Need help with my workout plan

[tumetsi]

Hey guys, I have been lifting consistently now for around 5 months. Before that I've done a lot of combat sports and some occasional lifting, but I'm really getting into it now. It would be awesome to hear what you people think of my current workout routine and give me some tips.

I am 183cm (6ft) tall and weight around 79kg(176lbs). My goal is to add alot of more muscle and getting stronger overall and I don't mind bulking or gaining mass while doing it since it's really hard for me to gain extra weight anyways. Main focus on legs at the moment.

my routine is:

MON: LEGS
BB heavy squats 5x4-6 (add 5kg when +6RM)
heavy leg press 5x 6-10
leg extensions 6-12
calves 5x20


TUES: BACK
Deadlift 5x4-6 (add 5kg when +6RM)
BB T-Bar row 4x 6-10
close grip pull-ups with extra weight 4x6-12 OR neutral grip bodyweight 5 x until fatigue
front pulldown 4x10
seated cable row 4x6-10
abs

WED: CHEST
Flat Dumbell press 5x4-8
Incline dumbell press 5x 6-10
1# Butterfly variation 4x 10
2# butterfly variation 4x 10
Cable iron cross 4x 10
calves 5x20

THURS: rest

FRI: ARMS
Bar bicep curls 3 x 6-10
DB bicep curls 3 x 6-10
Preacher curls 3 x 6-10
Rope tricep pushdowns 3 x 6-10
Triceps pushdown 3 x 6-10
Skull crushers 3 x 6-10
abs

SAT: LEGS/SHOULDERS
BB Front squats 5x8-12
DB lunges 4x 8-12
BB/DB overhead press 4x6-10
BB rear delt row 4x 6-10
deltoid raise 3x8-12
calves 5x20

SUN: rest

+abs&calves around 3 times a week each. For abs I'm doing 4 exercises 3x15 each. Not doing BB presses at the moment since my shoulder hurts like a b**** if I try to go heavy on presses. Dumbell presses feel fine though.

every few months I'm away for the weekend so I skip the FRI & SAT workouts but I try to do LEGS / BACK / CHEST every single week no matter what's my schedule..

Any tips/improvements/advice much appreciated!

 

[PaulBlack]

So you're gonna do DL's the day after heavy squats? ;-)
Why not just do a good written 5x5 routine?

 

[tumetsi]

I usually try to do DL's right after the leg day because on WED my legs are already killing me from Monday so I would have to wait until the end of the week to do pulls.

Thanks man I'm gonna check out the 5x5 routine now never heard of it before..is there only 3 day 5x5 routines out there or would I overtrain if I lift heavy and train more than 3 days a week?

 

[Doss]

I'm with Paul. Get on a solid 5x5 program and get strong. Then start eating right and you'll get big.

Just for future reference, and this is just my opinion, but on the leg press I wouldn't mess around with any less than 10 reps. <10 reps on the leg press has never done much for me. If you're trying to get bigger legs, I'd be doing at least reps of 12 or 15 on the press. Nothing wrong with sets of 20 either. Just something to consider.

 

[tumetsi]

Sounds good. I've been lifting for a few years on and off already. However this is the first time I've decided to focus on gaining muscle and leaving other sports aside. Would it still be preferable to do the 5x5 program? My bench 1RM is around 110kg / deadlift 5x5 110kg / Squat 5x5 90kg.

 

[PaulBlack]

I usually try to do DL's right after the leg day because on WED my legs are already killing me from Monday so I would have to wait until the end of the week to do pulls.

So your legs are not killing you by Tuesday afternoon!?
U are lucky kiddo. If I do heavy hard squats, my legs are usually pretty beat up by the next day and heavy pulling would be nil.
Personally, if you are serious about not knowing 5x5's routines or say layouts, there are many on the web.
I might also think you would prosper better by doing say squats on a Monday and then DL's on say Thurs. That way, you are training the legs 2 days per. The squats and assistance work will hit the hips and legs quite well, and the deads and assistance will hit hard the PC etc. Both are great whole body builders.
Perhaps another 2 days can be upper body, hitting chest, shoulders and upper back.
As a novice, you most likely have some room to gain and would not be using weights that you'd need so much recovery on.
In fact some 5x5 routines utilize the entire body (3-5-7 compound) exercises in a single W/O 2-3 times per week. This not only builds strength and mass, but overall fitness and GPP.

 

[OnionKnight]

paulblack is right.dont do deads the day after heavy squts or vice versa. u might not feel it, but it is impacting your effort on the deads. i would also move deads to thursday, especially since you have one totally useless day that should just be taken out (arms)

i would replace tuedy woth thursday, and turn fridy into a 3rd rest day. more isnt always better, especialy if youre trying to gain size as a natty trainer.

that, or just take everyones advice and turn to good ol fashion 5x5 or starting strength if you know how to clean. (this is the best option)

 

[tumetsi]

Thanks for all the advice guys. So I was thinking of giving 5x5 a try for about 6 months and see the results. Would this kind of program be good ?

5×5 Workout A

Squat 5×5
Bench Press 5×5
Barbell Rows 5×5
Overhead Press 5x5
Weighted Pull-ups 5x5

5×5 Workout B

Squat 5×5
Deadlift 1×5
Dips 5x5
T-Bar row 5x5

Week 1: A B A , Week 2: B A B etc..

 

[PaulBlack]

Thanks for all the advice guys. So I was thinking of giving 5x5 a try for about 6 months and see the results. Would this kind of program be good ?

5×5 Workout A

Squat 5×5
Bench Press 5×5
Barbell Rows 5×5
Overhead Press 5x5
Weighted Pull-ups 5x5

5×5 Workout B

Squat 5×5
Deadlift 1×5
Dips 5x5
T-Bar row 5x5

Week 1: A B A , Week 2: B A B etc..

2 cents...

I might set up "B" doing the DL for 1-2x5 (after warm up sets) first, and if you have access to a leg press!? do those afterwards. Since you will squat again Friday say.
That way you train the large back upper/lower and lumbar area first, on the B day.
Also, if it is a 5x5, you do not have to do every single exercise with that specific protocol, but for squats, deads and BP's, it seems to work well. It may also depend on what you respond better too, as some guys have differing responses to rep work in certain areas.
Rows and maybe OHP's and any arm work you might stick in, you can go higher on the reps, say x8's or so, for 3-4 sets.
Any ab or forearm or gripish work, might see as high as x20's for a couple sets.

When you hit Fridays A, you may want to do BP's first say. And even though energy might be a bit lower for squats after say BP's, do what you can. That way too, you are starting a few different W/O's and different exercises, fresh.

Set small goals to reach monthly and keep you motivated, like new poundage gains say. Don't weight yourself everyday. If you do it, once or twice a week might be plenty.
Eat enough and good whole foods.

 

[tumetsi]

2 cents...

I might set up "B" doing the DL for 1-2x5 (after warm up sets) first, and if you have access to a leg press!? do those afterwards. Since you will squat again Friday say.
That way you train the large back upper/lower and lumbar area first, on the B day.
Also, if it is a 5x5, you do not have to do every single exercise with that specific protocol, but for squats, deads and BP's, it seems to work well. It may also depend on what you respond better too, as some guys have differing responses to rep work in certain areas.
Rows and maybe OHP's and any arm work you might stick in, you can go higher on the reps, say x8's or so, for 3-4 sets.
Any ab or forearm or gripish work, might see as high as x20's for a couple sets.

When you hit Fridays A, you may want to do BP's first say. And even though energy might be a bit lower for squats after say BP's, do what you can. That way too, you are starting a few different W/O's and different exercises, fresh.

Set small goals to reach monthly and keep you motivated, like new poundage gains say. Don't weight yourself everyday. If you do it, once or twice a week might be plenty.
Eat enough and good whole foods.

Thanks bro, I'm gonna do this for sure. Just to make it clear, start workout B with 1-2x5 DL and replace squats with leg press? should I do leg press with 5x5 or 3-4x8 ?

Other than that thanks alot for the tips guys I will try to eat like an animal and will post back around December with some results!

 

[Sean1332]

Thanks bro, I'm gonna do this for sure. Just to make it clear, start workout B with 1-2x5 DL and replace squats with leg press? should I do leg press with 5x5 or 3-4x8 ?

Other than that thanks alot for the tips guys I will try to eat like an animal and will post back around December with some results!

Main movements will be 5x5. Accessory work should vary. Some days I'll do 3x8, others I'll do 5x15 or whatever. Even the leg press could be rotated out with other movements like front squats.

 

[PaulBlack]

Yeah, what ^ Sean said.
The reason you can hit the leg press with higher reps (ie; 8-15 even), is, it can be a good leg mass builder and you do not have to strain as hard to eck out the low reps.
Some guys push the leg press too hard with low reps and twist the low back just to get the ego big weights on the machine.
The leg press can be a pretty good assistance or adjunct to the DL and depending on your build!? (What is your height, torso length etc?) and not to get to technical early on, since build can determine better, whether or not you are more of a puller or pusher and what your natural strengths may be and how you can tune exercises to aid those natural abilities.
Shorter stouter guys are usually better pushers (ie: presses and squats) and longer limbed taller guys (like myself) can be better at deads and or rowing motions pulling moves. Of course you can be middle of the road in there too.

