Trans guy lookin for AI advice

[Scrappy82]

I am trans (born female, physically transitioned to male).

I am on .5ml of test cyp/week which puts me around 1100 total test. Been on cyp for ten years and will continue through cycle (and post and...forever).

Planning an Andro 1 & 4 cycle 330mg each for 8 weeks for my first real cycle(once I get everything nailed down.) Plan to take Ar1macare Pro for the duration of the cycle as well as multis, fish oil, joint support, all the food and all the water. And lifting all the weights of course.

Not concerned with shutdown obvs, but I am thinking about the need for an AI on cycle and/or post cycle. I do have a little extra test lying around that I could use post, if that makes sense at all.

Interested in any theoretical advice here about what/how to use an AI in this case and how to know if I need it based on symptoms. (Docs don’t test estrogen as the numbers just don’t make sense for guys like me, so I’ve been told). I know this is a special case so just looking for other opinions/ideas to help me think through what makes sense here. Especially interested in any other FTMs with such experience, but any intelligent input is appreciated.

Thanks in advance for your constructive replies. (Save the hateration, please)

 

[210LBS]

This is tough because I don't know what the side effects would be in this specific scenario. I don't think you would have any issue running the 1-andro and testosterone together though. The 4-andro might be a waste because it's a test conversion anyway, which you already have covered.

I'm not sure why you would think you would need an AI for this cycle. Are you worried about increased estrogen? 1-andro shouldn't have any estrogen conversion, so I don't think it would be an issue. Many of the guys on here run an AI on test because it can aromatize.

To be honest, I'm not really sure how these hormones work in your specific case. But anecdotally, I don't see why you would need an AI for this cycle if you're not currently using one.

 

[2kvette]

I am trans (born female, physically transitioned to male).

I am on .5ml of test cyp/week which puts me around 1100 total test. Been on cyp for ten years and will continue through cycle (and post and...forever).

Planning an Andro 1 & 4 cycle 330mg each for 8 weeks for my first real cycle(once I get everything nailed down.) Plan to take Ar1macare Pro for the duration of the cycle as well as multis, fish oil, joint support, all the food and all the water. And lifting all the weights of course.

Not concerned with shutdown obvs, but I am thinking about the need for an AI on cycle and/or post cycle. I do have a little extra test lying around that I could use post, if that makes sense at all.

Interested in any theoretical advice here about what/how to use an AI in this case and how to know if I need it based on symptoms. (Docs don’t test estrogen as the numbers just don’t make sense for guys like me, so I’ve been told). I know this is a special case so just looking for other opinions/ideas to help me think through what makes sense here. Especially interested in any other FTMs with such experience, but any intelligent input is appreciated.

Thanks in advance for your constructive replies. (Save the hateration, please)

Pharm student here, research focus in androgens and anabolic agents, probably gonna end up in some endocrinology setting.

(Yes, I voted Trump, but no hate at all. Just wanted to say that cuz as a side note I was always told as a christian that your not supposed to do that kind of stuff but I've read studies where there were MRI's of trans peoples brains showing them responding identically as a CIS person would. So i'm conflicted in my head because medically I have evidence to show this really may be something. In the end, I decided this is America and you can do whatever you want.)

Anyway, I'm guessing this far into your HRT you're post bilateral mastectomy. From my understanding, the tissue that would respond to the estradiol is no longer present, so no real worries there. You may get some nip sensitivity, but I doubt it at those doses. Androgens down regulate the estrogen receptor, so they cause it to get essentially eaten by the cell. So there are less estrogen receptors available for any converted estradiol to bind to, we call this functional antagonism. The more effective thing to do would be to add epiandro in at 300mg a day. It's a DHT precursor, DHT is the most effective agent available to take advantage of the functional antagonist effect of androgens on the estrogen receptor. In addition to this, it is probably the most effective andro around honestly. Best part is, it will really harden you up, DHT has 10x the androgenic(secondary sex characteristic) gene expression properties of testosterone. This would blow you away in my opinion. 300mg of epiandro a day is like a low dose of masteron.

Also, i've never understood why a lot of FTM's didnt realize everything they needed to transition could be bought OTC. Literally(ATD/Arimistane,4-andro, 1-andro). you should spread the word to other FTM's.

 

[Scrappy82]

Pharm student here, research focus in androgens and anabolic agents, probably gonna end up in some endocrinology setting.

(Yes, I voted Trump, but no hate at all. Just wanted to say that cuz as a side note I was always told as a christian that your not supposed to do that kind of stuff but I've read studies where there were MRI's of trans peoples brains showing them responding identically as a CIS person would. So i'm conflicted in my head because medically I have evidence to show this really may be something. In the end, I decided this is America and you can do whatever you want.)

Anyway, I'm guessing this far into your HRT you're post bilateral mastectomy. From my understanding, the tissue that would respond to the estradiol is no longer present, so no real worries there. You may get some nip sensitivity, but I doubt it at those doses. Androgens down regulate the estrogen receptor, so they cause it to get essentially eaten by the cell. So there are less estrogen receptors available for any converted estradiol to bind to, we call this functional antagonism. The more effective thing to do would be to add epiandro in at 300mg a day. It's a DHT precursor, DHT is the most effective agent available to take advantage of the functional antagonist effect of androgens on the estrogen receptor. In addition to this, it is probably the most effective andro around honestly. Best part is, it will really harden you up, DHT has 10x the androgenic(secondary sex characteristic) gene expression properties of testosterone. This would blow you away in my opinion. 300mg of epiandro a day is like a low dose of masteron.

Also, i've never understood why a lot of FTM's didnt realize everything they needed to transition could be bought OTC. Literally(ATD/Arimistane,4-andro, 1-andro). you should spread the word to other FTM's.

I appreciate the science. Thanks for the thoughtful response. Are you suggesting running epi alone or adding it to the 1 & 4? My concern with epi was hair loss. I tripled my T dose for several weeks “just to see” and lost so much hair (already an issue but made worse) and I’m concerned the epi will really exacerbate that.
Anyway, lots to think about. Thanks.

 

[Scrappy82]

This is tough because I don't know what the side effects would be in this specific scenario. I don't think you would have any issue running the 1-andro and testosterone together though. The 4-andro might be a waste because it's a test conversion anyway, which you already have covered.

I'm not sure why you would think you would need an AI for this cycle. Are you worried about increased estrogen? 1-andro shouldn't have any estrogen conversion, so I don't think it would be an issue. Many of the guys on here run an AI on test because it can aromatize.

To be honest, I'm not really sure how these hormones work in your specific case. But anecdotally, I don't see why you would need an AI for this cycle if you're not currently using one.

Yeah, it’s tough, trying to really understand how things work and then how that translates and applies to my body. Thanks for giving it a go.

Yes, my concern is the 4 aromatizing.

Forgive me if I sound dumb af, but I don’t understand why my baseline level of test could sub for the 4 andro.

Anyway, thanks for the response.

 

[2kvette]

I appreciate the science. Thanks for the thoughtful response. Are you suggesting running epi alone or adding it to the 1 & 4? My concern with epi was hair loss. I tripled my T dose for several weeks “just to see” and lost so much hair (already an issue but made worse) and I’m concerned the epi will really exacerbate that.
Anyway, lots to think about. Thanks.

I was saying add it. But since your carrying DHT sensitive genes, it probably won’t be nice to your hair line. Up to you then if you wanna roll the dice and see. You can add anything to your test dose. Do not drop your test at all. Your body should handle anything the exact same way as the genetic men would.

 

[210LBS]

Yeah, it’s tough, trying to really understand how things work and then how that translates and applies to my body. Thanks for giving it a go.

Yes, my concern is the 4 aromatizing.

Forgive me if I sound dumb af, but I don’t understand why my baseline level of test could sub for the 4 andro.

Anyway, thanks for the response.

You can use the 4-andro in addition to the test, but most guys would just opt for the test. 4-andro converts into test, so the test is going to be stronger.

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

I see no reason to post cycle.. you will not be stopping your test, so you wont need to worry about a post cycle therapy.

 

[Cgkone]

You can use the 4-andro in addition to the test, but most guys would just opt for the test. 4-andro converts into test, so the test is going to be stronger.

Would the 4 andro even be necessary?
Test levels should be cool right?
1 andro epiandro and continue on TRT

 

[Cgkone]

Yeah, it’s tough, trying to really understand how things work and then how that translates and applies to my body. Thanks for giving it a go.

Yes, my concern is the 4 aromatizing.

Forgive me if I sound dumb af, but I don’t understand why my baseline level of test could sub for the 4 andro.

Anyway, thanks for the response.

We use 4 andro to convert to test when we take drugs that suppress our natural test production.
Test injections from a doctor (TRT)
Which you've been on for years makes 4 andro un necessary.
If dry lean gains is your desired goal then Epiandro/ 1 andro will be all you need..
You can skip the 4 andro

 

[Cgkone]

You can use the 4-andro in addition to the test, but most guys would just opt for the test. 4-andro converts into test, so the test is going to be stronger.

Whoops that's what your saying
Gotcha

 

[Cgkone]

So just being on test has beat up your hair?
Well welcome to the club.
You can shave your head like most of us.
OR choose drugs that are easier on the hair.

 

[Scrappy82]

So just being on test has beat up your hair?
Well welcome to the club.
You can shave your head like most of us.
OR choose drugs that are easier on the hair.

Yeah, just basic level of test has me receding/thinning quite a bit. I actually recently shaved my head, tryna *own it*. I wasn’t ready! Haha.

 

[Scrappy82]

We use 4 andro to convert to test when we take drugs that suppress our natural test production.
Test injections from a doctor (TRT)
Which you've been on for years makes 4 andro un necessary.
If dry lean gains is your desired goal then Epiandro/ 1 andro will be all you need..
You can skip the 4 andro

Yeah, I get that. I guess I just assumed the “test base” was putting you above your baseline for an added boost.

 

[210LBS]

Yeah, I get that. I guess I just assumed the “test base” was putting you above your baseline for an added boost.

It might. Just don't expect too much from the 4-andro. The 1-andro will be doing the heavy lifting. Many people just use the 4-andro as a test base just to fight off lethargy and such. But you already have test, so it wouldn't be necessary for someone in your situation. That doesn't mean it might not help or give you some gains - just not as much as you might have been expecting.

 

[Cgkone]

You can just bump up the real test make it a test only cycle

 

[Scrappy82]

It might. Just don't expect too much from the 4-andro. The 1-andro will be doing the heavy lifting. Many people just use the 4-andro as a test base just to fight off lethargy and such. But you already have test, so it wouldn't be necessary for someone in your situation. That doesn't mean it might not help or give you some gains - just not as much as you might have been expecting.

Got it. That’s helpful. Thanks a lot.

 

[Scrappy82]

Thanks for all the advice guys! Much appreciated.

So, sounds like the consensus is cut the 4 andro and just run the 1 andro along with my normal test of .5cc/week. (Too bad I already bought the 4andro. Anybody wanna trade?

Sounds like an AI doesn’t seem necessary, which makes sense esp if I’m ditching the 4.

Wish I could add the Epi andro but think I’ll stay away because...well...hair.

Open to any other input.

Thanks again, everyone.

 

[2kvette]

Thanks for all the advice guys! Much appreciated.

So, sounds like the consensus is cut the 4 andro and just run the 1 andro along with my normal test of .5cc/week. (Too bad I already bought the 4andro. Anybody wanna trade?

Sounds like an AI doesn’t seem necessary, which makes sense esp if I’m ditching the 4.

Wish I could add the Epi andro but think I’ll stay away because...well...hair.

Open to any other input.

Thanks again, everyone.

I think you would be blown away by anavar if your open to it. 20mg Var and 100mg of test will be perfecttttt

 

[ericos_bob]

Run a compound which isn't known for hair loss.
https://tophairlosstreatments.com/prevent-hair-loss-steroids/
There are products you can use alongside your cycle to minimize hair loss.

 

[brofessorx]

Seems like all these newbs up in here makings suggestions with out knowing the basics:

Age?
Weight/height?
Diet?
Years lifting?
And most importantly, GOALS? (aside from becoming a dude)

Once all these are known, the a.m. community could make better suggestions based off this info.

I think everyone got caught up with your sex stuff.