The Definitive guide to Post Cycle Therapy (PCT)

[Jotan]

The best place for SA is really the scrotum and torso. The entire upper body and remaining torso would be best for the 1-T TREN.

-Eric

Thanks,

I'd read somewhere it wasn't a good idea to put tren on your chest/stomach. Obviously you know best.

J.

 

[Marc-Antony]

hcg on cycle 250iu's E4D, how did you come up with that bizarre protocol?

 

[Mikey9305]

How long would you suggest waiting before PCT after an M-Drol cycle if I use Nolvadex ?

 

[thewiseone21]

What pct protocol would you suggest for the following cycle

Hdrol : 50/50/75/75/75/75
Fura: 250/250/300/300/300/300

Thanks

 

[qwerty33]

is this the same as the 1-andro that is in 1-t tren?

http://www.discountanabolics.com/p/AM03

 

[Eric Potratz]

hcg on cycle 250iu's E4D, how did you come up with that bizarre protocol?

It stems from this line of thought -


-Eric

 

[Eric Potratz]

How long would you suggest waiting before PCT after an M-Drol cycle if I use Nolvadex ?

24hrs.

-Eric

 

[Eric Potratz]

What pct protocol would you suggest for the following cycle

Hdrol : 50/50/75/75/75/75
Fura: 250/250/300/300/300/300

Thanks

The day after the last dose you would start the TRS and run it for 30 days. You could stack this with 40mg/day toremifene for faster recovery.

-Eric

 

[Eric Potratz]

is this the same as the 1-andro that is in 1-t tren?

http://www.discountanabolics.com/p/AM03

Yes, exact same stuff.

-Eric

 

[smocho]

So what youre saying is dont use an AI in PCT, Formex for instance praises itself to be a good choice for PCT since it brings back testosterone production and increases libido, you say the complete opposite however. Using a SERM like Clomid in combination with for example Formex is a proper PCT in my opinion?

 

[patriot010]

Quick Question:
Started a D-bol Naopsim 25mg/day
Win Stanobolic 20mg/day
Just finished my 4 week cycle and am now doing a pct nolvadex 10mg/day for 4 weeks!
Just wondering if that seemed like a good cycle and was wondering what you all thought about androl 50

 

[Eric Potratz]

So what youre saying is dont use an AI in PCT, Formex for instance praises itself to be a good choice for PCT since it brings back testosterone production and increases libido, you say the complete opposite however. Using a SERM like Clomid in combination with for example Formex is a proper PCT in my opinion?

Reports of reduced libido are rather common after several weeks of formestane use. (likely because of over suppresion of estrogen and lingering anti-androgen metabolites)

-Eric

 

[Eric Potratz]

Quick Question:
Started a D-bol Naopsim 25mg/day
Win Stanobolic 20mg/day
Just finished my 4 week cycle and am now doing a pct nolvadex 10mg/day for 4 weeks!
Just wondering if that seemed like a good cycle and was wondering what you all thought about androl 50

That stuff is the real deal and is probably more worth your time than alot of the legal orals on the market... but people will still blast you for not doing an injectable with that. (like a TE or something)

If you keep your cycles 4 weeks long then you can get away with a nolva only PCT... its pretty easy to recover from 4 week cycle no mater what you use.

-Eric

 

[qwerty33]

Questions for Erik

-does vitex lower gains while on the xhms?
should it be used only if prolactin sides atart to show? or everyday anyway?
-bulk 1-carboxy(powerfull) is good to use also or not necessary? i ran it everyday 2 caps at night
-p-5-p necessary? i stopped mid cycle

does this logic make sense,
bc "Expect 30-40% of the active ingredients to be shuttled into the body over a 12-24 hour period. (10,11)"

1-t tren has 81mg * .35= 28mg enters body per 5 pumps?

19-Norandrosta-4,9-diene-3,17-dione (TREN) - 81 mg

-lastly, how did bloodwork come back from users the XHMS or 1-t tren? How did their liver enzymes, lipid profile, and T, Lh, fsh look like after?

part 2: I have my annual physical 3 weeks into ptc. should this pose problems for my blood work?

btw thanks for takeing the time to answer all my questions. And will write a review of my 1-t tren exp a week into ptc which my ptc starts in 2 days. +12lbs lean mass atm

 

[Eric Potratz]

Questions for Erik

-does vitex lower gains while on the xhms?
should it be used only if prolactin sides atart to show? or everyday anyway?
-bulk 1-carboxy(powerfull) is good to use also or not necessary? i ran it everyday 2 caps at night
-p-5-p necessary? i stopped mid cycle

does this logic make sense,
bc "Expect 30-40% of the active ingredients to be shuttled into the body over a 12-24 hour period. (10,11)"

1-t tren has 81mg * .35= 28mg enters body per 5 pumps?

19-Norandrosta-4,9-diene-3,17-dione (TREN) - 81 mg

-lastly, how did bloodwork come back from users the XHMS or 1-t tren? How did their liver enzymes, lipid profile, and T, Lh, fsh look like after?

part 2: I have my annual physical 3 weeks into ptc. should this pose problems for my blood work?

btw thanks for takeing the time to answer all my questions. And will write a review of my 1-t tren exp a week into ptc which my ptc starts in 2 days. +12lbs lean mass atm

I dont see any method by how vitex would lower gains. I run it right from the beginning of the cycle to the end.

The 1-carboxy should be fine.

I dont see any reason for the p-5-p

Yes, that would be sound logic. (you can account for about 8% in an oral pill)

Ive seen elevated liver enzymes with stacks, but not 1-T TREN alone. FSH and LH would be in the near undetectable levels after 1-2 weeks. Ive also seen increases in BP from 1-T TREN cycles. Either way, this stuff should return to normal in 2-3 weeks.

What is the blood work looking for in the physical?

-Eric

 

[KgTomCat]

What pct protocol would you suggest for the following cycle

Hdrol : 50/50/75/75/75/75
Fura: 250/250/300/300/300/300

Thanks

Im doing this exact same cycle in a month or so...

 

[KgTomCat]

thewiseone21-whats your full cycle look like thus far?

 

[qwerty33]

"FSH and LH would be in the near undetectable levels after 1-2 weeks"
-do you mean undetectable like they should be where they were?

-im not exactly sure what there testing for but i will find out.

if i run 50mg first 3 days and then 25 mg rest of wk 1+2 would that effect my bloodwork?

-8% is that number static for every oral compound or does it depend on what oral? like oral 19-nor at 60mb *.08= 4.8? thats sucks comparatively then

1-carboxy should be run and vitex or is vitex + cycle assist (support supp) the only thing needed

 

[Eric Potratz]

"FSH and LH would be in the near undetectable levels after 1-2 weeks"
-do you mean undetectable like they should be where they were?

-im not exactly sure what there testing for but i will find out.

if i run 50mg first 3 days and then 25 mg rest of wk 1+2 would that effect my bloodwork?

-8% is that number static for every oral compound or does it depend on what oral? like oral 19-nor at 60mb *.08= 4.8? thats sucks comparatively then

1-carboxy should be run and vitex or is vitex + cycle assist (support supp) the only thing needed

Undetectable... like zero LH and FSH secretion.

50mg of what?

Thats the estimated delivery on any oral product. I know AMS liquidrone is using a new liquid sublingual delivery system that probably goes beyond 8% but Im not sure how much.

Vitex and PCT is all I would go with.

-Eric

 

[qwerty33]

50mg of what?
clomi. or maby just 25mg for 1st 2 weeks w/ the trs * as a kick starter for ptc

Undetectable... like zero LH and FSH secretion.

is this good or bad? just need clarification. Was the secretion before the xhms? so your saying a doc would be like this isnt normal?

 

[Eric Potratz]

50mg of what?
clomi. or maby just 25mg for 1st 2 weeks w/ the trs * as a kick starter for ptc

Undetectable... like zero LH and FSH secretion.

is this good or bad? just need clarification. Was the secretion before the xhms? so your saying a doc would be like this isnt normal?

