Putting Sustain Alpha through the test as HCG alternative.

[pistonpump]

cool man! Congrats, I am interested to see how this comes back.

me too!

 

[crowpass]

sub

 

[crzyyoungn]

Any updates???

 

[pistonpump]

the last test didnt go so well. i could not get enough blood no matter how much i tried. i even poked myself more with 23g needle but still. I was getting very frustrated. this is even with moving my arm around to get blood moving beforehand. I hope they got enough on the second test. still no results.

 

[Flyboy]

should have broken out the knife.... lol

 

[angel77]

wouldn't having to re-test make the whole purpose of this void? I was thinking it was a timing thing from the time you were on cycle to off? Will you still see results that matter? Just wondering.

 

[pistonpump]

wouldn't having to re-test make the whole purpose of this void? I was thinking it was a timing thing from the time you were on cycle to off? Will you still see results that matter? Just wondering.

yeah a retest would fcck the whole thing up but what can i do, i got as much blood as i could get out. maybe doing it right after getting up didnt help cuz circulation is poor. I tried my best, hand under warm water first, side of finger prick, squeezing my arm, milking my arm, new finger prick, moving arm around prior and still couldnt get much blood out.

im not sure what you mean with you other questions.

 

[coolbreeze]

are 10 pumps comparable to about 100 iu HCG? If so then wouldnt HCG still be a much more cost effective route for those of us w/limited funds?

 

[EasyEJL]

are 10 pumps comparable to about 100 iu HCG? If so then wouldnt HCG still be a much more cost effective route for those of us w/limited funds?

no needles, no illegality. slin pins costs you an extra $1 for every 2-3 injections just in needles, don't forget that part

 

[Steveoph]

no needles, no illegality. slin pins costs you an extra $1 for every 2-3 injections just in needles, don't forget that part

Not to mention the wide-ranging benefits of resveratrol.

 

[Eric Potratz]

the last test didnt go so well. i could not get enough blood no matter how much i tried. i even poked myself more with 23g needle but still. I was getting very frustrated. this is even with moving my arm around to get blood moving beforehand. I hope they got enough on the second test. still no results.

Did you get any blood drops with the finger prick?

-Eric

 

[pistonpump]

Did you get any blood drops with the finger prick?

-Eric

i got 2 good ones, 1 with each finger then the rest would not drop they were like half drops. Sorry Eric, i did the best i could with the test, i was going insane cuz i didnt know what else to do already.

 

[pistonpump]

so 4 days before PCT i get the stomach flu/virus, diarreha non stop, cant eat anything, bloating etc for 3 days! Its been about 5 days now and im introducing solid foods back in my diet but damn i could put nothing in my stomach, even water seemed to go right thru me. I lost almost 15lbs in less than a week, things could not have happened at a better time. Makes me question getting big anymore, i lose weight so easily its not even funny. I was only able to take sustain alpha and 120mg torem for the past 3 days and ive only trained once in the past 6 days. Not good.

 

[pistonpump]

turns out i didnt lose that much weight, scale error. Im getting my food back in me now and feeling better but pct blues are coming on.

still no sign of test results........

 

[Eric Potratz]

i got 2 good ones, 1 with each finger then the rest would not drop they were like half drops. Sorry Eric, i did the best i could with the test, i was going insane cuz i didnt know what else to do already.

Did you get those 2 drops sent in?

-Eric

 

[pistonpump]

i sent them awhile ago, still waiting...

 

[Steveoph]

i sent them awhile ago, still waiting...

Slow ZRT labs

 

[pistonpump]

Slow ZRT labs

i know, tell me about it.

 

[John Smeton]

Piston can you update the thread on what day you took the test, what compounds you were on..phera right?

I was expecting results sooner. PP,are there any more people trying this experiment? of so please post results and lab work.

 

[Eric Potratz]

Piston can you update the thread on what day you took the test, what compounds you were on..phera right?

I was expecting results sooner. PP,are there any more people trying this experiment? of so please post results and lab work.

Yes, a couple others from the board have tested it, and we are still waiting on results from a guys on other boards.

I was going to gather a compilation as soon as we get a couple more results in.

-Eric

 

[pistonpump]

i got test results but i need to have a look at them and update this. LH actually went down. I will update when i get home or within the next day or two.

 

[Knowbull]

Why doesnt someone just a get a draw and do a multi-channel. A male hormonal profile is available through LEF at a reasonable price. This would end the ambiguity. Whoops, sorry perhaps thats already been done and we're just waiting for the results to be posted.

 

[pistonpump]

3/1/2009 3/5/2009
LH 0.7 Low LH <0.2 Low
FSH 2.1 ok FSH 0.5 Low

Normal Range (adult male)
LH 1.0-8.4
FSH 1.0-10.5

 

[nunes]

3/1/2009 3/5/2009
LH 0.7 Low LH <0.2 Low
FSH 2.1 ok FSH 0.5 Low

Normal Range (adult male)
LH 1.0-8.4
FSH 1.0-10.5

in what period of your cycle were you when you made that test?

 

[pistonpump]

i was in the the final two weeks, with the 20mg mdrol and 20mg epi

 

[Hank Vangut]

3/1/2009 3/5/2009
LH 0.7 Low LH <0.2 Low
FSH 2.1 ok FSH 0.5 Low

Normal Range (adult male)
LH 1.0-8.4
FSH 1.0-10.5

so this did not work as an HCG alternative for you.

 

[nunes]

i was in the the final two weeks, with the 20mg mdrol and 20mg epi

I don't think its very bad, with that values you should at least maintain some test production so the balls were still working

 

[Dragon13]

Hmmm. Not so good. Curious as to what Eric might have to say about these poor results.

 

[nunes]

Hmmm. Not so good. Curious as to what Eric might have to say about these poor results.

I don't think they are poor , if the leydig cells are highly sensitive to lh they produce test even on low lh levels, we need to see the testosterone results to jump to a conclusion, having the htpa working on a suppressive cycle like the one that piston made its already a good thing

 

[Dragon13]

I don't think they are poor , if the leydig cells are highly sensitive to lh they produce test even on low lh levels, we need to see the testosterone results to jump to a conclusion, having the htpa working on a suppressive cycle like the one that piston made its already a good thing

No. Sustain as an HCG alternative is intended to increase GrRH, and as a result increase LH and FSH. They both declined, indicating further suppression. Leydig sensitivity is not relevant for what is being tested.

 

[Eric Potratz]

the last test didnt go so well. i could not get enough blood no matter how much i tried. i even poked myself more with 23g needle but still. I was getting very frustrated. this is even with moving my arm around to get blood moving beforehand. I hope they got enough on the second test. still no results.

Did you get the blood on the second test from the finger prick or the 23g needle?

-Eric

 

[buster0371]

sustain alpha does not work as and hcg alternative then?

 

[John Smeton]

sustain alpha does not work as and hcg alternative then?

This test does not seem to say so on paper.

 

[Brother]

Bummer

 

[TheeBC]

Ill have to buy more HCG instead of Sustain. ohh well, more needles, more fun!

I couldn't imagine the results being that great, as he continues to suppress himself, hes trying to recover. Lets try sobering up with more alcohol!

 

[Knowbull]

Well sustain is doing something, for energy, mood, pump. I doubt that its placebo. Too bad you cant get a double blind done, or a before, during and after. Im sure guys have volunteered, you wouldnt need a control group.

 

[Dragon13]

Well sustain is doing something, for energy, mood, pump. I doubt that its placebo. Too bad you cant get a double blind done, or a before, during and after. Im sure guys have volunteered, you wouldnt need a control group.

I'm more than willing to believe the product works for natty guys or guys off cycle, even PCT. It just appears, at least from this one test, that using it as an HCG alternative is a bit too optimistic.

 

[Steveoph]

^^^
:goodpost:
I know Eric has been conducting a number of similar bloodwork tests. By having a larger n , it will give us more significant results. Perhaps we will find it can only stimulate the LH/FSH on less suppressive cycles; we shall see.

 

[Knowbull]

I'm more than willing to believe the product works for natty guys or guys off cycle, even PCT. It just appears, at least from this one test, that using it as an HCG alternative is a bit too optimistic.

I used it during a couple cycles and Im positive it delayed and minimized the "feeling" of shut-down, it also increased muscle volume in a "ka-boom" kind of way.

 

[Eric Potratz]

Yeah, this is only one user who tested at the tail end of a cycle (not our recommended time to start the on-cycle protocol anyway)

Considering the way the second test went, the results may be invalid. Capillary blood will not give the same results as venous blood, so I’m still trying to find out how pistonpump extracted the blood for the second blood test. (he mentioned using a 23g needle)

We have results that are more promising that this test, so we will continue to test in users.

-Eric

 

[John Smeton]

I used it during a couple cycles and Im positive it delayed and minimized the "feeling" of shut-down, it also increased muscle volume in a "ka-boom" kind of way.

good to hear

Yeah, this is only one user who tested at the tail end of a cycle (not our recommended time to start the on-cycle protocol anyway)

Considering the way the second test went, the results may be invalid. Capillary blood will not give the same results as venous blood, so I’m still trying to find out how pistonpump extracted the blood for the second blood test. (he mentioned using a 23g needle)

We have results that are more promising that this test, so we will continue to test in users.

-Eric

lets see them.

 

[Eric Potratz]

lets see them.

Im holding them back from you smeton



But seriously, Id like to gather a couple more test results to present a more convincing case...

-Eric

 

[John Smeton]

so the conclusion seems to be from the test presented it worked for a natural testostrone booster or pct, if you do hormones and it may be worth doing the last week if your on a short four week cycle and into pct. Okay well thats better than nothing! Thanks for the reviews

 

[Knowbull]

so the conclusion seems to be from the test presented it worked for a natural testostrone booster or pct, if you do hormones and it may be worth doing the last week if your on a short four week cycle and into pct. Okay well thats better than nothing! Thanks for the reviews

On a 4 or a 6, introduce it at day 10, eod til end, then ed for 4 or 6, throw in or pre-load with the Endo and T8 for good measure, a guy wouldnt have to worry about "having a serm on hand" provided he was sensible and modest with his dosing. Not to mention minimizing his yearly cycles. JMO It takes more than 1 bottle though. Personally Im tired of hearing about lab results that arent verifiable, I dont think a Physician or a hospital would accept those test results, Im sure this has been discussed elsewhere and on other boards, if it produces the results you want, it works, if it doesnt, then its useless and a guy shouldnt buy it or use it.If you're serious about this, some people need to get multi-channels, before and after, IMO anything less than that is a waste of time and money.

 

[pistonpump]

Did you get the blood on the second test from the finger prick or the 23g needle?

-Eric

both

 

[pistonpump]

Yeah, this is only one user who tested at the tail end of a cycle (not our recommended time to start the on-cycle protocol anyway)

Considering the way the second test went, the results may be invalid. Capillary blood will not give the same results as venous blood, so I’m still trying to find out how pistonpump extracted the blood for the second blood test. (he mentioned using a 23g needle)

We have results that are more promising that this test, so we will continue to test in users.

-Eric

im sure its the same blood. i slightly pricked it with the needle tip so it would have the same effect its not like i went deep with the needle. Even if the second test drew less blood then the first it doesnt matter because its measured by concentration anyway right? meaning if there was half the amount of blood on the second test then the result of LH and FSH findings would just be doubled and compared to the first test...thats how im thinking it would work.

With Sustain as an HCG alternative isnt it recommended to take 5 pumps or something along that line? I was taking 10pumps so that could have been too much. Personally i thought the tests should be ran differently but this is the way Eric wanted to do it. I wanted to use the sustain a little longer and test farther apart instead of the 3 days we did here.

Anyway I still think sustain is a good product i would use it again on or off cycle.

 

[Eric Potratz]

im sure its the same blood. i slightly pricked it with the needle tip so it would have the same effect its not like i went deep with the needle. Even if the second test drew less blood then the first it doesnt matter because its measured by concentration anyway right? meaning if there was half the amount of blood on the second test then the result of LH and FSH findings would just be doubled and compared to the first test...thats how im thinking it would work.

With Sustain as an HCG alternative isnt it recommended to take 5 pumps or something along that line? I was taking 10pumps so that could have been too much. Personally i thought the tests should be ran differently but this is the way Eric wanted to do it. I wanted to use the sustain a little longer and test farther apart instead of the 3 days we did here.

Anyway I still think sustain is a good product i would use it again on or off cycle.

Its not the amount of blood that makes a difference, it’s the type of blood. The venous and capillary blood holds different concentrations of hormones, and that’s why I wanted to verify that you got blood from the capillary vessel bed, rather than a vein.

Can you email me the test docs?

-Eric

 

[pistonpump]

Its not the amount of blood that makes a difference, it’s the type of blood. The venous and capillary blood holds different concentrations of hormones, and that’s why I wanted to verify that you got blood from the capillary vessel bed, rather than a vein.

Can you email me the test docs?

-Eric

i was just stating that the quantity wouldnt matter. I understand what you are saying about the venous and capillary blood but i was saying it is probably capillary blood because i pricked it the same way as the lancet would....

i dont have a scanner available but maybe i can mail them to you if you like?

 

[nunes]

No. Sustain as an HCG alternative is intended to increase GrRH, and as a result increase LH and FSH. They both declined, indicating further suppression. Leydig sensitivity is not relevant for what is being tested.

sorry , you`re right about that, in this particular case lh should be higher
good point, reps

 

[coolbreeze]

no needles, no illegality. slin pins costs you an extra $1 for every 2-3 injections just in needles, don't forget that part

sure but HCG is subQ - anyone can do SubQ, only a needle phobia would stop that. HCG type analogues are available on some of the Research Chem sites so it does not seem illegal.