results from the FDA supplement tests for the BB.com Raid so far.

[hardknock]

If they are truly harmful they should not be on the shelves.I would like to see real evidence,not propaganda from big Pharma and congressmen who don't have a clue what they are talking about.Once supplements are banned,think about how much they will charge for prescriptions.

From the research Ive seen its not safe at all. There is a lot of data showing it to be toxic and its related to a lot of structures that are either controlled drugs because of their side effects and abuse potential as well as being analogues to a lot of scheduled drugs for the same reason.

I would be worried about the sale of a controlled substance, then the toxicity and safety. Im shocked that they would admit to using something like this, even if its similar to this its likely not good because it either hasnt ever been used in humans or lab animals (which is scary) or it has and its been shown to not be safe.

^^^^^
This is what an unnamed source (impartial source), whom, along with patrick arnold and another well known chemist from BB.com had to say about anabolic xtreme's Slim Xtreme...since then the product was pulled until further notice.

Now, this is not some propaganda being drummed up by the government. It is a well known fact that many of the "good ol boy" companies that you guys trust, spike their products with unlisted ingredients and then cry that they never knew about it (I did not say that they ALL DID THIS, but more than a handful do and have been doing it). Or say that they never knew that it would convert into xxx if this or that happened. Take the covers from over your head's guys...this sh@t is a real threat. And, we are all to blame for giving the FDA the gasoline to pour on the fire.

 

[Zero V]

^^^^^
This is what an unnamed source (impartial source), whom, along with patrick arnold and another well known chemist from BB.com had to say about anabolic xtreme's Slim Xtreme...since then the product was pulled until further notice.

Now, this is not some propaganda being drummed up by the government. It is a well known fact that many of the "good ol boy" companies that you guys trust, spike their products with unlisted ingredients and then cry that they never knew about it (I did not say that they ALL DID THIS, but more than a handful do and have been doing it). Or say that they never knew that it would convert into xxx if this or that happened. Take the covers from over your head's guys...this sh@t is a real threat. And, we are all to blame for giving the FDA the gasoline to pour on the fire.

Honestly slim xtreme is one of the best products I have taken...then again which controlled substance are they saying it has an ingrediant similar to? There is no way I will dump my bottle, I will just be sad as Irun out of pills

 

[dpfisher]

Honestly slim xtreme is one of the best products I have taken...then again which controlled substance are they saying it has an ingrediant similar to? There is no way I will dump my bottle, I will just be sad as Irun out of pills

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/anabolic-xtreme/135556-whatd-you-sell.html

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=462408

I was gonna use their aPCT but after seeing this I'm kind of worried about taking anything from them. I think I'll find another product.

And yeah "cardiovascular toxicity" is not really a phrase I like to see. Be careful man.

 

[hardknock]

^x2

I'll put it like this juice, let's just forget about a steroid analogue, etc. Let us just look at the supplement industry as a whole. Look at the number of OTHER PRODUCTS that have so many obscure ingredients. Yet, you have many people running around 200 bodybuilding boards screaming that "the company puts the label ingredients on the label"

NO THEY DO NOT. Some of them do, but hell, they all do not do it. Look at jungle warfare, slime extreme, hyperdrol, mass tabs? Hell, look at that crap that muscle tech puts out....but guess what? They just are lying about the benefit that you get from taking their product. Their ingredients actually check out, crappy ingredients but still...so they are basically guilty of false advertisement and exaggerated label claims.

say you have a clone that says superdrol. Ok, so there is superdrol in there. But, what else may be in there? The label says SD? No one is going to look further because it is a given that SD is pretty harsh, so it's not like someone is saying they have sugar in the bottle and it puts on 20lbs in 4 weeks. That statement would cause people to question it. However, lets say it has a little PP in there? Or a little tren? Someone like PA comes along and says that there is two peaks when tested but he cannot identify the other product?

What do you do?
Do you just read the logs and say, i'll take it anyway

Or

Do you try to wait and see what else is in the product then make an educated decision? Most would probably take it anyway....Next thing you know you have tits and pissing blood (extreme example but you get my point)...

