Primordial Performance + FDA Raid!

[HereToStudy]

anyone get locked up...in my neighborhood if the feds get involved in a drug bust, bet your ass some one is doing time.

What drug bust? They took dhea isomers? I can also only think of one industry raid that lead to arrests, and that involved MLB players using.

 

[snagencyV2.0]

Different day, same ****.

you had me at hello

 

[thebigt]

What drug bust? They took dhea isomers? I can also only think of one industry raid that lead to arrests, and that involved MLB players using.

so much for the big raid.....good luck to you, glad to hear you are doing well!!!


hope you kicked the smokes for good, those things will kill ya!!!!

 

[rulk22]

I don't even need to add my 2 cents here.

 

[etnukekav]

aids aids aids aids aids

 

[Coolazice]

hard to understand for the un ambitious but many work and have side projects, i know i do, perhaps with the raid he was forced to fast forward that side project

I just thought it was an interesting piece of information (that someone dropped in my lap) and felt it was worth sharing.

 

[rockme]

Welcome to 2012. We'll be in 2013 waiting for you.

Yeah...guess some people actually have lives outside the Internet and the gym

 

[R1balla]

I don't even need to add my 2 cents here.

im loving these PP people back on here!

 

[jbryand101b]

God this forum never changes, makes me wonder why I don't post here anymore. Oh wait, this IS why.

I voiced my opinion on this on my own message board, anyone is free to look it up if they wish.

Let me give a basic summary:

- This did happen, although I was a "just a rep" for the company, my involvement was significantly more than most see in their typical rep positions receiving their free $20 of sugar powder a month.

- I spoke to many people who lost their 9-5 over this, many of which became quite good friends with me over time. I also lost a significant amount of income that I made through this role. (Lucky for me, it was expendable cash, as I had a 9-5 at the time, and now a lucrative career).

-The link that dick tracy posted above (Yes, you can bask in the glory of me giving you this title on more than one forum) for a "new company" that eric created after the raid is not really news to anyone that was tied to the company. Eric had plans for a sister company going back years before the raid. Although the direction of that company now has to change drastically, did you really expect eric to pack up and just stop trying to make money in an industry he dedicated all of his time to? Please.

-Eric had a lot of financing supporting this company. I know most seem ignorant to how the real world works, but do you really think that their creditors would just take their word for it? Do you really think that a company could publicly lie about the actions of a federal agency in terms of something of that magnitude, especially a company that was selling over the counter prohormones and really wouldn't want the extra attention? I think you guys are smoking those sugar powders now....

-I had spoken to numerous other "industry" guys, one of which recommended me a lawyer with industry experience. I passed the referral on to Eric, and received confirmation both from Eric and the person who provided me the referral that Eric indeed spoke to this lawyer about the situation, down to a discussion on cost (one of which, due to industry experience, Eric could not afford). So I assume Eric went through all of this non public backend work just to support his lie?

-There were employees present at the office at the time of the raid. One of which I spoke to in detail about the event. Did this employee support Eric's lie just to lose his very own job at the same time? What about the people in shipping/accounting/graphic design/web devs, etc.. They did this at the expense of their job to support Eric in a lie?

-The card posted on the PP message board was in fact real. The employee who posted it was contacted directly shortly after the post with a direct request for it to be removed. The employee had to contact me immediately because I was in the middle of running a program that was mirroring the information on our message board, and he wanted to ensure that it was not going to be reposted to my own site based on the conversation he had with government employees. At the time, I also received a side warning from this employee about monitoring of emails, etc.. and how I could expect my own personal email addresses were probably subject to the same.

-If this was a last ditch effort to raise funds, why would the products that we had the largest margins on and the easiest time selling be the ones we lie about being confiscated? Wouldn't we want the funds from these products? Why rely on selling things like toco-8 and other natural products that raised the least amount of revenue for us be what we relied on for revenue? It just doesn't make any sense. You can claim we didn't have the stock, but I know with absolute certainty that we had a very large amount of stock in andro products, and while I can't speak to sustain alpha topical's stock, I know I could say the same for Dermatherm target.

-It seems the guys who support this sort of bull**** are the same suspects seen at any other mention of potential controversy. Different day, same ****.