I was talking about during the cycle... your LH & FSH will be suppressed... but then bounce back to more normal levels within 2-3 weeks after the cycle is over.

Its not really good or bad.. its just what happens.

I would chose toremifene or nolva over clomid if you really want to run a SERM. (40mg or 10mg day)

-Eric

 

[KgTomCat]

my money is with Nolva...

 

[qwerty33]

all i have been reading is that clomi is the only serm that handles prolactin. what do you prefer nolva? thing is i alread have clomi on hand

 

[Eric Potratz]

all i have been reading is that clomi is the only serm that handles prolactin. what do you prefer nolva? thing is i alread have clomi on hand

Not sure what you are saying about clomid and prolactin... Link?

If you already have the clomid then just stick with 25mg/day for 30 days with the TRS.

-Eric

 

[KgTomCat]

Id say Nolva just because Ive read good things about it, even though it is the harshest of the SERMS (I think....) but Ive also heard about the prolactin issue from Clomid, but if you have it on hand then use it, unless you got cash

 

[qwerty33]

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/post-cycle-therapy/105762-19-nor-xtreme.html

few posts down. i have seen this said on many others as well. let me know.

whats your feel on nolva vs clomi on health? you seems to support nolva just wondering. Im sure you have seen studies.

 

[KgTomCat]

not sure on overall health, just that Nolva is better at protecting against gyno, but its more toxic than clomid

 

[KgTomCat]

this is a good read I just found, supports Nolva but also points out that you'd need HCG for something stronger

http://www.steroidology.com/steroid-articles/steroid.info/45/Nolva_vs._Clomid_for_PCT.html

 

[Eric Potratz]

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/post-cycle-therapy/105762-19-nor-xtreme.html

few posts down. i have seen this said on many others as well. let me know.

whats your feel on nolva vs clomi on health? you seems to support nolva just wondering. Im sure you have seen studies.

I didnt see anything mentioned for prolactin...

Nolva and clomid both share very similar side-effects, I would guess that clomid is going to be a bit more toxic, but long-term data on this is lacking because it was only designed to be a drug used for 2-3 weeks at any given time.

If you want more background info on SERM's and toxicity, read this -


-Eric

 

[Eric Potratz]

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/post-cycle-therapy/105762-19-nor-xtreme.html

few posts down. i have seen this said on many others as well. let me know.

whats your feel on nolva vs clomi on health? you seems to support nolva just wondering. Im sure you have seen studies.

BTW, Toremifene or Raloxifene are really my preferred options... and then nolva.... and then clomid.

-Eric

 

[qwerty33]

"clomid is the only thing that will touch the gyno from tren. 1-carboxy will help, p5p will help but neither of these will in-and-of-themselves prevent a flare up, which tren can do."

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/105237-tren-designer-information.html
"the better serm for these would be clomid. nolvadex won't do **** for progestin gyno if you get it"

------------------------
(People have told me that clomi helps jump start HPTA function.) thats y i am thinking out using it for 1st 2 weeks but i dont want to toxify my body.

I would do with torem but i have no clue where to buy that online

IDEA 1
what do you think of the TRS + iforce reversitol? 3/2/2/1
would that be much better. no serm? would that cause 2 much estro suppression and lead to bounce back?

Idea 2
TRS alone bc i love you guys and trust that i will be resorted (trs i read is all you need)
+RPM Applied Nutriceuticals to help with estro? and act as pre workout

 

[Eric Potratz]

"clomid is the only thing that will touch the gyno from tren. 1-carboxy will help, p5p will help but neither of these will in-and-of-themselves prevent a flare up, which tren can do."

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/105237-tren-designer-information.html
"the better serm for these would be clomid. nolvadex won't do **** for progestin gyno if you get it"

------------------------
(People have told me that clomi helps jump start HPTA function.) thats y i am thinking out using it for 1st 2 weeks but i dont want to toxify my body.

I would do with torem but i have no clue where to buy that online

IDEA 1
what do you think of the TRS + iforce reversitol? 3/2/2/1
would that be much better. no serm? would that cause 2 much estro suppression and lead to bounce back?

Idea 2
TRS alone bc i love you guys and trust that i will be resorted (trs i read is all you need)
+RPM Applied Nutriceuticals to help with estro? and act as pre workout

You said "prolactin" which is different than progestin. In regards to progestin itss possible that Clomid has the same upregulatory effects for PR as nolva... but it has never been tested as far as I know. I feel that you could use either SERM after a TREN cycle really... Toremifene and raloxifene being my 1st choices for returning testosterone with minimal side-effects.

Stay away from the resvisterol. That product has steroidial AI's which will lower estogen too much and possibly interfere with the HPTA.

The RPM and TRS would be a good choice, but I wouldnt assume that RPM is going to really help T levels return.

-Eric

 

[KgTomCat]

PP-you dont suggest resvisterol...Ive read only good things about it. Im thinking about Nolva, Formex, Retain, Blue Up or Diesel Test...what do you think???

 

[KgTomCat]

BUMP

 

[qwerty33]

kg i would go with the TRS and if you feel you need it torem at his rec dose.

Best best serm i guess.

"Toremifene appears to be less liver toxic, but it is a closely related analog of tamoxifen, so it also carries many of the related genotoxic effects. (48,49)"

- All serms seem evil me to. Im glad you have made a healthy alternative to theses guys. Im going at the TRS solo with RPM pre workout. (Not that RPM will effect anything) but i hope to recover nicely even tho i feel shutdown atm.

 

[Eric Potratz]

PP-you dont suggest resvisterol...Ive read only good things about it. Im thinking about Nolva, Formex, Retain, Blue Up or Diesel Test...what do you think???

It has 6-bromo I believe... this is a pretty potent steroidial AI that is probably reducing estrogen to much during PCT, and perhaps interfering with the HPTA with agonistic/antagonistic effects on the AR.

I dont suggest any steroidal AI's for PCT. (unless you are concurrently using hCG)

-Eric

 

[qwerty33]

erik one last q would the new DTHC or Activate extreme stack well if the TRS?

only bc i dropped serm.

 

[Eric Potratz]

erik one last q would the new DTHC or Activate extreme stack well if the TRS?

only bc i dropped serm.

DTHC... not ringing a bell...

 

[medicone]

Just a quick question. Didnt read through all the posts as I am in a hurry, but want some clarification. Nolva is effective as an estrogen recptor blocker, but as far as HPTA it is totally useless and ineffective, because it just doesnt do it. Chemically structured different than Clomid in that respect. Clomid WILL restore LH/HPTA function. So unless I read wrong in a medical journal, can you back that statement up. I understand the risks involved in taking any kind of AI or SERM, but I think your data is wrong since anyone will tell you clomid for HPTA and Nolva for on cycle gyno or after. Torm is of course the best of both worlds, but hasnt been used for very long, so I am dong clomid for pct. AI during cycle, and stopping that before PCT starts. Couldnt get ahold of any HCG. Is that why you say Nolva instead of Clomid, because of the HCG, because that would make some sense.

 

[Eric Potratz]

Just a quick question. Didnt read through all the posts as I am in a hurry, but want some clarification. Nolva is effective as an estrogen recptor blocker, but as far as HPTA it is totally useless and ineffective, because it just doesnt do it. Chemically structured different than Clomid in that respect. Clomid WILL restore LH/HPTA function. So unless I read wrong in a medical journal, can you back that statement up. I understand the risks involved in taking any kind of AI or SERM, but I think your data is wrong since anyone will tell you clomid for HPTA and Nolva for on cycle gyno or after. Torm is of course the best of both worlds, but hasnt been used for very long, so I am dong clomid for pct. AI during cycle, and stopping that before PCT starts. Couldnt get ahold of any HCG. Is that why you say Nolva instead of Clomid, because of the HCG, because that would make some sense.

The “clomid is for HTPA recovery” and “nolva is useless for the HPTA” idea is a myth, probably originating from the fact that clomid was originally used to induce fertility in women, while the stronger estrogen agonist nolvadex would be ineffective for this. (because of its pure estrogen antagonism)

Remember, in men, its estrogen antagonism that increases LH/FSH and testosterone production. Nolvadex is a stronger (more pure) antagonist of estrogen at the receptor, thus it should produce a more profound increase in testosterone over Clomid.

Clomid is theoretically inferior to nolvadex because it also carries estrogenic effects from the 50% zuclomifene isomer. I say “theoretical” because there is very limited data on nolvadex and HPTA function, let alone a direct comparison to clomid… however the data is pretty clear that nolvadex a stronger estrogen blocker.

Any SERM (including raloxifene and tormifene) will stimulate the male HPTA by antagonizing estrogen. Invitro studies will tell you how well they can do this, and that can easily be interpreted to predict the invivo effect.

You can read a bit more about my view on SERMs here -


-Eric

 

[qwerty33]

DIESEL TEST Hardcore yay or nay?

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/121902-simmons-goes-toe-7.html

he used TRS + DTHC

 

[medicone]

Dude your awesome. Thank you for the response and the quick reply. Need to change the pct and lucky enough just in time.

 

[medicone]

The “clomid is for HTPA recovery” and “nolva is useless for the HPTA” idea is a myth, probably originating from the fact that clomid was originally used to induce fertility in women, while the stronger estrogen agonist nolvadex would be ineffective for this. (because of its pure estrogen antagonism)

Remember, in men, its estrogen antagonism that increases LH/FSH and testosterone production. Nolvadex is a stronger (more pure) antagonist of estrogen at the receptor, thus it should produce a more profound increase in testosterone over Clomid.

Clomid is theoretically inferior to nolvadex because it also carries estrogenic effects from the 50% zuclomifene isomer. I say “theoretical” because there is very limited data on nolvadex and HPTA function, let alone a direct comparison to clomid… however the data is pretty clear that nolvadex a stronger estrogen blocker.

Any SERM (including raloxifene and tormifene) will stimulate the male HPTA by antagonizing estrogen. Invitro studies will tell you how well they can do this, and that can easily be interpreted to predict the invivo effect.

You can read a bit more about my view on SERMs here -


-Eric

I have another question. What would you run your nolva at coming off a test e cycle. No hcg and wish that I had it. But could not get a hold of it. I'm coming off a 4 month cycle of test e ran at 500mg/wk. So should I run clomid as planned with nolva?
planning to run it like this
300mg-first day for clomid to get blood levels up right away
100/100/50/50
nolva
40/40/20/20
Concur or not. please tell me your thinking. last inject was July 3rd, so I was planning on starting the 15-17, approx 14 days out.

 

[KgTomCat]

Im confused now...again. wut PCT does anyone suggest for Hdrol?

 

[qwerty33]

would run TRS solo.
hdrol doesnt shut down that hard


@med: I would get his TRS and run it along torem.
Could be wrong but high dose of torem + TRS

 

[KgTomCat]

would run TRS solo.
hdrol doesnt shut down that hard


@med: I would get his TRS and run it along torem.
Could be wrong but high dose of torem + TRS

thats all? no SERM?
this is the cycle btw
Hdrol:50/75/75/100/100/100
Furaguno:200/200/300/300/300/300

OR...Pmag
not sure yet..I want to do something different than Hdrol

 

[qwerty33]

kg well stacked with fura im not sure but h-drol is really mild. back in the day i ran it w/ just novadex xt in ptc and was find

 

[KgTomCat]

kg well stacked with fura im not sure but h-drol is really mild. back in the day i ran it w/ just novadex xt in ptc and was find

yes, it is mild, but I respond well to it...this would be my 3rd cycle of Hdrol, that is why I want to do Pmag (something different) but have read that Hdrol is stronger than Pmag

 

[qwerty33]

dont know much about pmag why not go with a 5wk epi?

 

[KgTomCat]

dont know much about pmag why not go with a 5wk epi?

everything Ive read about Epi shows gyno and other bad sides, and Ive never seen someone do a 5 weeker, Im interested in anything...so tell me your opinions