Proviron/AI stacked while on test cycle

[KenTheEagle]

Ive been debating this with some friends and also debating on this forum. id like to get some feedback on this one, i think proviron is something really worth, since its merely DHT and ive found some texts and posts from trusted members, that the best you can do on a cycle is to get a mass builder, a test base and DHT in order to create a synergy... now since i will use test i am aware that i need to control estrogen on cycle... so the question is, if i use proviron, would that cover me?... it is very important to control estrogen, but not suppress it too much, as this would bring serious side effcts as well... any input?.

probably the best i could do is stack proviron with something milder like adex or letro at low dose rather than exemestane?

Proviron is an androgen so it comes with benefits such as higher libido, muscle hardening, vascularity, ect. (its like the cherry on the cake)

 

[WARBIRDWS6]

depends on how estrogen sensitive you are, and how much estrogen will aromatize....you may need an actual AI as well in some (probably) lower EOD type dosage....just keep an AI on hand if you need it....

Free proviron? where? LOL

 

[KenTheEagle]

depends on how estrogen sensitive you are, and how much estrogen will aromatize....you may need an actual AI as well in some (probably) lower EOD type dosage....just keep an AI on hand if you need it....

Free proviron? where? LOL

Yeah, in fact i was thinking the same, just having the AI on hand, and why not, to up the proviron to even 75 mgs if possible, but id start from 50 ED... then if i start to feel some high estrogen symptoms i could start using Adex. ive never had gyno problems before thank God.

haha, proviron was a gift from a friend, altho not enough proviron to complete my plan so id have to get more, not so cheap tho (ask olddawg, seems he knows the price ) i think is like 12 bucks x 10 tabs

 

[burlyman]

There's truth in what OD says. Individual results will vary. If I personally was doing 400/wk or less of test, then I wouldn't use an AI. For me, the over 500/wk mark would be the point where aromatization would either require higher doses of proviron or I'd start looking at other options. But what dosage amount affects me will be different than the dosage that affects someone else. Same reason that some guys will get gyno from identical cycles when other guys won't. Internet/head/book knowledge will only take you so far and the rest is what you know because you've been there.

 

[KenTheEagle]

There's truth in what OD says. Individual results will vary. If I personally was doing 400/wk or less of test, then I wouldn't use an AI. For me, the over 500/wk mark would be the point where aromatization would either require higher doses of proviron or I'd start looking at other options. But what dosage amount affects me will be different than the dosage that affects someone else. Same reason that some guys will get gyno from identical cycles when other guys won't. Internet/head/book knowledge will only take you so far and the rest is what you know because you've been there.

Understood, i guess im just a lil bit paranoid about estrogen, so ill keep the adex on hand just in case, i think ill skip the exemestane on this onw. seeing that proviron can prevent estrogen to build at some degree.... i guess if i didnt have the proviron id go with exemestane for sure and would use it almost from the start

 

[Edenexodus]

As more backing results may vary estrogen sensitivity is different for everyone.

 

[WARBIRDWS6]

What I don't understand about today's trials and tribulations...is that there are other guys who essentially read up on this stuff (AAS, PH/DS, etc)....but who have no real world experience, and are super young, and they give "advice" on here and nobody calls them out on it (well except for me when I get fed up with it)....but certain people get jumped on for it (like today)....If you are gonna call out one guy for giving advice without real world experience, call out EVERYBODY who does it. I do understand the theory of "don't give advice about something you haven't used yourself"....but lets be fair about it and call it when we see it and not just call it on people we "don't like" from previous run-ins.....

 

[WARBIRDWS6]

I know my estro is high when I start crying during cardio. happened this am.

yeah I am aware of my high estrogen levels, so I always use maximum estrogen control for my cycles (and even off cycle for that matter)....but I never advise others to run AI's and DHT and whatever up the ying yang like I do (have to)......sometimes I go to make a post advising someone to take an AI ED at some high dose and then I say to myself, wait a minute thats for a bloaty whiny estrogen bitch like me not for the everyday normal joe....I also get really moody and anxious and bitchy on clomid of course, which is the case for most guys I know....I get stressed over stupid emotional things and want to kill my fuqin self on that stuff....