K, didn't read all that, no offense, I'm not looking for more hearsay, but links to official info. It has to be out there if it's as you say.

 

[jbryand101b]

What drug bust? They took dhea isomers? I can also only think of one industry raid that lead to arrests, and that involved MLB players using.

It was said no one was arrested, even though they were investigating claims of illegal substances supposedly in the products.

 

[jbryand101b]

I just want some links. Talking shiit is fun, but I would like some facts. Guess I'll just have to keep looking

 

[R1balla]

K, didn't read all that, no offense, I'm not looking for more hearsay, but links to official info. It has to be out there if it's as you say.

why are you going to demand proof but not read the entire reply from an ex PP rep who was heavily involved with Eric?

 

[OnionKnight]

why are you going to demand proof but not read the entire reply from an ex PP rep who was heavily involved with Eric?

its called critical thinking. not taking sides here, but jbryand put up a prety good argument earlier in the thread

 

[abformulations]

its called critical thinking. not taking sides here, but jbryand put up a prety good argument earlier in the thread

I agree

 

[R1balla]

its called critical thinking. not taking sides here, but jbryand put up a prety good argument earlier in the thread

i understand both sides here, but you didnt even read HTS's defense entirely. Its fine if you want the proof, but at least understand where HTS is coming from.

 

[HereToStudy]

K, didn't read all that, no offense, I'm not looking for more hearsay, but links to official info. It has to be out there if it's as you say.

Keep searching, Ill keep lifting. The implication I have from eric is that this is still very much an investigation into Primordial's activities, so I can't see you finding too much information on an open issue.

It was said no one was arrested, even though they were investigating claims of illegal substances supposedly in the products.

They suspected, but we had submitted for testing prior to the raid and were informed there was no issues, since you are in research mode, feel free to look back and you will find posts where we discussed this (prior to the raid).

I just want some links. Talking shiit is fun, but I would like some facts. Guess I'll just have to keep looking

Like I said above, enjoy the ride. When you wear yourself out, hit the gym.

i understand both sides here, but you didnt even read HTS's defense entirely. Its fine if you want the proof, but at least understand where HTS is coming from.

He's an attention whore. Always has been, always will be. Let him play his game, my 2c has been stated.

 

[Fred Anthony]

Thanks!! :cool3:

 

[Fred Anthony]

cool..!!

 

[snagencyV2.0]

LOL
always good times round heah

it would be so nice if reps would just worry about their OWN company and company products..
would not only be a better atmosphere for the consumer, but truth is:

no matter what, we are all loosely brothers-in-arms in this industry..
the efforts spent to tear down someone else comes at expense of the industry in general

the mentality that it's "my company against yours" is small, and in the grand scheme of things speaks volumes of the individual


enjoy your conspiracy

 

[fueledpassion]

It was said no one was arrested, even though they were investigating claims of illegal substances supposedly in the products.

I'm not trying to make this any more complicated, but you do see the twisted motive the FDA could have on this, dont you?

A large portion of these government agencies' budgets are based on the fines that they dish out. Just like the local governments, they are expected to find illegal stuff going on and to fine those company/organizaitons for profits. This is how they survive from a fiscal standpoint. The more laws, the more fines, the more money they have to pay salaries/raises/increase in power & influence.

I don't like it because it encourages the government to fabricate situations, much like what has happened to Primordial Perfomance. Sure, it could all be a hoax I guess but when I read about this it didn't surprise me at all. While I don't think PP broke any laws, they were close enough to the line in the sand that the FDA could fabricate a situation and find an opportunity for fines.

It's just like when I go to court over a ticket, they don't want to do anything more than fine me for the wrongdoing. In fact, if I pay extra, they drop the charges. The feds dont operate any differently. They are no more than an org in an unfair industry trying to make profits, just like companies in the private sector.

I could be wrong about this particular instance, but I know I'm not wrong about government agencies needing to fine companies for monetary reasons. Our taxes couldn't possibly support the entire budget of the FDA, along with the other 400 agencies in existence.