You don't really need as many sets of top work deads. Maybe 2-3 warm up sets, slowly getting heavier, then 1 or 2 top/work sets is all you need. Try and add #5-#10 maybe a week and see how that goes.
That way too, you do not get so burned out, squatting every single W/O.
A few things too...

Squat 5×5
Bench Press 5×5
Barbell Rows 5×5
Overhead Press 5x5
Weighted Pull-ups 5x5

You have pull ups "and" BB rows, in the same W/O, which is a little redundant, I might just do 1 rowing motion per W/O ie:...

A Monday
Squats
BP's
Rows
OHP's
some abs core work perhaps!?

B Wednesday
DL's
Leg Presses
OHP's
Dips
T bar rows
Curls perhaps !?

C (modified A) Friday
BP's
Squats
Chins or Pull Dwns
Tris & Bis or abs core perhaps !?

Start B then on Monday...
So the next week you will get 2 DL sessions but only add weight (maybe #5) once per week. #1-#2 on the smaller stuff, presses arm work etc.

If you miss a W/O, don't beat yourself up about it. Just make it up the next gym date. You will slowly learn what to, how your body responds to certain stimulation and modify things to where you want your goals to go.
Above all have fun, do not make it drudging work.

 

[rockme]

I'm with Paul. Get on a solid 5x5 program and get strong. Then start eating right and you'll get big.

Just for future reference, and this is just my opinion, but on the leg press I wouldn't mess around with any less than 10 reps. <10 reps on the leg press has never done much for me. If you're trying to get bigger legs, I'd be doing at least reps of 12 or 15 on the press. Nothing wrong with sets of 20 either. Just something to consider.

Agreed. I hardly ever do a leg press, but if I do, I keep the rep range 15-20 reps nice n slow. That exercise is not meant to pile on the weight, as it ends up destroying your ROM otherwise. Go heavy on squats

 

[tumetsi]

Hey guys, thought to report back after a few months into the program. Have made really good gains on the big lifts and around 3-4kg of bodyweight as well. I can post the specific numbers and maybe a before and after pic later!

Anyways just wanted to add a question: I still feel like my legs are lagging behind though because I've always had skinny legs. Do you think it's better to do a single day with ****loads of legwork i.e. squatting for an hour or dividing it into a couple of sessions a week. e.g. doing 3-5 sets of heavy squats at the beginning of every/every other session?

What's the best method for ultimate leg development including calves?

For calves I'm currently running around 30mins at the beginning or end of the workout and doing around 5x20 calf raises on every workout. What do you guys think?

Also I had to cut off on BB squats and DL for a week or two because my lower back started to get too much stress. I might have been doing too much because I was doing heavy squats or DL+front squats every session. But going to get back on track with them on Monday..

Thanks in advance for the answers!

 

[PaulBlack]

Okay, wait, maybe I do not follow you. You said...

I still feel like my legs are lagging behind though because I've always had skinny legs. Do you think it's better to do a single day with ****loads of legwork i.e. squatting for an hour or dividing it into a couple of sessions a week. e.g. doing 3-5 sets of heavy squats at the beginning of every/every other session?

This, then...

Also I had to cut off on BB squats and DL for a week or two because my lower back started to get too much stress. I might have been doing too much because I was doing heavy squats or DL+front squats every session. But going to get back on track with them on Monday..

Not sure I follow you!? You're asking if you want to squat and do more leg work thru the week, but are having lower back tightness?
How is your form on the squats and deads?
Vids?

Legs, hips, back etc. consist of the largest mass in the body, it is not gonna build up in just 2 months and especially if you are thinner. It takes time and persistence and there are no real shortcuts. You have to eat enough too, along the way. Food= more size too.

To get some perspective and ratios, what is you BW and some of your new W/O poundages for the big exercises?

 

[tumetsi]

Thanks Paul,

Yeah, I was wondering if it would be better to do all the leg work on the same day or divide it as I've been doing on the current workout plan..My form SHOULD be fine I think it's just so much stress to my lower back since I'm squatting/DLing on every workout.. and I mean I know the difference between good pain and bad pain and this was not muslce pain it was stinging lower back pain feeling like someone was pushing a large needle into my spine.

But I cut off the dl/squat for a week or two and gonna start hitting it again tomorrow so should be fine. I have done a few weeks or 3x10 to change it aup a bit as well. Is this ok or should I just stick with 5x5 on the big 3 lifts all the time? I can try to take a video as well and will post results and current bodyweight here in a few weeks when my exams are done!

 

[PaulBlack]

Thanks Paul,

Yeah, I was wondering if it would be better to do all the leg work on the same day or divide it as I've been doing on the current workout plan.

Well first off if there is pain, then yes, take a step back and or regroup to see if it subsides.
I would not think you have to squat and or dead every W/O. You could squat heavy(ier) on one day, but then leg press or deadlift that same week but lighter, then say squat lighter the next week and do the deads heavier perhaps like a wave while slowly building the weights.
Trying to get all the leg work in on one W/O in the week, to me is maybe less progressive, than say doing a bit more frequency, but with a bit less intensity. ie: build up the weights slowly over time allowing your body to adapt to the stimulus and also grow stronger and larger without crippling yourself in one day then have to wait an entire week to do it again.

What does your exact set up look like at present?
(with sets, reps, frequencies, weights in various exercises?)

I have done a few weeks or 3x10 to change it aup a bit as well. Is this ok or should I just stick with 5x5 on the big 3 lifts all the time? I can try to take a video as well and will post results and current bodyweight here in a few weeks when my exams are done!

That is not necessarily a problem really. But you can vary the intensity of the 5's too, thru a long cycle say.
If you goal is more size and shape than just strength, then why not!?
The 5x5's are guidelines that are easy to stick to thru a cycle of say 6-8 weeks perhaps and help to build strength and mass.
As you go, you will find there are quite a few ways to set up 5x5 set/rep layouts also.

Just a few samples...
#bar only x10
#135x5 (like warm ups)
#185x5 (starting into heavy set)
#225x5 (say this is a top set)
#185 x5x2 sets (back down sets) =25 total reps

Sample 2...
Bar only x10
#135x5
#185x5
#225x5x3 work sets across

Sample 3...
#bar only x10
#135x5
#185x5
#225x5x2
#185x5 (cool down)

Sample 4
#bar only x10
#135x5
#175x5
#220x5
#230x5
#195x5

Lots of ways to progress (and they can get a bit advanced) as the weeks/months go on, slowly raising the weights and thus intensity on say the work sets keeping the bar only and say #135 as warmups

 

[tumetsi]

Yeah this helped alot thanks Paul.

I am currently doing this: A B A / B A B etc.

5×5 Workout A
Squat 5×5
Bench Press 5×5
Overhead Press 4x8 (barbell/dumbbell)
Pullups 4x max reps (bodyweight/weighted)

5×5 Workout B
Deadlift 1×5 (2-4 sets of warmup)
Dips / Close grip bench press 4x8
3x8 front squats / one legged squats (lunges)
T-Bar row / Barbell row 4x8

3 days a week.. Current squat: 5x5 90kg bench 3x5 90kg 2x5 85-80kg DL: 1x5 140kg

Haven't really tried 1RM yet and these were the current results about 3 weeks ago before I cut down on weight for a few weeks and started doing 3x10...tomorrow I will start again from 5x5 workout A and will probably try out 1RM on the big three in 2 weeks after my body has adapted back to the heavier lifts.

Current BW is 84kg and I am 183cm (6ft). I have gained arond 4kg since my first post this summer. I will definitely start doing bench/squats with those variations..until now I have just tried to hammer them all with the same weight e.g. 5x90kg until I can do all sets and then increase by 5kg. So after warmup I could go for something like 5x 85kg 5x90kg 5x95kg 5x85kg 5x85kg?

 

[PaulBlack]

Haven't really tried 1RM yet and these were the current results about 3 weeks ago before I cut down on weight for a few weeks and started doing 3x10...tomorrow I will start again from 5x5 workout A and will probably try out 1RM on the big three in 2 weeks after my body has adapted back to the heavier lifts.

Okay, well you don't necessarily need to do a 1RM. Just having manageable progression thru out the weeks and months will build your mass and strength without having to yet gauge singles.
You could do leg presses on a 3rd day also, to take a break from the squatting 2x per week, as it gets heavier thru the cycle.
You will most likely learn different tricks and gauge your intensities as you move thru the monthsyears of training. It is just probably best to keep progression in the crosshairs depending on your goals ie: (adding weight when you can, even ever so slightly) and is probably one of the most important things to gaining mass, power and strength.

until now I have just tried to hammer them all with the same weight e.g. 5x90kg until I can do all sets and then increase by 5kg. So after warmup I could go for something like 5x 85kg 5x90kg 5x95kg 5x85kg 5x85kg?

Well, the truth is that most guys who start have a higher BPress, because they concentrate on that move more, since for one, it is just a guy thing. However, there is much more propensity for growth and using more weight in the leg and big pulling back exercises like the squat, deadlift, leg press and maybe some rowing. etc. Depending on how much focus you put in on those, the weights will most likely be higher than your eventual BP, since you are using more of the body's overall muscle and mass to move it.
ie; averages for most guys are 250BP 350Sqt 450DL- 300BP 400Sqt 500DL. Your build may vary those lifts some, (some guys are better squatters than deadlifters) but they are some average raw and natty numbers/guidelines.