The Original Dermacrine, do you want to see it come back to NutraPlanet?

[fightbackhxc]

the battle begins.

 

[chocolatemilk]

i really loved derma topical- the LV, frankly, sucked. i was upset that PP ' dropped it ' when the andro series came out. and while i liked it, there were things i really didnt care for, mostly the amount you had to apply and the dry time. im using transaderm right now and those two things are non issues...if this stuff gives the same or better gain than the original, no, i dont care if you bring it back. the carrier, the amount needed to apply and the dry time blows the original away. now, if i feel it isnt working up to par with derma, i would consider using it again.you guys shouldnt have dropped it in the first place..i know ya'all are saying it never went away, but i seem to remember posts saying ' no, its not avail and we discontinued it along with all other hormonals in favor of the andro series.."

I'm sure you will get the same results if not better considering the better carrier and extra dosing to play around with if wanted.

 

[Independent]

Going to need to match/come close to the price/serving for the NTBM product if you bring it back. I won't buy either, just giving advice.

This^^^

But I think PP should revamp the product with a better carrier. I used it twice with results but the carrier was sub par.

 

[antknee02]

I'm sure you will get the same results if not better considering the better carrier and extra dosing to play around with if wanted.

ive been thinking of running full dose in the morning and half in the evening, both after a hot shower...any thoughts?

 

[rulk22]

i really loved derma topical- the LV, frankly, sucked. i was upset that PP ' dropped it ' when the andro series came out. and while i liked it, there were things i really didnt care for, mostly the amount you had to apply and the dry time. im using transaderm right now and those two things are non issues...if this stuff gives the same or better gain than the original, no, i dont care if you bring it back. the carrier, the amount needed to apply and the dry time blows the original away. now, if i feel it isnt working up to par with derma, i would consider using it again.
you guys shouldnt have dropped it in the first place..i know ya'all are saying it never went away, but i seem to remember posts saying ' no, its not avail and we discontinued it along with all other hormonals in favor of the andro series.."

Actually we were goin to let needto/ruthless supps distribute it but things never worked out. We took it back and decided to keep making it but only letting one company distribute it. I hear what your saying though.

 

[antknee02]

Actually we were goin to let needto/ruthless supps distribute it but things never worked out. We took it back and decided to keep making it but only letting one company distribute it. I hear what your saying though.

cool, thanks for the clarification, man...

 

[BigBlackGuy]

This^^^

But I think PP should revamp the product with a better carrier. I used it twice with results but the carrier was sub par.

If the carrier dries so fast, what is carrying the compound into the skin after it is dry?? I know I could always feel Avant's carrier and Primordial's carrier on my skin throughout the day. J/W I would love to hear from Nathan or a N2 rep on this.

 

[rulk22]

I'm sure you will get the same results if not better considering the better carrier and extra dosing to play around with if wanted.

What are the ingredients, and how do you know its a better carrier?

 

[fightbackhxc]

If the carrier dries so fast, what is carrying the compound into the skin after it is dry?? I know I could always feel Avant's carrier and Primordial's carrier on my skin throughout the day. J/W I would love to hear from Nathan or a N2 rep on this.

i actually would be interested to hear how the carrier is made more efficient. I am not really all that bright when it comes to transdermals. All I know is that their carrier dries in probably less than a minute.

 

[rulk22]

i actually would be interested to hear how the carrier is made more efficient. I am not really all that bright when it comes to transdermals. All I know is that their carrier dries in probably less than a minute.

Drying faster doesn't neccesarily mean better. In some cases it could be bad as it will leave the ingrediants "high and dry" on the surface without a chance to seep in and absorb.

 

[fightbackhxc]

Drying faster doesn't neccesarily mean better. In some cases it could be bad as it will leave the ingrediants "high and dry" on the surface without a chance to seep in and absorb.

i didnt say it was better...but the fact remains it dries really fast.

 

[rulk22]

i didnt say it was better...but the fact remains it dries really fast.

I know, I wasn't implying that you said that. It's a just saying kinda thing. I too want to know how the carrier works better ; )

 

[HereToStudy]

I am also curious to hear the details on "better," in scientific terms please, this isn't sun tan lotion drying fast doesn't do much for me.

 

[dvp]

Unless a side by side scientific absorption comparison was done between the PP derm carrier and the RS derm carrier it would certainly seem to be disingenuous to call the RS carrier "better." Maybe "faster drying," would be more appropriate.