 

[hardknock]

Honestly slim xtreme is one of the best products I have taken...then again which controlled substance are they saying it has an ingrediant similar to? There is no way I will dump my bottle, I will just be sad as Irun out of pills

EDIT:

Read below post

 

[hardknock]

a few high level chemists have analysed this product. the results they got were not easy to interpret but they teamed up and came to the conclusion that this product apparently contains a substantial amount of a designer drug stimulant.

This designer stimulant have been hidden on the label under the term "aminoslim4". to add to the deception, there were quite a few studies cited in the product write-up that referenced to certain amino acids (proline) that have NOTHing to do with the designer drug.

Is this designer drug dangerous? nobody knows for sure. however, it's sibling (a designer drug that is extremely close WRT chemical structure) has been dropped by Dutch smartshops because of cardiotoxicity (i.e. bad for your heart).

Reps of said company first claimed that the speculations based on the chemical analyses were "100% wrong" and that their "substance" were "100% safe" and that people who were speculationg on the deisgner drugs were "jealous drama queens".

Now, the reps are all gone from bb.com, AX has stopped producing this product, bb.com pulled the entire AX line from the bb.com store, Anabolic minds forum removed the link to the AX company subforum and the alleged formulator ("Dr.D") has been said to be not available because he is in the hospital expecting the birth of his child.

From a BB.com poster (dr_p whom had been following the whole deal)...i'll have to look for the actual thread...i think here:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=119112401

 

[juice3320]

Great point and dually noted. No I do not condone taking the manufactures words for it. I do, however, wait for logs/feeback/etc. on the product before personally ingesting it. The fact that we are the test subjects for supplement companies is a very real fact and I could not agree more that caution needs to be extended to EVERY situation dealing with these supplements. However, the claims being made on most of these products are just to make the general public concensus happy and therefore use that as a rationale to take action. I do agree that there are ALOT of problems with some of these supps, however, there is also alot of problems with misunderstanding these supplements.

I'll put it like this juice, let's just forget about a steroid analogue, etc. Let us just look at the supplement industry as a whole. Look at the number of OTHER PRODUCTS that have so many obscure ingredients. Yet, you have many people running around 200 bodybuilding boards screaming that "the company puts the label ingredients on the label"

NO THEY DO NOT. Some of them do, but hell, they all do not do it. Look at jungle warfare, slime extreme, hyperdrol, mass tabs? Hell, look at that crap that muscle tech puts out....but guess what? They just are lying about the benefit that you get from taking their product. Their ingredients actually check out, crappy ingredients but still...so they are basically guilty of false advertisement and exaggerated label claims.

say you have a clone that says superdrol. Ok, so there is superdrol in there. But, what else may be in there? The label says SD? No one is going to look further because it is a given that SD is pretty harsh, so it's not like someone is saying they have sugar in the bottle and it puts on 20lbs in 4 weeks. That statement would cause people to question it. However, lets say it has a little PP in there? Or a little tren? Someone like PA comes along and says that there is two peaks when tested but he cannot identify the other product?

What do you do?
Do you just read the logs and say, i'll take it anyway

Or

Do you try to wait and see what else is in the product then make an educated decision? Most would probably take it anyway....Next thing you know you have tits and pissing blood (extreme example but you get my point)...

 

[PrepNwa23]

Didn't know Dr. D was the creator of SlimXtreme.

 

[Iron Lungz]

There's a lot of NEW items with his stamp on it.

Didn't know Dr. D was the creator of SlimXtreme.

 

[Liftingstud]

There's a lot of NEW items with his stamp on it.

what other ones does he have?


Also, about HDx2... because its 6 bromo does it show up as "andro"... kinda like 6oxo would?

 

[kjkriston]

Since this is a little off topic but in the same realm....as far as things claiming to be what they are not. What the F was in Jungle Warfare anyway? I have a bottle but was reluctant to run it because it seemed no one really knew what was in it? Anyone know if it was methyl-atd or something else completely?

 

[Liftingstud]

Since this is a little off topic but in the same realm....as far as things claiming to be what they are not. What the F was in Jungle Warfare anyway? I have a bottle but was reluctant to run it because it seemed no one really knew what was in it? Anyone know if it was methyl-atd or something else completely?

JW has gone through many "reformulation." the org was suppose to have a mild PH in it but hard to trust any company that does that once... so who knows... but most people report the newer stuff is not close to the older stuff.