 

[KenTheEagle]

What I don't understand about today's trials and tribulations...is that there are other guys who essentially read up on this stuff (AAS, PH/DS, etc)....but who have no real world experience, and are super young, and they give "advice" on here and nobody calls them out on it (well except for me when I get fed up with it)....but certain people get jumped on for it (like today)....If you are gonna call out one guy for giving advice without real world experience, call out EVERYBODY who does it. I do understand the theory of "don't give advice about something you haven't used yourself"....but lets be fair about it and call it when we see it and not just call it on people we "don't like" from previous run-ins.....

x 2!!!!! Definately agree here, thanks for touching the point, theres of people with no experience at all, with good or bad advices, is good to educate ourselves and why not, sharing our opinions, we constantly get feedback form others, people with experience or no experience and the goal is to get to a conclusion.... today certain people got crazy, and started with unsults calling me out... when theres some others with no experience and no studies behind. at the end we should all read, research and post what we know. i think is stupid to judge just because someone dont like a member.... thanks for the response bro. hope these guys get it.

 

[WARBIRDWS6]

They all love Ippatsuman, that's why they're here. I gotta ask, where are Ken the eagle and Ippatsuman from? Spanish cartoons or what?

maybe he wants to start a new life here at AM?

 

[Coolazice]

I can't help but wonder why you (IppyHectorKen) don't go to the "hardcore steroid boards" for answers to these questions rather than to places with a smaller percentage of actual steroid users?

 

[Coolazice]

Wasn't my question a legitimate one?

 

[WARBIRDWS6]

 

[Rodja]

Dude, you seriously need to research a LOT more if you think arimidex or letrozole are more mild compared to exemstane when it comes their AI strength. While exemestane is more mild on the lipids and is a different class of AI since it is a steroidal AI, they are all still very, very strong when it comes to aromatase.

 

[BoneDaddy]

I know my estro is high when I start crying during cardio. happened this am.

True story OD?!

 

[oufinny]

Yeah, in fact i was thinking the same, just having the AI on hand, and why not, to up the proviron to even 75 mgs if possible, but id start from 50 ED... then if i start to feel some high estrogen symptoms i could start using Adex. ive never had gyno problems before thank God.

haha, proviron was a gift from a friend, altho not enough proviron to complete my plan so id have to get more, not so cheap tho (ask olddawg, seems he knows the price ) i think is like 12 bucks x 10 tabs

Just like Masteron, Proviron is not a substitute for an AI. You can lower the dose or go to EOD but don't stop taking it.

 

[BoneDaddy]

yep, true story. had my headphones on, listening to old music when I was 16, Iron maiden, on the ellipticle, and got to the verge of all out bawling 3x, was able to tear up and choke it back, whole family was in the living room with me but occupied with tv so they didn't notice. Did 25/aromasin right after and I'm standing up to pee again

The standing up to Pee again made laugh out loud Why the estro spike ya think?

 

[EArch]

Never use proviron to replace an AI.

Im currently running 50-75mg provrion ED and a-sin/exemestane ED with 500mg test per week.

Good stuff really

 

[Turbo4V]

I'm getting ready to run Sust/Dbol/Proviron. Still planning on using Adex alongside.

 

[BoneDaddy]

I've just went on trt, and thought I'd start with a cycle since bloodwork was all prefect except test and estro which are related. I started a 750 cyp cycle and quasi front loaded a bit. since the estro was low I thought I'd wait for a sign before taking my AI. the crying was pretty clear lmao

Yeah, I'd say it was pretty clear! That's got to be a little weird.....like Wtf is happening to me! That's some serious aromatising!

 

[KenTheEagle]

Thank you all for the feedback, i definately dont want to drop the proviron, its a must this time LOL. i also think the same about proviron, i really think it will never replace an AI, since its just a DHT base (despite of what a few posters say over the forums that "proviron will prevent some compounds to aromatize)... I onldy think i could negate high estrogen SIDE EFFECTS, not reduce estrogen (just like any other androgenic compound)...

EArch how many mgs of exemestane are you taking while taking proviron?..... maybe i could reduce it to 12.5... or keep the 25 mgs EOD protocol.

 

[EArch]

Thank you all for the feedback, i definately dont want to drop the proviron, its a must this time LOL. i also think the same about proviron, i really think it will never replace an AI, since its just a DHT base (despite of what a few posters say over the forums that "proviron will prevent some compounds to aromatize)... I onldy think i could negate high estrogen SIDE EFFECTS, not reduce estrogen (just like any other androgenic compound)...

EArch how many mgs of exemestane are you taking while taking proviron?..... maybe i could reduce it to 12.5... or keep the 25 mgs EOD protocol.

Im taking standard 12.5mg of exemestane ED

 

[burlyman]

Thank you all for the feedback, i definately dont want to drop the proviron, its a must this time LOL. i also think the same about proviron, i really think it will never replace an AI, since its just a DHT base (despite of what a few posters say over the forums that "proviron will prevent some compounds to aromatize)... I onldy think i could negate high estrogen SIDE EFFECTS, not reduce estrogen (just like any other androgenic compound)...

EArch how many mgs of exemestane are you taking while taking proviron?..... maybe i could reduce it to 12.5... or keep the 25 mgs EOD protocol.

DHT is an estrogen antagonist, not an aromatase inhibitor. If someone says, as you quoted, that it prevents aromatization, then that's incorrect. It just changes the androgen/estrogen balance in the body.

 

[Rodja]

DHT is an estrogen antagonist, not an aromatase inhibitor. If someone says, as you quoted, that it prevents aromatization, then that's incorrect. It just changes the androgen/estrogen balance in the body.

I think that's a bit complicated for him. The whole SHBG concept and its implications is something that he obviously has not researched.

 

[KenTheEagle]

EArch and Burly, thanks for the input... well i guess ill stick with the plan, and i will probably follow EArch protocol on using 12.5 of exemestane ED, wouldnt hurt... yeah proviron doesnt act directly on the steroids preventing em to aromatize... but it does indirectly by binding to the aromataze enzime... altho i will keep the AI and run it... also i didnt mention proviron will make testosterone even more potent, its a synergestic function wich makes it more exciting and more reasons to include it in my cycle... in fact i doubt i would cycle without it again, specially when using test

 

[Rodja]

EArch and Burly, thanks for the input... well i guess ill stick with the plan, and i will probably follow EArch protocol on using 12.5 of exemestane EOD, wouldnt hurt... yeah proviron doesnt act directly on the steroids preventing em to aromatize... but it does indirectly by binding to the aromataze enzime... altho i will keep the AI and run it... also i didnt mention proviron will make testosterone even more potent, its a synergestic function wich makes it more exciting and more reasons to include it in my cycle... in fact i doubt i would cycle without it again, specially when using test

And you know that from your vast experience with this compounds?

 

[KenTheEagle]

And you know that from your vast experience with this compounds?

I know this due to my research also i have close buddies wich run these (my sources also haha )... hey we all start somewhere dont we?... you mean i need to be experienced before i run my first cycle???? doesnt makes sense at all , dont ya thing brah?

 

[Rodja]

EArch and Burly, thanks for the input... well i guess ill stick with the plan, and i will probably follow EArch protocol on using 12.5 of exemestane ED, wouldnt hurt... yeah proviron doesnt act directly on the steroids preventing em to aromatize... but it does indirectly by binding to the aromataze enzime... altho i will keep the AI and run it... also i didnt mention proviron will make testosterone even more potent, its a synergestic function wich makes it more exciting and more reasons to include it in my cycle... in fact i doubt i would cycle without it again, specially when using test

I know this due to my research also i have close buddies wich run these (my sources also haha )... hey we all start somewhere dont we?... you mean i need to be experienced before i run my first cycle???? doesnt makes sense at all , dont ya thing brah?

You should pay attention to what you write. How can you doubt that you'll run test without it again when you have yet to even run test?

 

[KenTheEagle]

You should pay attention to what you write. How can you doubt that you'll run test without it again when you have yet to even run test?

Because as i said, both work in synergy, its like they both complement each other, so yeah, with this knowledge i already have, i wouldnt hesitate on using proviron (specially if i use test)... seeing i can find it easily with my buds... you said i need to be experienced... so in order to run my well planned cycle i need to run each compound solo... and then when im experienced, stack em D: ????

 

[WARBIRDWS6]

DHT is an estrogen antagonist, not an aromatase inhibitor. If someone says, as you quoted, that it prevents aromatization, then that's incorrect. It just changes the androgen/estrogen balance in the body.

People say this all the time on here....that epi is an ai or this and that DHT is an ai....but in reality they are estrogen antagonists ....

 

[chocolatemilk]

to call DHT an estrogen antagonist would mean its a ligand to the estrogen receptor

 

[WARBIRDWS6]

Ok then its not an AI or estrogen antagonist...we will just term it "a thing that does not like estrogen and fights with estrogens face "

 

[chocolatemilk]

lol

yeah it's complicated because dht and E don't interact directly as far as i know but they cascade opposite effects on the body. most simple way to look at it is these hormones cause either masculinization or feminization. increasing masculinization through androgenic compounds allows you to tolerate feminization through estrogens better

 

[KenTheEagle]

GREAT FEEDBACK ,yeah i always fall into the same argument, dht is not an AI, and will never be, it can only negate esrogen symptoms because its an androgen so it can counter the bloaty effect, gyno, ectt, but does not crush estrogen....

by the way Rodja... read my signature... problem solved ?

 

[WARBIRDWS6]

lol

yeah it's complicated because dht and E don't interact directly as far as i know but they cascade opposite effects on the body. most simple way to look at it is these hormones cause either masculinization or feminization. increasing masculinization through androgenic compounds allows you to tolerate feminization through estrogens better

yes.....since DHT is causing opposite effects from estrogen.....it seems its negating estrogenic activity, which it probably isn't....its just "doing its thing"....you still need to address the estrogen with an AI or whatever....But many times people tell me or whomever that you don't need an AI if your using this DHT product here (many times its epi) and I'm like F U I'm using my damn AI since I know I am an estrogenic mofo....And most of us take liberties categorizing some of this stuff as something it is not....for instance the whole DHT/Epi is an AI thing....its not....now when I, or someone else, calls it an estrogen antagonist, that is also wrong....but I think its acceptable to term it like that (even though its wrong ) since its hard to post a 12 line explanation every time you want to describe DHT's effects...but the AI thing is so totally off-base that it shouldn't be tolerated lol.

 

[WARBIRDWS6]

GREAT FEEDBACK ,yeah i always fall into the same argument, dht is not an AI, and will never be, it can only negate esrogen symptoms because its an androgen so it can counter the bloaty effect, gyno, ectt, but does not crush estrogen....

by the way Rodja... read my signature... problem solved ?

haha, rodja can be condescending in his internet tone when replying to posts....but I think he means well, and always posts accurate/helpful information. so you gotta learn to deal with it, everybody has a different posting style and different personalities....he does seem to have taken a special "liking" (disliking) to you though LOL

 

[KenTheEagle]

haha, rodja can be condescending in his internet tone when replying to posts....but I think he means well, and always posts accurate/helpful information. so you gotta learn to deal with it, everybody has a different posting style and different personalities....he does seem to have taken a special "liking" (disliking) to you though LOL

Yeah and i respect Rodja, i am aware he doesnt like me, not even a bit, the guy knows a lot about anabolics and training, i give him that... but i think he needs to slow down... he dislikes me but i think is not fair that he tries to disclaim every thing i say, so to avoid problems i changed my sig, and i will probably change it once i run my planned cycle (when i am more experienced ) LOL... i have a bunch of haters, mostly because i had a few problems with some members in some forum, it all started with a mod who has the lead over there and guys got the wrong image of me. im spanish, so i have a different culture, and there was some kind of lenguage barrier (at first and this is probably why the mod started the games)... when i first started posting i had a few problems expressing myself. bah, hatrers gonna hate, and they cant take from me all things ive learned... i definately do my homework so i wont let anybody to post hate coments against me (like all the BS from yesterday)... if the do they can feel free to post any single argument and prove me wrong at the end this is one of the functions of a forum, hope they slow down, i am a good guy

 

[sidoious]

yep, true story. had my headphones on, listening to old music when I was 16, Iron maiden, on the ellipticle, and got to the verge of all out bawling 3x, was able to tear up and choke it back, whole family was in the living room with me but occupied with tv so they didn't notice. Did 25/aromasin right after and I'm standing up to pee again

Sidetrack: what was the IM song? Wasted Years is a bit melancholy, can't think of any ballads they've done!

 

[Coolazice]

Yeah and i respect Rodja, i am aware he doesnt like me, not even a bit, the guy knows a lot about anabolics and training, i give him that... but i think he needs to slow down... he dislikes me but i think is not fair that he tries to disclaim every thing i say, so to avoid problems i changed my sig, and i will probably change it once i run my planned cycle (when i am more experienced ) LOL... i have a bunch of haters, mostly because i had a few problems with some members in some forum, it all started with a mod who has the lead over there and guys got the wrong image of me. im spanish, so i have a different culture, and there was some kind of lenguage barrier (at first and this is probably why the mod started the games)... when i first started posting i had a few problems expressing myself. bah, hatrers gonna hate, and they cant take from me all things ive learned... i definately do my homework so i wont let anybody to post hate coments against me (like all the BS from yesterday)... if the do they can feel free to post any single argument and prove me wrong at the end this is one of the functions of a forum, hope they slow down, i am a good guy

Yeah, Ippy... you're the victim. :no: It has absolutely nothing to do with all the lies you told, or making fun of peoples health conditions (when you are bipolar and/or OCD yourself, among other things), or the scam you are trying to run here (again) with the alleged language barrier, or the fact that you are always talk out your a$$ about stuff you've never ran, etc... Need I go on? The fact that people don't like you is not because of DJM - it's because of IppyHectorKen. You and your ridiculous rants are why you are banned from Primordial - not because of DJM or others. Isn't it about time you take a little responsibility for your own actions for once rather than trying to blame someone else?

 

[KenTheEagle]

Yeah, Ippy... you're the victim. :no: It has absolutely nothing to do with all the lies you told, or making fun of peoples health conditions (when you are bipolar and/or OCD yourself, among other things), or the scam you are trying to run here (again) with the alleged language barrier, or the fact that you are always talk out your a$$ about stuff you've never ran, etc... Need I go on? The fact that people don't like you is not because of DJM - it's because of IppyHectorKen. You and your ridiculous rants are why you are banned from Primordial - not because of DJM or others. Isn't it about time you take a little responsibility for your own actions for once rather than trying to blame someone else?

The facts:

I am no victim as i defended myself over there... second, this is internet community, i dont take it too personally... altho i take it serious since i want to reach my goals and help others everytime i can...

third... did you read my signature? are you happy now mister expert?.

Yes DJ started the games, i had legit followers and friends over there....

now the day i got banned., i was slightly drunk, i had a fight with my girl... so i came home and i wanted to crush everything on my sight ... then open the laptop to found the BS from some member who admitted he liked to fk up with people and give insults (dig some posts to find out he said that), i will not tolerate insults (i dont think anyone would), specially seeing that the guy is a racist and sometimes a troll... so thats why i told him that. i was very brutal on him i admit, but i was provoked

dont you think it would be better if he didnt post his insults?... you really know that if i dont feel attacked i dont attack..., now lets forget about that and avoid problems here, thats all i ask... im currently doing my research, and plan my cycle wich i want to share here... i enjoy this site and im pretty excited to learn and do my best. and yeah i had lenguage barrier before (i think im doing it better now) just as Felost, wich you guys were so harsh on him, when he was very nice, just probably didnt have the knowledge, but a few corrections woldve help him, instead of being so harsh on him to the point that he doesnt post there anymore. (he also made the forum more fun tbh)

Now this is a section about anabolics!.... and this thread is supposed to discuss proviron and AIs (stacked)... now feel free to post your thought on the subject, hopefully we'll learn something... just wanted to clarify the things for you, to avoid future flaming

 

[Rodja]

Because as i said, both work in synergy, its like they both complement each other, so yeah, with this knowledge i already have, i wouldnt hesitate on using proviron (specially if i use test)... seeing i can find it easily with my buds... you said i need to be experienced... so in order to run my well planned cycle i need to run each compound solo... and then when im experienced, stack em D: ????

You're finally getting it. You can't know each compound(s) effect on you if you're introducing multiple new compounds concurrently. I know that you've done some research, but one of the problems with the internet is the conflicting anecdotal reports on compounds and you also rely on the validity of the person running the compound, which is a shaky (at best) proposition. For example, I've seen people say some just plain dumb things like a test only cycle for 20 weeks will result in "mediocre" gains and his alternative is a triple stack of orals bridged into each other.

 

[Coolazice]

The facts:

I am no victim as i defended myself over there Over-defended, IMO... second, this is internet community, i dont take it too personally BS...you take everything to heart... altho i take it serious since i want to reach my goals and help others everytime i can... You can't help people by spitting out a bunch of dangerous nonsense

third... did you read my signature? are you happy now mister expert?. Yeah, I read your signature. Yet you still continue to speak about stuff when it is usually rather obvious you still don't have a complete understanding about you are "extensively" researching. Mr Expert? Really? How often have you seen me giving advice on something that I've never ran? Maybe when I first got there I did a bit of parroting, but in general, unless asking a question about something - I seldom speak about things that I have little or no knowledge about.

Yes DJ started the games, i had legit followers and friends over there.... He didn't start anything over there... people just ran out of patience for you. If anybody was truly your friend over there then they still would be now despite what others said. Haven't you learned that about life and people yet?

now the day i got banned., i was slightly drunk, (Being drunk is no excuse and it certainly wasn't the first time you wigged out like that) i had a fight with my girl... she suspected that i cheated on her and told me horrible things that i came home and i wanted to crush everything on my sight ... If you weren't actually cheating on her physically, you certainly were in your head. You had posted some pretty elaborate plans to hook up with some older chicks on there and talked about other girls you were hoping to nail as well then open the laptop to found the BS from some member who admitted he liked to fk up with people and give insults (dig some posts to find out he said that), i will not tolerate insults (i dont think anyone would), specially seeing that the guy is a racist To the best of my knowledge - he is NOT a racist. Why would one white guy hate another white guy for being white??? and sometimes a troll... so thats why i told him that. i was very brutal on him i admit, but i was provoked

dont you think it would be better if they didnt post his insults?... you really know that if i dont feel attacked i dont attack... and you know it, Actually you did attack people who you thought you were superior to due to the fact that you used to be leaner, had high rep numbers and other silly reasons. now lets forget about that and avoid problems here, thats all i ask... im currently doing my research, and plan my cycle wich i want to share here... i enjoy this site and im pretty excited to learn and do my best. and yeah i had alleged lenguage barrier before (i think im doing it better now) just as Felost, wich you guys were so harsh on him, when he was very nice, just probably didnt have the knowledge, but a few corrections woldve help him, instead of being so harsh on him to the point that he doesnt post there anymore. No clue what you're talking about with felost. I don't recall anyone giving him a hard time about anything major.

Replies are in 'bold'.

 

[Coolazice]

I can't help but wonder why you (IppyHectorKen) don't go to the "hardcore steroid boards" for answers to these questions rather than to places with a smaller percentage of actual steroid users?

I am still curious about this question. Who would better be able to help you than the guys that are actually 'living and breathing' this stuff?

 

[chocolatemilk]

in 4 drama

i see a lot of inaccurate sh*t posted on here lately which is wrong i just don't care to correct it. mostly just cruise the forum when im bored but def some bad info floating around.

 

[chocolatemilk]

I am still curious about this question. Who would better be able to help you than the guys that are actually 'living and breathing' this stuff?

i'm on a few of those boards and there's honestly more knowledgeable guys on here regarding chemistry, biochemistry, and metabolism of steroids

those boards are good for reading experiences and cycle info such as doses and what not but they suck ass at the science

 

[Coolazice]

i'm on a few of those boards and there's honestly more knowledgeable guys on here regarding chemistry, biochemistry, and metabolism of steroids

those boards are good for reading experiences and cycle info such as doses and what not but they suck ass at the science

Maybe there are more meat-heads over on those boards, but logically that would be the place to go looking for answers first. I agree though, it does seem like there are more people that take the time to discuss the science end of steroids on here.

 

[chocolatemilk]

true

carry on...

 

[burlyman]

Just in to say that "extensive research" is stretching it a bit, Ken, seeing as you are still asking questions and a bit confused about how certain compounds work. Extensive research would have brought you to understand all those things. I'd say "google research" is probably a more accurate term for what you've done. I'm not busting your balls, I'm just trying to keep it honest, bro. But keep being the student and less of the teacher and you'll learn a lot.

 

[KenTheEagle]

Just in to say that "extensive research" is stretching it a bit, Ken, seeing as you are still asking questions and a bit confused about how certain compounds work. Extensive research would have brought you to understand all those things. I'd say "google research" is probably a more accurate term for what you've done. I'm not busting your balls, I'm just trying to keep it honest, bro. But keep being the student and less of the teacher and you'll learn a lot.

Hey Burly, nice to see you, its all good i dont think you are busting my balls LOL... i understand your point, but i think that if i say its not extensive research would be unfair, this is because i spend a lot of time reading... now i dont think that enough research would give me a definitive conclusion, as debates always happen and i prefer to discuss some points (reason for this thread and all threads in general) and get the best conclusion so i can take action... in the world of anabolics and research in general theres always debate even experts argue about compounds and they dont always agree and i think weve seen this in the forums. ive learned a lot from experts, important writters (i bet you know who im talking about), books, write ups, ect... and all the advise i give is based on what i learn or experience... now i just put this signature, as i think all opinions from us (average members, users, ect) should be taken with a grain of salt... its responsability of the user to get feedback and make his own conclusions to take the best desition. i agree with chocolatemilk some people comes here with the worst plans, but i think theres nothing bad in giving the kind of "what i would do" advice. now my signature is just a statement thatn i didnt even had to write... everyone should know that not everyone is an expert.

Now based on my knowledge i formulated a plan... and some people liked my plan and i didnt get any negative comments, just a few corrections, wich helped me a lot

Just so you know i have been gettin positive feedback regarding my posts. the negative came when these guys came to the forum just to flame me, it doesnt make sense at all... you can see a lot of guys with a lot of knowledge here, so i think that if i were advicing "dangerous things" as coolazice says... the "experts" or guys with so much knowledge wouldve been flaming me at first (i already have 192 posts)... again the flaming comes from the members of "that forum" and it all started yesterday... weird eh?

 

[Johnnyboy004]

x 2!!!!! Definately agree here, thanks for touching the point, theres of people with no experience at all, with good or bad advices, is good to educate ourselves and why not, sharing our opinions, we constantly get feedback form others, people with experience or no experience and the goal is to get to a conclusion.... today certain people got crazy, and started with unsults calling me out... when theres some others with no experience and no studies behind. at the end we should all read, research and post what we know. i think is stupid to judge just because someone dont like a member.... thanks for the response bro. hope these guys get it.

I dont think I read the insults so I can't comment on that portion specifically. However, I'd like to add one thing to the point you and Warbird are making from my own personal experience and the reason I joined the forum:

I joined because I looked at a number of different forums, and this one seemed to be the most knowledgable. And really, the reason for joining was to learn from the experience from some of the bros on here. I've been around juice my whole life because I played football and power lifted. Of all the dudes I knew that ran cycles before I jumped on here, none of them had close to the combined knowledge of the AM members. And that coming from two sports where the use of AAS is previlant. I never ran a cycle because I was scared about what I didnt know about. Looking back, I'm glad I maxed that decision because after learning alot about AAS these guys weren't running horrible cycles but they werent great either. And nobody ran pct. It was, "if ur worried, maybe run some clomid".

I can read up all I want on the internet. I can read books. I can hear some bro science from dudes at the gym or buddies w past experience. But there is a lot of value hearing from the experienced bros on here.

If I am interested in test or Proviron, I can look up a thread, read through other dudes advice and experience, look at old logs, see the debate going on about a topic, and then use my own ability to critically think and pull out the portions that seem to be correct based on the collective knowledge of the group. I'm the type of guy that likes to learn from experience.

That said, the sight isn't perfect. Their are some *******s sprinkled in here and there. But thanks, all you guys who do try to help people out by giving some advice based on experience.

Ps. I think their is too much estrogen in the post I just made. **** you guys! There, now it's balanced out.