Ostarine better than Test for andropause?

[omni]

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/47697-lifeextension-male-hormone.html

I'm sure this is being discussed in the right place now.

 

[jinxie]

The OP's original topic was about a possible replacement for Trt. Maybe cheaper. I was on Trt, paying out of pocket. It was unfordable for me to be healthy and I went a different route. This is exactly the place to discuss alternative ways to combat andropause.

Omni, you really are behaving like an insolent child. Pay for health insurance and grow up.

That post is from LEF, and you ought to scroll down and read the prescriptive advice -- all natural supplements, except for certain meds scripted from doctors. And that post precedes the rule that I posted. While this board has evolved to allow discussion regarding TRT, it's not intended for research, unproven treatments, such as SARMS, research peps, etc.

I dont understand why you guys are so adamant that this discussion must be allowed here, as though you are somehow saving the day by vetting this issue before an audience that comes here for another reason.

This board is highly unique and should be honored. You are defiling it, willfully now.

~Your Smallish Troll

 

[omni]

I'm acting like a child because I don't agree with you? Who stated the name calling?---I guess with YOUR childish rants and temper tantrums you got your way. The subjects not even being discussed now.

 

[jinxie]

Amen doc. The only thing I'm more interested in right now than Osta is follistatin and the potential for permanent gene therapy to reduce the effect of myostatin.

Hey Omni, maybe you and JPK can redirect the subject back to "Osta" and the anti-aging pep Follistatin, LOL. A couple of chumps.

At least you guys accomplished one thing: this thread continues and the tags are causing the sponsor's SARMS ad to come up every time someone reads this thread. Foolish me, I've been bilked, LOL.

Like I said, this thread is agenda driven.

Now be a dude, and get off your research chemicals and secure insurance so us good citizens dont have to pay the bill when you get sent to the State hospital for ingesting excessive acetone.

~Your Smallish Troll

 

[aj power]

Jinxie if you were right this thread would have been closed or moved as appropriate, I have managed boards before and this is a 5 second job. It clearly has not been this is because it belongs here!

However I guess you have gotten want you wanted anyway as who would bother posting here now knowing there just going to cop crap from you ... Well done I hope it helps you sleep better at night.

Oh and before you reply remember this from the rules: Exchanges of opinions, views and ideas are encouraged and welcomed here at AM. Adversarial discourse is not. So give the insults a rest would you.

 

[EasyEJL]

Omni, you really are behaving like an insolent child. Pay for health insurance and grow up.

That post is from LEF, and you ought to scroll down and read the prescriptive advice -- all natural supplements, except for certain meds scripted from doctors. And that post precedes the rule that I posted. While this board has evolved to allow discussion regarding TRT, it's not intended for research, unproven treatments, such as SARMS, research peps, etc.

I dont understand why you guys are so adamant that this discussion must be allowed here, as though you are somehow saving the day by vetting this issue before an audience that comes here for another reason.

This board is highly unique and should be honored. You are defiling it, willfully now.

~Your Smallish Troll

I still think this is a valid piece of discussion. Ostarine isn't a reasonable full testosterone replacement, but still potentially has a place as an adjunct. I could see being on light trt @100 mg or under, and low dose (3mg, clinical level) Ostarine as being more beneficial to anti-aging than a higher dose of testosterone alone.

You even suggest HCG, which is an off label non FDA approved usage. The lines blur easily. Most regular doctors won't even prescribe an AI, as those are used for female breast cancer victims.

 

[jinxie]

I still think this is a valid piece of discussion. Ostarine isn't a reasonable full testosterone replacement, but still potentially has a place as an adjunct. I could see being on light trt @100 mg or under, and low dose (3mg, clinical level) Ostarine as being more beneficial to anti-aging than a higher dose of testosterone alone.

You even suggest HCG, which is an off label non FDA approved usage. The lines blur easily. Most regular doctors won't even prescribe an AI, as those are used for female breast cancer victims.

Easy, as I clarified, this is not just the 35+ board, that's another board.

And no one tried to squander mention or brief discussion. This is not how this was tee'd up. Look at the subject. Shoot, look at your response, which was well put. But that wasn't enough.

As for hCG, it's in the PDR, approved for secondary hypo as well as MALE fertility, among other male uses (children without descended testicles), so I am not sure what you are talking about there.

If you guys would like to argue just to argue, we can bare knuckle it by email. I can assure you, I can take on 3, 4, 5 at once, LOL. I don't say things without deliberately thinking them through, unless in jest.

This thread violates the mission statement of this board, and I don't understand why it is you guys can move it.

But screw it. I am done vollying. I am very disappointed that people are not willing to reconsider their own behavior and self police. But that's a reflection of who we are as a people -- wholly self indulgent and always doing what is most convenient, without regard to how it impacts them in the longer term. That's quite a metaphor.

 

[jinxie]

Jinxie if you were right this thread would have been closed or moved as appropriate, I have managed boards before and this is a 5 second job. It clearly has not been this is because it belongs here!

However I guess you have gotten want you wanted anyway as who would bother posting here now knowing there just going to cop crap from you ... Well done I hope it helps you sleep better at night.

Oh and before you reply remember this from the rules: Exchanges of opinions, views and ideas are encouraged and welcomed here at AM. Adversarial discourse is not. So give the insults a rest would you.

Man, you guys must have studied different logic than me. But I will say, this one comes in hand -- after this, therefore because of this, including the absence of leading to inferernce by negative implication. No one has close the thread, so it's legit. I guess the same goes for the guy that's mail ordering tren -- it passes the mail, so it's legal. LMAO.

You would be eaten alive at mind & muscle, and rightfully so. I expected more from Australia.

I am done not because I am conceding, but because you are incapable of mature, thoughtful discussion regarding the intended purpose of the board. As for Ostarine, just track OP's posts, and you will find them on the anabolics board.

 

[aj power]

I still think this is a valid piece of discussion. Ostarine isn't a reasonable full testosterone replacement, but still potentially has a place as an adjunct. I could see being on light trt @100 mg or under, and low dose (3mg, clinical level) Ostarine as being more beneficial to anti-aging than a higher dose of testosterone alone.

You even suggest HCG, which is an off label non FDA approved usage. The lines blur easily. Most regular doctors won't even prescribe an AI, as those are used for female breast cancer victims.

That dosing idea has been my idea. Potentially the synergistic affect will include all the benefits of both medicines with none of the sides. The sarm might help level out the highs and lows at least in my case. However right now the stuff is experimental and the idea of taking it for any great length of time is not such a good idea.

 

[jinxie]

That dosing idea has been my idea. Potentially the synergistic affect will include all the benefits of both medicines with none of the sides. The sarm might help level out the highs and lows at least in my case. However right now the stuff is experimental and the idea of taking it for any great length of time is not such a good idea.

Aromasin could accomplish all of that, assuming you have a doctor that is open to this. It will increase test by 20%, reduce E2 to proper levels without much chance of going too low (listen to your joints; shouldn't impair libido), it will drop your SHGB a little and free up testosterone. And as important, it will help your lipid profile if you are taking anything else for AI control, as aromasin is much more specific than say Adex. And there is no rebound. WILL ALSO INCREASE IGF-1, as GP duly noted.

As I see it, for those with E2 issues, Aromasin potentiates TRT (whether via hCG or Test) and reduces negative side effects from aromatization. This seems like a more rational choice for the anti-aging purposes.

The SARMS are not only unproven, but, AFAIK, there are few sources and who knows whether they are reliable other than anecdotal evidence on, uh, anabolics boards.

 

[jpk]

Found this today:

"The use of SARMs for the treatment of androgen deficiency syndromes in men has been proposed; the relative advantages of SARMs over testosterone for this indication are not readily apparent. Many biological functions of testosterone, especially its effects on libido and behavior, bone, and plasma lipids require its aromatization to estrogen; because the currently available SARMs are neither aromatized nor 5-alpha reduced, these compounds would face an uphill regulatory bar for approval as they would be required to show efficacy and safety in many more domains of androgen action than has been required of testosterone formulations."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2907129/

This researcher is expressing some of the same doubts as those posted on this board about these first generation SARMs.

 

[aj power]

Found this today:

"The use of SARMs for the treatment of androgen deficiency syndromes in men has been proposed; the relative advantages of SARMs over testosterone for this indication are not readily apparent. Many biological functions of testosterone, especially its effects on libido and behavior, bone, and plasma lipids require its aromatization to estrogen; because the currently available SARMs are neither aromatized nor 5-alpha reduced, these compounds would face an uphill regulatory bar for approval as they would be required to show efficacy and safety in many more domains of androgen action than has been required of testosterone formulations."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2907129/

This researcher is expressing some of the same doubts as those posted on this board about these first generation SARMs.

Nice find haven't read it all yet but this jumped out at me;

Summary

SARMs hold promise as a new class of function promoting anabolic therapies for a number of clinical indications, including functional limitations associated with aging and chronic disease, frailty, cancer cachexia, and osteoporosis.

But seriously mate this is the anti-aging section why you posting it here? LMAO!

 

[EasyEJL]

Here's an interesting possible additional reason why ostarine would be less than perfect

http://hrt-rx.com/2011/01/25/is-low-testosterone-a-prostate-cancer-risk/

 

[jpk]

Here's an earlier paper expressing hope for the development of more specific SARMs for use in andropause treatment. I think the bottom line is that we're not there yet. Probably in the future we'll have the ability to concoct specific ratios of different SARMs, possibly including a certain level of test, to affect target tissues in specific ways. For instance, I see the need for a greater mood and libido effect than Osta delivers. If there was a SARM out there that would deliver this effect with the same low level of sides and toxicity, some combo of the two might be more effective.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15994457?ordinalpos=1&itool=PPMCLayout.PPMCAppController.PPMCArticlePage.PPMCPubmedRA&linkpos=2

Here's the summary:

"Androgens are essential for male development and the maintenance of male secondary characteristics, such as bone mass, muscle mass, body composition, and spermatogenesis. The main disadvantages of steroidal androgens are their undesirable physicochemical and pharmacokinetic properties. The recent discovery of nonsteroidal selective androgen receptor modulators (SARMs) provides a promising alternative for testosterone replacement therapies with advantages including oral bioavailability, flexibility of structural modification, androgen receptor specificity, tissue selectivity, and the lack of steroid-related side effects."

 

[BigBlackGuy]

Eh. The androseries is coming out soon. DSHEA compliant oral testosterone. Ostarine isn't even in the runnings anymore for this. And I STILL wouldn't tell people who could get injectables to run androseries for TRT.

Only if they hate needles or they can't access them (or want to switch for some reason?).

 

[EasyEJL]

Eh. The androseries is coming out soon. DSHEA compliant oral testosterone. Ostarine isn't even in the runnings anymore for this. And I STILL wouldn't tell people who could get injectables to run androseries for TRT.

Only if they hate needles or they can't access them (or want to switch for some reason?).

Seriously? No peer reviewed published studies, not sure how many people if any have taken it yet, and you'd recommend it over real testosterone? Better watch out, the FDA doesn't take kindly to companies making pharmaceutical claims for OTC products.

Its one thing to recommend it for cycling use for bodybuilders, but quite another to recommend it for health / anti-aging purposes. TRT isn't a 4-6 week cycle, its multi-year.

 

[jinxie]

Seriously? No peer reviewed published studies, not sure how many people if any have taken it yet, and you'd recommend it over real testosterone? Better watch out, the FDA doesn't take kindly to companies making pharmaceutical claims for OTC products.

Its one thing to recommend it for cycling use for bodybuilders, but quite another to recommend it for health / anti-aging purposes. TRT isn't a 4-6 week cycle, its multi-year.

Well put, Easy.

 

[EasyEJL]

Well put, Easy.

thats not to say I wouldn't use it but i'd be injecting 150mg/wk of cypionate alongside it as i'm prescribed.

 

[jinxie]

thats not to say I wouldn't use it but i'd be injecting 150mg/wk of cypionate alongside it as i'm prescribed.

Understood. Just as I may take Deca, GHRP or such and such. But I am not going to promote it as anti-aging, with a sensational subject title suggesting they are test replacements, LOL. But we've already beaten that horse to death.

Incidentally, hCG really is prescribed for hypogonadism, secondary. That's all I take -- no Test. Took me from 300 to 1200 TT, and because of tapering, I am at around 900. I've never cycled in the conventional sense. I've been tempted, but it's one of those things where I've gone this long without ... not that this defense is that compelling. The compelling thing is I have things well balanced now, so why mess with it. This is a marathon, not a race, for me.

 

[EasyEJL]

I don't think we ever cleanly determined whether mine was secondary or primary, but i'm ok with injections. Thats what my urologist does (no HCG) and good enough for me.

 

[jinxie]

I don't think we ever cleanly determined whether mine was secondary or primary, but i'm ok with injections. Thats what my urologist does (no HCG) and good enough for me.

I hear you. My endo does gel. I sought out Dr. M, so I could try hCG to maintain fertility. And then I returned to my endo.

 

[EasyEJL]

3 kids, i'm done with fertility

 

[jinxie]

3 kids, i'm done with fertility

Yeah, you don't need balls anymore. You just need the keys to the golden handcuffs.

 

[Gutterpump]

hMG is the real answer to fertility though! HCG is still a lil iffy I think cos it's only responsible for producing test, not sperm. Thing is HCG is faaaaaar cheaper, and usually it works well enough.

 

[jinxie]

hMG is the real answer to fertility though! HCG is still a lil iffy I think cos it's only responsible for producing test, not sperm. Thing is HCG is faaaaaar cheaper, and usually it works well enough.

Not taking for fertility per se, just don't want to lose fertility via straight test -- and why take both if one works well for you, as it does me. So we are both right.

 

[EasyEJL]

Yeah, you don't need balls anymore. You just need the keys to the golden handcuffs.

I just use nylon/velcro cuffs :dunno:

 

[jinxie]

I just use nylon/velcro cuffs :dunno:

LOL -- but I meant the cost of kids that force you to earn, earn, earn.

I use my lifting hooks. They don't work for much else, as they hurt like hell if you go reasonably heavy.

 

[EasyEJL]

LOL -- but I meant the cost of kids that force you to earn, earn, earn.

I use my lifting hooks. They don't work for much else, as they hurt like hell if you go reasonably heavy.

oh I meant on women.

 

[jinxie]

oh I meant on women.

Yeah, I know, LOL. That was clear. I meant women too, when I said I use my lifting hooks, as they are useless at the gym. They fit nicely around the bed frame, lol.

 

[BigBlackGuy]

Seriously? No peer reviewed published studies, not sure how many people if any have taken it yet, and you'd recommend it over real testosterone? Better watch out, the FDA doesn't take kindly to companies making pharmaceutical claims for OTC products.

Its one thing to recommend it for cycling use for bodybuilders, but quite another to recommend it for health / anti-aging purposes. TRT isn't a 4-6 week cycle, its multi-year.

Take it easy, Easy. No where in my post did I recommend the androseries for HRT or TRT.

And I didn't see you jump down the throat of the OP when he suggests Ostarine for Andropause. I mean hell his last 14 posts are in Ostarine related threads. Even I as a rep don't write that much about Primordial products.

Its one thing to recommend it for cycling use for bodybuilders, but quite another to recommend it for health / anti-aging purposes. TRT isn't a 4-6 week cycle, its multi-year.

You're right man just because I'm in my 20s must mean I can't know anything about TRT or how hormones work in the body.

 

[Gutterpump]

Not taking for fertility per se, just don't want to lose fertility via straight test -- and why take both if one works well for you, as it does me. So we are both right.

Nah I agree. I won't touch HMG until I'm actually attemting to have kids. Ropes are fine on fresh HCG. Without it, volume goes down quite a bit. Just hoping HMG doesn't cause twins or anything like that :|

 

[EasyEJL]

Take it easy, Easy. No where in my post did I recommend the androseries for HRT or TRT.

And I didn't see you jump down the throat of the OP when he suggests Ostarine for Andropause. I mean hell his last 14 posts are in Ostarine related threads. Even I as a rep don't write that much about Primordial products.



You're right man just because I'm in my 20s must mean I can't know anything about TRT or how hormones work in the body.

well, as far as the ostarine goes, there are studies (short term) showing some safety and efficiency with it. But it doesn't make sense either, as its not only muscle mass retention/fat loss that trt is about, its restoring the whole hormone cascade.

 

[jpk]

I'm interested in the SARMs because I'm kinda caught in the middle. I'm a 50 year old guy with test levels starting to drop, but not low enough 3 years ago to get anybody to prescribe exogenous test. The MDs around here are kinda stingy about that. I was told it's normal for levels to drop. Now, with my medical history (cancer), nobody wants to give me test.

I have no problem with trying things that won't ever be prescribed by a doctor. They have their agenda and limitations. I have my freedoms. Right now I'm more excited about the SARMs than PHs for the anabolic and healing potential they offer. They will probably play some role in anti-aging medicine some day along with other compounds (HcG, test, AIs) in an effort to arrive at the patient's goals. Believe it or not, I titled this thread purposely to get a reaction because I'm always interested in what the AM broscience consensus is on any new compound. 90% of the time I get better advice about health matters here than from my MDs. I've appreciated all comments both hostile and helpful.

 

[TheDarkHalf]

subbed

 

[BigBlackGuy]

well, as far as the ostarine goes, there are studies (short term) showing some safety and efficiency with it. But it doesn't make sense either, as its not only muscle mass retention/fat loss that trt is about, its restoring the whole hormone cascade.

Just wondering if you listened to Eric's interview on superhuman radio. It talks about this very thing. Very interesting even if you're not keen on the Androseries.

Also, I just saw on Russianstar's post that Ostarine does increase estrogen a little. That could be a plus, could be a minus.

 

[jinxie]

I'm interested in the SARMs because I'm kinda caught in the middle. I'm a 50 year old guy with test levels starting to drop, but not low enough 3 years ago to get anybody to prescribe exogenous test. The MDs around here are kinda stingy about that. I was told it's normal for levels to drop. Now, with my medical history (cancer), nobody wants to give me test.

I have no problem with trying things that won't ever be prescribed by a doctor. They have their agenda and limitations. I have my freedoms. Right now I'm more excited about the SARMs than PHs for the anabolic and healing potential they offer. They will probably play some role in anti-aging medicine some day along with other compounds (HcG, test, AIs) in an effort to arrive at the patient's goals. Believe it or not, I titled this thread purposely to get a reaction because I'm always interested in what the AM broscience consensus is on any new compound. 90% of the time I get better advice about health matters here than from my MDs. I've appreciated all comments both hostile and helpful.

You just admitted the improper use of this board on the basis of the mental horse power. That's just lame. You are pathetic.

I have my agenda too -- it's to tell you to STFU and to put some damn pants on, pudgy. If I get penalized for that, I don't give a damn. Your posts should be on another board -- SARMS and PHs don't belong on this board, except in passing and the title of this thread is imbicilic. And that picture, it shouldn't be anywhere on a board with the word "anabolic" associated with it. Maybe "Lipophylic Minds."

 

[Steveoph]

Makes me sad when a thread gets hijacked and I have to wade through so many posts to get to the real meat of the thread.

Eh. The androseries is coming out soon. DSHEA compliant oral testosterone. Ostarine isn't even in the runnings anymore for this. And I STILL wouldn't tell people who could get injectables to run androseries for TRT.

Only if they hate needles or they can't access them (or want to switch for some reason?).

Seriously? No peer reviewed published studies, not sure how many people if any have taken it yet, and you'd recommend it over real testosterone? Better watch out, the FDA doesn't take kindly to companies making pharmaceutical claims for OTC products.

Its one thing to recommend it for cycling use for bodybuilders, but quite another to recommend it for health / anti-aging purposes. TRT isn't a 4-6 week cycle, its multi-year.

If you read carefully, he says he wouldn't recommend Androseries to someone who can get TRT via injections.

hMG is the real answer to fertility though! HCG is still a lil iffy I think cos it's only responsible for producing test, not sperm. Thing is HCG is faaaaaar cheaper, and usually it works well enough.

Price. Exactly. Plus a lot of TRT is more andropause related, and if hCG is able to maintain testes size, libido, and testosterone levels hMG is really only useful if they're trying to be fertile. And there's atleast a study or two out there looking at sperm viability after switching from hCG to hMG + hCG and I think they became viable with a mean time of around 6months but don't quote me.

Just wondering if you listened to Eric's interview on superhuman radio. It talks about this very thing. Very interesting even if you're not keen on the Androseries.

Also, I just saw on Russianstar's post that Ostarine does increase estrogen a little. That could be a plus, could be a minus.

It's always a good talk, but way too long. They need a coles notes.

Thoughts re: Ostarine: as many have stated, it won't properly recreate the hormonal milieu but I'm sure there will be medical applications for patients suffering from massive muscle wasting if nothing else. There might be an application for it as an adjuvant to low level TRT to improve libido and mood but there needs to be some further safety studies done then an endo needs to experiment with some different regiments/dosages.

 

[jinxie]

Makes me sad when a thread gets hijacked with hijinx and I have to wade through so many posts to get to the real meat of the thread.





If you read carefully, he says he wouldn't recommend Androseries to someone who can get TRT via injections.


Price. Exactly. Plus a lot of TRT is more andropause related, and if hCG is able to maintain testes size, libido, and testosterone levels hMG is really only useful if they're trying to be fertile. And there's atleast a study or two out there looking at sperm viability after switching from hCG to hMG + hCG and I think they became viable with a mean time of around 6months but don't quote me.

It's always a good talk, but way too long. They need a coles notes.

Thoughts re: Ostarine: as many have stated, it won't properly recreate the hormonal milieu but I'm sure there will be medical applications for patients suffering from massive muscle wasting if nothing else. There might be an application for it as an adjuvant to low level TRT to improve libido and mood but there needs to be some further safety studies done then an endo needs to experiment with some different regiments/dosages.

It's been hijacked because it doesn't belong here. And that's also the reason posters have posted actual TRT concepts, rather than Ostarine RC. This was never intended as HRT or TRT from the start. And how could it be any more than something like Deca. It's hugely disappointing, as is the asshat's admission as to why he posted it here, with a sensational headline. A year ago, this crap would not have been allowed by the board. It would have just gone ignored, after someone said it didn't belong here, such as Matrix.

 

[EasyEJL]

Just wondering if you listened to Eric's interview on superhuman radio. It talks about this very thing. Very interesting even if you're not keen on the Androseries.

Also, I just saw on Russianstar's post that Ostarine does increase estrogen a little. That could be a plus, could be a minus.

no, but I may listen to it today. I am pretty keen on the androseries as an adjunct on top of TRT. its handy to not have to worry about any pct at all, and substances that don't carry a liver strain hit (and ones that have lower androgenic activity) are pretty interesting to me.

 

[Gutterpump]

I just use nylon/velcro cuffs :dunno:

It's all about ropes!! Velcro cuffs etc are for nooobs hehehe

 

[EasyEJL]

It's all about ropes!! Velcro cuffs etc are for nooobs hehehe

i'd rather have the velcro for when she uses em on me so I can escape if necessary

 

[jpk]

Wow,

Jinxie can't seem to tolerate any views differing from his own. He resorts to personal insults and attacks rather than intelligent dialogue. He's on a hair trigger if he feels his little ego is threatened. Even more revealing he feels that posting a pic of the cute little boyish beach body is supposed to help his arguments.

Jinxie, you are the most pitiful example of the "Small Man Complex" I have ever encountered on this board. The big people are trying to have a conversation here. Maybe you could take your personality disorder to group therapy or someplace else. Your constant screaming for the mods to come help your case reminds me of a schoolyard punk incapable of backing up his words without his big friends around. Go talk about your failed hormones someplace else please.

 

[aj power]

Wow,

Jinxie can't seem to tolerate any views differing from his own. He resorts to personal insults and attacks rather than intelligent dialogue. He's on a hair trigger if he feels his little ego is threatened. Even more revealing he feels that posting a pic of the cute little boyish beach body is supposed to help his arguments.

Jinxie, you are the most pitiful example of the "Small Man Complex" I have ever encountered on this board. The big people are trying to have a conversation here. Maybe you could take your personality disorder to group therapy or someplace else. Your constant screaming for the mods to come help your case reminds me of a schoolyard punk incapable of backing up his words without his big friends around. Go talk about your failed hormones someplace else please.

Ha Ha you summed him up very well!

Personally I think he is failing to respond to his CBT so I have no idea why he recommends it to others so frequently :dunno: So with all due respect I would suggest he dumps his current therapist and finds one that practices ACT, a number of studies have shown it to be superior!

 

[ImJ2x]

Hmm...
I know almost nothing about HRT or Ostarine. But at my age, it's probably time I learned. That's what brought me to this thread in the first place. And with that disclaimer, I don't quite understand the vehemence of Jinxie's objections. It seems as though Ostarine is being considered for it's potential in anti-aging medicine. Jinxie seems to have reached an extremely premature conclusion to the contrary. And that's certainly his right. But his overly-aggressive challenges to those who wish to maintain an open mind about the subject are ill-advised. And his sophomoric insults to those who disagree with him are obnoxious. And his overly-inflated opinion of himself is just pitiful. (I can absolutely assure you, Mr. Jinxie, that most of the brothers on this board are far less impressed by your pics than you seem to be.)
That said, he does seem to be intelligent, articulate, and well-informed on the very matters we discuss on this board.
To paraphrase: Jinxie, I may disagree with what you say (and certainly with how you say it), but I will always defend your right to say it. You should consider a similar attitude towards the others who choose to speak on this board.

 

[omni]

Hmm...
I know almost nothing about HRT or Ostarine. But at my age, it's probably time I learned. That's what brought me to this thread in the first place. And with that disclaimer, I don't quite understand the vehemence of Jinxie's objections. It seems as though Ostarine is being considered for it's potential in anti-aging medicine. Jinxie seems to have reached an extremely premature conclusion to the contrary. And that's certainly his right. But his overly-aggressive challenges to those who wish to maintain an open mind about the subject are ill-advised. And his sophomoric insults to those who disagree with him are obnoxious. And his overly-inflated opinion of himself is just pitiful. (I can absolutely assure you, Mr. Jinxie, that most of the brothers on this board are far less impressed by your pics than you seem to be.)
That said, he does seem to be intelligent, articulate, and well-informed on the very matters we discuss on this board.
To paraphrase: Jinxie, I may disagree with what you say (and certainly with how you say it), but I will always defend your right to say it. You should consider a similar attitude towards the others who choose to speak on this board.

I was on Trt but I don't know enough about it. All I wanted at the beginning of this thread is for the guys with knowledge to be able to discuss a different option freely. I'm glad I'm not alone.

 

[BigBlackGuy]

no, but I may listen to it today. I am pretty keen on the androseries as an adjunct on top of TRT. its handy to not have to worry about any pct at all, and substances that don't carry a liver strain hit (and ones that have lower androgenic activity) are pretty interesting to me.

Yah, Androhard is one of the most popular because it's straight DHT. That's the one I want to try.

To get back on topic, I don't see why ostarine would need to be used for TRT. Like you said Easy, PCT isn't a problem when you don't need to do it, so using a non-suppressive substance that is weak and probably less effective than actual test doesn't seem logical. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

 

[EasyEJL]

Yah, Androhard is one of the most popular because it's straight DHT. That's the one I want to try.

To get back on topic, I don't see why ostarine would need to be used for TRT. Like you said Easy, PCT isn't a problem when you don't need to do it, so using a non-suppressive substance that is weak and probably less effective than actual test doesn't seem logical. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

well, the point is that say for instance right now I use 150mg a week of testosterone cypionate. Beyond that providing a reasonable overall blood level it happens that I have high aromatase activity, and so my estrogen is always at or over top of normal range. My doctor doesnt like prescrbing AIs. So another option for me would be to drop the testosterone to 100mg and alongside it use say 3-6mg of ostarine a day to keep enough anabolic/androgenic activity as if I was using a higher testosterone amount.

Androhard would be interesting and good for my current goals but both me + my doctor are concerned a bit about how my PSA levels bounce all over the place so i'm iffy.

 

[ImJ2x]

Easy, why wouldn't you use an OTC AI? ATD (am I using enough acronyms, LOL) is a very strong AI-- nearly as strong as Letro, I hear. I use it to obliterate gyno, exactly like Letro. [But the feds just made Gaspari pull Novedex. They must have ATD in their sights. I just stocked up...]

 

[EasyEJL]

Easy, why wouldn't you use an OTC AI? ATD (am I using enough acronyms, LOL) is a very strong AI-- nearly as strong as Letro, I hear. I use it to obliterate gyno, exactly like Letro. [But the feds just made Gaspari pull Novedex. They must have ATD in their sights. I just stocked up...]

well, that is a possibility, but long term most of the either OTC or prescription AIs have negative side effects, whether its messing up lipid levels, lowering IGF levels, etc. Another thought is if you are prone to BPH, ostarine with a lower testosterone dose would likely help.

Honestly i'm pretty ok with my E2 even reaching into the mid to upper 60s, it doesn't cause any negative issues thank god. I was more or less throwing it out there as an idea for why ostarine alongside testosterone might make sense as part of a TRT program.

 

[BigBlackGuy]

well, the point is that say for instance right now I use 150mg a week of testosterone cypionate. Beyond that providing a reasonable overall blood level it happens that I have high aromatase activity, and so my estrogen is always at or over top of normal range. My doctor doesnt like prescrbing AIs. So another option for me would be to drop the testosterone to 100mg and alongside it use say 3-6mg of ostarine a day to keep enough anabolic/androgenic activity as if I was using a higher testosterone amount.

Androhard would be interesting and good for my current goals but both me + my doctor are concerned a bit about how my PSA levels bounce all over the place so i'm iffy.

I think new studies are showing that the prostate is worse when estrogen is high with low DHT and better when DHT is high with low estrogen. That's why aging men have prostate issues and younger men with their high test don't. But I haven't the time to look the studies up right now :aargh: