http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/47697-lifeextension-male-hormone.html
I'm sure this is being discussed in the right place now.
I'm sure this is being discussed in the right place now.
Omni, you really are behaving like an insolent child. Pay for health insurance and grow up.The OP's original topic was about a possible replacement for Trt. Maybe cheaper. I was on Trt, paying out of pocket. It was unfordable for me to be healthy and I went a different route. This is exactly the place to discuss alternative ways to combat andropause.
Hey Omni, maybe you and JPK can redirect the subject back to "Osta" and the anti-aging pep Follistatin, LOL. A couple of chumps.Amen doc. The only thing I'm more interested in right now than Osta is follistatin and the potential for permanent gene therapy to reduce the effect of myostatin.
I still think this is a valid piece of discussion. Ostarine isn't a reasonable full testosterone replacement, but still potentially has a place as an adjunct. I could see being on light trt @100 mg or under, and low dose (3mg, clinical level) Ostarine as being more beneficial to anti-aging than a higher dose of testosterone alone.Omni, you really are behaving like an insolent child. Pay for health insurance and grow up.
That post is from LEF, and you ought to scroll down and read the prescriptive advice -- all natural supplements, except for certain meds scripted from doctors. And that post precedes the rule that I posted. While this board has evolved to allow discussion regarding TRT, it's not intended for research, unproven treatments, such as SARMS, research peps, etc.
I dont understand why you guys are so adamant that this discussion must be allowed here, as though you are somehow saving the day by vetting this issue before an audience that comes here for another reason.
This board is highly unique and should be honored. You are defiling it, willfully now.
~Your Smallish Troll
Easy, as I clarified, this is not just the 35+ board, that's another board.I still think this is a valid piece of discussion. Ostarine isn't a reasonable full testosterone replacement, but still potentially has a place as an adjunct. I could see being on light trt @100 mg or under, and low dose (3mg, clinical level) Ostarine as being more beneficial to anti-aging than a higher dose of testosterone alone.
You even suggest HCG, which is an off label non FDA approved usage. The lines blur easily. Most regular doctors won't even prescribe an AI, as those are used for female breast cancer victims.
Man, you guys must have studied different logic than me. But I will say, this one comes in hand -- after this, therefore because of this, including the absence of leading to inferernce by negative implication. No one has close the thread, so it's legit. I guess the same goes for the guy that's mail ordering tren -- it passes the mail, so it's legal. LMAO.Jinxie if you were right this thread would have been closed or moved as appropriate, I have managed boards before and this is a 5 second job. It clearly has not been this is because it belongs here!
However I guess you have gotten want you wanted anyway as who would bother posting here now knowing there just going to cop crap from you ... Well done I hope it helps you sleep better at night.
Oh and before you reply remember this from the rules: Exchanges of opinions, views and ideas are encouraged and welcomed here at AM. Adversarial discourse is not. So give the insults a rest would you.
That dosing idea has been my idea. Potentially the synergistic affect will include all the benefits of both medicines with none of the sides. The sarm might help level out the highs and lows at least in my case. However right now the stuff is experimental and the idea of taking it for any great length of time is not such a good idea.I still think this is a valid piece of discussion. Ostarine isn't a reasonable full testosterone replacement, but still potentially has a place as an adjunct. I could see being on light trt @100 mg or under, and low dose (3mg, clinical level) Ostarine as being more beneficial to anti-aging than a higher dose of testosterone alone.
You even suggest HCG, which is an off label non FDA approved usage. The lines blur easily. Most regular doctors won't even prescribe an AI, as those are used for female breast cancer victims.
Aromasin could accomplish all of that, assuming you have a doctor that is open to this. It will increase test by 20%, reduce E2 to proper levels without much chance of going too low (listen to your joints; shouldn't impair libido), it will drop your SHGB a little and free up testosterone. And as important, it will help your lipid profile if you are taking anything else for AI control, as aromasin is much more specific than say Adex. And there is no rebound. WILL ALSO INCREASE IGF-1, as GP duly noted.That dosing idea has been my idea. Potentially the synergistic affect will include all the benefits of both medicines with none of the sides. The sarm might help level out the highs and lows at least in my case. However right now the stuff is experimental and the idea of taking it for any great length of time is not such a good idea.
Found this today:
"The use of SARMs for the treatment of androgen deficiency syndromes in men has been proposed; the relative advantages of SARMs over testosterone for this indication are not readily apparent. Many biological functions of testosterone, especially its effects on libido and behavior, bone, and plasma lipids require its aromatization to estrogen; because the currently available SARMs are neither aromatized nor 5-alpha reduced, these compounds would face an uphill regulatory bar for approval as they would be required to show efficacy and safety in many more domains of androgen action than has been required of testosterone formulations."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2907129/
This researcher is expressing some of the same doubts as those posted on this board about these first generation SARMs.
Seriously? No peer reviewed published studies, not sure how many people if any have taken it yet, and you'd recommend it over real testosterone? Better watch out, the FDA doesn't take kindly to companies making pharmaceutical claims for OTC products.Eh. The androseries is coming out soon. DSHEA compliant oral testosterone. Ostarine isn't even in the runnings anymore for this. And I STILL wouldn't tell people who could get injectables to run androseries for TRT.
Only if they hate needles or they can't access them (or want to switch for some reason?).
Well put, Easy.Seriously? No peer reviewed published studies, not sure how many people if any have taken it yet, and you'd recommend it over real testosterone? Better watch out, the FDA doesn't take kindly to companies making pharmaceutical claims for OTC products.
Its one thing to recommend it for cycling use for bodybuilders, but quite another to recommend it for health / anti-aging purposes. TRT isn't a 4-6 week cycle, its multi-year.
thats not to say I wouldn't use it but i'd be injecting 150mg/wk of cypionate alongside it as i'm prescribed.Well put, Easy.
Understood. Just as I may take Deca, GHRP or such and such. But I am not going to promote it as anti-aging, with a sensational subject title suggesting they are test replacements, LOL. But we've already beaten that horse to death.thats not to say I wouldn't use it but i'd be injecting 150mg/wk of cypionate alongside it as i'm prescribed.
I hear you. My endo does gel. I sought out Dr. M, so I could try hCG to maintain fertility. And then I returned to my endo.I don't think we ever cleanly determined whether mine was secondary or primary, but i'm ok with injections. Thats what my urologist does (no HCG) and good enough for me.
Yeah, you don't need balls anymore. You just need the keys to the golden handcuffs.3 kids, i'm done with fertility
Not taking for fertility per se, just don't want to lose fertility via straight test -- and why take both if one works well for you, as it does me. So we are both right.hMG is the real answer to fertility though! HCG is still a lil iffy I think cos it's only responsible for producing test, not sperm. Thing is HCG is faaaaaar cheaper, and usually it works well enough.
I just use nylon/velcro cuffs :dunno:Yeah, you don't need balls anymore. You just need the keys to the golden handcuffs.
LOL -- but I meant the cost of kids that force you to earn, earn, earn.I just use nylon/velcro cuffs :dunno:
oh I meant on women.LOL -- but I meant the cost of kids that force you to earn, earn, earn.
I use my lifting hooks. They don't work for much else, as they hurt like hell if you go reasonably heavy.
Yeah, I know, LOL. That was clear. I meant women too, when I said I use my lifting hooks, as they are useless at the gym. They fit nicely around the bed frame, lol.oh I meant on women.
Take it easy, Easy. No where in my post did I recommend the androseries for HRT or TRT.Seriously? No peer reviewed published studies, not sure how many people if any have taken it yet, and you'd recommend it over real testosterone? Better watch out, the FDA doesn't take kindly to companies making pharmaceutical claims for OTC products.
Its one thing to recommend it for cycling use for bodybuilders, but quite another to recommend it for health / anti-aging purposes. TRT isn't a 4-6 week cycle, its multi-year.
You're right man just because I'm in my 20s must mean I can't know anything about TRT or how hormones work in the body.Its one thing to recommend it for cycling use for bodybuilders, but quite another to recommend it for health / anti-aging purposes. TRT isn't a 4-6 week cycle, its multi-year.
Nah I agree. I won't touch HMG until I'm actually attemting to have kids. Ropes are fine on fresh HCG. Without it, volume goes down quite a bit. Just hoping HMG doesn't cause twins or anything like that :|Not taking for fertility per se, just don't want to lose fertility via straight test -- and why take both if one works well for you, as it does me. So we are both right.
well, as far as the ostarine goes, there are studies (short term) showing some safety and efficiency with it. But it doesn't make sense either, as its not only muscle mass retention/fat loss that trt is about, its restoring the whole hormone cascade.Take it easy, Easy. No where in my post did I recommend the androseries for HRT or TRT.
And I didn't see you jump down the throat of the OP when he suggests Ostarine for Andropause. I mean hell his last 14 posts are in Ostarine related threads. Even I as a rep don't write that much about Primordial products.
You're right man just because I'm in my 20s must mean I can't know anything about TRT or how hormones work in the body.
Just wondering if you listened to Eric's interview on superhuman radio. It talks about this very thing. Very interesting even if you're not keen on the Androseries.well, as far as the ostarine goes, there are studies (short term) showing some safety and efficiency with it. But it doesn't make sense either, as its not only muscle mass retention/fat loss that trt is about, its restoring the whole hormone cascade.
You just admitted the improper use of this board on the basis of the mental horse power. That's just lame. You are pathetic.I'm interested in the SARMs because I'm kinda caught in the middle. I'm a 50 year old guy with test levels starting to drop, but not low enough 3 years ago to get anybody to prescribe exogenous test. The MDs around here are kinda stingy about that. I was told it's normal for levels to drop. Now, with my medical history (cancer), nobody wants to give me test.
I have no problem with trying things that won't ever be prescribed by a doctor. They have their agenda and limitations. I have my freedoms. Right now I'm more excited about the SARMs than PHs for the anabolic and healing potential they offer. They will probably play some role in anti-aging medicine some day along with other compounds (HcG, test, AIs) in an effort to arrive at the patient's goals. Believe it or not, I titled this thread purposely to get a reaction because I'm always interested in what the AM broscience consensus is on any new compound. 90% of the time I get better advice about health matters here than from my MDs. I've appreciated all comments both hostile and helpful.
Eh. The androseries is coming out soon. DSHEA compliant oral testosterone. Ostarine isn't even in the runnings anymore for this. And I STILL wouldn't tell people who could get injectables to run androseries for TRT.
Only if they hate needles or they can't access them (or want to switch for some reason?).
If you read carefully, he says he wouldn't recommend Androseries to someone who can get TRT via injections.Seriously? No peer reviewed published studies, not sure how many people if any have taken it yet, and you'd recommend it over real testosterone? Better watch out, the FDA doesn't take kindly to companies making pharmaceutical claims for OTC products.
Its one thing to recommend it for cycling use for bodybuilders, but quite another to recommend it for health / anti-aging purposes. TRT isn't a 4-6 week cycle, its multi-year.
Price. Exactly. Plus a lot of TRT is more andropause related, and if hCG is able to maintain testes size, libido, and testosterone levels hMG is really only useful if they're trying to be fertile. And there's atleast a study or two out there looking at sperm viability after switching from hCG to hMG + hCG and I think they became viable with a mean time of around 6months but don't quote me.hMG is the real answer to fertility though! HCG is still a lil iffy I think cos it's only responsible for producing test, not sperm. Thing is HCG is faaaaaar cheaper, and usually it works well enough.
It's always a good talk, but way too long. They need a coles notes.Just wondering if you listened to Eric's interview on superhuman radio. It talks about this very thing. Very interesting even if you're not keen on the Androseries.
Also, I just saw on Russianstar's post that Ostarine does increase estrogen a little. That could be a plus, could be a minus.
It's been hijacked because it doesn't belong here. And that's also the reason posters have posted actual TRT concepts, rather than Ostarine RC. This was never intended as HRT or TRT from the start. And how could it be any more than something like Deca. It's hugely disappointing, as is the asshat's admission as to why he posted it here, with a sensational headline. A year ago, this crap would not have been allowed by the board. It would have just gone ignored, after someone said it didn't belong here, such as Matrix.Makes me sad when a thread gets hijacked with hijinx and I have to wade through so many posts to get to the real meat of the thread.
If you read carefully, he says he wouldn't recommend Androseries to someone who can get TRT via injections.
Price. Exactly. Plus a lot of TRT is more andropause related, and if hCG is able to maintain testes size, libido, and testosterone levels hMG is really only useful if they're trying to be fertile. And there's atleast a study or two out there looking at sperm viability after switching from hCG to hMG + hCG and I think they became viable with a mean time of around 6months but don't quote me.
It's always a good talk, but way too long. They need a coles notes.
Thoughts re: Ostarine: as many have stated, it won't properly recreate the hormonal milieu but I'm sure there will be medical applications for patients suffering from massive muscle wasting if nothing else. There might be an application for it as an adjuvant to low level TRT to improve libido and mood but there needs to be some further safety studies done then an endo needs to experiment with some different regiments/dosages.
no, but I may listen to it today. I am pretty keen on the androseries as an adjunct on top of TRT. its handy to not have to worry about any pct at all, and substances that don't carry a liver strain hit (and ones that have lower androgenic activity) are pretty interesting to me.Just wondering if you listened to Eric's interview on superhuman radio. It talks about this very thing. Very interesting even if you're not keen on the Androseries.
Also, I just saw on Russianstar's post that Ostarine does increase estrogen a little. That could be a plus, could be a minus.
It's all about ropes!! Velcro cuffs etc are for nooobs heheheI just use nylon/velcro cuffs :dunno:
i'd rather have the velcro for when she uses em on me so I can escape if necessaryIt's all about ropes!! Velcro cuffs etc are for nooobs hehehe
Wow,
Jinxie can't seem to tolerate any views differing from his own. He resorts to personal insults and attacks rather than intelligent dialogue. He's on a hair trigger if he feels his little ego is threatened. Even more revealing he feels that posting a pic of the cute little boyish beach body is supposed to help his arguments.
Jinxie, you are the most pitiful example of the "Small Man Complex" I have ever encountered on this board. The big people are trying to have a conversation here. Maybe you could take your personality disorder to group therapy or someplace else. Your constant screaming for the mods to come help your case reminds me of a schoolyard punk incapable of backing up his words without his big friends around. Go talk about your failed hormones someplace else please.
I was on Trt but I don't know enough about it. All I wanted at the beginning of this thread is for the guys with knowledge to be able to discuss a different option freely. I'm glad I'm not alone.Hmm...
I know almost nothing about HRT or Ostarine. But at my age, it's probably time I learned. That's what brought me to this thread in the first place. And with that disclaimer, I don't quite understand the vehemence of Jinxie's objections. It seems as though Ostarine is being considered for it's potential in anti-aging medicine. Jinxie seems to have reached an extremely premature conclusion to the contrary. And that's certainly his right. But his overly-aggressive challenges to those who wish to maintain an open mind about the subject are ill-advised. And his sophomoric insults to those who disagree with him are obnoxious. And his overly-inflated opinion of himself is just pitiful. (I can absolutely assure you, Mr. Jinxie, that most of the brothers on this board are far less impressed by your pics than you seem to be.)
That said, he does seem to be intelligent, articulate, and well-informed on the very matters we discuss on this board.
To paraphrase: Jinxie, I may disagree with what you say (and certainly with how you say it), but I will always defend your right to say it. You should consider a similar attitude towards the others who choose to speak on this board.
Yah, Androhard is one of the most popular because it's straight DHT. That's the one I want to try.no, but I may listen to it today. I am pretty keen on the androseries as an adjunct on top of TRT. its handy to not have to worry about any pct at all, and substances that don't carry a liver strain hit (and ones that have lower androgenic activity) are pretty interesting to me.
well, the point is that say for instance right now I use 150mg a week of testosterone cypionate. Beyond that providing a reasonable overall blood level it happens that I have high aromatase activity, and so my estrogen is always at or over top of normal range. My doctor doesnt like prescrbing AIs. So another option for me would be to drop the testosterone to 100mg and alongside it use say 3-6mg of ostarine a day to keep enough anabolic/androgenic activity as if I was using a higher testosterone amount.Yah, Androhard is one of the most popular because it's straight DHT. That's the one I want to try.
To get back on topic, I don't see why ostarine would need to be used for TRT. Like you said Easy, PCT isn't a problem when you don't need to do it, so using a non-suppressive substance that is weak and probably less effective than actual test doesn't seem logical. Anyone have any thoughts on this?
well, that is a possibility, but long term most of the either OTC or prescription AIs have negative side effects, whether its messing up lipid levels, lowering IGF levels, etc. Another thought is if you are prone to BPH, ostarine with a lower testosterone dose would likely help.Easy, why wouldn't you use an OTC AI? ATD (am I using enough acronyms, LOL) is a very strong AI-- nearly as strong as Letro, I hear. I use it to obliterate gyno, exactly like Letro. [But the feds just made Gaspari pull Novedex. They must have ATD in their sights. I just stocked up...]
I think new studies are showing that the prostate is worse when estrogen is high with low DHT and better when DHT is high with low estrogen. That's why aging men have prostate issues and younger men with their high test don't. But I haven't the time to look the studies up right now :aargh:well, the point is that say for instance right now I use 150mg a week of testosterone cypionate. Beyond that providing a reasonable overall blood level it happens that I have high aromatase activity, and so my estrogen is always at or over top of normal range. My doctor doesnt like prescrbing AIs. So another option for me would be to drop the testosterone to 100mg and alongside it use say 3-6mg of ostarine a day to keep enough anabolic/androgenic activity as if I was using a higher testosterone amount.
Androhard would be interesting and good for my current goals but both me + my doctor are concerned a bit about how my PSA levels bounce all over the place so i'm iffy.