 

[PrepNwa23]

I knew Dr. D was creator of Glycbol but didn't know what else his stamp was on.

 

[texastweeter]

so when will we know what, if any of these will be completely banned? I know a couple of companies are pulling products already, dont know if they were advised to or if they are just getting scared. I sure hope this is all jsut a scare tactic and it blow over quickly.

 

[Kristofer68SS]

so when will we know what, if any of these will be completely banned? I know a couple of companies are pulling products already, dont know if they were advised to or if they are just getting scared. I sure hope this is all jsut a scare tactic and it blow over quickly.

this one is not blowing over, its changing the industry.

 

[jay21]

anybody catch the mass tabs up there ? ^^^^^turns out they WERE Superdrol...haha S.O.B. solved that mystery i guess ha.

LMAO i love you man this just seemed soo funny to me

 

[jay21]

How about what the Bold tested to be????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ok can anyone explain to em this, wat did it test to be> is it strong>?

 

[prld2gr8ns]

This is a copy of the email l sent to the FDA the email address is [email protected] send them your opinion of their stupidity. Here is the email l sent;

Great so instead of cleaning up the tobacco industry and the fast food
industry which are the 2 main reasons your country has health care
problems you go after the health food industry and target bodybuilding
supplements. WHAT A MAJOR FAILURE OF YOUR RESOURCES . When are going
to do something that will really make a difference when you stop
pandering to the tobacco companies and fast food companies.
--

The goverment makes about 12 billion dollars off taxing the tobacco companies each year. 2nd highest revenue stream for the goverment, behind personal taxes. It's not going anywhere.

 

[dpfisher]

ok can anyone explain to em this, wat did it test to be> is it strong>?

I'm guessing because the "bold" (1,4AD) is a modified version of that base (4AD) it shows up the same on whatever test they were using. I believe it's exactly what it was claimed to be, or trace amounts leftover from manufacturing. Note: I am not a chemist.

 

[wontstop985]

ok can anyone explain to em this, wat did it test to be> is it strong>?

It contains 4-ad.

 

[jay21]

the original right? which means that actually that supps is VERYY potent>?

 

[Iron Lungz]

What are you trying to say? :blink:

the original right? which means that actually that supps is VERYY potent>?

 

[wontstop985]

the original right? which means that actually that supps is VERYY potent>?

Yea if you took enough of it. The thing we don't know is how much 4-ad is in it. Also, all 6-bromo supplements contain some amount of 4-ad, but how much, we don't know... It may be a very small amount due to the manufacturing process, but the more effective ones might well be full of it - who knows?

 

[DAdams91982]

Man... this is kinda funny in a sense. People like myself and Iron has been screaming about this crap for awhile now, and nobody wanted to open their eyes and peel their lips off some company ass, even with their health in possible jeopardy.

 

[Iron Lungz]

Eh, what to do?
At least some are waking up now.

Man... this is kinda funny in a sense. People like myself and Iron has been screaming about this crap for awhile now, and nobody wanted to open their eyes and peel their lips off some company ass, even with their health in possible jeopardy.

 

[DAdams91982]

Eh, what to do?
At least some are waking up now.

Cyno-what?

 

[kjkriston]

JW has gone through many "reformulation." the org was suppose to have a mild PH in it but hard to trust any company that does that once... so who knows... but most people report the newer stuff is not close to the older stuff.

This si the green label bottle. If I am correct the claim from ALRI....shady bastards that they are.....was it had methyl-atd in it. People started claiming that it had a ph in it.......just trying to see what I've got, and if it can be used without PCT.

 

[BBB]

this one is not blowing over, its changing the industry.

The industry needs a enema.

 

[kjkriston]

agreed....just hope the "new" batch that will emerge will do it quickly, effectively and with some ingenuity.

 

[dpfisher]

this one is not blowing over, its changing the industry.

