Should a bodybuilder worry about how much he can lift?

[ClaudioAnimal]

Should a bodybuilder worry about how much he can lift or it is more important to get a good muscle pump?

 

[B5150]

Neither

 

[Rodja]

There is not a cut and dry answer to this.

 

[ClaudioAnimal]

There is not a cut and dry answer to this.

why?

 

[ZiR RED]

In absolute terms, you should not worry about how much you can lift. Competitions are not based upon 1 repetition (or 5 or 10, etc.) maximums, but instead muscular development, maturity, body composition, and posing.

That said, one of the major variables in gaining muscle mass is progressively overloading the muscles. If you cannot provide a greater stimulus, then the muscles have to reason to adapt with growth. The weight (or volume and frequency, to a lesser extent) is that stimulus. Thence, if you are not getting stronger, you are not progressively increasing the stimulus, and adaptations will not follow.
Also, the pump does not provide a stimulus for growth, and soreness is not a good indicator of training productivity.

Br

 

[AaronJP1]

In absolute terms, you should not worry about how much you can lift. Competitions are not based upon 1 repetition (or 5 or 10, etc.) maximums, but instead muscular development, maturity, body composition, and posing.

That said, one of the major variables in gaining muscle mass is progressively overloading the muscles. If you cannot provide a greater stimulus, then the muscles have to reason to adapt with growth. The weight (or volume and frequency, to a lesser extent) is that stimulus. Thence, if you are not getting stronger, you are not progressively increasing the stimulus, and adaptations will not follow.
Also, the pump does not provide a stimulus for growth, and soreness is not a good indicator of training productivity.

Br

Dropped knowledge.

 

[RJW719]

ZiR RED hit the nail on the head!

 

[Torobestia]

How much you lift isn't really a bodybuilder's primary concern, but making progression on your lifts is important. Size follows progression. A guy benching 405x10 is going to be bigger than a guy benching 315x10, etc.

 

[Rodja]

why?

Because each person is unique and there is not a one size fits all scheme for every person regarding 1RM percentage. However, I do gravitate towards DeFranco's line, "A stronger muscle has the potential to be a bigger muscle."

 

[B5150]

Progressive Overloading, Periodization and TUT.

 

[ClaudioAnimal]

A guy benching 405x10 is going to be bigger than a guy benching 315x10, etc.

not necessarily, around the world there's many huge bodybuilders that the weight they can lift doesn't coincide with their physiques, hence my question

 

[Torobestia]

not necessarily, around the world there's many huge bodybuilders that the weight they can lift doesn't coincide with their physiques, hence my question

Let me rephrase; the same guy beching 315 for 10 now, when he benches 405x10 he WILL be bigger.

 

[ClaudioAnimal]

Because each person is unique and there is not a one size fits all scheme for every person regarding 1RM percentage. However, I do gravitate towards DeFranco's line, "A stronger muscle has the potential to be a bigger muscle."

this is all true, but the main problem is the fact that a strong dude is not always huge as well..

 

[ClaudioAnimal]

Let me rephrase; the same guy beching 315 for 10 now, when he benches 405x10 he WILL be bigger.

alright, but now ur talking about the same guy, in ur previous answer you were talking about a comparison between two guys..

 

[Torobestia]

alright, but now ur talking about the same guy, in ur previous answer you were talking about a comparison between two guys..

I was speaking in general terms, and I understand how overanalyzers could have misinterpreted it so I rephrased my statement to make the point clear.

Anyways I think you have you answer in at least a few of the posts, including Zir's and mine.

 

[AaronJP1]

In absolute terms, you should not worry about how much you can lift. Competitions are not based upon 1 repetition (or 5 or 10, etc.) maximums, but instead muscular development, maturity, body composition, and posing.

That said, one of the major variables in gaining muscle mass is progressively overloading the muscles. If you cannot provide a greater stimulus, then the muscles have to reason to adapt with growth. The weight (or volume and frequency, to a lesser extent) is that stimulus. Thence, if you are not getting stronger, you are not progressively increasing the stimulus, and adaptations will not follow.
Also, the pump does not provide a stimulus for growth, and soreness is not a good indicator of training productivity.

Br

Well how come there are some guys with developed muscles, but are not strong...
I guess the question would lie to what is strong to them is the only way I can make sense of it...

Could the progressive overload variables be that they either performed 1 (or more) of what's listed below:

Training some groups twice per week.
Decreasing rest time.
Adding more sets/reps.

Thus if let's say they are adding more sets/reps that's mean they should have absolutely have gotten stronger & could/should move up in weight?

(I'm trying to learn the science behind this.)

 

[JD261985]

Well how come there are some guys with developed muscles, but are not strong...
I guess the question would lie to what is strong to them is the only way I can make sense of it...

Exactly! What is strong to THEM. Everyone is different we all have different levels of strength. What may be light weight for you may be heavy for me

 

[ZiR RED]

Exactly! What is strong to THEM. Everyone is different we all have different levels of strength. What may be light weight for you may be heavy for me

Ugh, semantics.

 

[ZiR RED]

Well how come there are some guys with developed muscles, but are not strong...
I guess the question would lie to what is strong to them is the only way I can make sense of it...

Could the progressive overload variables be that they either performed 1 (or more) of what's listed below:

Training some groups twice per week.
Decreasing rest time.
Adding more sets/reps.

Thus if let's say they are adding more sets/reps that's mean they should have absolutely have gotten stronger & could/should move up in weight?

(I'm trying to learn the science behind this.)

Aaron,

Don't think about my statement in comparing two different individuals. Trying to correlate size to absolute strength among different people is pointless for the sake of this conversation. Think of my statement as within the same person. If your strength increases, it will either directly be due to an increase in muscle size (i.e.: greater muscle fiber cross sectional area due to increased muscle contractile proteins) or indirectly lead to increased size by providing a larger stimuli capacity.

You are correct in stating that progressive overload can be achieved by improved frequency toleration, fatigue toleration, or work load capacity. While improvements in these variables will overload the muscle, the adaptations will also be specific. For example, fatigue toleration (reduced rest time) will be associated with more muscular endurance adaptations, such as increased glycogen stores, increased anaerobic enzymes (ability to produce energy by breaking down glucose/glycogen), increased capillary density, etc. etc. Some of these adaptations will lead to muscle fiber hypertrophy.

Where I was going with my statement, is that concentrated strength loading (while maybe not directly resulting in major hypertrophy) will improve the capacity for muscle growth during concentrated hypertrophy based loading.

In simple terms, you spend 4 weeks using very low reps (1-4) and increase your bench press 1 rm from 250 to 280 pounds. Now, the muscle gains associated with this are not going to be of a significant magnitude, but...

You then perform a hypertrophy loading cycle. In it, you are using 3x10 reps with 80% of your 1 rm.

If you did not perform the concentrated strength training then the load used would be about 200 pounds. 200 x 10 x 3 = 6000 volume units
Compare that to 80% of 280, 224 lbs. 224 x 10 x 3 = 6720 volume units You are using about 10% more volume. If you increase the sets to improve workload tolerance, then the difference in volume becomes even more apparent.

So, we should see that the increase in strength will increase the overall capacity for growth by allowing for a greater potential stimuli during the hypertrophy based training.

I hope that makes sense and helps to clarify.

Br

 

[AaronJP1]

Aaron,

Don't think about my statement in comparing two different individuals. Trying to correlate size to absolute strength among different people is pointless for the sake of this conversation. Think of my statement as within the same person. If your strength increases, it will either directly be due to an increase in muscle size (i.e.: greater muscle fiber cross sectional area due to increased muscle contractile proteins) or indirectly lead to increased size by providing a larger stimuli capacity.

You are correct in stating that progressive overload can be achieved by improved frequency toleration, fatigue toleration, or work load capacity. While improvements in these variables will overload the muscle, the adaptations will also be specific. For example, fatigue toleration (reduced rest time) will be associated with more muscular endurance adaptations, such as increased glycogen stores, increased anaerobic enzymes (ability to produce energy by breaking down glucose/glycogen), increased capillary density, etc. etc. Some of these adaptations will lead to muscle fiber hypertrophy.

Where I was going with my statement, is that concentrated strength loading (while maybe not directly resulting in major hypertrophy) will improve the capacity for muscle growth during concentrated hypertrophy based loading.

In simple terms, you spend 4 weeks using very low reps (1-4) and increase your bench press 1 rm from 250 to 280 pounds. Now, the muscle gains associated with this are not going to be of a significant magnitude, but...

You then perform a hypertrophy loading cycle. In it, you are using 3x10 reps with 80% of your 1 rm.

If you did not perform the concentrated strength training then the load used would be about 200 pounds. 200 x 10 x 3 = 6000 volume units
Compare that to 80% of 280, 224 lbs. 224 x 10 x 3 = 6720 volume units You are using about 10% more volume. If you increase the sets to improve workload tolerance, then the difference in volume becomes even more apparent.

So, we should see that the increase in strength will increase the overall capacity for growth by allowing for a greater potential stimuli during the hypertrophy based training.

I hope that makes sense and helps to clarify.

Br

Thank you, makes tons of sense and totally understandable, you made it easy as I couldn't really exlplain that...
Basically you gain strength & are to perform greater reps (or same amount reps) with a heavier load.