MK-677 VS GHRP

[Canes325]

And all studies are human studies?

The first study cited was on obese men. The next few citations were from published papers & books. By all means, you are an educated member here. One who is knowledgable on the matter. Rather than dismiss the post and Attack the sources of the information, I and I think "we" would rather hear your opinion on the matter as to why the information provided may be false or misleading.

 

[Danes]

The first study cited was on obese men. The next few citations were from published papers & books. By all means, you are an educated member here. One who is knowledgable on the matter. Rather than dismiss the post and Attack the sources of the information, I and I think "we" would rather hear your opinion on the matter as to why the information provided may be false or misleading.

Honestly, many times people overcomplicate studies.
Oral GHRP2 has been many decades in japan and it is also an oral Ghrelin minetic/GH secretagogue just like Mk677,anamorelin etc.
Dont you think those scientists know better than lets say me and other forum members who just read studies and makes own conclutions ?

The guy who wrote that post is a guy full of knowledge..no doubt about that. But i am affraid he is overcomplicating things

 

[Canes325]

Honestly, many times people overcomplicate studies.
Oral GHRP2 has been many decades in japan and it is also an oral Ghrelin minetic/GH secretagogue just like Mk677,anamorelin etc.
Dont you think those scientists know better than lets say me and other forum members who just read studies and makes own conclutions ?

The guy who wrote that post is a guy full of knowledge..no doubt about that. But i am affraid he is overcomplicating things

Ofcourse I would believe a scientific researcher who studies these mimetics, I just don't have easy access to them like I do you and dat lol. I get it, sometimes people can over complicate things and anything we do when it comes to augmenting hormones isn't without risks. Personally, I side with the sometimes less effective but also "safer" route. Hence why I do cjc-1295 no DAC instead of with DAC. Or why I take Ipamorelin instead of GHRP-2 or hexarelin. My personal opinion is if we can amplify but mimic the bodies natural release of GH you can potentially mitigate some of the side effects. Chronic GH release or "GH Bleed" Is not something I want for the aforementioned reasons.

 

[Danes]

Ofcourse I would believe a scientific researcher who studies these mimetics, I just don't have easy access to them like I do you and dat lol. I get it, sometimes people can over complicate things and anything we do when it comes to augmenting hormones isn't without risks. Personally, I side with the sometimes less effective but also "safer" route. Hence why I do cjc-1295 no DAC instead of with DAC. Or why I take Ipamorelin instead of GHRP-2 or hexarelin. My personal opinion is if we can amplify but mimic the bodies natural release of GH you can potentially mitigate some of the side effects. Chronic GH release or "GH Bleed" Is not something I want for the aforementioned reasons.

I totaly understand
But i cant see any studies showing GH bleed or chronic GH release . Maybe that would occur if dosing MK677 very high but 25mg is pretty "safe"

 

[NoAddedHmones]

I totaly understand
But i cant see any studies showing GH bleed or chronic GH release . Maybe that would occur if dosing MK677 very high but 25mg is pretty "safe"

You would probably think that a number of the theoretical issues he raised would have been discussed in the 20 years that this compound has been studied in humans.

 

[Danes]

You would probably think that that a number of the issues he raised would have been discussed in the 20 years that this compound has been studied in humans.

True
I am not saying we know 100% about MK677, but we dont know 100% about anything.

 

[Danes]

I forgot to say Mk-677 is pulsed. It increases the response without altering your natural pulses. So it's not chronic. The peptides mentioned in the first part however could be problematic if dosed too frequently.

 

[Danes]

From the post :

"How do we lose GHSR1a (Ghrelin receptor's) in the brain?

It appears that transient stimulation such as what one would get with GHRPs (GHRP-2, GHRP-6, Ipamorelin, Hexarelin) leads to a rapid desensitization and internalization of the receptors in the brain and this is a good thing. On the other hand administration of long acting Ghrelin-memetic (ibutamoren mesylate (MK-0677) likely leads to a habitual loss receptor status. This is a very bad thing."

O really ?
We are not rats !
The guy posted study reference and here is the study:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3988273/
From the study:
"Using pharmacological agonism of GHSR-1a in non-stressed animals. Stress-induced changes in acylated ghrelin were observed at the nadir of the diurnal ghrelin cycle, suggesting that stress-related increases in ghrelin persist throughout the day. Because the half-life of acylated ghrelin is short [~30m (42)], we used MK-0677 (also known as ibutamoren mesylate), a highly selective GHSR-1a agonist with a half-life of at least 5–6h (43)"

And

"We systemically administered MK-0677 (MK: 5d) or saline (VEH: 5d) once a day for five consecutive days in non-stressed rats to determine whether repeated ghrelin receptor agonism in the absence of stress is sufficient to increase fear learning and whether HPA hormones may play a role in this effect."

Rats....

 

[criticalbench]

Scott on the PED Podcast just read off his labs after taking 25mg MK-677 Caps before bed each night (didn't say what brand):

Serum GH 10
IGF 310

He's in his 40's. He said both those numbers are way above where he is normally. Looking at the lab ranges they are both at the upper end, but nothing crazy.

Those are good numbers for mk for sure

 

[sanmarino]

Subbed. I would like to give my opinion to this topic but don't have that much time in the next few days.
There are some interesting points we could discuss together.

 

[datsthat]

Subbed. I would like to give my opinion to this topic but don't have that much time in the next few days.
There are some interesting points we could discuss together.

I am all ears

 

[Danes]

I am all ears

Email sent to those who ran the study

 

[UncleSarm]

Email sent to those who ran the study

Anxiously waiting for reply!

 

[Canes325]

Liking where this is going

 

[NoAddedHmones]

From the post :

"How do we lose GHSR1a (Ghrelin receptor's) in the brain?

It appears that transient stimulation such as what one would get with GHRPs (GHRP-2, GHRP-6, Ipamorelin, Hexarelin) leads to a rapid desensitization and internalization of the receptors in the brain and this is a good thing. On the other hand administration of long acting Ghrelin-memetic (ibutamoren mesylate (MK-0677) likely leads to a habitual loss receptor status. This is a very bad thing."

O really ?
We are not rats !
The guy posted study reference and here is the study:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3988273/
From the study:
"Using pharmacological agonism of GHSR-1a in non-stressed animals. Stress-induced changes in acylated ghrelin were observed at the nadir of the diurnal ghrelin cycle, suggesting that stress-related increases in ghrelin persist throughout the day. Because the half-life of acylated ghrelin is short [~30m (42)], we used MK-0677 (also known as ibutamoren mesylate), a highly selective GHSR-1a agonist with a half-life of at least 5–6h (43)"

And

"We systemically administered MK-0677 (MK: 5d) or saline (VEH: 5d) once a day for five consecutive days in non-stressed rats to determine whether repeated ghrelin receptor agonism in the absence of stress is sufficient to increase fear learning and whether HPA hormones may play a role in this effect."

Rats....

If i calculated correctly, the dosage used in this study (systemic) for a human was 0.023mg/kg. So 80kg person would be 1.84mg a day.

 

[BamBam0319]

If i calculated correctly, the dosage used in this study (systemic) for a human was 0.023mg/kg. So 80kg person would be 1.84mg a day.

...damn.

 

[The_Old_Guy]

If i calculated correctly, the dosage used in this study (systemic) for a human was 0.023mg/kg. So 80kg person would be 1.84mg a day.

KM Factor for Rats is 5.9, but all I saw was liquid measurements in that link. See:

Drug preparation

For systemic drug delivery, rats were injected with 1ml/kg (i.p.) of the appropriate solution. All drugs were solubilized in 0.9% saline (vehicle) such that injection volumes remained constant for each experiment. MK-0677 (also known as ibutamoren mesylate; Merck; Whitehouse, NJ, or Axon Medchem, Groningen, Netherlands) is a highly specific GHSR1a agonist that readily crosses the blood-brain barrier and has a half-life of over six hours (30, 31). A concentration of 0.5 mg/ml, diluted in vehicle, was selected because it is well-tolerated and results in significant and prolonged increases in growth hormone release (31).

0.5mg/Ml and 1Ml/Kg. Don't know how that translates, but if it's 0.5mg/Kg??? then 0.5mg x 5.9 / 37 = 0.08mg/Kg HED. 100 Kilo guy = 8mg. No idea, I could be totally a$$ed up on this one

 

[Danes]

This is the answer i got when showed that long post about MK677 to one who is really knowledgeable:

"As with anything in the human body, excessive agonism can lead to down-regulation of receptors. This happens with beta-2 receptors and albuterol/clenbuterol, this happens with androgen receptors and AAS, this is no different. However, that does not mean that it is inherently counterproductive or negative in effect. This individual has 'over-extrapolated' in my opinion, because we have multiple human studies regarding the safe usage of MK-677, with no prior issues regarding this specific concern. And we have human studies that went on for several years.One thing I find on AM, and indeed on other boards as well, people look for possibilities, but they don't look at real-world evidence or real-world application. You can overthink just about anything given enough time, Personally, I stand behind the multitude of MK-677 studies, and not a single online forum theory."


Like I said before, its easy to overthink,overcomplicate but we cant say "hey this compound did this and this to rats, so this is going to happen in humans too". It is not like that
Look at GW501516. In animals testing,It caused cancer to develop rapidly in several organs. Does it mean it will happen in humans ?
xylitol (sweetener) is a pure poison for dogs. And you can find it in chewing gums etc.

 

[NoAddedHmones]

KM Factor for Rats is 5.9, but all I saw was liquid measurements in that link. See:



0.5mg/Ml and 1Ml/Kg. Don't know how that translates, but if it's 0.5mg/Kg??? then 0.5mg x 5.9 / 37 = 0.08mg/Kg HED. 100 Kilo guy = 8mg. No idea, I could be totally a$$ed up on this one

Yup so the rats were given 1ml/kg i averaged out their weight to 275g. So they were given 0.274ml ed.

This equals 0.274 * 0.5mg = 0.138mg/5.9

= 0.023mg/kg human

* human weight

 

[Blergs]

pretty much same thing. i like mk677 because you can dose it orally. but i would rec it stacked with mod grf (1-29) and that you need to pin,, so maybe just use ghrp2 .. or use mk with even cjc and pin that 2x a week and take mk daily orally

 

[BamBam0319]

pretty much same thing. i like mk677 because you can dose it orally. but i would rec it stacked with mod grf (1-29) and that you need to pin,, so maybe just use ghrp2 .. or use mk with even cjc and pin that 2x a week and take mk daily orally

I'm currently stacking MK with CJC 1295 DAC, and I also use ipamorelin almost every day, whenever I can find time where I'm actually fasted.

 

[Vikingbro]

Subbed

 

[Joshlm69]

Hi Guys,

In the UK, I have the choice between Focused Nutrition Elite MK-677 & DNA Anabolics MK-677.

Would you recommend one over the other?

Would be stacking this with Follidrone 2.0

 

[Vikingbro]

Hi Guys,

In the UK, I have the choice between Focused Nutrition Elite MK-677 & DNA Anabolics MK-677.

Would you recommend one over the other?

Would be stacking this with Follidrone 2.0

I have tried FN MK-677 and they are gtg. Can't comment about DNA anabolics MK though as I've only used their GW. The GW was gtg btw too

 

[fueledpassion]

Not that anyone cares here, but Datbtrue does not support MK-677 as it has a host of negative side effects associated with it. His website has all the studies currently put together on it and the evidence is clear that it is inferior to GHRP's. I never looked deeply into it because I have legitimate sources of CJC, Mod-Grf, GHRP's and IGF and insulin, so I do not need a weaker, more dangerous, less effective version of these peptides.