 

[gymrat827]

The new carrier is the same one of forma stanzol. Being a ntbm rep aside ive used both PP's dermacrine and ntbm transderm. The transderm dries faster and doesnt feel like there has been any lotion applied to your body after it dries. The dermacrine left me with a sun tan lotion feeling after it was applied. The transderm does not. Both products leave behind a scent tho.

The bottle of dermacrine is prolly twice the size of the transderm bottle. 5 pumps of transderm is about 60% volume wise of 5 pumps of dermacrine. so there is much less lotion that has to be applied.


Im not going to say that transderm works any better or will provide better gains because Ive only tried it applying it once to see how it felt on my skin afterward.

I wish you guys would bring back the 1-T

 

[Independent]

This^^^

But I think PP should revamp the product with a better carrier. I used it twice with results but the carrier was sub par.

I guess I should say I would like to see a faster drying carrier, sub par was a bad choice of wording.

Drying faster doesn't neccesarily mean better. In some cases it could be bad as it will leave the ingrediants "high and dry" on the surface without a chance to seep in and absorb.

Could be a valid point.

 

[HereToStudy]

Unless a side by side scientific absorption comparison was done between the PP derm carrier and the RS derm carrier it would certainly seem to be disingenuous to call the RS carrier "better." Maybe "faster drying," would be more appropriate.

This is certainly my point, and even deeper into what BBG addressed previously, if this is drying so fast, what is ensuring the actives are utilized?

 

[Young Gotti]

just like any lotion you have, you want it drying and going into your skin rather than sitting on top of your skin not being absorbed

 

[Rodja]

just like any lotion you have, you want it drying and going into your skin rather than sitting on top of your skin not being absorbed

Not sure what point you're trying to make with this statement. Fast drying=/fast absorbing. There's only a certain amount of hormone that a carrier can hold before it just becomes wasted.

 

[Young Gotti]

Not sure what point you're trying to make with this statement. Fast drying=/fast absorbing. There's only a certain amount of hormone that a carrier can hold before it just becomes wasted.

exactly what i'm saying, if ur useing a lotion with said hormone in it, your rubbing it in your skin and the skin is accepting it or absorbing it (drying), rather than not accepting it and wasting it by sitting on your skin

 

[chocolatemilk]

Drying faster doesn't neccesarily mean better. In some cases it could be bad as it will leave the ingrediants "high and dry" on the surface without a chance to seep in and absorb.

You have no idea what you're talking about...

We use DMSO... does PP use it? Anyone who knows anything about transdermals knows a carrier with DMSO works better than one without. Doesn't take a genius to figure that out.

 

[Rodja]

exactly what i'm saying, if ur useing a lotion with said hormone in it, your rubbing it in your skin and the skin is accepting it or absorbing it (drying), rather than not accepting it and wasting it by sitting on your skin

Absorbing and drying are not the same thing.

You have no idea what you're talking about...

We use DMSO... does PP use it? Anyone who knows anything about transdermals knows a carrier with DMSO works better than one without. Doesn't take a genius to figure that out.

The label that was posted on M-M doesn't show DMSO in the carrier.

 

[JudoJosh]

You have no idea what you're talking about...

We use DMSO... does PP use it? Anyone who knows anything about transdermals knows a carrier with DMSO works better than one without. Doesn't take a genius to figure that out.

And one should also know that by using DMSO you also have an increased risk of overall neural damage from it.

 

[rulk22]

You have no idea what you're talking about...

We use DMSO... does PP use it? Anyone who knows anything about transdermals knows a carrier with DMSO works better than one without. Doesn't take a genius to figure that out.

Im not super knowledgable on topicals..Are you? I think its safe to say that topical Dermacrine has a pretty stellar track record, does your version have one? It took many, many tries for Eric to perfect Dermacrine and you think the minds over at needto have managed to find a way to improve upon it? Im not saying its impossible but its highly unlikely.

 

[Young Gotti]

Im not super knowledgable on topicals..Are you? I think its safe to say that topical Dermacrine has a pretty stellar track record, does your version have one? It took many, many tries for Eric to perfect Dermacrine and you think the minds over at needto have managed to find a way to improve upon it? Im not saying its impossible but its highly unlikely.

we aren't saying dermacrine wasn't a good product at all, nate wouldn't have brought it back from the dead if he didn't think it was good himself, however the old version had major flaws, all we did was fix those flaws and released our own.....essentially doesn't most companies do that with preworkout products?

 

[rulk22]

we aren't saying dermacrine wasn't a good product at all, nate wouldn't have brought it back from the dead if he didn't think it was good himself, however the old version had major flaws, all we did was fix those flaws and released our own.....essentially doesn't most companies do that with preworkout products?

Sure it happens all the time and I see what your saying, but I think its a matter of opinion to say it had major flaws and that you fixed them. It's goin to take time and user feedback to tell us how well your version works and if its better.

 

[PrepNwa23]

I have no horse in this debate just a thought. I'm not completely up to date on DMSO or by any means knowledgeable but wasn't there always a concern with it cause in theory it could pass the brain-blood barrier. Meaning if there was any unwanted products in NTBM's products that it's ultimately by passing everything going straight to your blood stream and to your brain. I"m just saying seems sketchy for a company that isn't even cGMP compliant. With a history of having contaminated products you wouldn't know exactly you were putting in your body.

 

[chocolatemilk]

Please guys if you're going to talk about DMSO have some links about why it's soooo bad even tho it's very commonly used in the medical community. @ Rodja I don't know why Mich missed it. He was writing it by hand. I will ask him. @ Judojosh please give a link... And if you're going to quote developing mice being given DMSO save it. And for all you guys concerned about Transaderm we get it through JW Nutritional... So please Rodja call the product bunk now go for it buddy. I'm sure other companies will be fond of that.

 

[Rodja]

Please guys if you're going to talk about DMSO have some links about why it's soooo bad even tho it's very commonly used in the medical community.

@ Rodja I don't know why Mich missed it. He was writing it by hand. I will ask him.

@ Judojosh please give a link... And if you're going to quote developing mice being given DMSO save it.

And for all you guys concerned about Transaderm we get it through JW Nutritional... So please Rodja call the product bump now go for it buddy. I'm sure other companies will be fond of that.

What the hell are you talking about?

 

[chocolatemilk]

What the hell are you talking about?

Lol this makes me laugh and truly shows me how little you know.

 

[Rodja]

Lol this makes me laugh and truly shows me how little you know.

I was referring to this particular part:
"So please Rodja call the product bump now go for it buddy. I'm sure other companies will be fond of that."

I understand if you're touchy over the fact that NTBM has a questionable past regarding truthfulness in their labels, but I honestly could care less since I'll never give a penny to any of Nathan's companies.

 

[chocolatemilk]

I was referring to this particular part: "So please Rodja call the product bump now go for it buddy. I'm sure other companies will be fond of that."I understand if you're touchy over the fact that NTBM has a questionable past regarding truthfulness in their labels, but I honestly could care less since I'll never give a penny to any of Nathan's companies.

Oh please... Any chance you get you are denouncing Transaderm. Seems you are touch about Dermacrine. I find it hilarious that you would even attempt to insinuate that JW makes bunk products. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. I would stay out of this thread completely were it not for your dumb thoughtless snickering remarks. But since I'm here...Transaderm is very legit. It has more servings. And the carrier is superior. Enjoy

 

[bashman]

^^ Just curious, why aren't you guys cGMP compliant? Judging from your troubled past, would it not be beneficial to your company to ensure greater overall quality?

 

[Rodja]

Oh please... Any chance you get you are denouncing Transaderm. Seems you are touch about Dermacrine. I find it hilarious that you would even attempt to insinuate that JW makes bunk products. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. I would stay out of this thread completely were it not for your dumb thoughtless snickering remarks. But since I'm here...Transaderm is very legit. It has more servings. And the carrier is superior. Enjoy

At which point have I insinuated that Transaderm was bunk? I brought up Nathan's past with putting out untruthful products and then question why your product is superior just because it dries faster. A little quantitative data would be nice other than rehashing a promo and repeating the ame crap over and over and over.

 

[chocolatemilk]

@ Bashman I don't know I am not the boss. Some products along with Transaderm are made by JW, DSHEA and cGMP compliant. Many reputable companies use them.

At which point have I insinuated that Transaderm was bunk? I brought up Nathan's past with putting out untruthful products and then question why your product is superior just because it dries faster. A little quantitative data would be nice other than rehashing a promo and repeating the ame crap over and over and over.

Someone mentioned Transaderm and you went off about Nathans past... Umm putting two and two together I would have to say you are implying Transaderm could be bunk... Durrr.

 

[Rodja]

@ Bashman I don't know I am not the boss. Some products along with Transaderm are made by JW, DSHEA and cGMP compliant. Many reputable companies use them. Someone mentioned Transaderm and you went off about Nathans past... Umm putting two and two together I would have to say you are implying Transaderm could be bunk... Durrr.

That's called an assumption. You know what happens when you assume....

 

[steppinRazor]

That's called an assumption. You know what happens when you assume....

So what exactly were you insinuating when told me I shouldn't trust ntbm afterI said I got my money on transaderm?

 

[chocolatemilk]

That's called an assumption. You know what happens when you assume....

Your reply to someone who mentioned Transaderm being better was "I wouldn't trust a company that has had QC issues." A retard can see you are bashing the product.The fact that you are hiding what you were implying satisfies me because you now know that the product is legit. Thanks.

 

[Young Gotti]

Alrite enough is enough, this isn't fair to the customers and flat out stupid, two company's having a slap fight on the internet is just dumb

We think our company is better and pp thinks theirs is, its the same ingridents with a different carrier, enough said

 

[chocolatemilk]

So what exactly were you insinuating when told me I shouldn't trust ntbm afterI said I got my money on transaderm?

Lol... Exactly. It's clear he was bashing the product.

 

[Rodja]

I was actually bashing the company, not the product. I would say that about anything that NTBM puts out, but you can twist my words however you want to support your position.

 

[HereToStudy]

I was actually bashing the company, not the product. I would say that about anything that NTBM puts out, but you can twist my words however you want to support your position.

^ He said he wouldn't use a product from a company with QC issues. Neither would I, and for the life of me I can't figure out why anyone else would.

 

[T50]

This is hilarious lol

 

[ambulldog]

this is truly funny. i love the ntbm and pp wars and we havent had one in a while. ill say my piece here as i also have no horse on this race.

i ordered transderm because pp left us loyal derm customers out to dry when they discontinued it. that decision has always baffled me as there was such a demand for it, well so it seemed from the boards. but hey im sure eric made the decision for a reason.

whos product would i buy if both were on the shelf sitting next to eachother? pp's dermacrine. reason for that has already been covered in this thread.

as for the carrier. yeah pp's coulda been a little easier to deal with but it didnt bother me all that much. but then again i only use half dose per day every day of the year to supplement my trt. derm is a very good hormonal suppport for people on trt that dont like to use hcg.

as for absorbtion of product. im no expert and wont claim to be, but from my understanding. you have only a limited number of enzymes/square inch in the skin to do the necessary initial conversion. so concentrating so much ingredient into such a small area may or may not be the answer. i certainly dont know but maybe someone with the knowledge to answer that will chime in.

which product will be better? who knows. ive used derm for well over a year straight and wil be starting transderm tommorow or saturday. if for some reason i can tell adifference between the products over time ill chime back in. i wont however comment on the carrier as that means absolutely nothing to me

 

[rulk22]

Sounds fair enough to me ambulldog ^^. Thank you for your feedback btw.

 

[chocolatemilk]

^ He said he wouldn't use a product from a company with QC issues. Neither would I, and for the life of me I can't figure out why anyone else would.

I am literally laughing at how hypocritical you are how much you are lying. You're willing to buy Trenvar from IBE but when it comes to us you are not... yea you should rephrase that to "I will never buy a product from a company which competes with us."

 

[chocolatemilk]

This is hilarious lol

I wanna step in the cage with Rodja... srs

 

[rulk22]

I am literally laughing at how hypocritical you are how much you are lying. You're willing to buy Trenvar from IBE but when it comes to us you are not... yea you should rephrase that to "I will never buy a product from a company which competes with us."

I think he means companies with glaring QC issues. As far as buying from other competitors, I know I do and im pretty sure the other reps do as well. Its just your company we choose not to support, not for competition reasons but for principle reasons. We dont like your business model and what you stand for. And as far as viewing you as competition, we really dont. Those are just my opinions and observations btw and not Primordial Performance or any of the other reps.

 

[rulk22]

I wanna step in the cage with Rodja... srs

Do you have any experience or training? Remember Rodja used to do that for fun.

 

[Rodja]

I wanna step in the cage with Rodja... srs

That would just be too much fun for me. Still, I love all of the internet tough talk.