 

[JudoJosh]

I hear discovery channel is replacing their "Frinding Bigfoot" show with "Finding out what Happened at PP". It premeirs Monday at 8pm EST. I just set my DVR

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[abformulations]

I hear discovery channel is replacing their "Frinding Bigfoot" show with "Finding out what Happened at PP". It premeirs Monday at 8pm EST. I just set my DVR

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Lol I'm setting mine up as we speak

 

[jbryand101b]

why are you going to demand proof but not read the entire reply from an ex PP rep who was heavily involved with Eric?

Because if I'm curious about what Eric already said, the owner, who I'm sure is also heavily involved with the company, then why read what hts had to say.
Only thing that needs to be said is, here is the link to official info.

 

[jbryand101b]

Keep searching, Ill keep lifting. The implication I have from eric is that this is still very much an investigation into Primordial's activities, so I can't see you finding too much information on an open issue.

They suspected, but we had submitted for testing prior to the raid and were informed there was no issues, since you are in research mode, feel free to look back and you will find posts where we discussed this (prior to the raid).

Like I said above, enjoy the ride. When you wear yourself out, hit the gym.

He's an attention whore. Always has been, always will be. Let him play his game, my 2c has been stated.

I don't doubt your products contained what they claimed. I used them, more so the non hormonal stuff like endoamp max, and Toco 8.
Attention? I guess, I just wondered something. If I really wanted attention, I would of asked this question on multiple boards, not just here.

 

[jbryand101b]

who wants to call the fda and ask about it?

I will today.

 

[heavylifter33]

LOL at a PP rep claiming us poverty reps get 20 bucks worth of sugar a month when PP sells DHEA snake oil.

Lord, i've seen it all now.

And not a single link or credible source was posted this day. Nice try Andro Factory.

 

[Fred Anthony]

and let me know about it...uttahere:

I will today.

 

[HereToStudy]

LOL at a PP rep claiming us poverty reps get 20 bucks worth of sugar a month when PP sells DHEA snake oil.

Lord, i've seen it all now.

And not a single link or credible source was posted this day. Nice try Andro Factory.

I prefer not to get into another pissing match with SNS as a company, been there, done that, no need to go there again.

I stated my involvement with the company was beyond the TYPICAL rep position paying $20 in sugar, so either you consider your company typical (I won't comment) or you are getting defensive over nothing. It is also important to
note I wasn't paid in Andro products, so I am not sure what the comment even means. You can call the andro products whatever you would like, I personally could give a **** about the products at this point since they don't exist. My conversation here is also with those involved whom I know, I don't know you, don't personally want to know you, so I don't really need to address you. If you haven't noticed, you can move on.

Your comment on price, however, is funny. I could add up every product SNS offers and run it for the 4 weeks stacked, and the results wouldn't compare to Andro-, yet the cost would exceed it. But different thread, different day. This isn't BB.com last i checked.

I commented on the link to sources earlier and I also have no affiliation to AF (quite the opposite if you are taking notes).

 

[thebigt]

I hear discovery channel is replacing their "Frinding Bigfoot" show with "Finding out what Happened at PP". It premeirs Monday at 8pm EST. I just set my DVR

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what's a dvr?

is it like my sony betamax?

 

[jbryand101b]

Emailed the FDA, there is a section that deals with supplements, hopefully we hear back soon and this can be put to rest.

 

[El Hefe]

I have no dog in this hunt. I've used their products and there were also some aspects of the raid that were strange.

But make no mistake - FDA and EPA regulate, confiscate, enforce, fine, etc without leaving any public ginger bread trail.

Non-restricted/non-registered products are the worst. They leave a gray and make up rules and violations as they see fit. People are put out of business constantly and for various reasons, and very few are just. At least with a registered/regulated product they (the business) have a leg to stand on - because it was once approved.

Registered products are a difficult game too. Most registered products are broken into categories that are governed behind the scenes by Task Forces. Almost every Task Force is head by a corporation that has or had patents in the category. They approve, deny, regulate, fine, etc registrants in the category. Most of this is not public.

 

[HereToStudy]

I have no dog in this hunt. I've used their products and there were also some aspects of the raid that were strange.

But make no mistake - FDA and EPA regulate, confiscate, enforce, fine, etc without leaving any public ginger bread trail.

Non-restricted/non-registered products are the worst. They leave a gray and make up rules and violations as they see fit. People are put out of business constantly and for various reasons, and very few are just. At least with a registered/regulated product they (the business) have a leg to stand on - because it was once approved.

