What Is The Best Nutrient Partitioning Supplement?

[HurtinPounds]

direct knock of pslin? what?
are you saying i'm mocking pslin or these products are knockoffs of pslin?

I can say that I have not in any way knocked/mocked/etc. pslin, so hopefully this is something else

Look like he meant knockoff... as AP / P-Slin were the first of its kind.

 

[WilteredFire]

Look like he meant knockoff... as AP / P-Slin were the first of its kind.

x2 lol. Dont see why RD would be a knock off of P-slin when theres more servings and more things added into RD compared to p-slin. My 2 cents.

 

[Outstanding]

x2 lol. Dont see why RD would be a knock off of P-slin when theres more servings and more things added into RD compared to p-slin. My 2 cents.

I thought you knew... EVERY effective product produced is a cheap knock-off of something Jacob has already perfected (and another sacred chance for a USP 'rep' to bash the competition)!

 

[JN230]

i like slin sane a lot by the looks of it but also am very intrigued by Need2slin..... looks like more of a cutter though....

 

[adawg4929]

Glycobol was awesome for weight loss, i was using it during a bulk with tons of carbs but kept leaning down, pretty cool.

 

[diezel]

Pslin is my favorite so far, but anabolic pump is a close 2nd

 

[JudgementDay]

i like slin sane a lot by the looks of it but also am very intrigued by Need2slin..... looks like more of a cutter though....

Ya I'm finding Need2slin works as a good cutter, decent pumps and vascularity through the day as well, put not crazy Pumps like P-slin.

Glycobol was worked so so for me and my stomach can't handle Anabolic Pump.

 

[WilteredFire]

Glycobol was awesome for weight loss, i was using it during a bulk with tons of carbs but kept leaning down, pretty cool.

Thanks for the feedback. Its much appreciated. Glycobol definately gets alot of love around here.

A good formulation by the looks of it, hopefully I can test this by the end of the year for myself too

Good job on leaning out whilst taking in lots of Carbs, always good to hear with GDA use.

 

[Z28Luver7777]

Has anyone heard of Cyanidin 3-Glucoside (C3G)? From what i've read it sounds too good to be true but if anyone on here has tried it, I would be very interested in your reaction.

 

[AaronJP1]

Tons of great choice in this category and lot have been mentioned.

I sometimes rotate around between brands as well.

 

[criticalbench]

Has anyone heard of Cyanidin 3-Glucoside (C3G)? From what i've read it sounds too good to be true but if anyone on here has tried it, I would be very interested in your reaction.

Never heard of it, looking that up now.

 

[mcc23]

bump.. C3G is the active ingredient in Indigo.. Popularized by the one and only BIOTEST..It's atleast 2x/serving as these other NP's Lets keep this thread going.. Not about C3G, but the NP's

 

[jerrysiii]

Bump ..

This is a topic I've become very interested in lately. I'm more interest from a lean gaining perspective than cutting. IMO, this is where a good NP will really shine. Also, there are other nutrient partitioning compounds other than GDAs. A few item for discussion:

Have any GDAs been shown to be selective to muscle tissue vs fat? I if recall, this is the main issue Patrick Arnold has with these compounds.
How about some of the other popular OTC compounds (AnaBeta, ArA, Usolic Acid)? Any NP properties to these?

I am going to start experimenting with clen and t3 in very low doses and only dosed on selective days according to my carb/calorie/training schedule. Again, I am not interested in these compounds from fat loss, but for nutrient partitioning. My initial trial will be 12.5mcg t3 twice per week (high calorie days) and 60mcg clen twice per week (low carb days).

Overall my goal is to raise weekly caloric intake (it's already fairly high at 3,300 kcal). Of course the whole idea of the NPs is to shuffle the added nutrients into muscle vs fat.

Anyway, this should give this thread some more items for discussion.

 

[python93]

Are nutrition partitioners used while bulking?
Does it lean you out while on a bulk?

 

[AaronJP1]

Are nutrition partitioners used while bulking?
Does it lean you out while on a bulk?

Coop can elighten you in the slintensity thread.
People seem to be enjoying, anabolic pump, slintensity, SlinSane v2, & SLINshot.

 

[jerrysiii]

Are nutrition partitioners used while bulking?
Does it lean you out while on a bulk?

