Please help me in regards to TRT

[sammpedd88]

I take Pregnant every morning on an empty stomach or with food. Doesn't upset my stomach at all. Just be sure to take it in the morning and not afternoon/evenings.

Preg .... Damn auto correct!

 

[rio2014]

Tks guys I have to admit, after a day of taking these two I feel much better specially the dhea. My mood/energy has improved significantly and I also notice a huge increase in mental alertness as well. More so that injecting actual T. I only hope I don't build a tolerance but so far its been very helpful.

Cheers, you guys have helped me more than my doctor and that's not an exaggeration.

 

[kisaj]

We are all here to learn, and trust me, your sentiments are well shared amongst this community regarding the help we provide each other vs doctors.

Glad to hear this is working as we expected. There is no tolerance, you are simply filling up your natural levels and feeling how you are intended to feel.

 

[sammpedd88]

Tks guys I have to admit, after a day of taking these two I feel much better specially the dhea. My mood/energy has improved significantly and I also notice a huge increase in mental alertness as well. More so that injecting actual T. I only hope I don't build a tolerance but so far its been very helpful. Cheers, you guys have helped me more than my doctor and that's not an exaggeration.

No tolerance build up at all. I've taking it everyday for nearly four months.

 

[rio2014]

I might have to lower my dose on the preg because its giving me a slight headache, its in capsule form so might take it with food to see if that lower absorption. Next order will be 25mg instead of 50.

 

[rio2014]

Everything is good so far, energy and mood continue to be good. Only issues still remaining is that my e2 might be high because I'm accumulating some fat in the belly and chest area which I didn't have before. Anyway will post some labs in the next few days and we'll go from there.

 

[rio2014]

OK so finally had my tests mailed to me and estradiol seems high to me (137pmol/L) even though doc's office told me it was ok but was told to lower T injection to 1.0 (I had already reduced this from 1.2cc) because Test came back at 48nmol and lab range is 8.4 to 28. So what would be the best way to reduce estradiol.. lowering T to maybe .8 CC/week or reducing HCG. Keep in mind i'm only dosing HCG twice a week at only 250IU Mon and Fri. Thanks guys.

PS: Lab range for estradiol was <150.

 

[kisaj]

Lower test and increase inject frequency to 2x week. That will keep test levels stable, less peaks, and better control e2. Keep in mind that if you are on HCG, you will likely always have e2 issues unless you control with an AI. HCG increases e2 and that is why so many people have bloating and lethargy sides from it without an AI.

 

[SweetLou321]

Lower test and increase inject frequency to 2x week. That will keep test levels stable, less peaks, and better control e2. Keep in mind that if you are on HCG, you will likely always have e2 issues unless you control with an AI. HCG increases e2 and that is why so many people have bloating and lethargy sides from it without an AI.

Which ai is best for hcg use?

 

[kisaj]

Couldn't tell you as I don't use HCG, but any script should work or an OTC like Formeron. Formeron is a formestane product with a great carrier so it absorbs fast and smells great.

 

[FireRescue]

I'm surprised your doc does not have you on an AI with Test and HCG use.

Agreed spitting the Test two twice weekly or E3d will help lower E2.

 

[Onlychevy6]

Which ai is best for hcg use?

Arimidex aka Anastrozole

 

[rio2014]

Just ordered formeron, what can I expect from it? Will it lower Estradiol significantly? I'm using it as test run to see if I feel better and if I do hopefully I can convince my doc to prescribe an AI which should be more effective and also cheaper as it will be covered 100% through my insurance.

 

[kisaj]

Yes, it will lower estrogen quite a bit. Formestane is powerful and inhibits approx 90% of estrogen at lower <200mg doses. At higher doses, it acts as a prohormone and many users run it solo for nice strength gains. For me, 2 pumps (approx 150-200mg) drops my e2 by about 10-12. I run quite comfortable in the low 20s with my TRT protocol, but dropping to the mid teens gives for a really dry, cut look.

The nice thing about Formeron is that it actually smells really good and it dries very fast.

 

[rio2014]

I'm still waiting for my order of Formeron because the site I ordered was misleading and showing the item in stock and once I paid, rec'vd an e-mail that they were out and have to wait another week.

On another topic I'm somewhat feeling less manly and less aggressive on TRT even though my levels are kind of high, I had much more aggression and felt in charge when I was lower(maybe I was grouchy?)..I feel like a different person now somewhat... much more depersonalized and I don't know what to make of it. Maybe high estrogen..the ar***** of formeron should shed more light, I called the doctors office and they're reviewing my chart to see if he can prescribe me some kind of AI.

Also my libido is gone now.

 

[rio2014]

Can anyone tell me how fast does a shot of HCG raise estradiol levels? Is it hours or days maybe? Thanks

 

[kisaj]

It is pretty quick, relatively speaking. When I was getting frequent labs in the beginning of TRT, I'd see a huge spike in less than a day.

I will say, regardless of my dislike of HCG, that I had some of my most intense workouts in the window from inject to e2 spike, which inevitably caused lethargy and anger. Usually a few hours after inject, I could feel the aggression coming and I'd head to the gym for a crazy intense 2 hour+ session. The downside was that I just wanted to walk through a wall and couldn't be calm.

 

[rio2014]

Thanks, reason I asked was I have to do some blood work again for an estradiol test and had my HCG shot this morning around 2 hours ago, so not sure if I should go to the lab now or tomorrow morning to see proper results.

 

[rio2014]

Thanks, reason I asked was I have to do some blood work again for an estradiol test and had my HCG shot this morning around 2 hours ago, so not sure if I should go to the lab now or tomorrow morning to see proper results.

I found this, sorry for quoting myself.

The hCG stimulation test with assessment of serum testosterone (T) is used for evaluation of testicular function. This retrospective study was undertaken to estimate the diagnostic value of stimulated estradiol (E2) levels in the assessment of Leydig cell function. Serum T and E2 before and after repeated daily hCG injections in 23 adult men with clinically suspected or established primary hypogonadism were studied. After hCG administration serum T increased gradually with peak levels after 72 hours (delta84%, p=0.003). In contrast, serum E2 concentrations reached their maximal levels 24 hours after the first injection (delta168%, p=0.001). Serum T and E2 responses were more attenuated in men with LH > or =17 IU/L as compared to men with lower LH levels. Peak E2 levels after 24 hours correlated significantly with peak T levels after 3 days. We conclude that the increase in serum E2 levels 24 hours after a single hCG injection is an useful additional measure of Leydig cell function. Assessment of E2 increments would render the test procedure more practical, less time-consuming and more cost-effective than assessing peak T levels after 72 hours.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16285473

 

[kisaj]

Yep, my results would fall right into the findings of that study. Interesting.

 

[rio2014]

Ok just recv'd a call from my doc's office that my E2 was in fact high and he is faxing a prescription of .5mg Arimedix twice weekly, since I have never taken this medication before, what can I expect from it and what are your thoughts on this dosage?

 

[kisaj]

Well, to be honest, I'd want to know what constitutes high. I can't take an script AIs as they crush my e2 even in the smallest amounts and that is why I started to get my protocol under control and added in Formeron.

 

[sammpedd88]

Ok just recv'd a call from my doc's office that my E2 was in fact high and he is faxing a prescription of .5mg Arimedix twice weekly, since I have never taken this medication before, what can I expect from it and what are your thoughts on this dosage?

There's an old post on here regarding dosage and morning wood, night time wood, etc. Search for it and read it closely. When it says E2 is the hardest hormone to dial in, it's very true. I personally have found that .25 mgs every third day works for me. Every now and the I need it every other day. Remember.....this medication is very strong. If I were you I would get a pill cutter from my local pharmacy and cut the pills in quarters and start there. Really pay attention to your body. That and blood work is whats going to help you dial in your dosage.

 

[sammpedd88]

There's an old post on here regarding dosage and morning wood, night time wood, etc. Search for it and read it closely. When it says E2 is the hardest hormone to dial in, it's very true. I personally have found that .25 mgs every third day works for me. Every now and the I need it every other day. Remember.....this medication is very strong. If I were you I would get a pill cutter from my local pharmacy and cut the pills in quarters and start there. Really pay attention to your body. That and blood work is whats going to help you dial in your dosage.

Did he give you the actual results or did he just say it was high? Also curious if it was the correct E2 test. Knowing the exact level of your E2 will also help in knowing how much adex to take.

 

[rio2014]

Did he give you the actual results or did he just say it was high? Also curious if it was the correct E2 test. Knowing the exact level of your E2 will also help in knowing how much adex to take.

No he didn't give me the actual numbers (I do have them from a previous test though which was 137 Pmol/L). I'm in general a cautious person so I wanted to use .025mg twice weekly but at the same time I don't want to go against my doctor's professional recommendation.

The test on the lab sheet says Estariol-17 BETA.

 

[sammpedd88]

No he didn't give me the actual numbers (I do have them from a previous test though which was 137 Pmol/L). I'm in general a cautious person so I wanted to use .025mg twice weekly but at the same time I don't want to go against my doctor's professional recommendation. The test on the lab sheet says Estariol-17 BETA.

Do you know what lab, for example Labcorp or Quest? What is the reference range of the estradiol test?

 

[rio2014]

Do you know what lab, for example Labcorp or Quest? What is the reference range of the estradiol test?

I'm in Canada and the lab is called LifeLabs and the reference range is <150 pmol/L, I can always call them and find out the exact numbers for this latest test I suppose. My previous test on May 12, the E2 levels were 137pmol/l which is roughly 37pg/ml. From what I know that number is slightly high but was not prescribed anything at that point so I can only assume E2 has gone up since then..

I can however says with certainty that I'm more emotional than before, have become soft and gained fat recently among other symptoms. Other day in almost 20 years I had a tear in my eye for no reason what so ever other than reacting to something I saw on tv. This is seriously messing up with me.

 

[sammpedd88]

I'm in Canada and the lab is called LifeLabs and the reference range is <150 pmol/L, I can always call them and find out the exact numbers for this latest test I suppose. My previous test on May 12, the E2 levels were 137pmol/l which is roughly 37pg/ml. From what I know that number is slightly high but was not prescribed anything at that point so I can only assume E2 has gone up since then.. I can however says with certainty that I'm more emotional than before, have become soft and gained fat recently among other symptoms. Other day in almost 20 years I had a tear in my eye for no reason what so ever other than reacting to something I saw on tv. This is seriously messing up with me.

Yeah you have the classic signs of high E2. Start out with .25 mgs every third day and see how yiu do with that for a few weeks. Don't forget the pill cutter. It makes it so much easier to cut those small pills in quarters.

 

[rio2014]

Is Arim usually covered by insurance? Because my HCG isn't and pay $99 bucks for 2 month supply.

 

[sammpedd88]

Is Arim usually covered by insurance? Because my HCG isn't and pay $99 bucks for 2 month supply.

It's covered by mine. I think it's a pretty common drug.

 

[Onlychevy6]

Is Arim usually covered by insurance? Because my HCG isn't and pay $99 bucks for 2 month supply.

Do some research online you can get it cheaper. What IU are you buying?

 

[rio2014]

Do some research online you can get it cheaper. What IU are you buying?

10000, the sad part is I'm throwing away half the bottle because I'm only dosing 250IU twice a week. The two major pharmacies here don't carry smaller IUs than 10000. I really haven't looked anywhere else such as costco or wallmart to see if they have maybe 5000 or even 3000IUs.

On a side note, is Arim taken on empty stomach or doesn't matter.

 

[sammpedd88]

10000, the sad part is I'm throwing away half the bottle because I'm only dosing 250IU twice a week. The two major pharmacies here don't carry smaller IUs than 10000. I really haven't looked anywhere else such as costco or wallmart to see if they have maybe 5000 or even 3000IUs. On a side note, is Arim taken on empty stomach or doesn't matter.

I take arimidex on an empty stomach. No problems what so ever. Doesn't matter if you take with food either.

 

[rio2014]

I take arimidex on an empty stomach. No problems what so ever. Doesn't matter if you take with food either.

I just picked up my order and the pharmacist said it tends to irritate the stomach. Also now I'm a little bit concerned because he told me that if estrogen does go down it too can have a feminizing effect?? So if its too high and too low it can do that? I'm so confused.

 

[sammpedd88]

I just picked up my order and the pharmacist said it tends to irritate the stomach. Also now I'm a little bit concerned because he told me that if estrogen does go down it too can have a feminizing effect?? So if its too high and too low it can do that? I'm so confused.

You don't want to go to low and don't want to be high. That's why I posted earlier that E2 is the hardest to dial in. You have to listen to your body. I'll try to dig up that post I referred to that way you can read it and get an understanding of what it means to be too high and too low.

 

[sammpedd88]

You don't want to go to low and don't want to be high. That's why I posted earlier that E2 is the hardest to dial in. You have to listen to your body. I'll try to dig up that post I referred to that way you can read it and get an understanding of what it means to be too high and too low.

Here it is. If I'm not mistaken, this was originally posted by pmgamer. I copied it for you:

I have seen men on TRT stop it and do just Arimidex and get good levels not many but it happens. Here is a link about this in older men still I see this happen to younger men.

http://jcem.endojournals.org/.../full/89/3/1174
And this one.
http://www.medibolics.com/...estosterone.htm

As for taking Arimidex you need labs I like Quest labs test for Estradiol #4021 the range is 13 to 54 pg/ml best level is 20 pg/ml for most men. Here is a copy of a file I made about not going to low on Arimidex.
============================================
How To Take Arimdex and not go down on your Estradiol to Low.

What I found is if you go to low taking arimidex, it's the length of time your to low, if your too low say for 8 weeks it can take your body a longer time to make more Estradiol. Bottom line is to know how not to go to low. Keep a log on your dose and how you feel men going to low can't get it up taking Viagra. I went to low when I first tried Arimidex and did not know about going to low or how one feels to low, so I was low a good 8 weeks. I did not know I was low until my next labs.

The best gage I have found to control your Estradiol levels is to gage your night time and morning wood. At good levels or what I call the sweet spot you get your night time and morning wood back so strong it will wake you up and you can hang a coat on it.

Most men do good taking .25 mgs or 1/4 of a 1mg. pill, I use a pill cutter to cut the small pill in half then I stand it on the cut end and use a single edge razor to cut this in half. A good way to take arimidex is by how high your levels are. I tested over 90 pg/ml so we tried doing .5 mgs every other day after 8 weeks my next set of labs showed it did not move below 90, test said >90. So we did .5 mgs. every day in about 2 weeks I got some strong night time and morning wood back after not having them for many yrs.

I kept doing this dose and in 8 weeks my next set of labs said <20 back in the day labs were like this they did not have to good labs we have today they could not read lower the 20. My Dr. told me this looks to low to stop taking the Arimidex. The one thing I noticed was my wood stopped and stopping the Arimidex my wood came back in about 7 weeks my next test at 8 weeks was 24 pg/ml. So we went back on the Arimidex but the Dr. told me to take .5 mgs every 3 days I was on this dose not a week and lost wood. This is when I figured out going to low you lose wood. And the longer your too low the longer it takes to get levels back up.

I stopped the arimidex right away and got my wood back in 4 days. I then after playing with the dose for a time found the best dose is .25mgs every 2 to 3 days.

So lets say your labs are less the 50 pg/ml if your take .5 mgs you can go down so dam fast your miss the sweet spot of your wood and go to low. It's best with lower levels 50 and under to do less Arimidex .25mgs every 2 days if later your lose wood when it comes back go to every 3 days.

I have found estradiol is the hardest hormone to control, it goes up or down from month to month some times I need .25mgs every 2 days other times I need .25mgs everyday most of the time I do well on every 3 days.

So between wood and labs I do great and so do most of the men I have told this to. I keep a log on how much I am taking and how I feel. Doing this and reading back in my log I was able to tell when I was going to high or to low my Dr. lets me dose my arimidex by how I feel.

Over the yrs. I have posted this story until I am blue in the face.


--------------------------------------------
Phil

 

[FireRescue]

I take arimidex on an empty stomach. No problems what so ever. Doesn't matter if you take with food either.

I believe Adex is better taken with fats. I will look this up and report back.

 

[FireRescue]

10000, the sad part is I'm throwing away half the bottle because I'm only dosing 250IU twice a week. The two major pharmacies here don't carry smaller IUs than 10000. I really haven't looked anywhere else such as costco or wallmart to see if they have maybe 5000 or even 3000IUs.

On a side note, is Arim taken on empty stomach or doesn't matter.

Peptides are fragile compounds but not as fragile as some might think. It has a longer "shelf life" than 30 days when kept refridgerated.

 

[sammpedd88]

I believe Adex is better taken with fats. I will look this up and report back.

Let me know what you find out. I've never heard that but if it works better I'll it with some fish oil or something.

 

[kisaj]

Peptides are fragile compounds but not as fragile as some might think. It has a longer "shelf life" than 30 days when kept refridgerated.

Not for me. Once mixed, I never got more than 3 weeks out of it.

 

[FireRescue]

Not for me. Once mixed, I never got more than 3 weeks out of it.

How are you testing it and/or measuring it's efficacy? Anecdotally?

 

[kisaj]

Yes, and with labs. That's how I knew how I knew how bad HCG was for me. I stopped it a long time ago.

 

[FireRescue]

Pregnyl is stable for 60 days at a stable room temp after reconstitution as stated in their product literature.

While not all HCG is created equal and it will depend some on the liquid used for reconstitution but a 30 days cutoff is not necessarily the case for the effectiveness of recon'd HCG.

 

[FireRescue]

Let me know what you find out. I've never heard that but if it works better I'll it with some fish oil or something.

I have spent the last 30 minutes looking for the information and I cannot seem to find it. I will keep looking for it but for not I need to get back to work

 

[sammpedd88]

I have spent the last 30 minutes looking for the information and I cannot seem to find it. I will keep looking for it but for not I need to get back to work

No prob man! I'll search too and see if I run across something and I'll pass it on as well.

 

[rio2014]

A big thanks to everyone who replied to this thread, I greatly appreciate your input. About 6 hrs later after taking .5mg, I'm feeling somewhat a lot calmer and less anxious. Also feel a bit warmer than usual but in a good way. Haven't noticed anything else besides maybe a slightly clearer head, feel like I can concentrate better.

Nothing negative so far.

 

[rio2014]

Quick update, still feeling pretty good physically and emotionally. Libido has gone up considerably and no negatives to report so far apart from very mild stomach upset which could be unrelated.

 

[FireRescue]

No prob man! I'll search too and see if I run across something and I'll pass it on as well.

I cannot find the info I was looking for. The only if I can come across now states that it makes no difference if it is with or without food. The food slows absorption but does not diminish the effectiveness.

 

[sammpedd88]

I cannot find the info I was looking for. The only if I can come across now states that it makes no difference if it is with or without food. The food slows absorption but does not diminish the effectiveness.

I couldn't find anything either. Thanks for looking

 

[rio2014]

So I'll probably receive the formeron today or Monday, should I hold off on using it then because I'm taking Arim?