Powerfull claims

[jmh80]

Uh - can we not use studies done on rats here at AM??

They aren't always the best physiological model of humans.
(See saccharine and MTBE causing cancer in rats - but not shown in humans.)

 

[freezito]

i love how people try to make something bad out of something good. They say they love the product but on the other hand try to make usplabs lose face. Yes, they have made bold claims and they have also answered all the questions to the best of their abilities in my opinion. The bottom line is their stuff works.

 

[poison]

i love how people try to make something bad out of something good. They say they love the product but on the other hand try to make usplabs lose face. Yes, they have made bold claims and they have also answered all the questions to the best of their abilities in my opinion. The bottom line is their stuff works.

Here's the thing: for me, tribulus 'works'. I'm a randy, pumped mofo when on. The first time I took it, I was wow'ed, but then I started reading more about it, and, come to find out, it doesn't elevate test very well at all, and being horny doesn't mean test is up.

So, I took PowerFull for two weeks. And I liked it. I felt different, though it was hard to quantify how. I didn't get much sleepwise, but I had a feeling of wellbeing and a bit of drive in the gym. I bought two more bottles on sale. Around week 3, the effects dissipated. I started nettle, which rocked my workouts no end.

I gave two bottles of PowerFull away.

First, PowerFull was Piura Muama, then it had PureSap, then it didn't, now it's 1Cwhatever. First it was a test booster, then a GH elevator, now it's both. And Jacob says he 'knows whart he's selling'. He makes VERY bold claims about it. As with my experience with trib, I'd like to know if it's simply a feel good thing, or is it really elevating HGH and test? Does it 'work', or does it work.

Many other companies here sponsor logs and have blood test done, then post the results. If I had the cash, I'd do it with PowerFull, myself. If I were Jacob, I'd want it done.

 

[jmh80]

I just came to this thread hoping for nude pics of Mullet.
And - then I saw Jminis posting - and I got really excited - only to be disappointed.

This thread sucks.

 

[rugger48]

Let me get this straight. Everyone agree's the product works and does what it's supposed to do. This we all agree on. So knowing how great the product is you want to now see proof behind the claims of what it can do? I just don't get it.

This isn't muscletech, why is everyone so worried about this.

Im sorry this isnt a really great arguement, people know that steroids work, but they still want to know whats going on. People want to be informed, its just up to USP, how much he wants to inform. Obviously, he cant just give up all the info pertaining to powerfull. I do believe that USP has providided valiud studies, but to say that the stuff works, so dont question it is the wrong way to go.

 

[rugger48]

First this is not directed at anyone but just my thoughts on the subject,
Proof is in the pudding or so they say. I"m guessing USP came up with a formula based on the information in the studies he's provided. Based on that info he was able to design a product to do X,Yand Z. So people take the product and unlike a lot of supps this one actually does X,Y and Z . So why are we questioning the relevance of the info.

It was obvioulsy correct and it even applies to the real world not just paper. Yes USPlabs makes bold claims about his products but I'll be damned if he hasn't backed them up with expceptional products that do work as advertised. Keep in mind he's also trying to sell products here he's not going for the boys scout badge of honor.

Nothing wrong with exploring how a supp works but you guys are treating USP like he's trying to pull the wool over your eyes. He's one of the few in this industry that puts the time into his research to make sure his products work. Creating BS products is not only a waste of time but expensive. Lets let the man have his eye catching claims that's he's worked so hard for.

While everyone is so focused on trying to figure out what USP did long before the new formulation came to be I'll be popping some powerfull and hitting the gym in an effort to get bigger, you guys know that place with the weights, the reason were all here. I'll let USP do the research, I'll lift the weights. Naive maybe but I have faith in his company and his products and that's something that I believe he's earned with a lot of folks around here.

Time for bed, oh yeah I'll be getting a good night sleep thanks powerfull

Not everybody is questioning the relevence of the info.

 

[bkprice]

Studies will never be enough for some people, they will always find something wrong with the study so they can debate Jacob and inflate there ego.

There are more then enough studies here, but now we need blood test, next we will need full body and brain scans so people who don't even buy the product will rest easy.

This is more about the persons need for ego boost then his need for scientific knowledge. This is not directed to anyone, unless you feel it applies to you.

 

[Vegking]

since one of PowerFull's claim is to raise test. then wouldn't your body also raise estrogen? In other words, does PowerFull need to be cycled? Or does it work through some other pathway that avoids the body's feedback system? thanks

 

[rugger48]

Studies will never be enough for some people, they will always find something wrong with the study so they can debate Jacob and inflate there ego.

There are more then enough studies here, but now we need blood test, next we will need full body and brain scans so people who don't even buy the product will rest easy.

This is more about the persons need for ego boost then his need for scientific knowledge. This is not directed to anyone, unless you feel it applies to you.

IS it?

Youve got someone who stats that there is a 221% increase in GH(equal 3 ius) and a 51% increase in test, those are pretty siginificant increases, so people are going to be skeptical. This is the supplement industry. With that being said this is in no way saying that USPs claims are are inflated. Like I said before USP has produced some studies and the products do produce results.

 

[jminis]

Im sorry this isnt a really great arguement.

I know because it's not an arguement it's my thoughts on the matter.

Rugger I agree it's nice to know how things work but I think some need to stop trying to be junior chemist (not talking about you here). Jacob has to watch what he discloses to the public. I don't think most know how many companies would rip his line off if given the chance.

Anyway I just think some are so focused on the battle they forgot about the war. This is all I'm saying on this matter if it were up to me I'd leave the man alone because i want him to focus on coming out with another phenominal supp.

 

[Guest]

Don't buy it..bottom line.

 

[rockhard_4eva]

And please stop purchasing Cissus :smite:

 

[Guest]

Right. It's your job to prove or back up your claims. When you say "blahblah 213% increase x 53% increase y massive wood yeehaw", without providing references, you're gonna be asked questions. It IS your job to provide answers, not ours. We are not making the claims, you are.



Good, because originally it was sold as a test booster, then a GH booster, now it does both.

I am reading the research...the majority of which you did not post. Wouldn't it be easier to just post all that up front, or say 'hold on, Mullet will be here momentarily', instead of getting pissy with your customers?



Hey, there's no shame in saying 'I don't know' or 'I'm not sure', or 'anecdotal evidence shows'. It's better than pumping out Muscletech copy then getting pissed when people want verification.



This isn't about AP or Cissus. Nice diversion.



*****? No one here is *****ing, aside from you. People ask legitimate questions, you get your panties in a bunch. It's too bad, because Mullet here is working very hard to cover your ass (and doing a fine job).

No hard feelings. I just wish you would be straight with us, your customers.

If you want to refute our research and claims than YOU must refute it with research.

Currently, your questions closely resemble gossip.

Mullet does a wonderful job, but Jacob posted the research backing the claims. I love selective readers.

You doudt the claims spend your money on another supplement its really that simple. As a consumer, I pass on MANY supplements.

 

[Guest]

Anabolic Pump was years of inhouse research.

PowerFULL has been improved with inhouse research through the years. We always aim to improve. We always aim for innovation and bring "NEVER SEEN BEFORE" products to the market.

We will be loved, and we will be attack. This is the nature of the industry.

I spent years stating that our extractions are unique and our herbs are different. I'm done beating that drum over and over again. We have a much larger goal of progressive research intead of defending. In defense, we lose ground.

 

[poison]

If you want to refute our research and claims than YOU must refute it with research. .

See, that's where we differ in opinion: you make claims, and when I ask questions, you tell me it's my obligation to prove my question is valid.

:wtf:

I own my own coffee business. I sell the best coffee you've ever had, period. If you ask me why mine is better, I'll tell you until you ask me to stop talking. I WON'T say 'How dare you question the quality of my coffee, prove it's not the best'.


Whatever, man. Good luck to you. I'll still be using your products, as long as I find them effective for me.

 

[Australian made]

Jeez handbags at dawn here. Stop the moaning, everyone will keep buying USP products regardless of what answers they come up with here. Their stuff works. Thats all i need to know.

 

[jmh80]

While I agree with the questions many of you are raising about P'full - I agree more with Jmin: this sh*t works so let's stop beating a dead horse.

Yeah - the marketing claims may be a wee bit over the top - but the supplement works - which is more than you can say for many supps that have very small marketing claims.

Viva la Powerfull!


(Major props to my man Mullet - strong work in this thread bruh. Reps - you earned 'em this time, even though you didn't send me any nude midget pics. :stick: )

 

[Jayhawkk]

Yeah, Mullet does his best. The brother has helped me out plenty of times.

 

[Rivet]

I own my own coffee business. I sell the best coffee you've ever had, period. If you ask me why mine is better, I'll tell you until you ask me to stop talking.

Can you PM this to me? Hmmm coffee...

 

[entropy138]

i was speaking for the others who expressed annoyance with some of the claims and language in your advertisements.

did you want me to repost this study?

In 1975, Ajlouni and colleagues reported the effects of 500mg of oral L-dopa on eight normal and 8 non-obese insulin-dependent diabetic subjects. The normal subjects increased their plasma HGH from 1.5mg/ml before L-dopa, to an average 21mg/ml at 90 minutes post L-dopa, with all subjects showing at least a 10 mg/ml increase. The diabetics increased from 2.5mg/ml to 20mg/ml from 60-90 minutes post L-dopa. Giving 100 grams (3 _ ounces) of glucose with, or 30 minutes after the drug totally suppressed the expected HGH increase (7).

I'm curious about this and the recommendation to take powerfull 30 minutes before a meal. Granted I'm sure a meal won't contain 100g of glucose but it seems reasonable to figure that a smaller amount would decrease the expected HGH release possibly...???

 

[rugger48]

I know because it's not an arguement it's my thoughts on the matter.

Rugger I agree it's nice to know how things work but I think some need to stop trying to be junior chemist (not talking about you here). Jacob has to watch what he discloses to the public. I don't think most know how many companies would rip his line off if given the chance.

Anyway I just think some are so focused on the battle they forgot about the war. This is all I'm saying on this matter if it were up to me I'd leave the man alone because i want him to focus on coming out with another phenominal supp.

Good Point:thumbsup:

 

[jminis]

It seems all have settled down. Gentleman lets get back to hitting the iron and getting ready for the summer. It's just around the corner and I'll be damned if one of you punks will upstage me on the beach

 

[Vegking]

I would still like to know since it boost test. does it need to be cycled?

 

[jmh80]

Y'all wanna see how Jmh80 gets banned from AM?
Well - I'm bout to drop a nuclear bomb!!!

I'll be damned if one of you punks will upstage me on the beach

Yeah - damn right Jmin.
Here are you (Left) and Jayhawkk (Right) last December - surely gettin' ready for the Jersey shore this summer.

:box: You guys are so hawt!!!
I love your waxed eye brows - and that gallon of gel in your hair.

 

[rockhard_4eva]

My take on the claims:

You walk into a store and see some BS muscletech supp called applencan (or whatever) making weird ass claims about muscle activation. Then you see a bottle of something called powerfull with no claims on it. Which would you buy? Which supp would some dumb ass buy?

Lucky for us, USP posts some research so people that are curious enough can do some research. And keep in mind, Im pretty sure no one here has a PhD of Biochem from Yale (my brother does, thats how i can tell) so chances are no one can really understand the implications of the research unless USP tells us them.

 

[Guest]

See, that's where we differ in opinion: you make claims, and when I ask questions, you tell me it's my obligation to prove my question is valid.
.

Not at all Poison, you posted the question and in response, I posted the proof in references. If that was not enouph, Mullet continued to exhaust the research. Is that not enouph?

It worked in this order:

1. You asked the questions
2. I answered the question with referenced research
3. You continue to ask the same question
4. I reposted the research
5. Mullet reposted and than posted new research in relation

 

[djremix]

some more interesting tidbit i noticed.

just a couple of powerfull caps before sleep REALLY help out your adrenals when u are on stims all day, that gradual feeling of getting a little bit more tired everyday is not there. using stimX, adipo, fyre etc.

also another brain bender. pop two caps of perwull and another 2 of n-euphoria and see what happens.

for some unexplained reason these two are equal to about 1 to 1.5 mg xanax!

hmmnnn

 

[Ziricote]

Not at all Poison, you posted the question and in response, I posted the proof in references. If that was not enouph, Mullet continued to exhaust the research. Is that not enouph?