Glucose Disposal Agents (GDAs) are being miscategorized as nutrient partitioners. Mr. Cooper points out in the other thread that the role of GDAs is to clear glucose from your system without a corresponding rise in insulin. It is unclear if they actually create selective sensitivity in muscle vs fat cells, but so for no evidence show that they do.

The only GDA that has studies backing it as a nutrient partitioner is the over-hyped and over-priced Biotest product. Then again, if it actually works maybe its worth the price. I'm still hoping other options develop.

It seems there is a role for these products in both cutting and lean gains. I'm personally still trying to figure out how to best utilize them for each situation.

 

[python93]

Glucose Disposal Agents (GDAs) are being miscategorized as nutrient partitioners. Mr. Cooper points out in the other thread that the role of GDAs is to clear glucose from your system without a corresponding rise in insulin. It is unclear if they actually create selective sensitivity in muscle vs fat cells, but so for no evidence show that they do.

The only GDA that has studies backing it as a nutrient partitioner is the over-hyped and over-priced Biotest product. Then again, if it actually works maybe its worth the price. I'm still hoping other options develop.

It seems there is a role for these products in both cutting and lean gains. I'm personally still trying to figure out how to best utilize them for each situation.

From what I've read GDA's send glycogen into the muscles instead of them being stored as fat. Correct?

What do nutrient partitioners do?

I'm interested in GDA's if that's what it does.
Are recompadrol, glycobol and slintensity GDA's?

 

[Geoforce]

GDA's are the term that supp nuts and/or the industry has come up for products like recompadrol, glycobol, slintensity, etc yes.

You can read up a lot about Slintensity science right here.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/southland-performance/214889-slintensity-feedback-reviews.html

 

[Geoforce]

Glucose Disposal Agents (GDAs) are being miscategorized as nutrient partitioners. Mr. Cooper points out in the other thread that the role of GDAs is to clear glucose from your system without a corresponding rise in insulin. It is unclear if they actually create selective sensitivity in muscle vs fat cells, but so for no evidence show that they do.

The only GDA that has studies backing it as a nutrient partitioner is the over-hyped and over-priced Biotest product. Then again, if it actually works maybe its worth the price. I'm still hoping other options develop.

It seems there is a role for these products in both cutting and lean gains. I'm personally still trying to figure out how to best utilize them for each situation.

At that price I would just go with anabolics. Running Indigo at the dosage they suggest is akin to having a car payment. And the "results" in people's logs aren't nearly enough imo to warrant a purchase.

 

[jerrysiii]

From what I've read GDA's send glycogen into the muscles instead of them being stored as fat. Correct?

What do nutrient partitioners do?

I'm interested in GDA's if that's what it does.
Are recompadrol, glycobol and slintensity GDA's?

That is what we hope they would do. Unfortunately there is no evidence to show this to be true (that I know of). They clear glucose from our body via various methods. I'd love to hear from some of the reps regarding their products' nutrient partitioning characteristics. I hope there is a product that does as you describe. So far the Biotest product seems to be the only that can claim to be a true nutrient partitioner.

Perhaps the key is to use these in conjunction with nutrient timing. Our muscles are more insulin sensitive at breakfast and more so post workout. GDAs may also be more useful when carb cycling due to heightened sensitivity from low carb days. Of course this is just speculation and someone more knowledgeable may correct me or add more insight.

 

[NLAFounder]

Agmatine Sulfate supplements

Obviously I am going to recommend using our nitric oxide booster SWOLL-N but the reason I say this is because it has 800 mg of Agmatine Sulfate which is a very effective nutrient partitioning supplement. PM me if you are interested in trying a sample.

What Is The Best Nutrient Partitioning Supplement? What vitamins/herbs specifically are best

 

[criticalbench]

Obviously I am going to recommend using our nitric oxide booster SWOLL-N but the reason I say this is because it has 800 mg of Agmatine Sulfate which is a very effective nutrient partitioning supplement. PM me if you are interested in trying a sample.

Lots of supplements use agmatine and most dose it at 1000mg.. if your going to place yours over every other, what other stuff does yours have?

Mike

 

[Irish Cannon]

LG Sciences SLIN was pretty intense. I loved using it for nutrient repartitioning.

