at, pork isnt much cheaper and a good steak is 10 bucks. Protein powders help, but their hard to digest and costly as well.