It worked in this order:

1. You asked the questions
2. I answered the question with referenced research
3. You continue to ask the same question
4. I reposted the research
5. Mullet reposted and than posted new research in relation

His issue isn't that you didn't post research, it's that he doesn't see it as the highly relevant research which it is.

 

[DAdams91982]

His issue isn't that you didn't post research, it's that he doesn't see it as the highly relevant research which it is.

No I believe its that USP didnt do thier own impartial testing on the extracted compound. I seen no research done on 1-C. Just think of the fact as if Glaxo put out a drug, strait to the public without doing any inhouse blood work. Just basing their whole drug off what others said (Hearsay).

And dont take this as jabs... I completely respect USP, and the innovative products released. I have the new PowerFULL on the way, and will report what I feel. Some (And I being one of them) Like to see bloodwork done as such. Such as Designer Supps, who I see doing blood tests on pretty much anything. Same for ALRI, and even same for Custom with his new Test Booster. Its proof positive for impartiality.

Adams

 

[jminis]

Y'all wanna see how Jmh80 gets banned from AM?
Well - I'm bout to drop a nuclear bomb!!!



Yeah - damn right Jmin.
Here are you (Left) and Jayhawkk (Right) last December - surely gettin' ready for the Jersey shore this summer.

:box: You guys are so hawt!!!
I love your waxed eye brows - and that gallon of gel in your hair.

This is a nice pic of me. That's when I was bulking I hit the 156lbs mark. Jayhawk is a little behind only weighing in at 145lbs. Were monsters for sure

Oh Jmh your gone:whiner:

 

[DAdams91982]

This is a nice pic of me. That's when I was bulking I hit the 156lbs mark. Jayhawk is a little behind only weighing in at 145lbs. Were monsters for sure

Oh Jmh your gone:whiner:

And thats after 18 weeks of 1G of Test Ethanate. You are a BEAST!!!

Adams

 

[TheUnlikelyToad]

There is no doubt in my mind PowerFULL does indeed work rather well...

It's almost to tha point where I could write some additional positive remarks in my log that would appear heavily biased since I got tha product for free. So instead I'll just post my pics, summarize things, and let things fall where they may.

You get a lot of **** Jacob, but your products are exceptional.

 

[Guest]

I would still like to know since it boost test. does it need to be cycled?

No it does not have to be cycled, but instead, you should evaluate the supplement with time. If you feel the effects are diminishing, you should cycle off.

PowerFULL works by increasing endogenous hormones. You will never stop producing a hormone because of PowerFULL use.

take care

 

[poison]

No I believe its that USP didnt do thier own impartial testing on the extracted compound. I seen no research done on 1-C. Just think of the fact as if Glaxo put out a drug, strait to the public without doing any inhouse blood work. Just basing their whole drug off what others said (Hearsay).

And dont take this as jabs... I completely respect USP, and the innovative products released. I have the new PowerFULL on the way, and will report what I feel. Some (And I being one of them) Like to see bloodwork done as such. Such as Designer Supps, who I see doing blood tests on pretty much anything. Same for ALRI, and even same for Custom with his new Test Booster. Its proof positive for impartiality.

Adams

Pretty much.

 

[same_old]

No it does not have to be cycled, but instead, you should evaluate the supplement with time. If you feel the effects are diminishing, you should cycle off.

PowerFULL works by increasing endogenous hormones. You will never stop producing a hormone because of PowerFULL use.

take care

WHOOOOAAAHHHHHH there!

i was reading over the direction this thread turned, and deciding how i wanted to contribute...i'm glad USPLabs chimed in with this because it's a perfect segue for me.

some people dont care how a product works, only that it does. others want to know exactly what they are doing to themselves, for a myriad of reasons (risk mitigation, potentiation with corollary supps, timing, drug testing, etc)...as we know divulgence is not the cornerstone of the supplement industry, so these more inquisitive or cautious folks have to be creative with their fact-finding endeavors, by extending what studies are available to the new products they ingest.

in this case - unless SOME kind of proof is shown otherwise, the most obvious conclusion about Powerfull's endogenous T increasing abilities is that it mimics LH much like HCG. all the symptoms are there - increased testicle size, heightened libido, relatively prompt desensitization....add on that Pfull (MP) increases sperm count and it becomes pretty clear.

i will personally not use powerfull during PCT...it looks like it is best for late-cycle use, and for in-between periods in low doses.

people should realize that use of Powerfull, given all the information at hand, has a very distinct potential to reduce or even stop production of LH by the HPTA. how detrimental is this? not terribly - it isnt the same as steroid shutdown, but your body will need time to restart production once administration ceases.

only other possibility i see is some sort of direct HPTA stimulation of LHRH...and i am not as well-versed on that mechanism, or if it even is possible...

thoughts?

