PCT: What, Why, and How!

[Airborne42]

Lmao oh YUUUUUUP!

 

[FL3X MAGNUM]

I would like to add:

Spork

 

[FL3X MAGNUM]

On a more serious note, great info here. Hopefully some people will read this FIRST.

 

[Airborne42]

Agreed

 

[DangerDave]

Manbeast Speedo! Id rock it at the beach this summer.....it would be....wait for it...... LEGENDARY!

 

[Gerbil]

Manbeast Speedo! Id rock it at the beach this summer.....it would be LEGEN....wait for it...... DARY!

fixed it for you

 

[ManBeast]

Well, at least we are keeping the thread bumped.... its like a psuedo-sticky right?

ManBeast

*clothing line coming soon

 

[Gerbil]

It is a pseudo-sticky about pct, banana hamocks, speedos, and woman pleasing. I consider that a success.

 

[ManBeast]

Indeed

ManBeast

 

[Jonny784]

It is a pseudo-sticky about pct, banana hamocks, speedos, and woman pleasing. I consider that a success.

Everything I love in the world (minus the banana hammocks and speedos). Lol.

Yet I predict a little bit of confusion for the newcomer who is looking for PCT info and stumbles onto the second page of this thread. They'd be like ಠ_ಠ. WTF mate?.
Good thing all the informative stuff is condensed at the beginning! The rest of the thread should come with the disclaimer: "jk bro, jk. We like to have fun here."

 

[ManBeast]

LOL!

ManBeast

 

[csa2179]

there is a link on this page for purity solutions. i dont understand why u are not suppose to ask for sources when you have a link to one. is this a trap?

 

[ManBeast]

That's a google-based ad I think, it comes up with some wierd sh*t at times. For me, the one on the far left is always a board sponsor, but the other one (where purity pops up) is not.

ManBeast

 

[csa2179]

so your saying dont trust them just because they are shown on the forum board

 

[ManBeast]

the ones from the board sponsors are ok to go for sure, but the one where that site shows up is a google adchoice, for me now it shows junk fake hgh and an infomercial link for low test therapy...

ManBeast

 

[csa2179]

cool i did a little bit of looking online and got a bunch of bad reviews. ive seen alot of research company's but im having a hard time finding one i can trust

 

[ManBeast]

The chemical you need is at a <dot> com out there somewhere

ManBeast

 

[csa2179]

if i need to move this to a different thread please let me know. the biggest question i have is since i have never done anything like this before how do i know what will work right for me

 

[ManBeast]

what? as in what SERM would work for you?

ManBeast

 

[ForAnAngel]

if i need to move this to a different thread please let me know. the biggest question i have is since i have never done anything like this before how do i know what will work right for me

Trial and error.

 

[csa2179]

yes, ive look at three different ones so far and they all seem to do similar things but at the same time have different benefits. how do you decide what you need exactly if you have never done it before?

 

[ManBeast]

I posted some info about all three in links in the first post. Clomid is the old standby, nolva seems to be falling out of favor, and torem is the hotstart newcommer that is getting some great reviews. At this point in time, I always have clomid on hand/part of my PCT, and will be trying out torem in my next cycle.

ManBeast

 

[csa2179]

cool. thanks ill get clomid. if you can think of anything you think i should take a look at let me know.

 

[mattrag]

I have just swapped torem at a week 3 level dose in my week 4 of PCT because my clomi and nolva weren't getting the boys full. I dosed it starting 2 nights ago and I am golden now

 

[xigotmailx]

Wish I would of known about this great stuff when I first did SD for 30 days at 10mg no PCT or anything. Didn't even know you could get ph/roids in a store. Serves me right for not asking any questions lol. Since then i've done 2 more cycles, AndroMass and Lean, diving into SARMS as well. Also have to enjoy the woman, man thongs, and fashion discussion throughout.

Next cycle i'm looking at SD again, results were awesome and didn't really have any sides considering no PCT. With my new knowledge of correct programming and diet I think i'm ready for this again. As for SERM, i'm thinking Torem with of course other assists along with it. Still have a bottle of SARMS and the TRS and TCF1 from PP. Typing that I remember the days wishing someone would spell out the acronyms so I knew what the hell they meant.

 

[Hydronium]

Sooo, for anyone that thinks they got the knowledge to answer this - feel free. I came upon this in my research.

a SERM acts as a weak estrogen, binding to the receptors in your breast tissue where estrogen would bind. It’s also key to know that it doesn't lower or change the circulating amount of estrogen. So as estrogen builds up in your bloodstream as your testosterone levels rise, it has nowhere to go.

After you have finished your anabolic cycle, and HPGA levels are low, your body slowly but surely (with the help of the SERM and presumable natty test boosters) begins raising test, and subsequently aromatizing it into estro. This quote makes it seem like once you have finished your 4-6 weeks of SERM, all of the free estrogen floating around is going to eventually bind to the still sensitive estrogen binding receptors, and all the SERM is doing is delaying the inevitable. Even with a product such as Erase, once that is finished, testosterone will continue to aromatize to reach homeostasis, and the estrogen will bind to places such as breast tissue. Where am I wrong?

I'd prefer not to link to outside sources - but if needed I will provide the source.

 

[FL3X MAGNUM]

What was the question?

 

[mattrag]

Sooo, for anyone that thinks they got the knowledge to answer this - feel free. I came upon this in my research.


After you have finished your anabolic cycle, and HPGA levels are low, your body slowly but surely (with the help of the SERM and presumable natty test boosters) begins raising test, and subsequently aromatizing it into estro. This quote makes it seem like once you have finished your 4-6 weeks of SERM, all of the free estrogen floating around is going to eventually bind to the still sensitive estrogen binding receptors, and all the SERM is doing is delaying the inevitable. Even with a product such as Erase, once that is finished, testosterone will continue to aromatize to reach homeostasis, and the estrogen will bind to places such as breast tissue. Where am I wrong?

That's why we taper off the SERM and taper off the AI. It should help prevent any estrogen rebound. But you are right in your discussion that most likely there is a chance of rebound gyno with this type of treatment.

 

[Hydronium]

What was the question?

Once you have finished your SERM, what in your body is any different than immediately after cycle - the SERM has gone, and estrogen is still in your bloodstream, why wouldn't it bind to your breast receptors as soon as the SERM has left them?

 

[mattrag]

Once you have finished your SERM, what in your body is any different than immediately after cycle - the SERM has gone, and estrogen is still in your bloodstream, why wouldn't it bind to your breast receptors as soon as the SERM has left them?

It wont' if you dont' have excess estrogen. You need estrogen for your body to function properly. But males only need so much, any extra and the body will be like "Hmm... am i a girl, where are my boobs? Lets make some" so you need to REBALANCE your hormones. This is best done by using a serm because it allows your body to restart your test and get back into some sort of homeostasis so that you don't have too much estrogen because while on cycle you most likely had too much test/androgens.

 

[Hydronium]

It wont' if you dont' have excess estrogen. You need estrogen for your body to function properly. But males only need so much, any extra and the body will be like "Hmm... am i a girl, where are my boobs? Lets make some" so you need to REBALANCE your hormones. This is best done by using a serm because it allows your body to restart your test and get back into some sort of homeostasis so that you don't have too much estrogen because while on cycle you most likely had too much test/androgens.

Hmm, I see what you mean. But - because a SERM will bind to estrogen receptors (ALL receptors, a SERM is selective only in its function once bound, not which receptors it binds to), one may assume that adding it to the body is the same as adding exogenous estrogen, the only difference being that your body will still aromatize the test being produced (might be wrong here). So theres 2 cases.

Case 1 - Use an AI - this will prohibit aromatizing of test. Use SERM for 4 weeks, during use of which estrogen levels stay low and gradually increase by tapering the AI. Slowly taper the SERM, which allows those newly created estrogen molecules to bind to the places the SERM used to be, Including the breast receptors. After having lain dormant for such a long time, those receptors, after only 4 weeks, would seem to still be happy to receive a estrogen and make some nice funbags.

Case 2 - Don't use an AI - Oh boy, as the body increases test, it aromatizes into estrogen proportionally, and since the SERM is already bound, it has nowhere to go, so it floats around as free estrogen in your bloodstream. As the SERM is tapered, it will happily bind to all the previous receptors, repeating the end of Case 1, just.... faster.

I need to become a doctor so I can understand this ****...

 

[mattrag]

that's also why your diet has to be intact as the liver will metabolize extra estrogen OR reuse it and then send the negative feedback to the aromataise enzyme to stop aromatising because there is enough estrogen. If you don't have a good diet then the liver will suffer as it will have to process any "crap". Mainly HFCS, trans fats, sugar, and other phyto estrogens that can be found in many of our processed foods today. Then you get this scenario:

Estrogen binds to the receptor via the SERM. The serm though cannot be converted so it signals the liver to make more estrogen and send the message upstream. This tells the body to make more testosterone in order to make more estrogen. Now you are making all the estrogen you need whilst keeping the breast area safe guarded.

When your body reaches the point it should be at the SERM is stopped and the estrogen should be in balance and happily occupied by the receptors it should be attaching it self to, and not those found in the breast tissue.

The job of the serm is also in being unchanged when it hits the liver. It occupies an estrogen receptor there in order to keep the the liver thinking that their needs to be more estrogen and thus more testosterone is produced...

This is all from prior readings on old school PCT so it might not be exactly correct. But I believe it is mostly this. If I am wrong I am sorry.

 

[Hydronium]

Ah I knew nothing about that negative feedback with the liver - that actually makes a lot of sense. Only 1 thing I see as potentially confusing with what you said.

Now you are making all the estrogen you need whilst keeping the breast area safe guarded.

All the receptors are already taken up by the SERM, right? so all the estrogen the body needs can't bind to anything. Does it just wait around until the SERM leaves? SERMS bind everywhere, not just breast tissue.

Sorry I sound like a nag, but I just wanna be safe before I pull the trigger on my first Hdrol cycle.

 

[mattrag]

Ah I knew nothing about that negative feedback with the liver - that actually makes a lot of sense. Only 1 thing I see as potentially confusing with what you said.

All the receptors are already taken up by the SERM, right? so all the estrogen the body needs can't bind to anything. Does it just wait around until the SERM leaves? SERMS bind everywhere, not just breast tissue.

Sorry I sound like a nag, but I just wanna be safe before I pull the trigger on my first Hdrol cycle.

http://www.jbc.org/content/278/9/6912.long


"While SERMs act as antagonists in breast, they exhibit estrogen-like effects in other tissues. Tamoxifen shows beneficial agonist effects, including prevention of osteoporosis, and harmful agonist effects, including emergence of tamoxifen-stimulated breast cancers and increased rates of uterine cancer."



here's just one study. but basically the effect of the serm is to block breast tissue receptors while stimulating other estrogen receptors. In other words it triggers the receptor to send the signal to produce more estrogen for that purpose, but it also will block the breast tissue because it has the opposite effect in those tissue types. But yes, it does "bind" everywhere.

 

[DangerDave]

All that estrogen that is free floating is metabolised by the liver.

The free floating estrogen can also be recognised by the liver and as a reaction triggers test production to "equal" out your est to test levels.

The whole time the SERM is preventing the estrogen from being picked up by your receptors.

That's what I got out of what Matt said. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Drizzie88]

Everything I love in the world (minus the banana hammocks and speedos). Lol.

Yet I predict a little bit of confusion for the newcomer who is looking for PCT info and stumbles onto the second page of this thread. They'd be like ?_?. WTF mate?.
Good thing all the informative stuff is condensed at the beginning! The rest of the thread should come with the disclaimer: "jk bro, jk. We like to have fun here."

That was this guy right here....

 

[ginge205]

That was this guy right here....

Pmsl good thread aint it

 

[Drizzie88]

Yeah... Very informative for a noob like myself...

 

[ginge205]

Yeah... Very informative for a noob like myself...

Lol

 

[Drizzie88]

Well every noob needs to learn about PCT, man thongs and speedos in the gym... Where else can you get such good info?

 

[ginge205]

We aim to please ;-)

 

[Drizzie88]

Yeah I'm finding my way around these forums and trying to get my feet wet... A lot of crazy **** I didn't know...

 

[ginge205]

Yeah u can find out any thing u want on here and a lot of funny pepoel.

 

[Airborne42]

Strongly Agreed!!! Lol

 

[iliketosquat]

thanks for posting this

 

[Drizzie88]

Just read this forum on bb.com guys starting a helladrol cycle with no PCT or liver support.. 100mg a day for 4 weeks...if I actually had a user name on there I would have posted this link for the retard...

 

[Gerbil]

As heartless as this sounds I would prefer not to let the monkeys on bb know that this site exists.

 

[ginge205]

Its surprising how meny pepoel do tht. A old friend of mine started taking decca and didnt even know what a pct was. Or what side effects it could have

 

[Drizzie88]

Yeah now I don't feel as bad for being anabolic retarded because those numb skulls are killing themselves while I'm learning how to preserve my liver

 

[ginge205]

Lol at least ur taking ur time to research