The next loophole will be packages, 3 bottles of all natural compounds and a label that says

WARNING: DO NOT MIX THESE TOGETHER WITH DRAIN CLEANER, PAINT STRIPPER, ADD CONCRETE CLEANER TO NEUTRAL PH, CONCENTRATE AND CONSUME 50MG PER DAY WITH APPROPRIATE PCT

 

[Zero V]

The next loophole will be packages, 3 bottles of all natural compounds and a label that says

WARNING: DO NOT MIX THESE TOGETHER WITH DRAIN CLEANER, PAINT STRIPPER, ADD CONCRETE CLEANER TO NEUTRAL PH, CONCENTRATE AND CONSUME 50MG PER DAY WITH APPROPRIATE PCT

The issues is really solved like this...

*walks into gym* "hey big joe, can I buy some of your steroids?"

done...

Well obviously alot more complicated, but really its fueling people to go from legal to illegal.

Though honestly I have slowed my roll to consider the risks in the last few days. And unless something falls in my lap, I will be perfectly happy being natural forever. Some of it comes from arguing with iron,D, and Bfifty...

I still want my freedoms though -,-

 

[Iron Lungz]

Some of it comes from arguing with iron,D, and Bfifty...

We do it out of love, man.

 

[Zero V]

We do it out of love, man.

Some of it I suspect lol. I have grown alot thanks to many conflicts on this board (say my more original faith based ones, eh?) But sometimes not. :swordfight:

And thanks on a side not lol.

 

[kjkriston]

This is the green label bottle. If I am correct the claim from ALRI....shady bastards that they are.....was it had methyl-atd in it. People started claiming that it had a ph in it.......just trying to see what I've got, and if it can be used without PCT.

^ In reference to Jungle warfare

Not trying to be obnoxious but does anyone have any other info on this stuff.....

 

[hardknock]

The issues is really solved like this...

*walks into gym* "hey big joe, can I buy some of your steroids?"

done...

Well obviously alot more complicated, but really its fueling people to go from legal to illegal.

Though honestly I have slowed my roll to consider the risks in the last few days. And unless something falls in my lap, I will be perfectly happy being natural forever. Some of it comes from arguing with iron,D, and Bfifty...

I still want my freedoms though -,-

One thing to remember though. It was always illegal to sell actual steroids as dietary supplements..

If it the write up on product xxx portrays things in a certain way then it can be deemed as making medical claims which is also in violation because then it isn't a dietary supplement.

 

[Zero V]

One thing to remember though. It was always illegal to sell actual steroids as dietary supplements..

If it the write up on product xxx portrays things in a certain way then it can be deemed as making medical claims which is also in violation because then it isn't a dietary supplement.

True I have come to realize this being one of the bigger issues.

What could they have labeled it. It was really not a supplement. But in all honesty it could have been allowed to be legal nad marketed under a different category of product. Were talking behind the counter, show me your ID kinda stuff. You know how liqueur is controlled, but sold. Same deal.

 

[heath1225]

so...the chart says "basis for probable cause." so do you think the ingredients listed are actually what the FDA found in the products or just what they suspect are in them? And Mass Tabs definitely disappoint me if they are Superdrol.

 

[hardknock]

so...the chart says "basis for probable cause." so do you think the ingredients listed are actually what the FDA found in the products or just what they suspect are in them? And Mass Tabs definitely disappoint me if they are Superdrol.

I don't recall the tests saying what the amount was in terms of mg per capsule (fda testing). Mass tabs say 30mg or whatever it does say, so some assumed the fda found 30mg of SD. Yet, it may be 2mg of SD and 27 mg of filler.

I don't know if the fda allows a variance when it comes to steroid compounds being included in a mixture as the same as insects are allowed in canned goods (what is it, 1 percent of a line of can goods can have a bug or two?) I am pretty sure there is no variance for drugs in a mixture of a 'supplement' but I'm not sure as I stated.

 

[Psychabinol]

This could possibly be the start of a team of rogue chemists trying to garner the FDA's attention, in order to get the goverment to actually regulate the supplement industry. It should be regulated.

Thats one theory, but overall, this thing thats happening not just in these bodybuilding, but in the health industry.

I was right before, and my comments were taking of the site. Because the people who have money in control, not the many people who make comments.

It was obvious the SX contained something greater than what was labeled.

Haha, i might actually buy some now, that i know whats in it.

Lot of products, have now been shown to be spiked with something.

An attack on the pharmeceutical industry, it could possibly be.

Rogue chemists wanting to give us our free liberties to use whatever substance we want,possibly.

 

[hardknock]

True I have come to realize this being one of the bigger issues.