 

[crappero]

There are no non-hormonal products on the market that can cause shutdown. You can't increase the amount of test enough to force shutdown, if anything you will hit a ceiling and remain there, still producing more test, but not continually increasing.

I consider AI’s hormonal.

 

[crappero]

There are no non-hormonal products on the market that can cause shutdown. You can't increase the amount of test enough to force shutdown, if anything you will hit a ceiling and remain there, still producing more test, but not continually increasing.

I consider AI’s hormonal.

But honestly since we do not know of the exact pathways PowerFULL works, one cannot say exactly what will happen with regards to Test production at higher doses for extended durations.

But I am pretty confident in saying that it would be rather spectacular if someone where to get some kind of shutdown off of PowerFULL, but I really just don't see that happening.

However, I do remember some people complaining of sore nipples, possible signs of heightened estrogen levels at higher than normal doses.

 

[jminis]

However, I do remember some people complaining of sore nipples, possible signs of heightened estrogen levels at higher than normal doses.

It makes sense if some see gyno flare ups. Test goes up so will estro.

 

[doodle]

It makes sense if some see gyno flare ups. Test goes up so will estro.

you beat me to it. :hammer:

 

[Ziricote]

If you already have gyno PowerFULL can aggravate it via aromatase but PowerFULL in itself isn't enough to cause gyno.

 

[crappero]

If you already have gyno PowerFULL can aggravate it via aromatase but PowerFULL in itself isn't enough to cause gyno.

This is EXACTLY what I meant.:head: PowerFULL can and DOES raise Test, as evidence by the few cases of sore nipples (sore nipples does not equal gyno). And since PowerfULL cannot in itself create gyno, there is no reason to believe that it could actually cause shutdown.

 

[bpmartyr]

in this case - unless SOME kind of proof is shown otherwise, the most obvious conclusion about Powerfull's endogenous T increasing abilities is that it mimics LH much like HCG. all the symptoms are there - increased testicle size, heightened libido, relatively prompt desensitization....add on that Pfull (MP) increases sperm count and it becomes pretty clear.

i will personally not use powerfull during post cycle therapy...it looks like it is best for late-cycle use, and for in-between periods in low doses.

people should realize that use of Powerfull, given all the information at hand, has a very distinct potential to reduce or even stop production of LH by the HPTA. how detrimental is this? not terribly - it isnt the same as steroid shutdown, but your body will need time to restart production once administration ceases.

only other possibility i see is some sort of direct HPTA stimulation of LHRH...and i am not as well-versed on that mechanism, or if it even is possible...

thoughts?

Just thought I would add some non-scientific feedback here.

I am currently running a suppressive cycle and have atrophied like normal while using PowerFull. Added HCG into the mix and as usual, filled out to normal within a week. My initial conclusion is that if there are any similarities in method of action to HCG they are exponentially less pronounced and I am suspicious of any shutdown or desentization occurring from it's use.

Why use PowerFull while on cycle? Why wouldn't I want add'l GH and deep restfull sleep to maximize gains? Not to mention the increased virility in the sack compliments the test libido well.

I also use in PCT with fantastic perceived positive results. Perceived in that I have no bloodwork to back up how I was feeling.

 

[same_old]

This is EXACTLY what I meant.:head: PowerFULL can and DOES raise Test, as evidence by the few cases of sore nipples (sore nipples does not equal gyno). And since PowerfULL cannot in itself create gyno, there is no reason to believe that it could actually cause shutdown.

<<<trying very hard not to flame>>>

please explain your logic behind "if not gyno, then not shutdown."

as for "Powerfull can only aggravate an existing gyno condition" that is absolute bullocks. anything that provides your body with a surplus of estrogen, via ANY pathway, can cause gyno symptoms and, if left unchecked, gyno. the only thing that can aggravate but not cause gyno is progesterone/progestins, inasmuch as they do not require any more estrogen to make the gyno manifest, and in the absence of estrogen will not cause gyno (that's all clinically proven)...as far as anyone knows, Pfull is not a progestin (although with the constant ingredient changes, i cant say for sure)

oddly enough, because of the rapid desensitization many experience with powerfull, you probably wouldnt get to full-on gyno, because you would likely stop producing the extra test before the tissue forms fully...but that's neither here nor there.

i didnt actually know that people had gotten gyno symptoms on Pfull, but that makes perfect sense.

unless someone has another theory on MP's stimulation of T production besides LH mimicking (and therefore suppression and desensitization being completely plausible, even expected), we should all be treating the stuff like we would HCG, with respect to PCT timing and such.

 

[same_old]

Just thought I would add some non-scientific feedback here.

I am currently running a suppressive cycle and have atrophied like normal while using PowerFull. Added HCG into the mix and as usual, filled out to normal within a week. My initial conclusion is that if there are any similarities in method of action to HCG they are exponentially less pronounced and I am suspicious of any shutdown or desentization occurring from it's use.

what kind of timing? as in, cycle length and what weeks did you use the Powerfull?

i personally noticed "inflation" about a week after beginning Pfull, while on cycle...but about 3 weeks later the effect was diminished if not gone altogether...user results may vary, as usual. i should look harder to make sure, but i think most users report inflation when using PowerFull.

 

[bpmartyr]

what kind of timing? as in, cycle length and what weeks did you use the Powerfull?

i personally noticed "inflation" about a week after beginning Pfull, while on cycle...but about 3 weeks later the effect was diminished if not gone altogether...user results may vary, as usual. i should look harder to make sure, but i think most users report inflation when using PowerFull.

Currently at week 9, added Pfull week 5, HCG week 8.

I reiterate the fact that this is just what I am experiencing and not making any statement as far as actual methods of action as I frankly do not know.

 

[crappero]

<<<trying very hard not to flame>>>

please explain your logic behind "if not gyno, then not shutdown."

as for "Powerfull can only aggravate an existing gyno condition" that is absolute bullocks. anything that provides your body with a surplus of estrogen, via ANY pathway, can cause gyno symptoms and, if left unchecked, gyno. the only thing that can aggravate but not cause gyno is progesterone/progestins, inasmuch as they do not require any more estrogen to make the gyno manifest, and in the absence of estrogen will not cause gyno (that's all clinically proven)...as far as anyone knows, Pfull is not a progestin (although with the constant ingredient changes, i cant say for sure)

oddly enough, because of the rapid desensitization many experience with powerfull, you probably wouldnt get to full-on gyno, because you would likely stop producing the extra test before the tissue forms fully...but that's neither here nor there.

i didnt actually know that people had gotten gyno symptoms on Pfull, but that makes perfect sense.

unless someone has another theory on MP's stimulation of T production besides LH mimicking (and therefore suppression and desensitization being completely plausible, even expected), we should all be treating the stuff like we would HCG, with respect to post cycle therapy timing and such.

Increased estrogen which comes as a result of aromatization of the increased Testosterone that the body produces while on PowerFULL has caused some people to claim that they have sore nipples. While this is an unpleasant and definitely unwanted side effect of PowerFULL, some soreness in the nipples is not full blown gyno, and can be easily taken care of by administration of an AI. I have not heard of any cases of full blown gyno brought on by taking PowerFULL. The sore nipples are a sign on increased estrogen, not a drastic increase, but still an increase. I do not believe that this increase is enough to influence the Estrogen Negative Feed-Back Loop into decreasing the amount of endogenous Testosterone. However as I do not know the real mechanisms by which PowerFULL works, I could be wrong.

The main point where I differ from what you are saying is that I don't think we should treat PowerFULL as one would treat HCG. I don't think PowerFULL is anywhere close in terms of its effectiveness in increasing natural Testosterone production. We honestly have no idea exactly how this product increases Testosterone and until we are shown some of the information that these claims were based upon I don't think we can really say how we should treat PowerFULL. I think it should just be treated as a regular herbal Testosterone booster until we are shown otherwise.