Registered products are a difficult game too. Most registered products are broken into categories that are governed behind the scenes by Task Forces. Almost every Task Force is head by a corporation that has or had patents in the category. They approve, deny, regulate, fine, etc registrants in the category. Most of this is not public.

Very good post. But I am sure all of this will change with a "Dear Mr. FDA, Me and some bros on a bodybuilding board were debating...." email.

 

[burpees]

I miss sustain alpha endoamp max and toca 8 so much

 

[jbryand101b]

Very good post. But I am sure all of this will change with a "Dear Mr. FDA, Me and some bros on a bodybuilding board were debating...." email.

Dang, how'd you know? That's exactly how it starts out!

But I wonder if they'll even responed.

 

[Invycktus]

Dang, how'd you know? That's exactly how it starts out!

But I wonder if they'll even responed.

Ok Jbry, knowing what I know about "DA's" from my various work gigs with them over the years, I will tell you that the chances are slim. Especially if the case is open, as I believe is the protocol. There is also this little rule of non disclosure, so unless this is on the public record, you or anyone for that matter may not have access. Just thinking out loud.

So I am just going to continue to read peacefully, though from my experience with HTS, he is one of the most legit lads around here, and I would take his word if he told me so, just like I would listen to a lot of lads on the SNS side, some like Celly who are buddies.

 

[JudoJosh]

Question, how do you know

They leave a gray and make up rules and violations as they see fit. People are put out of business constantly and for various reasons, and very few are just.

If

But make no mistake - FDA and EPA regulate, confiscate, enforce, fine, etc without leaving any public ginger bread trail.

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[propho]

this thread better get better or I want my time back..

 

[El Hefe]

Question, how do you know

If

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I know because my company has created and sold many products that have fallen into these categories. I've personally been on the wrong end of this. I can also tell you that none of the instances had anything to do with health or public safety. In our case, it was because we had taken too much market share from someone who had more power and bigger pockets.

Just to be clear, none of our products are or were health or dietary supplements. But it's the same game and regulatory bodies.

I also personally know people who have been on or are currently on some of the Task Forces. Those of us who have dealt with them don't refer to them as Task Forces - we call them Cartels.

 

[fightbackhxc]

Excellent thread to read while depositing a big one in the porcelain bank of trust.

 

[fueledpassion]

Question, how do you know



If




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Nice argument. My memory goes back to American Cellular Labs when they created the first pro-dienolone product on the market. FDA raided them in April of 2009, then accused them of lacing their Tren-Xtreme with Trenbolone, which was a flat out lie. If the FDA called it for what it was, then there would not have been any laws broken because pro-dienolone was not banned, yet it was still effective and potentially dangerous when used irresponsibly.

So the FDA called it Tren, as well as busting them out for creating Pheraplex, which was also not a controlled substance at the time either. They called the compounds by whatever they had to "to make it illegal". The feds are dirty, man. They don't serve the public innocently and justly like you want to believe. They want our money, thats it. They are no different from any other corrupt organization out there. Fact is, while ACL might've been unethical in their practices creating fairly powerful steroids for OTC use, they didn't actually break any laws but the Feds are able to get away with crap like this because we aren't really able to stop them anymore if we wanted to.

They don't send letters to anyone giving them warnings because that means no fines! FDA wants fines, not law-abiding citizens. Even if we all started abiding by the current laws, they'd create more laws to make it harder to live with so that more fines could be found. Otherwise the need for that government agency would disappear or at least be downsized, which none of the FDA employees want. This same logic also applies to all of the government agencies. They have become altogether wortheless yet because they desire the money, they find ways to keep existing.

 

[snagencyV2.0]

They don't send letters to anyone giving them warnings because that means no fines! FDA wants fines, not law-abiding citizens..

this is quite absurd stance, and of course carries the air of one crying "conspiracy!" again

of course the FDA has issues, and may be involved in issues that it really has no worthwhile time/business being involved with..to say they are a flat-out corrupt organization is ludicrous

as for no warning letters sent out as you claim:
uhhh, i think it was not too long ago that one of the biggest "busts" in the industry went down, bodybuilding (dot) com, pertaining to illegal product being sold
this raid was AFTER repeated letters sent to bb.com and DeLuca to cease and desist (which they ignored)

i could care less what you believe, but again all this conspiratorial nonsense...WOW

 

[JudoJosh]

Nice argument. My memory goes back to American Cellular Labs when they created the first pro-dienolone product on the market. FDA raided them in April of 2009, then accused them of lacing their Tren-Xtreme with Trenbolone, which was a flat out lie. If the FDA called it for what it was, then there would not have been any laws broken because pro-dienolone was not banned, yet it was still effective and potentially dangerous when used irresponsibly.