What could they have labeled it. It was really not a supplement. But in all honesty it could have been allowed to be legal nad marketed under a different category of product. Were talking behind the counter, show me your ID kinda stuff. You know how liqueur is controlled, but sold. Same deal.

Perhaps in some strange turn of events, it could/they could have been marketed for prescription purposes only. But that would only be through big pharma. There is no way that these small supp companies could possibly fund thje actual creation of a steroid as big pharma puts out millions of dollars and years of research. And I highly doubt that any of these small 'supp' companies would be given license to perform it.

So, in essence, it is like I've been saying all the time, they will eventually put you in a catch 22 position. You can't do one without the other and you can't do the other because you are not licensed...rock and a hard spot.

 

[Psychabinol]

one thing they need to put in these supplements are some designer sedatives. maybe Alri's new comotose products contain this? We know this company has done so in the past.

Is anyone really suprised that AX put that in SX, its called anabolic xtreme for a reason. I mean they orginally sold designer steriods.
Hyperdrol X2 is a suprise, id want to know more info on that if its absolutely true.

What the government needs to do is make all drugs legal, which i foresee withing 20-50 years, or shorter perhaps. This its what its leading to. You cant stop the American urge for wanting to be better than normal.

 

[Psychabinol]

Perhaps in some strange turn of events, it could/they could have been marketed for prescription purposes only. But that would only be through big pharma. There is no way that these small supp companies could possibly fund thje actual creation of a steroid as big pharma puts out millions of dollars and years of research. And I highly doubt that any of these small 'supp' companies would be given license to perform it.

So, in essence, it is like I've been saying all the time, they will eventually put you in a catch 22 position. You can't do one without the other and you can't do the other because you are not licensed...rock and a hard spot.

yeah but if all drugs were legal, including steriods, people wouldnt have to use these crappy designer supplements.

but then big pharma wouldnt be able to sell test cream for hundreds of dolars.

Then again, this recent fda attack could be a response from the Obama administration in order to radically change the health industry by using underground tactics, because you know you cant fight with big pharma.

 

[Kernkraft]

Honestly slim xtreme is one of the best products I have taken...then again which controlled substance are they saying it has an ingrediant similar to? There is no way I will dump my bottle, I will just be sad as Irun out of pills

go to bb.com's supplement science section and in there you will find what AX's SX turned out to be...

2-Diphenylmethylpyrrolidine I believe is what I was told.

 

[Zero V]

go to bb.com's supplement science section and in there you will find what AX's SX turned out to be...

2-Diphenylmethylpyrrolidine I believe is what I was told.

ah. I thought their section was yanked from over there too?

Did they know what they had in there, or did they not even know what they were playing with? I love their products, but still I like info. They were supposed to release alot of info after they got a certain patent on slim x. Now we know that is never happening.

What would that be similar to?

Honestly when I described my feelings on slim x(suc has how it effected my softball abilities) people said it sounded like I was talking about speed. Which after talking with my father, who was talking about the old "black beauties" which was legal speed sold as a diet pill apparantly that truck drivers used to make the long hauls without passing out.

 

[mark118]

this was apart of the AFFIDAVIT w/ the SEARCH WARRANT

these arent the results are they? just had another look and at the top it says basis for probable cause and not result of test

 

[luclyluciano]

You're right, there seems to be errors in there like SPAWN not containing EPI?

 

[keeper]

^^ Thanks, Mark. That is an important little detail.

 

[Iron Lungz]

It's not an error, for it may not contain the epithio compound in the first place.

You're right, there seems to be errors in there like SPAWN not containing EPI?

 

[hardknock]

yeah but if all drugs were legal, including steriods, people wouldnt have to use these crappy designer supplements.

but then big pharma wouldnt be able to sell test cream for hundreds of dolars.

Then again, this recent fda attack could be a response from the Obama administration in order to radically change the health industry by using underground tactics, because you know you cant fight with big pharma.

Let's not go throwing the recent president's name in this just yetm These particular investigations have been going on since early 08.

 

[strategicmove]

It's not an error, for it may not contain the epithio compound in the first place.

Exactly what I meant to write. In case of doubt, I would prefer to believe the FDA's tests than the steroid manufacturer's claims.