I also do not really believe all the claims that are made on the USPLabs website about the increase of Testosterone being near equivalent to 100mg of extra Testosterone. I do believe that there is an increase of Testosterone, but I do not believe that it is that much the human body on average produces somewhere between 2 and 11mg of testosterone a day. I think some of the effects (not all) that people report from PowerFULL might be just increased libido and not directly from increased Testosterone production.

BTW I just want to say that I think it is great what you are doing Same Old, and I am 100% with you. Questioning the methods and science behind such claims is the only way that we will find out what these claims are based upon. Until we see what it was based on, you can't take such drastic claims as fact. It might just be the case that all of these claims are assumptions based upon the user feedback. But I really hope there is some science behind all of this.

 

[same_old]

Increased estrogen which comes as a result of aromatization of the increased Testosterone that the body produces while on PowerFULL has caused some people to claim that they have sore nipples. While this is an unpleasant and definitely unwanted side effect of PowerFULL, some soreness in the nipples is not full blown gyno, and can be easily taken care of by administration of an AI. I have not heard of any cases of full blown gyno brought on by taking PowerFULL. The sore nipples are a sign on increased estrogen, not a drastic increase, but still an increase. I do not believe that this increase is enough to influence the Estrogen Negative Feed-Back Loop into decreasing the amount of endogenous Testosterone. However as I do not know the real mechanisms by which PowerFULL works, I could be wrong.

The main point where I differ from what you are saying is that I don't think we should treat PowerFULL as one would treat HCG. I don't think PowerFULL is anywhere close in terms of its effectiveness in increasing natural Testosterone production. We honestly have no idea exactly how this product increases Testosterone and until we are shown some of the information that these claims were based upon I don't think we can really say how we should treat PowerFULL. I think it should just be treated as a regular herbal Testosterone booster until we are shown otherwise.

my response is to your comments above in fuschia:

"The alkaloids in Mucuna increase testosterone level in seminiferous tubules either by action on pituitary function or on leydig's cells that store testosterone."

unless we can somehow establish that the former is more likely (and that's a tall order), we should assume the less desirable MOA is the one used by MP, and take precuations accordingly, IMO.

 

[crappero]

my response is to your comments above in fuschia:

"The alkaloids in Mucuna increase testosterone level in seminiferous tubules either by action on pituitary function or on leydig's cells that store testosterone."

unless we can somehow establish that the former is more likely (and that's a tall order), we should assume the less desirable MOA is the one used by MP, and take precuations accordingly, IMO.

Ok, now I understand what you meant, and I agree, you are right.

 

[same_old]

Ok, now I understand what you meant, and I agree, you are right.

it's actually more lavender than fuschia, but i think the info remains valid. :hammer:

 

[Hyde12]

WHOOOOAAAHHHHHH there!

i was reading over the direction this thread turned, and deciding how i wanted to contribute...i'm glad USPLabs chimed in with this because it's a perfect segue for me.

some people dont care how a product works, only that it does. others want to know exactly what they are doing to themselves, for a myriad of reasons (risk mitigation, potentiation with corollary supps, timing, drug testing, etc)...as we know divulgence is not the cornerstone of the supplement industry, so these more inquisitive or cautious folks have to be creative with their fact-finding endeavors, by extending what studies are available to the new products they ingest.

in this case - unless SOME kind of proof is shown otherwise, the most obvious conclusion about Powerfull's endogenous T increasing abilities is that it mimics LH much like HCG. all the symptoms are there - increased testicle size, heightened libido, relatively prompt desensitization....add on that Pfull (MP) increases sperm count and it becomes pretty clear.

i will personally not use powerfull during post cycle therapy...it looks like it is best for late-cycle use, and for in-between periods in low doses.

people should realize that use of Powerfull, given all the information at hand, has a very distinct potential to reduce or even stop production of LH by the HPTA. how detrimental is this? not terribly - it isnt the same as steroid shutdown, but your body will need time to restart production once administration ceases.

only other possibility i see is some sort of direct HPTA stimulation of LHRH...and i am not as well-versed on that mechanism, or if it even is possible...

thoughts?

Ok, now this worries me. Are you saying that a natural plant extract can cause LH desensitization like HCG?