The Definitive guide to Post Cycle Therapy (PCT)

[qwerty33]

can you post links of threads that discuss epi gyno and sides?

logs would be sweet

 

[KgTomCat]

can you post links of threads that discuss epi gyno and sides?

logs would be sweet

I didnt mean it will cause gyno, I know that everything Ive read has 'gyno' this or that in it, either its good at taking away gyno or it'll give you gyno, but what if you don't have gyno? What makes me want to do Epi is the gains I read that people get from it. Sorry, didn't mean to say the wrong thing
this is the log Im reading and like it,
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=6976481

 

[KgTomCat]

I confused Epi with causing gyno and getting rid of gyno, it takes gyno away, now what if you dont have gyno?

 

[qwerty33]

torem vs clomi. Is torem just as toxic/carcinogenic as clomid?

i am on week 2 of the trs and i used clomid at 25mg only 7 days and my boys are back in swing.

i should be find for my bloodwork at wk 3 even tho clomid is lil liver toxic?

 

[Eric Potratz]

I have another question. What would you run your nolva at coming off a test e cycle. No hcg and wish that I had it. But could not get a hold of it. I'm coming off a 4 month cycle of test e ran at 500mg/wk. So should I run clomid as planned with nolva?
planning to run it like this
300mg-first day for clomid to get blood levels up right away
100/100/50/50
nolva
40/40/20/20
Concur or not. please tell me your thinking. last inject was July 3rd, so I was planning on starting the 15-17, approx 14 days out.

You really need hCG. I doubt you can fully recovery without it.

You can start 20mg/day of nolva now and do what you can to get some hCG. I wouldnt use the Clomid. The nolva and TRS will be the best choice.

-Eric

 

[Eric Potratz]

torem vs clomi. Is torem just as toxic/carcinogenic as clomid?

i am on week 2 of the trs and i used clomid at 25mg only 7 days and my boys are back in swing.

i should be find for my bloodwork at wk 3 even tho clomid is lil liver toxic?

Toremifene is my perferred choice over Nolva or Clomid... just as effective, but slightly less toxic.

-Eric

 

[Eric Potratz]

I confused Epi with causing gyno and getting rid of gyno, it takes gyno away, now what if you dont have gyno?

If you have alot of estrogen bound up in SHBG then epi may give you problems with gyno by lowering SHBG and freeing up estrogen to do its dirty work.

Some guys have this problem, some dont. It really has nothing to do with having gyno already or not.

-Eric

 

[KgTomCat]

If you have alot of estrogen bound up in SHBG then epi may give you problems with gyno by lowering SHBG and freeing up estrogen to do its dirty work.

Some guys have this problem, some dont. It really has nothing to do with having gyno already or not.

-Eric

Ive been making gains like never before, I mixing alot of training principles in one, and keeping it simple...Im not going to use Epi, just Hdrol/Furaguno, and Im trying out Toremifene with PCT, not Nolva

 

[qwerty33]

any idea when oral sustain alpha will be ready?

also w/ the current one does it matter what time of the day to use it? i norm put it on at night

 

[Eric Potratz]

any idea when oral sustain alpha will be ready?

also w/ the current one does it matter what time of the day to use it? i norm put it on at night

Night time is fine on the Sustain.

Tester bottles of oral Sustain Alpha liquid should be shipping in the next week.

-Eric

 

[qwerty33]

since clomid half life is 5 days (i think). that means that its active and still working on the htpa 5 days after you stop correct? w/ the same benefits of the last dose for those 5 days?

 

[KgTomCat]

since clomid half life is 5 days (i think). that means that its active and still working on the htpa 5 days after you stop correct? w/ the same benefits of the last dose for those 5 days?

bump


I have the same question but for Toremifene???

:afro:

 

[KgTomCat]

I just did a search for Toremifene. WOW. sooo expensive

 

[TexasTitan]

Vitex at 460mg/day ED throughout the cycle.

Gyno symptoms really hasnt been a problem for most guys though... like less than 10% of the users of 1-T TREN... and so far nobody has had any permanent problems from it.

-Eric

Id like to build on this Eric. Say I wanted to ensure (well try at least haha) no gyno with other things. You mention Epi can free up some stuff previously bound by SHBG. The other things I had in mind were Anavar and Turinabol. Would Vitex be a good addition to any cycles including these? I mean, if it helps take out the progesterone receptors it cant really hurt anything right?

Also you say 460mg. Any reason for this seemingly random number? Most things I see are like this for example. Look close enough/fine? It seems trivial Im sure but I should ask.

CHASTEBERRY EXTRACT (VITEX AGNUS-CASTUS)(BERRY) STD. TO 0.5% AGNUSIDES 1 MG - 200 Mg
Chasteberry (Vitex Agnus-Castus)(Berry) - 300 Mg

 

[Trauma1]

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[qwerty33]

since clomid half life is 5 days (i think). that means that its active and still working on the htpa 5 days after you stop correct? w/ the same benefits of the last dose for those 5 days?

 

[Eric Potratz]

Id like to build on this Eric. Say I wanted to ensure (well try at least haha) no gyno with other things. You mention Epi can free up some stuff previously bound by SHBG. The other things I had in mind were Anavar and Turinabol. Would Vitex be a good addition to any cycles including these? I mean, if it helps take out the progesterone receptors it cant really hurt anything right?

Also you say 460mg. Any reason for this seemingly random number? Most things I see are like this for example. Look close enough/fine? It seems trivial Im sure but I should ask.

CHASTEBERRY EXTRACT (VITEX AGNUS-CASTUS)(BERRY) STD. TO 0.5% AGNUSIDES 1 MG - 200 Mg
Chasteberry (Vitex Agnus-Castus)(Berry) - 300 Mg

You could run Vitex with those other items. However I think Anavar and Turinabol tend to bind to the AR strong enough to antagonize estrogen action and not be associated with gyno problems. (even though they lower SHBG)

460mg/day is the same amount used in the human study that shows a reduction in prolactin. (different than progesterone, but a co-factor in breast growth so a good thing nonetheless) 400mg/day should do the job though.

-Eric

 

[Eric Potratz]

since clomid half life is 5 days (i think). that means that its active and still working on the htpa 5 days after you stop correct? w/ the same benefits of the last dose for those 5 days?

The different isomers clear at different rates (5/7 day half-life for en/zuclomiphene I believe)

One of the reasons I prefer Toremifene and Nolva over clomid is that they don't posses the estrogen metabolites like Clomid does. (Most all the SERM's have a 5-7 day half-life)

-Eric

 

[TexasTitan]

You could run Vitex with those other items. However I think Anavar and Turinabol tend to bind to the AR strong enough to antagonize estrogen action and not be associated with gyno problems. (even though they lower SHBG)

460mg/day is the same amount used in the human study that shows a reduction in prolactin. (different than progesterone, but a co-factor in breast growth so a good thing nonetheless) 400mg/day should do the job though.

-Eric

Is there anything to help stop progesterone? I know nolva/torem will up the receptors after each use and make you more prone to gyno so is there anything that can be done in that sense?

 

[KgTomCat]

make sense does switching serms mid ptc work? I am on clomid and would like to order some torem asap. Or does that not work

bump

 

[Eric Potratz]

Is there anything to help stop progesterone? I know nolva/torem will up the receptors after each use and make you more prone to gyno so is there anything that can be done in that sense?

Nothing that I know of...

Its just important to limit the use of SERMs. Its one of the reasons I dont recommend using them throughout a cycle and only for a very limited duration for certain PCT's.

-Eric

 

[Eric Potratz]

bump

Yes, you could switch... and switching from clomid to toremifene would be a good thing.

-Eric

 

[KgTomCat]

Yes, you could switch... and switching from clomid to toremifene would be a good thing.

-Eric

thanx man...Im thinking about using Torem instead of Nolva for my cycle now

 

[Eric Potratz]

thanx man...Im thinking about using Torem instead of Nolva for my cycle now

That would be a good choice!

-Eric

 

[KgTomCat]

That would be a good choice!

-Eric

Im thinking..
120/90/60/30
being that Ive never used, Im not 100% sure on doasages

 

[qwerty33]

thanks erik. really enjoyed your products and info on serms.

 

[Trauma1]

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[Eric Potratz]

Im thinking..
120/90/60/30
being that Ive never used, Im not 100% sure on doasages

On what drug?

 

[KgTomCat]

On what drug?

Halodrol/Furaguno

Halodrol=75/75/75/100/100/100
Furaguno=200/200/200/300/300/300

 

[Eric Potratz]

Halodrol/Furaguno

Halodrol=75/75/75/100/100/100
Furaguno=200/200/200/300/300/300

Off the top of my head Im not very familiar with either of those compounds...

-Eric

 

[Trauma1]

There is only 1 hour left on this sale. Get you some!!!

 

[Trauma1]

Halodrol/Furaguno

Halodrol=75/75/75/100/100/100
Furaguno=200/200/200/300/300/300

Are you asking what you should dose the Torem at for this cycle?

 

[KgTomCat]

Are you asking what you should dose the Torem at for this cycle?

yes, Ive read that the most common dosage is 120/90/60/30..?
Torem is so expensive though :sigh1:

 

[neverstop]

that is a common dose but starting at 90 or 60 and then running the lowest does for longer would probably be better for you. typically any of the high dose is only ran for 4-5 days too.

 

[KgTomCat]

that is a common dose but starting at 90 or 60 and then running the lowest does for longer would probably be better for you. typically any of the high dose is only ran for 4-5 days too.

so...
120 (4-5 days)/90/60/30/30...?

Im thinking about pulsing Epi (Mon/Wed/Fri) for 4 weeks with Hdrol (ED) for 6 weeks...any opinions?

 

[qwerty33]

Hey eric or trauma, do you have any links to before and afters blood work from the TRS? Preferable after a cycle and not standalone.

 

[Jotan]

Hi,

Just starting PCT today after 6 weeks 2 days on 1t-t. I'm using the TRS and 10mg of nolva.

I have APPNUT Alpha-X and Stoked (test boosters) which both state they reduce estrogen. I only took Alpha-x today as your article says you don't want to suppress estrogen too much during pct.

Can I safely take both test boosters?

 

[kch198622]

I guess I'm just a little confused onthis whole deal. I am currently cyling X-Tren by CEL (19-nor) which is essentialy the same as your 1T-T. So my question is from what I have read 19-nor extra estrogen is not nearly as much of a concern as prolactin issues so why would any SERM even be necessary? Also in the guide you kind of knock on AI's which I'm a little confused on as well because it is my understanding that when you're on cycle your test levels are skyrocketed and in turn your bodies natural response is to acheive a balance by turning up the estrogen as well. So from what I can understand when you end cycle your test level drops very low and your estrogen is left higher due to the balancing that occured while on cycle. So why would you not want to combine a tapering AI such as Novedex XT and A test booster such as HyperTest? In my mind at least that would make most sense due to the fact that the AI would cause your estrogen to decrease and the test booster would cause your test to increase. Thereby causing both estrogen and test to head back towards a naturall balance. Also I know that estrogen is important and that you do not want to completely kill it off thats why you would taper it off allowing your body to regain that natural balance that it so desires. Nobody laugh but these numbers have no significance they are just to illustrate a point.

100test-100est balance
on cycle-300test-^^^ estrogen to acheive balance
cycle end-testVVVnatural production down-300 estrogen

therefore at the end of cycle your left with something looking like this
50test-300 estrogen

now for the PCT and how it makes sense to me
50test^^^test booster-300estrogenVVVAI
so therfore your going back towards that sweet little balance and tapering the AI insures that your estrogen doesnt go too low but reaches that natural level and i don't beleive in tapering the test booster down because hey a little high of natural test never hurt anyone

Somebody please tell me if i have this all wrong but from all the research I have done this seems to be the way it works.

Also what makes your TRS better then Hypertest because I have heard great things about the HT and I'm wondering what makes your TRS worth the huge price difference?

 

[kch198622]

bump

 

[Eric Potratz]

Hey eric or trauma, do you have any links to before and afters blood work from the TRS? Preferable after a cycle and not standalone.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/105053-before-after-blood.html

 

[Eric Potratz]

Hi,

Just starting PCT today after 6 weeks 2 days on 1t-t. I'm using the TRS and 10mg of nolva.

I have APPNUT Alpha-X and Stoked (test boosters) which both state they reduce estrogen. I only took Alpha-x today as your article says you don't want to suppress estrogen too much during pct.

Can I safely take both test boosters?

What are the ingredients in those products? I dont like to have any steroidial AI's in PCT.

-Eric

 

[Eric Potratz]

I guess I'm just a little confused onthis whole deal. I am currently cyling X-Tren by CEL (19-nor) which is essentialy the same as your 1T-T. So my question is from what I have read 19-nor extra estrogen is not nearly as much of a concern as prolactin issues so why would any SERM even be necessary? Also in the guide you kind of knock on AI's which I'm a little confused on as well because it is my understanding that when you're on cycle your test levels are skyrocketed and in turn your bodies natural response is to acheive a balance by turning up the estrogen as well. So from what I can understand when you end cycle your test level drops very low and your estrogen is left higher due to the balancing that occured while on cycle. So why would you not want to combine a tapering AI such as Novedex XT and A test booster such as HyperTest? In my mind at least that would make most sense due to the fact that the AI would cause your estrogen to decrease and the test booster would cause your test to increase. Thereby causing both estrogen and test to head back towards a naturall balance. Also I know that estrogen is important and that you do not want to completely kill it off thats why you would taper it off allowing your body to regain that natural balance that it so desires. Nobody laugh but these numbers have no significance they are just to illustrate a point.

100test-100est balance
on cycle-300test-^^^ estrogen to acheive balance
cycle end-testVVVnatural production down-300 estrogen

therefore at the end of cycle your left with something looking like this
50test-300 estrogen

now for the PCT and how it makes sense to me
50test^^^test booster-300estrogenVVVAI
so therfore your going back towards that sweet little balance and tapering the AI insures that your estrogen doesnt go too low but reaches that natural level and i don't beleive in tapering the test booster down because hey a little high of natural test never hurt anyone

Somebody please tell me if i have this all wrong but from all the research I have done this seems to be the way it works.

Also what makes your TRS better then Hypertest because I have heard great things about the HT and I'm wondering what makes your TRS worth the huge price difference?

Testosterone is suppressed during a cycle, not skyrocketed. (unless you are actually taking testosterone) If testosterone is depressed, then estrogen will be too.

-Eric

 

[qwerty33]

hey prim. I loved your XHMS and will run your trs will all my future ph/ds runs.

I want to get pre cycle and post pct blood work done. Do you know any online sites to get this done? I really don't trust zrt labs.

also what should i look into getting done?
Total Test
LH
FSH
Estradiol

Thanks m8

 

[Ninjo]

hey prim. I loved your XHMS and will run your trs will all my future ph/ds runs.

I want to get pre cycle and post pct blood work done. Do you know any online sites to get this done? I really don't trust zrt labs.

also what should i look into getting done?
Total Test
Free Test
SHBG
Estradiol

Thanks m8

May as well get your liver enzymes and HDL/LDL numbers while you're at it.

 

[Strongben1991]

Im going to run an epistane cycle, i will use formex and activate extreme during post cycle. On epi cycle i will run cycle support. Do you guys think this will be fine?

 

[qwerty33]

add his TRS stack for 100$. then your set. It will get you back up in no time. Personally i would run the TRS + ptc assist by cel. Drop formex or if you have it use it while on cycle to harden up. and A extreme i dont like at all.

 

[Eric Potratz]

hey prim. I loved your XHMS and will run your trs will all my future ph/ds runs.

I want to get pre cycle and post pct blood work done. Do you know any online sites to get this done? I really don't trust zrt labs.

also what should i look into getting done?
Total Test
LH
FSH
Estradiol

Thanks m8

I think life extension sells quest lab test products... but why dont you trust ZRT? There blood tests should be just as reliable as quest.

-Eric

 

[qwerty33]

is this the site you are suggseting? Can I get the blood drawn from any local blood test center? http://www.lef.org/

Also i read that zrt labs are not that accurate because of the mailing in process. The blood is not spun before being sent out. What are you feeling on this?

Lastly any eta on liquid sustain alpha?

 

[Eric Potratz]

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-Eric

 

[dustin06MR]

would this product be effective for a 4 week S-drol or M-drol and phera cycle? i know thats a pretty strong stack...