Suboptimal gains if not training entire body 2x/wk

[Matthew1237]

Hey guys

Just wondering - I've got it ingrained in my head that any training routine that trains the full body less than twice a week is just going to give suboptimal gains due to not having enough frequency. Over the past month and a half I've been going through a shoulder injury and am also finding my sciatic nerve flaring up. I think it's just because I'm constantly stressing my trunk via deadlifts/squats one day and then bent rows/ standing OHP. So I'm just wondering if I switch my program to something a little less intensive am I going to see a noticeable drop in gains?

I started with the Arnold blueprint then went on to SL 5x5/ICF 5x5 and am now doing an HST 6 day routine where I alternate upper/lower.

Current training looks like this sets/reps vary based on week

Upper
Bench
OHP
Bent Rows
Pull ups
Chin ups
Dips
Close Grip Bench
Barbell curls

Lower
Deadlift
Squats
Leg Press
Leg curls
Leg Extensions
Occasionally - Hip ab/adductions

Would love some help - thanks guys!

 

[smike]

I thought HST was 3 times a week full body?

 

[Matthew1237]

It's just principles really - you can do it however you like.

 

[Jiigzz]

Hey guys

Just wondering - I've got it ingrained in my head that any training routine that trains the full body less than twice a week is just going to give suboptimal gains due to not having enough frequency. Over the past month and a half I've been going through a shoulder injury and am also finding my sciatic nerve flaring up. I think it's just because I'm constantly stressing my trunk via deadlifts/squats one day and then bent rows/ standing OHP. So I'm just wondering if I switch my program to something a little less intensive am I going to see a noticeable drop in gains?

I started with the Arnold blueprint then went on to SL 5x5/ICF 5x5 and am now doing an HST 6 day routine where I alternate upper/lower.

Current training looks like this sets/reps vary based on week

Upper
Bench
OHP
Bent Rows
Pull ups
Chin ups
Dips
Close Grip Bench
Barbell curls

Lower
Deadlift
Squats
Leg Press
Leg curls
Leg Extensions
Occasionally - Hip ab/adductions

Would love some help - thanks guys!

I would have 2-3 different upper and lower splits for the week rather than just keep rotating the same exercises.

I would look into adding hip extension exercises, mid trap exercises (face pulls, seated row etc)

 

[Matthew1237]

I would have 2-3 different upper and lower splits for the week rather than just keep rotating the same exercises. I would look into adding hip extension exercises, mid trap exercises (face pulls, seated row etc)

Yah I've been thinking about changing up my exercises. I've read that Phat is very good for that. Could be a program that's right up my Alley

 

[HIT4ME]

I am one of the few low-frequency guys on this board. I think you answered your own question in the first sentence. You have it in your head that less than 2X per week will lead to sub-optimal gains. I train each bodypart 1X per week, and have no problem if I extend that to 2 weeks for the entire cycle and I do alright. Over the past 2 months I've been on a PSMF and my strength is about the same as when I started after 9 weeks. Prior to that, I had been training for a little over 2 years and up until the last 6 months I saw gains in EVERY workout - all while eating in a deficit that led to 40+ pounds of weight loss over those 2 years. Yes, it's a slow recomp, but I wasn't dieting very well and was just taking my time - and now that I've dropped another 30 pounds in the past 9 weeks I think the muscle I've built is really evident. I'd estimate that in those first two years I put on about 25 pounds of muscle while in a moderate deficit.

Is that optimal? I don't know. I've never trained any other way. But have you ever trained with lower volume, less frequency, and high intensity?

 

[Jiigzz]

Yah I've been thinking about changing up my exercises. I've read that Phat is very good for that. Could be a program that's right up my Alley

Phat is a good option. Id run that

 

[kisaj]

I don't know anyone that ran PHAT and said," ya know, that routine sucked".

 

[NoAddedHmones]

I don't know anyone that ran PHAT and said," ya know, that routine sucked".

4 years consistently and still going strong!

 

[Matthew1237]

4 years consistently and still going strong!

Looks like it's working out well for you!!

 

[NoAddedHmones]

Looks like it's working out well for you!!

Yeah dude i always highly recommend it.

 

[Matthew1237]

Id love to give it a shot. Currently I'm doing HST but may have to give this a shot. Does this training work for all? My GF is not really a fan of power days as she thinks she'll get all burly. Would PHAT work just as well for someone who wants to stay lean and toned and not build much size at all or is it just going to feel defeating to her. She would much rather have a body like Jamie Eason than a large bodybuilding girl I tell her getting size is all based off diet.

 

[kisaj]

You need to set her straight and make her stop thinking that nonsense that so many women do first of all. Second, yeah it is a basic layout that incorporates hypertrophy and strength building. It is a very complimentary program, IMO that allows size and definition gains while making sure strength and power are built to support that.

I run it twice a year for 8 weeks normally. I like to work it in after a DC run because I generally have made big gains in strength from DC and then PHAT is just what I like to maintain that strength and add in more definition.

 

[Matthew1237]

You need to set her straight and make her stop thinking that nonsense that so many women do first of all. Second, yeah it is a basic layout that incorporates hypertrophy and strength building. It is a very complimentary program, IMO that allows size and definition gains while making sure strength and power are built to support that. I run it twice a year for 8 weeks normally. I like to work it in after a DC run because I generally have made big gains in strength from DC and then PHAT is just what I like to maintain that strength and add in more definition.

Lol I'll see what I can do

 

[kisaj]

I say it factitiously because it is probably the hardest thing to get a girl to understand. But, the funny thing is that as soon as they see their delts showing or tris popping, they secretly get hooked. I've caught my wife doing a little flexing in the mirror. lol

 

[Matthew1237]

Do you feel PHAT is best for hypertrophy? I know all programs generally do a good job and I've probably answered my own question before. But if you were thinking of a program that would be better for hypertrophy than PHAT what would it be?

 

[kisaj]

PHAT is about as far as I would go personally because I find it imperative to maintain and build strength. But you could also look into HST, which guys on here run with success.

and before all the "there is no discernible difference" posts come...this is my thought and what works for myself.

 

[Matthew1237]

PHAT is about as far as I would go personally because I find it imperative to maintain and build strength. But you could also look into HST, which guys on here run with success. and before all the "there is no discernible difference" posts come...this is my thought and what works for myself.

The post will come. That ONE guy always has to come in and post it. I'm currently running HST. Just wasn't sure if that's the peak of hypertrophy programs.

 

[kisaj]

Ya know, I am really not the utmost authority on those programs as I tend to train more for athletics with focus on strength and power/explosiveness. I do like PHAT because I do like to balance and maintain an overall look, but I think there are others on here who would know more.

These were just my ideas and I really do think you would enjoy PHAT.

 

[NoAddedHmones]

Ya know, I am really not the utmost authority on those programs as I tend to train more for athletics with focus on strength and power/explosiveness. I do like PHAT because I do like to balance and maintain an overall look, but I think there are others on here who would know more. These were just my ideas and I really do think you would enjoy PHAT.

Thats interesting how you do a couple of 8 week blocks a year, would make great gains doing it that way.

i like to periodise my training so i modify my PHAT for a block with power as a focus then a block for hypertrophy as a dominator them an overreaching block where i go real hard on both.

Has worked great and plateaus havent really ever been an issue.

 

[kisaj]

Give examples of your modifications so we can see what you are talking about. I run all programs 8-10 weeks and have great success that way.

 

[Matthew1237]

Give examples of your modifications so we can see what you are talking about. I run all programs 8-10 weeks and have great success that way.

I'm with this guy! Bust it out!!

 

[NoAddedHmones]

Give examples of your modifications so we can see what you are talking about. I run all programs 8-10 weeks and have great success that way.

I generally do 8-12 week blocks depending how im feeling, progression is going etc. Strength block would place a greater emphasis on progessing as much as possible on power days and limiting my total volume on hypertrophy days. Meaning I will place more weighting on progressing my speed sets, lift in range for the compound portions of the workout and have a reduced emphasis on the fk around high rep exercises. Also will have less frequency in each workout rotation ie. More rest days.

A hypertrophy block would be the opposite, more emphasis on hitting the upper range in compound movements on hypertrophy days (adding in additional sets) and the same with the higher rep isolation exercises. My goal is to consistently increase total volume workout on workout. Strength workouts will be more maintenance and progression is much slower. Frequency of my workouts generally increases in this block.

When I overreach I attempt to increase my strength and volume simultaneously and this block is usually between 4-6 weeks before i burn out and deload for a week. Then rinse and repeat.

 

[Matthew1237]

Sounds like a solid practice. Seems like I've just been doing nonstop burnout cycles lol or atleast per HST that is. Although since I've started my cycle I've stopped even trying to lift sub-maximally and just try to do as much as I can for a given rep range. I feel like I'd be wasting out on anabolic strength increases if I didn't. I need to start incorporating a little bit more rest days though as my muscles have become very tight over the last year and it's become a road block for me - gonna rip something lol. I was happy to go see the physiotherapist today.

 

[NoAddedHmones]

Sounds like a solid practice. Seems like I've just been doing nonstop burnout cycles lol or atleast per HST that is. Although since I've started my cycle I've stopped even trying to lift sub-maximally and just try to do as much as I can for a given rep range. I feel like I'd be wasting out on anabolic strength increases if I didn't. I need to start incorporating a little bit more rest days though as my muscles have become very tight over the last year and it's become a road block for me - gonna rip something lol. I was happy to go see the physiotherapist today.

Yeah just got to fine tune what works for your body then anythings achievable be it natty or hormonised.

 

[MyKH3LL]

I was doing, under the guidance and advice of a few blokes around here, a solid 4 day upper/lower split. Had great results actually and then I moved into a GVT run just before I injured my shoulder - I'm still unsure if the higher volume and constant heavy loads were the main contributing factor to that injury because I was very focused on form for the most part, but I was starting to hurt everywhere haha - shoulders, elbows, knees! You name it!

These days now I'm back under the bar and trying to get back to that strength and health, I'm doing a 3 day P/P/L workout and focusing on my self defence training again.So these days my week looks like;

- Monday is Krav Maga for 2 hours (6 - 8 PM)
- Tuesday is PUSH.
- Wednesday is LEGS.
- Thursday is Krav Maga for 2 hours (6 - 8 PM)
- Friday is PULL.

Down the track I might even return to AM training and do the 4 day split again and keep the Krav for my evenings but we'll see how I go.