So the FDA called it Tren, as well as busting them out for creating Pheraplex, which was also not a controlled substance at the time either. They called the compounds by whatever they had to "to make it illegal". The feds are dirty, man. They don't serve the public innocently and justly like you want to believe. They want our money, thats it. They are no different from any other corrupt organization out there. Fact is, while ACL might've been unethical in their practices creating fairly powerful steroids for OTC use, they didn't actually break any laws but the Feds are able to get away with crap like this because we aren't really able to stop them anymore if we wanted to.

They don't send letters to anyone giving them warnings because that means no fines! FDA wants fines, not law-abiding citizens. Even if we all started abiding by the current laws, they'd create more laws to make it harder to live with so that more fines could be found. Otherwise the need for that government agency would disappear or at least be downsized, which none of the FDA employees want. This same logic also applies to all of the government agencies. They have become altogether wortheless yet because they desire the money, they find ways to keep existing.

Designer steroids have always been illegal. It does not have to be on a banned list or controlled substance list to make it illegal. If it is not a naturally occurring substance than it is not DSHEA compliant and therefore illegal.


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[snagencyV2.0]

Designer steroids have always been illegal. It does not have to be on a banned list or controlled substance list to make it illegal. If it is not a naturally occurring substance than it is not DSHEA compliant and therefore illegal.

oh yeah - there's that too
got sidetracked by the other ludicrous content in that post
good catch

 

[jbryand101b]

Ok Jbry, knowing what I know about "DA's" from my various work gigs with them over the years, I will tell you that the chances are slim. Especially if the case is open, as I believe is the protocol. There is also this little rule of non disclosure, so unless this is on the public record, you or anyone for that matter may not have access. Just thinking out loud.

So I am just going to continue to read peacefully, though from my experience with HTS, he is one of the most legit lads around here, and I would take his word if he told me so, just like I would listen to a lot of lads on the SNS side, some like Celly who are buddies.

Huh, interesting.

 

[Ballesteri]

makes me wonder why I don't post here anymore.


positions receiving their free $20 of sugar powder a month.


-The link that dick tracy posted above (Yes, you can bask in the glory of me giving you this title on more than one forum)
I think you guys are smoking those sugar powders now....

He's an attention whore. Always has been, always will be.


Like I said above, enjoy the ride. When you wear yourself out, hit the gym.

My conversation here is also with those involved whom I know, I don't know you, don't personally want to know you, so I don't really need to address you. If you haven't noticed, you can move on.

Your comment on price, however, is funny. I could add up every product SNS offers and run it for the 4 weeks stacked, and the results wouldn't compare to Andro-, yet the cost would exceed it.
.

lol hts, getting a little crunchy in your old age

 

[Invycktus]

Huh, interesting.

Just sharing my experience if consulting with Dept Agencies over the last8 yrs due to work.

 

[snagencyV2.0]

lol hts, getting a little crunchy in your old age

i like crunchy :thumbsup:

better than soggy :thumbsdown:

 

[R1balla]

i like crunchy :thumbsup:

better than soggy :thumbsdown:

very true!

 

[HereToStudy]

lol hts, getting a little crunchy in your old age

I no longer have to be one of the faces of a company now, so I don't have to hold back, haha. The two BB companies I am affiliated with now are a bit easier in that regard, BoardAdmin @ PHF is even more direct than I am, and the other company I own, and we don't sell products.

 

[jbryand101b]

I no longer have to be one of the faces of a company now, so I don't have to hold back, haha. The two BB companies I am affiliated with now are a bit easier in that regard, BoardAdmin @ PHF is even more direct than I am, and the other company I own, and we don't sell products.

So you mean you can talk out your a$$ now like I do eh? :thumbsup: