Emmanuel06
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Hey
Need some advice to find a good on cycle and PCT
Need some advice to find a good on cycle and PCT
teamguy312
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For my next cycle I will be running SNS Cardio XT for cardiovascular health, SNS kidney XT and SNS Liver XT. Also adding some DIM and P5P. To get a little more out of the liver supp, I'll add a 250mg cap of TUDCA and 1200mg or so of NAC. The SNS Kidney XT is dosed really well with all the good stuff as is the cardio XT, it's nice having supps that you don't have to add a bunch of things to in order to get the dose/formula you want.
As for serious pharma grade PCT, I've been a fan of clomid and nolva combined at a length of 4-6 weeks. 25mg of clomid a day and 10mg of nolva.
On cycle, my strategy is to have exemestane (aromasin) on hand to use along with some caber especially if you are using 19-nors and also some adex.
If you are going to go with a hi tech supp or something non-methylated along those lines, these supps become more beneficial to overall health instead of supporting a mild cycle as their purpose, if that makes sense.
The androtest you mentioned earlier is a good compound from what I've heard. 2 bottles or so would be even better if you are planning on using that as a test base and dosing it high, which it seems to have acted as one for a lot of people, great reviews on the stuff and always wanted to try it.
If you are running a cycle like this to devise a pinless cycle, there are compounds out there with very minimal sides that would make the whole cycle worth it, even better test bases than androtest, such as transdermal trestolone or oral mentabolan. I stand by my word that you'll be disappointed in the results of something like hi tech winstrol. so I'm recommending a sufficient enough test base that doesn't require injections, while at the same time giving you a sufficient test base to run something like anavar for 6-8 weeks, or even an old school methyl prohormone like epistane or halodrol.
Oh also, pick up some cardarine, it will balance your lipids, favoring HDL over LDL (what you want) while giving you energy for as much cardio as you want. It's a PPAR agongist if I remember correctly, I know for a fact it's not a SARM and there are less worries about health issues compared to something considered mild like ostarine. I'd run cardarine at 10-20mg for the entire length of the cycle at least, while considering to keep it throughout PCT. I think @Smont is a rep for a company that sells legit GW/card. Great addition to any cycle.
If you'd consider dropping the hi tech winstrol, even a 4 week run of anadrol, (last 4 weeks of cycle not the first 4) will net you gains that would make non methyls look like creatine.
If you are going to do this, have the proper PCT and cycle support on hand and go for it brother, work out just as hard on PCT as you did on cycle. Preferably get bloods before and after your cycle.
If you haven't run anything like anadrol, you'll fall in love with it. Less sides than dbol, sdrol, msten, etc while adding mass and vascularity that you can't believe.
If you want to lean out, get a sufficient enough test base for 12 weeks and run var weeks 6-12 or so around 40mg/day. Cardarine will help keep your HDL/LDL in check which var likes to try to **** up.
If you can get your hands of a bottle of transdermal trestolone (preferably trest acetate), that combined with a large dose of androtest would probably serve well.
If you want to do a 4 week cycle, grab something crazy, the milder stuff like epistane or halo usually takes 6 weeks or so to really hit the sweet spot. If you sourced good quality superdrol or anadrol and just run it for 4 weeks, use a gram of TUDCA and 1200-1800mg of NAC if you are concerned about using strong orals but don't forget the kidney supps and cardio supps either. Monitor your blood pressure and see if it goes too high on superdrol or something like that, it shouldn't, but it's safety first with me. Having some propranolol or lisinopril on hand to use if trest or something makes your BP skyrocket, but it's just aprecaution and unlikely to happen.
As for serious pharma grade PCT, I've been a fan of clomid and nolva combined at a length of 4-6 weeks. 25mg of clomid a day and 10mg of nolva.
On cycle, my strategy is to have exemestane (aromasin) on hand to use along with some caber especially if you are using 19-nors and also some adex.
If you are going to go with a hi tech supp or something non-methylated along those lines, these supps become more beneficial to overall health instead of supporting a mild cycle as their purpose, if that makes sense.
The androtest you mentioned earlier is a good compound from what I've heard. 2 bottles or so would be even better if you are planning on using that as a test base and dosing it high, which it seems to have acted as one for a lot of people, great reviews on the stuff and always wanted to try it.
If you are running a cycle like this to devise a pinless cycle, there are compounds out there with very minimal sides that would make the whole cycle worth it, even better test bases than androtest, such as transdermal trestolone or oral mentabolan. I stand by my word that you'll be disappointed in the results of something like hi tech winstrol. so I'm recommending a sufficient enough test base that doesn't require injections, while at the same time giving you a sufficient test base to run something like anavar for 6-8 weeks, or even an old school methyl prohormone like epistane or halodrol.
Oh also, pick up some cardarine, it will balance your lipids, favoring HDL over LDL (what you want) while giving you energy for as much cardio as you want. It's a PPAR agongist if I remember correctly, I know for a fact it's not a SARM and there are less worries about health issues compared to something considered mild like ostarine. I'd run cardarine at 10-20mg for the entire length of the cycle at least, while considering to keep it throughout PCT. I think @Smont is a rep for a company that sells legit GW/card. Great addition to any cycle.
If you'd consider dropping the hi tech winstrol, even a 4 week run of anadrol, (last 4 weeks of cycle not the first 4) will net you gains that would make non methyls look like creatine.
If you are going to do this, have the proper PCT and cycle support on hand and go for it brother, work out just as hard on PCT as you did on cycle. Preferably get bloods before and after your cycle.
If you haven't run anything like anadrol, you'll fall in love with it. Less sides than dbol, sdrol, msten, etc while adding mass and vascularity that you can't believe.
If you want to lean out, get a sufficient enough test base for 12 weeks and run var weeks 6-12 or so around 40mg/day. Cardarine will help keep your HDL/LDL in check which var likes to try to **** up.
If you can get your hands of a bottle of transdermal trestolone (preferably trest acetate), that combined with a large dose of androtest would probably serve well.
If you want to do a 4 week cycle, grab something crazy, the milder stuff like epistane or halo usually takes 6 weeks or so to really hit the sweet spot. If you sourced good quality superdrol or anadrol and just run it for 4 weeks, use a gram of TUDCA and 1200-1800mg of NAC if you are concerned about using strong orals but don't forget the kidney supps and cardio supps either. Monitor your blood pressure and see if it goes too high on superdrol or something like that, it shouldn't, but it's safety first with me. Having some propranolol or lisinopril on hand to use if trest or something makes your BP skyrocket, but it's just aprecaution and unlikely to happen.
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sns8778
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When it comes to recommending the best products for on cycle and PCT, it really depends on what the person is taking and also on how comprehensive that they want to be.
For on cycle support, there is the budget way which is using something like CEL Cycle Assist and then adding whatever else is needed or there is the way of using higher dosed more specialized options to target specific aspects of support.
Cycle Assist is an inclusive product that contains ingredients for liver, blood pressure, cholesterol, and prostate support. But one has to keep in mind that it is not going to be as strong as things that are specialized for particular results like Blood Pressure Support XT or Liver Assist XT for example. Like Cycle Assist has some things to help with blood pressure, but its nowhere near as potent as Blood Pressure Support XT.
Here's a list of things per subject or category that I can think of right off hand:
Cycle Assist (back in stock next week) - https://competitiveedgelabs.com/product/cycle-assist/
Blood Pressure:
- Blood Pressure Support XT - https://seriousnutritionsolutions.com/product/blood-pressure-support-xt-120-veg-caps/
- Cardiovascular Support XT - https://seriousnutritionsolutions.com/product/cardiovascular-support-xt/
- Inhibit-E - https://seriousnutritionsolutions.com/product/inhibit-e/
- Cloma-Plex - https://competitiveedgelabs.com/product/cloma-plex/
- Alpha Gel - https://www.dpsnutrition.net/i/33144/xpg-xtreme-gels-alpha-gel-100-ml.htm
- PCT Assist - new version due in in a couple weeks
- Kidney Assist XT - https://www.dpsnutrition.net/i/33144/xpg-xtreme-gels-alpha-gel-100-ml.htm
- Liver Assist XT - https://seriousnutritionsolutions.com/product/liver-assist-xt/
- TUDCA - https://seriousnutritionsolutions.com/product/liver-assist-xt/
- L-Ornithine L-Aspartate - https://seriousnutritionsolutions.com/product/l-ornithine-l-aspartate-120-veg-caps/
Natural Testosterone Boosters:
- M-Test - https://seriousnutritionsolutions.com/product/optimize-t-120-veg-caps/
- Optimize-T - https://seriousnutritionsolutions.com/product/optimize-t-120-veg-caps/
- Cloma-Plex - https://competitiveedgelabs.com/product/cloma-plex/
- Alpha Gel - https://www.dpsnutrition.net/i/33144/xpg-xtreme-gels-alpha-gel-100-ml.htm
- PCT Assist - new version due in in a couple weeks
Emmanuel06
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Thanks for all the info, im still very new to this....
At the moment I am taking Androtest from Fusion labs and starting tomorrow or Saturday going to add Winstrol from Hi-Tech Pharma. I know its not a hardcore stack but i want to start slow and easy and then see !
Going for a 6 -8 week cycle of Androtest and a 4 week cycle of Winstrol
Started taking Androtest on November 14
What kind of on cycle and PCT would you suggest ?
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Smont
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sns8778
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Honestly, its not a stack I would have ever done because I've never and would never use any ph that was a proprietary blend; if I didn't know exactly how much I was getting, I wouldn't take it.
I think the best starter option for people is Epiandrosterone at 600 mg. per day, like Stano-Plex, Epiandro300, or Epiandro Lean.
At the minimum for what you have listed, I would start Cycle Assist a week prior to the cycle, but it seems like you've already started. So I would add in Cycle Assist as soon as you can. We are out, a lot of places are out, but Flexit has it in stock.
I would continue Cycle Assist the whole cycle and 4 weeks after for my PCT.
For PCT, the minimum I would do would be:
- M-Test, Optimize-T, or Cloma-Plex - pick one of them
- Inhibit-E - 3 caps per day or only 2 caps per day if using Cloma-Plex
- Inhibit-P - for Prolactin
- Reduce XT - not necessary, but I'm a fan of cortisol control during PCT because it helps keep gains
teamguy312
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Good PCT for him, it will make a huge difference without a doubt. OP, @Smont knows his **** and the company he reps for is really legit, good place to get your PCT.
Damnit this is the supplement section again, I'm so bad at knowing where I'm allowed to talk about AAS, so my apologies if I'm in the wrong section again.
@Smont Are you guys carrying HCG yet or expecting it soon? I want to buy a vial before I start my cycle.
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teamguy312
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Good advice here, Epiandro had a tremendous effect on me. I believe I was taking 450mg transdermally every day. Also, good call on the PH's that don't really have a true, clear ingredient label with doses of each compound, etc.
Smont
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Sell the high tech supp to someone. Your wasting your cycle. Theres nothing worse then shutting down your natural test for sub par or zero results. You would need about a bottel of high tech PER WEEK to get anything out of it.
Taking androtest solo is also kinda a waste too.
Honestly, if you were my client id tell you to stop everything yesterday, go back to the drawing board and revisit the cycle idea in a few months. This cycle your attempting is probably counter productive. Your gonna shut down natural test for natty results and then you gotta pct and hope you get back to baseline
teamguy312
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+1 for the Epiandro. I dosed it at 450mg a day transdermally and loved the results (8 week cycle). I was also using transdermal 11 keto but it was obvious the epiandro was outshining it.
sns8778
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Epiandrosterone is great whether orally or topically.
The common beginner oral dose is 600 mg. and some people go to 900 mg.
The topical dose is generally 300 to 450 mg. With the Xtreme Performance Gels carrier, I would encourage people to start at 300 mg. and not assume they need 450 mg. though. XPG utilizes the Avant Labs carrier, which is often referred to as the gold standard for td carriers.
teamguy312
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I hate to say it but I agree with this totally. My problem with your cycle has always been the very weak potency of the compound you are expecting something from, when in reality you might not notice a difference or even suffer some muscle loss and fat gain without the proper PCT. Also, lack of a sufficient test base, androtest seems to do a good job but not near enough what you'd want to keep your levels up, (probably will have to take a lot of androtest and it still wouldn't be enough, not to mention by itself without something to add more test might be extremely underwhelming or like I said earlier, find transdermal trest or something.). Make the cycle worth it and use a compound that will make you happy about the results.
teamguy312
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Ah gotcha, I'm not sure which carrier mine was, but it was good quality, from iconic formulations, their ultra epi.
Do you notice any difference in results with oral compared to TD? Like how injectable SD and oral SD can give a different ''look''? Have you found anything remotely similar in oral vs TD epiandro?
teamguy312
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Ah gotcha, I'm not sure which carrier mine was, but it was good quality, from iconic formulations, their ultra epi.
Do you notice any difference in results with oral compared to TD? Like how injectable SD and oral SD can give a different ''look''? Have you found anything remotely similar in oral vs TD epiandro?
Smont
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Having high testosterone levels is not what's important for a test base. You can have zero test and a healthy amount of estrogen and that will suffice. All the things ppl call a "test base" dont do much of anything for test levels.
Trest=zero test and high estrogen, works great If you dont suffer from the other 200 posible sides.
Andro test and 4 andro, some ppl they raise test and others it lowers there test, but it keeps there estrogen up and thats why it works.
If you pair rad 140 with estrogen you will have zero test and it will still work like hrt/trt
Dbol = zero test and high estrogen yet it works great for many as a base if you keep the dose low.
Actual high test levels for bodybuilding only means something when your driving up your test for growth. Theres a lot more to that last part but im not going down the rabbit hole.
My only point is, that unless your taking test, the other test alternitives for a "base" dont really have much to do witj testosterone.
Smont
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I love mega dosed epiandro, 900+ oral or maybe 600td. It gets a bit expensive tho so i usually opt for masteron.
But epiandro is my absolute favorite of the still legal options.
Smont
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I know your not asking me but Id say same results but with a lower dose td. The only difference for me is i can dose the oral for pre workout, td it dont work pre. I mean its working but not that pre workout boom dose
sns8778
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Iconic Formulations is a good brand too.
For me, I choose oral whenever there's an option because I'm more consistent with my dosages.
I don't think that there is really anything different as far as results between oral and topical, just the dosage needs to be a little different.
teamguy312
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My bad, to be perfectly honest I already knew that but it slipped my mind. Your test will shoot up like a rocket with orals alone and no test base, but I know that's not exactly the point and something needs to be a base for gains in the background.
I was mentioning earlier how I welcome estrogen in my cycles as a beneficial mass builder, I don't reduce it unless I'm getting unbearable sides so I can see what you're saying. Let me be honest though, I think you and I love anadrol the most
I'm running oral mentabolan and TD trest ace as a base. From my very limited understanding, the trestolone has many of the same properties as test and the body has less of a response to something so foreign and some of the properties shared were the important ones to serve as HRT.
I figure my oral ment 4-5 times a day will hopefully fill in some gaps and maintain a steady blood level combined with the trest and all. I'm going to run 120mg trenavar a day split into 3 doses (probably wouldn't be able to fall asleep if I took a dose before bed). That's basically the only reason I care to have a sufficient test base (or something that acts as a base) because I want to run trenavar and have the best shot at keeping the most gains from it possible.
Cycle length will be 45 days.
I should also mention I will be pinning 4IU's of HGH and IGF-1, typically 100-200mcg immediately post workout/recovery.
Also, running cardarine. Haven't decided on 10 or 20mg ED.
I'd like to source some HCG but I'm having a hell of a time doing so.
sns8778
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Something to keep in mind with topical (td) is that the dosage needed somewhat depends on that carrier.
For example, I've never heard of anyone doing 600 mg. of XPG Epiandro Gel and I don't think anyone would need to dose that high on that one. I wouldn't ever suggest an average user to go above 300 mg. on it and even for you with all your experience, I would caution you to start off at 450 mg. to gauge it before assuming you would need 600 mg. All of the XPG products use the Avant Labs carriers, which were the original OG ph carriers from back in the good old days.
teamguy312
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I was asking anyone with experience man, I trust your opinion completely and appreciate the input. I would pick up a bottle of oral for pre workout if I was already planning this cycle to use mentabolan pre workout. I may consider picking up a couple bottles of epiandro though for this cycle, it's the only thing that made my muscle density/hardness as much as 50-100mg proviron.
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teamguy312
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It could be true, epiandro is a serious compund to be honest. I'd apply it in the recommended areas and my veins would be popping out before I finished the 5th pump of the bottle. Throughout my cycle as far as muscle building/leaning out, it gave me a rounded shape similar to primo but not quite, still looked great and was satisfied. Muscle hardness is what will really surprise first time users of Epiandro. I'm pretty sure I an 450mg-500mg every day for 8 weeks and I couldn't tell you I had a single side effect. Like I said, I also ran this with TD 11-keto which was nothing compared to the epiandro. Like @sns8778 said, epiandro is the ****. In my opinion, run it 8 weeks and have a proper PCT read to go. You'd be surprised about the results. Best ''natural'' US legal compound I know of, personally. Give it a try, you won't regret it.
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