little help guys, also there's some good stuff in here: 1-AD/4-derm transdermal stack

[gettin' big]

first prohormone cycle, lots of good stuff in here guys, but still need a little help

Alright guys here's the deal, listen I know this is a long post, but I'm really serious about this stuff, and really would like you guys to take a look at it, even if you cant help me I've done a ton of research and have found some great stuff.

I've worked out for a year or so with just creatine and protein am 22 and ready to make the next jump. I have purchased a bottle of ergopharms 1-Ad got it in the mail and cant wait to start. I am 5' 11' 200lbs. and am going to shed about 7 pounds of fat or so before I start this cycle But I want to make sure everything is in order first. Here is what I am planning on doing. Any advice would be great as this will be my first time. I cant wait to make huge gains.

Note I have done about 30 hours of research no joke, all over the internet before making a post, so I've been taking this really seriously and taking notes.

I will take 1,000mg of milk thistle a day for one week before the start of the cycle, and then stop during cycle and finish off the bottle after cycle. I will also do the same with saw palmetto to be nice to my prostate but am not sure on the dose(mgs)?

I will start with 2 pills 1-ad a day 100mg each, for a couple days just to let my body adjust, and also 1 spray a day of the 4-dermabolic transdermal (4-ad), here is another area that I am unsure of and it would be great it anyone could give advice, I read very conflicting info regarding the transdermals. Now I am under the impression that because there is 6grams of 4-Ad in the 4-derm bottle that you do the math equation like this 6000mg in the bottle/120 ml (4 fl oz.)=50mg x 2 because 2ml come out in one spray thus, 100mg per day, which correct me if I'm wrong is the equivalent to 300mg of oral 4-ad, so this is why I would start with one spray a day, then move up to two a day and possibly top out at 3. Most likely would only like to go with 2 a day because if my calculation is correct this= 600mg of the oral. I will bump the 1-ad (oral) up gradually to 600 mg a day by the end of the week taking 200 mg is 8 hour intervals throughout the day. I want to bump both up slowly gradually due to the fact taht my body has never experienced prohormone use. On a couple sites I have heard guys saying that they plan on taking 5 sprays of t4-ad spray a day and that only = 200 mgs for the day, so this is very conflicting and would like to know the deal. I will run out of the 4-ad oral quickly once I hit 600mgs a day because I only have one bottle so when it runs out I will use the dermabolics big 1-t transdermal. Okay here goes again please help me on this when I run out of the 4-ad I would immediately begin the 1-t transdermal at 200 mg a day, which would be 2 sprays a day and maintain the two sprays a day with the 4-derm as well. I saw the math that 200mg of transdermal of the dermabolics brand 1-t (2 sprays)=650mg of the oral 1-ad cause the trasndermal is more potent. I would end the cycle after 30 days, and then have approx half a bottle of the 1-T transdermal left, but obviously the 4-ad transdermal and the 1-ad oral would be gone

During all of this I will be taking a multivitamin and 300 grams of whey protein a day. Heard that when on a stack like this you want 1.5 grams of protein a day for every pound you weigh because you body will thrive on the extra protein.

I knowt that 1-Ad can convert to DHT through an unknown pathway. Although I dont have the genetic hairloss gene on my mothes side I want to play it safe to keep all side to minimum. I found a great post on a very reputable site that lanoline is a wax that is found wool of sheep and has great natural benefits on healthy hair. It is said that the old shepards had amazingly healthy hair from all the contact wtih the sheep and that the lanoline was the cause, so I will buy lanoline shampoo and condictioner that I found after a good amout of searching at lanocreme.com they are 10 bucks each. The most repuatble body buliding site refered to lanoline as the best natural way to fight even the smallest amounts of hairloss from prohormone use. the shampoo and conditioner are 10 bucks each, not bad

PCT: plan on taking 600 mgs of 6-oxo broken up 3 times (every 8 hours at 200mgs every 8 hours), also read on the most reputable body building site, I believe it was posted by big cat, that right after you come off the prohormones it helps to shock your endocrine system by taking ice cold showers, so I will do this as well

 

[gettin' big]

Alright guys here's the deal, listen I know this is a long post, but I'm really serious about this stuff, and really would like you guys to take a look at it, even if you cant help me I've done a ton of research and have found some great stuff.

I've worked out for a year or so with just creatine and protein am 22 and ready to make the next jump. I have purchased a bottle of ergopharms 1-Ad got it in the mail and cant wait to start. I am 5' 11' 200lbs. and am going to shed about 7 pounds of fat or so before I start this cycle But I want to make sure everything is in order first. Here is what I am planning on doing. Any advice would be great as this will be my first time. I cant wait to make huge gains.

Note I have done about 30 hours of research no joke, all over the internet before making a post, so I've been taking this really seriously and taking notes.

I will take 1,000mg of milk thistle a day for one week before the start of the cycle, and then stop during cycle and finish off the bottle after cycle. I will also do the same with saw palmetto to be nice to my prostate but am not sure on the dose(mgs)?

I will start with 2 pills 1-ad a day 100mg each, for a couple days just to let my body adjust, and also 1 spray a day of the 4-dermabolic transdermal (4-ad), here is another area that I am unsure of and it would be great it anyone could give advice, I read very conflicting info regarding the transdermals. Now I am under the impression that because there is 6grams of 4-Ad in the 4-derm bottle that you do the math equation like this 6000mg in the bottle/120 ml (4 fl oz.)=50mg x 2 because 2ml come out in one spray thus, 100mg per day, which correct me if I'm wrong is the equivalent to 300mg of oral 4-ad, so this is why I would start with one spray a day, then move up to two a day and possibly top out at 3. Most likely would only like to go with 2 a day because if my calculation is correct this= 600mg of the oral. I will bump the 1-ad (oral) up gradually to 600 mg a day by the end of the week taking 200 mg is 8 hour intervals throughout the day. I want to bump both up slowly gradually due to the fact taht my body has never experienced prohormone use. On a couple sites I have heard guys saying that they plan on taking 5 sprays of t4-ad spray a day and that only = 200 mgs for the day, so this is very conflicting and would like to know the deal. I will run out of the 4-ad oral quickly once I hit 600mgs a day because I only have one bottle so when it runs out I will use the dermabolics big 1-t transdermal. Okay here goes again please help me on this when I run out of the 4-ad I would immediately begin the 1-t transdermal at 200 mg a day, which would be 2 sprays a day and maintain the two sprays a day with the 4-derm as well. I saw the math that 200mg of transdermal of the dermabolics brand 1-t (2 sprays)=650mg of the oral 1-ad cause the trasndermal is more potent. I would end the cycle after 30 days, and then have approx half a bottle of the 1-T transdermal left, but obviously the 4-ad transdermal and the 1-ad oral would be gone

During all of this I will be taking a multivitamin and 300 grams of whey protein a day. Heard that when on a stack like this you want 1.5 grams of protein a day for every pound you weigh because you body will thrive on the extra protein.

I knowt that 1-Ad can convert to DHT through an unknown pathway. Although I dont have the genetic hairloss gene on my mothes side I want to play it safe to keep all side to minimum. I found a great post on a very reputable site that lanoline is a wax that is found wool of sheep and has great natural benefits on healthy hair. It is said that the old shepards had amazingly healthy hair from all the contact wtih the sheep and that the lanoline was the cause, so I will buy lanoline shampoo and condictioner that I found after a good amout of searching at lanocreme.com they are 10 bucks each. The most repuatble body buliding site refered to lanoline as the best natural way to fight even the smallest amounts of hairloss from prohormone use. the shampoo and conditioner are 10 bucks each, not bad

PCT: plan on taking 600 mgs of 6-oxo broken up 3 times (every 8 hours at 200mgs every 8 hours), also read on the most reputable body building site, I believe it was posted by big cat, that right after you come off the prohormones it helps to shock your endocrine system by taking ice cold showers, so I will do this as well

 

[Beowulf]

Posting the same thread in multiple sub-forums is a quick way to get flamed back to bb.com

 

[Grassroots082]

Re: first prohormone cycle, lots of good stuff in here guys, but still need a little

I knowt that 1-Ad can convert to DHT through an unknown pathway. Although I dont have the genetic hairloss gene on my mothes side I want to play it safe to keep all side to minimum. I found a great post on a very reputable site that lanoline is a wax that is found wool of sheep and has great natural benefits on healthy hair. It is said that the old shepards had amazingly healthy hair from all the contact wtih the sheep and that the lanoline was the cause, so I will buy lanoline shampoo and condictioner that I found after a good amout of searching at lanocreme.com they are 10 bucks each. The most repuatble body buliding site refered to lanoline as the best natural way to fight even the smallest amounts of hairloss from prohormone use. the shampoo and conditioner are 10 bucks each, not bad

With that being said, people (companies) say alot of things to get you to buy their product. I don't know what the **** lanoline is, but I would say Nizoral 2% would be the best thing for on cycle hair loss.

What you need to do is research 30 hours on your diet, because 300g whey protein a day is a joke. Spend a couple hours on the board per day for over a year, not 3 - 4 weeks. Im assuming that you have plateau'd in all your lifts right

Your going to run this cycle, gain 7-8 lbs after PCT and then gradually lose it because you don't have the correct diet plan. How do I know this? Because its what happened to me Some have to learn the hard way.

 

[gettin' big]

sorry man, I saw those sections first and didnt realize, I'm new to the site, give me a break

 

[ottomaddox]

Re: first prohormone cycle, lots of good stuff in here guys, but still need a little help

Wow, that's a funny story.:rofl:

 

[Beowulf]

I'm just letting you know what you can expect.

 

[idunk42]

Re: first prohormone cycle, lots of good stuff in here guys, but still need a little help

It is said that the old shepards had amazingly healthy hair from all the contact wtih the sheep and that the lanoline was the cause, so I will buy lanoline shampoo and condictioner that I found after a good amout of searching at lanocreme.com they are 10 bucks each.

"Lanoline.........Lanoline??? Like sheeps wool?" :icon_lol: :icon_lol:

That makes me think of Anchorman. Oh that **** is funny! (sorry for the highjack, but its starting to get late and I think im losing it)

 

[Werewolf]

While Milk thistle is good for you to take at any time, neither 1-AD or 4AD are hard on your liver. For Saw palmento, I just take a pill a day at 580 mg.

Don't know where you getting a sprayer that pumps out 2 ml. My is about 4/5 ml. When you get 600 mg of 1-AD a day you will want to be drinking lots of water or you might get some burning feeling when you piss. I have done 800 mg and speak from experience

I used to 200mg of 4 AD transdermal Twice a day. You can definitely start low and bring it slowly up as you suppress the natural testosrone levels to keep your libido going and so you don't feel tired. Your muscle gains will mainly come from the 1-AD. 1-AD should be taken with a little fat (helps absorb it) and a lot of protien. The whey protein release curve and the 1-AD release curve are good matches. That said, I like about 1/3 casein protein added in my whey protein shakes for a longer release (Not needed for 1-AD).

You should spend some time in PCT section. You need to taper off of 6-OXO to prevent estrogen rebound. Adding 50 mg of Rebound XT to 200 mg 6-OXO is better. Taper off the 6-OXO first. I also like to taper on to prevent severe estrogen suppression problems, but that is less important. IF do go with 600mg of 6-OXO then tapering on is recommended. ActiveTE is good product to research. A good quality PCT is very important for someone your age. Again you should spend some time in PCT section learning. Rebound XT is best split on doses, but 6-OXO is taken together in evening.

 

[Beowulf]

Just in case you missed it in the Supp forum:

Dude, I hate to break it to you, but there are some serious flaws in your plan.

1st: 1 spray of Dermabolics 4AD is about 40mg. 5 sprays=200mg. you should gather this from looking at the bottle. 400mg/day is a decent dose. At this rate, your 4AD will last 15 days. You can try dosing a little lower to stretch it out a bit, but you're not going to get more than 20 days out of it. Even that is stretching it.

2nd: 1AD converts to 1Test. I've never used 1Test, but it is supposed to be quite androgenic, so you probably don't want to double up on these compounds on your first cycle. When the 4derm runs out, you may have to deal with a limp noodle. It depends on the individual. i think some people have said 1AD/1Test boosted their libido. Some definitely lose it.

3rd: If the most reputable site on the net is Bodybuilding.com I'm gonna piss my pants laughing and my wife will kick my ass for staining the couch.

4th: Big Cat is a smart guy but much of his advice is questionable. I've read his info on lanoline, but never bothered to follow up b/c he said the lanoline will stain your pillows. Plus, you can just get spiro from a board sponsor. It will be much more effective. If you don't have a family history of hair loss, you probably have nothing to worry about. You might be fine with just Nizoral shampoo. Search for hair loss prevention and you'll come to a thread by Big Vrunga with a link to a place to buy Nizoral 2%. Make sure you check the dates on those articles, b/c this industry moves very quickly. Which leads to the following...

5th: 6oxo is obsolete. Rebound XT or Anabolic Xtreme PCT are much better options if you must go OTC. You really should have Nolvadex on hand. It is not hard to find. The chemical name is tamoxifen citrate.

6th: Don't get all your protein from powder, and certainly not whey. Just use it pre/post workout. Focus on cottage cheese, fish, chicken, beef, human, etc.

7th: You don't need Milk Thistle b/c you're not using any methyls

8th: I believe you that you have done a lot of reading, but you need to do more. This stuff is all pretty elementary. I spent at least 1 year reading before I took anything. Your research should encompass more than just PH reading. Diet and training are essential to a successful cycle, and even more importantly, to successful retention.

 

[idunk42]

:goodpost:

Just in case you missed it in the Supp forum:

Dude, I hate to break it to you, but there are some serious flaws in your plan.

1st: 1 spray of Dermabolics 4AD is about 40mg. 5 sprays=200mg. you should gather this from looking at the bottle. 400mg/day is a decent dose. At this rate, your 4AD will last 15 days. You can try dosing a little lower to stretch it out a bit, but you're not going to get more than 20 days out of it. Even that is stretching it.

2nd: 1AD converts to 1Test. I've never used 1Test, but it is supposed to be quite androgenic, so you probably don't want to double up on these compounds on your first cycle. When the 4derm runs out, you may have to deal with a limp noodle. It depends on the individual. i think some people have said 1AD/1Test boosted their libido. Some definitely lose it.

3rd: If the most reputable site on the net is Bodybuilding.com I'm gonna piss my pants laughing and my wife will kick my ass for staining the couch.

4th: Big Cat is a smart guy but much of his advice is questionable. I've read his info on lanoline, but never bothered to follow up b/c he said the lanoline will stain your pillows. Plus, you can just get spiro from a board sponsor. It will be much more effective. If you don't have a family history of hair loss, you probably have nothing to worry about. You might be fine with just Nizoral shampoo. Search for hair loss prevention and you'll come to a thread by Big Vrunga with a link to a place to buy Nizoral 2%. Make sure you check the dates on those articles, b/c this industry moves very quickly. Which leads to the following...

5th: 6oxo is obsolete. Rebound XT or Anabolic Xtreme PCT are much better options if you must go OTC. You really should have Nolvadex on hand. It is not hard to find. The chemical name is tamoxifen citrate.

6th: Don't get all your protein from powder, and certainly not whey. Just use it pre/post workout. Focus on cottage cheese, fish, chicken, beef, human, etc.

7th: You don't need Milk Thistle b/c you're not using any methyls

8th: I believe you that you have done a lot of reading, but you need to do more. This stuff is all pretty elementary. I spent at least 1 year reading before I took anything. Your research should encompass more than just PH reading. Diet and training are essential to a successful cycle, and even more importantly, to successful retention.

 

[Matthew D]

Please next time, just post the whole thing ONCE Gettin' big. I merged the two threads you started because they are asking the same thing..