Prior to fasted training, I never found anything better than AP.

Keep in mind I haven't been taking supps for over two years. Probably lots of great stuff out there.

 

[PrepNwa23]

LG Sciences SLIN was pretty intense. I loved using it for nutrient repartitioning.

Prior to fasted training, I never found anything better than AP.

Keep in mind I haven't been taking supps for over two years. Probably lots of great stuff out there.

Wow here's an old face on these boards.

 

[MustangManGT]

SSV2 is the shiznit! Either that or just Geronova Na-R-ALA.

 

[domore]

I heard that Omega is coming out with a nutrient partitioner.

 

[NLAFounder]

Lots of supplements use agmatine and most dose it at 1000mg.. if your going to place yours over every other, what other stuff does yours have?

Mike

Each serving of SWOLL-N has a full 800mg of Agmatine Sulfate, 600mg of Nitrates, Citrulline Mallate, and the most powerful/healthy antioxidant on the market pTetroPure. While you are working out the body is in overdrive and releases a higher amount of free radicals in the system and pTetroPure helps prevent oxidation, ultimately promoting a healthier workout.

 

[bioman]

While not marketed as a NP, or proven to be one in numerous studies, I suspect Anabeta is a good one. I get lean with very little effort (diet wise) and often feel hypoglycemic if I take it before a meal. Pumps can be decent as well if timed correctly before a workout.

 

[Wocheezy]

Correct me if I'm wrong but if it had nutrient partitioning effects rather than GDA effects it wouldn't make you go hypo... Would it? Don't get me wrong i love anabeta, its likely my favorite supplement but idk if it necessarily has NP effects. GDA I could see, NP I'm not so sure

 

[AaronJP1]

LG Sciences SLIN was pretty intense. I loved using it for nutrient repartitioning.

Prior to fasted training, I never found anything better than AP.

Keep in mind I haven't been taking supps for over two years. Probably lots of great stuff out there.

Always wanted to try the LG SLIN. Gone now I think.

 

[jerrysiii]

Correct me if I'm wrong but if it had nutrient partitioning effects rather than GDA effects it wouldn't make you go hypo... Would it? Don't get me wrong i love anabeta, its likely my favorite supplement but idk if it necessarily has NP effects. GDA I could see, NP I'm not so sure

I think you have this backwards. GDA -- clears glucose. NP -- selectively targets muscle cells over fat cells. We're hoping there is a GDA that is also an NP. So far I have not seen evidence of this.

 

[Geoforce]

Correct me if I'm wrong but if it had nutrient partitioning effects rather than GDA effects it wouldn't make you go hypo... Would it? Don't get me wrong i love anabeta, its likely my favorite supplement but idk if it necessarily has NP effects. GDA I could see, NP I'm not so sure

People have mentioned partitioning effects with Anabeta, but honestly I have never really bought that. Number one what does partitioning feel like? Number two has Anabeta ever been shown to do that in studies? Seemed to me that was something people made up for the other positive effects of Anabeta.

Don't get me twisted, not bashing the supplement at all it's a huge hit....but I never really knew what people meant when they talked about it partitioning. Probably a catch all term for feeling Anabeta working.

 

[Wocheezy]

I think you have this backwards. GDA -- clears glucose. NP -- selectively targets muscle cells over fat cells. We're hoping there is a GDA that is also an NP. So far I have not seen evidence of this.

I know the difference, which is why I'm saying a GDA could make you go hypo, and I have had this happen before with recompadrol. I was wondering if a NP even has the potential to make you go hypo. Also, wouldn't it be more beneficial if it was a NP but NOT a GDA? Maybe I am confused but wouldn't disposing of glucose be detrimental if a NP was targeting muscle cells rather than fat cells?

 

[jerrysiii]

I know the difference, which is why I'm saying a GDA could make you go hypo, and I have had this happen before with recompadrol. I was wondering if a NP even has the potential to make you go hypo. Also, wouldn't it be more beneficial if it was a NP but NOT a GDA? Maybe I am confused but wouldn't disposing of glucose be detrimental if a NP was targeting muscle cells rather than fat cells?

The idea is to selectively shuttle the glucose from your blood into muscle cells. When you eat a carbohydrate it is either going to:

1) be used directly for energy
2) stored as glycogen in muscle or liver
3) stored as fat

We want one of the first two options.

 

[Torobestia]

People have mentioned partitioning effects with Anabeta, but honestly I have never really bought that. Number one what does partitioning feel like? Number two has Anabeta ever been shown to do that in studies? Seemed to me that was something people made up for the other positive effects of Anabeta.

Don't get me twisted, not bashing the supplement at all it's a huge hit....but I never really knew what people meant when they talked about it partitioning. Probably a catch all term for feeling Anabeta working.

Nutrient repartitioning effects can be dependent on any number of mechanisms. Testosterone has nutrient repartitioning effects in athletes ... you eat the same food, more of it goes to synthesizing lean mass (muscle/glycogen), and fat gets "starved"/catabolized. This isnt' because test sensitizes you to insulin (it might do the opposite, I kind of forgot what I read on this), but because the energy demands of skeletal muscle in those exercising are so increased that nutrients are driven into these cells over fat cells.

It's possible Anabeta does its work by a similar mechanism. I definitely believe it has NP effects considering how eating more leads to an increase in weight but also an increase in definition (presumably a decrease in bf).

 

[dsade]

While the study doesn't analyze effect in 3t3 adipocytes, the conclusion section is quite interesting. Remember, Slintensity introduces to the market the first 80% 4-Hydroxy Isoleucine standardized Extract.
Eur J Nutr. 2012 Oct;51(7):893-8. Epub 2012 May 19.
[h=1]4-Hydroxyisoleucine stimulates glucose uptake by increasing surface GLUT4 level in skeletal muscle cells via phosphatidylinositol-3-kinase-dependent pathway.[/h]Jaiswal N, Maurya CK, Venkateswarlu K, Sukanya P, Srivastava AK, Narender T, Tamrakar AK.
[h=3]Source[/h]Division of Biochemistry, CSIR-Central Drug Research Institute, Lucknow, 226001, India.

[h=3]Abstract[/h][h=4]PURPOSE:[/h]To determine the effect of 4-Hydroxyisoleucine (4-HIL), an unusual amino acid isolated from the seeds of Trigonella foenum-graecum, on glucose uptake and the translocation of glucose transporter 4 (GLUT4) to plasma membrane in skeletal muscle cells and to investigate the underlying mechanisms of action.
[h=4]METHODS:[/h]Rat skeletal muscle cells (L6-GLUT4myc) were treated with 4-HIL, and the effect on glucose uptake was determined by measuring the incorporation of radio-labeled 2-deoxy-[(3)H]-D-glucose (2-DG) into the cell. Translocation of GLUT4myc to plasma membrane was measured by an antibody-coupled colorimetric assay.
[h=4]RESULTS:[/h]The prolonged exposure (16 h) of L6-GLUT4myc myotubes to 4-HIL caused a substantial increase in the 2-DG uptake and GLUT4 translocation to the cell surface, without changing the total amount of GLUT4 and GLUT1. Cycloheximide treatment reversed the effect of 4-HIL on GLUT4 translocation to the basal level suggesting the requirement of new protein synthesis. The 4-HIL-induced increase in GLUT4 translocation was completely abolished by wortmannin, and 4-HIL significantly increased the basal phosphorylation of AKT (Ser-473), but did not change the mRNA expression of AKT, IRS-1, GLUT4, and GSK3β.
[h=4]CONCLUSION:[/h]Results suggest that 4-HIL stimulates glucose uptake in L6-GLUT4myc myotubes by enhancing translocation of GLUT4 to the cell surface in a PI-3-kinase/AKT-dependent mechanism.

PMID:22610671 [PubMed - in process]

 

[Torobestia]

I have some slintensity coming in the mail. I completely forgot to order Na-R-ALA, though. Big fail!

 

[dsade]

Also, see this. I have brought a new angle to the whole GDA/NP approach by incorporating the Momordin standardized Bitter Melon Extract. Momordin has been shown to be a promoter of PPAR-delta activity...

Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 2006 Feb 28;103(9):3444-9. Epub 2006 Feb 21.
[h=1]PPARdelta regulates glucose metabolism and insulin sensitivity.[/h]Lee CH, Olson P, Hevener A, Mehl I, Chong LW, Olefsky JM, Gonzalez FJ, Ham J, Kang H, Peters JM, Evans RM.
[h=3]Source[/h]Department of Genetics and Complex Diseases, Harvard School of Public Health, Boston, MA 02115, USA.

[h=3]Abstract[/h]The metabolic syndrome is a collection of obesity-related disorders. The peroxisome proliferator-activated receptors (PPARs) regulate transcription in response to fatty acids and, as such, are potential therapeutic targets for these diseases. We show that PPARdelta (NR1C2) knockout mice are metabolically less active and glucose-intolerant, whereas receptor activation in db/db mice improves insulin sensitivity. Euglycemic-hyperinsulinemic-clamp experiments further demonstrate that a PPARdelta-specific agonist suppresses hepatic glucose output, increases glucose disposal, and inhibits free fatty acid release from adipocytes. Unexpectedly, gene array and functional analyses suggest that PPARdelta ameliorates hyperglycemia by increasing glucose flux through the pentose phosphate pathway and enhancing fatty acid synthesis. Coupling increased hepatic carbohydrate catabolism with its ability to promote beta-oxidation in muscle allows PPARdelta to regulate metabolic homeostasis and enhance insulin action by complementary effects in distinct tissues. The combined hepatic and peripheral actions of PPARdelta suggest new therapeutic approaches to treat type II diabetes.

PMID:16492734 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
PMCIDMC1413918

 

[jerrysiii]

dsade, the science in the two studies you posted is a little beyond my understanding. Do either suggest selectivity of muscle over fat cells?

 

[dsade]

dsade, the science in the two studies you posted is a little beyond my understanding. Do either suggest selectivity of muscle over fat cells?

The PPARdelta study supports a partitioning effect (rather a metabolic boost in muscle tissue, and increased carbohydrate clearance via liver activity). The first study, as I mentioned, does not do a comparison for selectivity.

 

[criticalbench]

The PPARdelta study supports a partitioning effect (rather a metabolic boost in muscle tissue, and increased carbohydrate clearance via liver activity). The first study, as I mentioned, does not do a comparison for selectivity.

Dos slintensity prevent the absorption of carbs? When i take slin sane, it works great for preventing fat gain, but I can't carb load with it, because I feel it wont let me suck enough up.

Mike

 

[mcc23]

Dos slintensity prevent the absorption of carbs? When i take slin sane, it works great for preventing fat gain, but I can't carb load with it, because I feel it wont let me suck enough up.

Mike

dont say that.. I just bought SSv2 yesterday! Anyways, 2 caps of R-ala seems to give me the feeling that my bodys absorbing all the carbs I throw at it.. Up to a point, of course.

 

[Whacked]

Cool study Dsade - thanks.

I ask this respectfully as I'd just like to get your opinion on this.

General question here: It is my understanding these darn mice studies are SOMEHWHAT (not totally) useless

Seems like mice studies are both utilized AND refuted when convenient.

Thanks D

Also, see this. I have brought a new angle to the whole GDA/NP approach by incorporating the Momordin standardized Bitter Melon Extract. Momordin has been shown to be a promoter of PPAR-delta activity...

Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 2006 Feb 28;103(9):3444-9. Epub 2006 Feb 21.
PPARdelta regulates glucose metabolism and insulin sensitivity.

Lee CH, Olson P, Hevener A, Mehl I, Chong LW, Olefsky JM, Gonzalez FJ, Ham J, Kang H, Peters JM, Evans RM.
Source

Department of Genetics and Complex Diseases, Harvard School of Public Health, Boston, MA 02115, USA.

Abstract

The metabolic syndrome is a collection of obesity-related disorders. The peroxisome proliferator-activated receptors (PPARs) regulate transcription in response to fatty acids and, as such, are potential therapeutic targets for these diseases. We show that PPARdelta (NR1C2) knockout mice are metabolically less active and glucose-intolerant, whereas receptor activation in db/db mice improves insulin sensitivity. Euglycemic-hyperinsulinemic-clamp experiments further demonstrate that a PPARdelta-specific agonist suppresses hepatic glucose output, increases glucose disposal, and inhibits free fatty acid release from adipocytes. Unexpectedly, gene array and functional analyses suggest that PPARdelta ameliorates hyperglycemia by increasing glucose flux through the pentose phosphate pathway and enhancing fatty acid synthesis. Coupling increased hepatic carbohydrate catabolism with its ability to promote beta-oxidation in muscle allows PPARdelta to regulate metabolic homeostasis and enhance insulin action by complementary effects in distinct tissues. The combined hepatic and peripheral actions of PPARdelta suggest new therapeutic approaches to treat type II diabetes.

PMID:16492734 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
PMCIDMC1413918

 

[PrepNwa23]

Ingredients in Slintensity has my interest peaked for sure with the more I read on the 4-OH. And I've always liked Gymnema Sylvestre when used in other products. For sure have a win here Matt as always.

 

[Geoforce]

Cool study Dsade - thanks.

I ask this respectfully as I'd just like to get your opinion on this.

General question here: It is my understanding these darn mice studies are SOMEHWHAT (not totally) useless

Seems like mice studies are both utilized AND refuted when convenient.

Thanks D

http://ec.europa.eu/research/health/pdf/summary-report-25082010_en.pdf

From ursolic acid to anabeta and tons of others it's mice studies that bring new products to the market. By no means is it a perfect setup, but a necessary one for a myriad of reasons I'm sure you're aware of. Based on feedback, mice or human, Slintensity seems to be doing a ton of great things. Honestly we haven't seen any negative feedback throughout all our boards yet and we haven't had a single log. These are all customers who weren't swayed with free product, but people who bought it with their own money.

 

[bioman]

You mean that bodybuilders would NOT appreciate being locked in a terrarium, having their diet tightly controlled, blood taken at all hours of the day and night and then ultimately euthanized and dissected?

I dunno, I'd be OK with saving some mice and experimenting on some of the less constructive board members here...but I'm not a MOD any more. lol

http://ec.europa.eu/research/health/pdf/summary-report-25082010_en.pdf

From ursolic acid to anabeta and tons of others it's mice studies that bring new products to the market. By no means is it a perfect setup, but a necessary one for a myriad of reasons I'm sure you're aware of. Based on feedback, mice or human, Slintensity seems to be doing a ton of great things. Honestly we haven't seen any negative feedback throughout all our boards yet and we haven't had a single log. These are all customers who weren't swayed with free product, but people who bought it with their own money.

 

[Whacked]

Sup Geo

Yeah yeah, I was already well-aware. My point is this:

People often cite mice studies to support their cause and then just as easily dismiss it when they want to challenge a product.

I am not referring to Dsade here. Just IN GENERAL. We can't have it both ways.

And truth be told, the vast majority of mice studies do NOT cross over successfully into the human realm results-wise.

http://ec.europa.eu/research/health/pdf/summary-report-25082010_en.pdf

From ursolic acid to anabeta and tons of others it's mice studies that bring new products to the market. By no means is it a perfect setup, but a necessary one for a myriad of reasons I'm sure you're aware of. Based on feedback, mice or human, Slintensity seems to be doing a ton of great things. Honestly we haven't seen any negative feedback throughout all our boards yet and we haven't had a single log. These are all customers who weren't swayed with free product, but people who bought it with their own money.

 

[dsade]

The studies on Glut4 specific actions generally use transgenic mice, expressing human GLUT4.

 

[bdcc]

I was looking forward to the live logs from beta testers from the board.

Blake didn't even send me any!

 

[Geoforce]

Sup Geo

Yeah yeah, I was already well-aware. My point is this:

People often cite mice studies to support their cause and then just as easily dismiss it when they want to challenge a product.

I am not referring to Dsade here. Just IN GENERAL. We can't have it both ways.

And truth be told, the vast majority of mice studies do NOT cross over successfully into the human realm results-wise.

Not always, but sometimes certainly. If you look at any of the recent "hit" supplements of the last 4 years almost every single one of them with a novel ingredient came from what was seen in a mice study. Anabeta's ingredient didn't have anything going for it other than what it was shown to do in mice. Same with ursolic acid and the list could go on indefinitely. Tis the nature of the beast.

I've been the exact same as you and know exactly what you mean my man. The fact is most supplements have few human studies behind them. And the ones that do are all after it has been shown to do stuff in rodent models, then been experimented with and shown real world results, then human studies. Which it could work the other way, but we all know the reasons it can't.