Long Jack / Tongkat Ali

[MaDmaN]

Thank's Dr-D your info is much appreciated..

 

[AcuDoc]

well i got 2 bottles of that and a bottle of rhodiala rosea(sp?) (this is a great supp for post cycle..kills anxiety)

Personally, I love rhodiola. I use it in a formula with ginseng, sib. ginseng, tu si zi (dodder seed) and ashwaghanda. It gives a really nice boost. I found that I was getting more burping after taking it though ( removed all other herbs in specific order to find the culprit-rhodiola was def. the cause). Over all a very good herb for energy and mood.

 

[MaDmaN]

Personally, I love rhodiola. I use it in a formula with ginseng, sib. ginseng, tu si zi (dodder seed) and ashwaghanda. It gives a really nice boost. I found that I was getting more burping after taking it though ( removed all other herbs in specific order to find the culprit-rhodiola was def. the cause). Over all a very good herb for energy and mood.

Love Rhodiola :whip:

 

[GuyverX]

sumatra pasak tongkat ali extract

just got some today. 400 mg capusules.
going to see how it works.
stacking it with activate and primaforce cissus.
was thinking about doing a 4 way
divanil-tongkat-avena-fadogia split but that will have to wait for later.

my goal is just to keep lean and slowly build strength as to keep my flexibility for local full contact matches.

plus my libido has been low lately because of work-stress and lack of sleep(work like 10hrs day graveyard shift).
so hopefully it works there too.

I have never had a problem with gyno nor have i ever taken any PH/AAS so it shouldnt cause any problems.

 

[Hyde12]

I like the Fenugreek from NOW, but I can't take it for very long because I noticed I get puffy nipples after about two weeks of ED use. I think my favorite is Avena though. The stuff is awesome. I have used a couple of different LJ extracts. The best one that I have tried is the BioTest RedKat. I don't know the extract of the stuff, but it is amazing (and expensive). I got the LJ100 from Nutra, but I don't notice anything from it. It's weird because I thought LJ100 was supposed to be a greenish color.

 

[GuyverX]

just got some today. 400 mg capusules.
going to see how it works.
stacking it with activate and primaforce cissus.
was thinking about doing a 4 way
divanil-tongkat-avena-fadogia split but that will have to wait for later.

my goal is just to keep lean and slowly build strength as to keep my flexibility for local full contact matches.

plus my libido has been low lately because of work-stress and lack of sleep(work like 10hrs day graveyard shift).
so hopefully it works there too.

I have never had a problem with gyno nor have i ever taken any PH/anabolic steroids so it shouldnt cause any problems.

nix on the cissus for the moment.
its anabolic as well and I just want to see how the ACT and the Tong are together.

 

[GuyverX]

SS, I tried this stuff 2 years ago when it was newly available in the States. I did a 2 month post cycle therapy cycle w/ it. Started w/ 15g of the whole root the first month and the last month used 100mg TID of the LJ100 high potency 50$/g extract. I experienced no gonadal hypertrophy at all in spite of the intense back breakout, like julius kelp points out a few posts up, it was alot like hCG or DHEA breakout. But I honesty was very dissapointed. I was hoping this would be a kick-ass little PCT addition too, maybe to bridge with, but I honestly don't think it boosted LH at all. I think my DHEA levels went up, cause that's what it felt like, about the same effect as 200-300/d oral DHEA. I'll never do it again. To top it all off, I developed my worst case of gyno ever, 2 months of nolva did nothing. Started lactating and everythink, it sucked! I hope it works for you though. Have a dopaminergic on hand.

I have used the indonesian imported kind before at recommended dose. no gyno or related issues but a little acne and definitely better mood and libido.
I read somewhere that some supp companies spike their
tongkat with other compounds which might cause the
prolactin increase.

Its so expensive to process that they take shortcuts.
Its funny, with the exception of a a few glowing american supp companies which we all know of and speak about here...
the better natural supps I have tried have come from overseas.

 

[chainsaw]

I am finishing up my Indonesian Tongkat Ali cycle before I start my SD cycle. I used the Indonesian brand before at about 1600mg a day. I have a few documents of a guy who used TA at a much higher dose, I can email you the document. I have been using 3600mg each day for 2 weeks straight and I wish I would have done my bloodwork done. I feel this stuff is pretty potent and I have no gyno related issues. Nutraplanet is selling LongJax 20:1 which is patented and could possibly be the best of all the extracts. A while back Dsade said he had found a way to make the 20:1 extract stronger. I was waiting for him to do that and I was going to use it and get bloodwork done. I will see, but the next LongJax cycle I use I will get bloodwork done.

 

[Outside Backer]

i used to drop 1gram of long jack nightly when I planed on doing the nasty with teh wifey

the taste is terrible, but for awhile there i was loving it.
ive been off for a bit as ive been using other items

 

[scott72]

i used to drop 1gram of long jack nightly when I planed on doing the nasty with teh wifey

the taste is terrible, but for awhile there i was loving it.
ive been off for a bit as ive been using other items

How did that work for you? I just got some of the 20:1 in and after reading all this gyno talk I'm a little scared..

 

[GuyverX]

I have never really had any gyno issues but I've never really used any ph's except for maybe 6-oxo or san attitude as like a test phase for about a month.

I have a nice stack of nettle/lj100/60% mucuna going on /// its awesome for cutting...

as far as gyno... it might just be probable in those whose body chem makes them predisposed to it..

 

[GuyverX]

I am finishing up my Indonesian Tongkat Ali cycle before I start my superdrol cycle. I used the Indonesian brand before at about 1600mg a day. I have a few documents of a guy who used TA at a much higher dose, I can email you the document. I have been using 3600mg each day for 2 weeks straight and I wish I would have done my bloodwork done. I feel this stuff is pretty potent and I have no gyno related issues. Nutraplanet is selling LongJax 20:1 which is patented and could possibly be the best of all the extracts. A while back Dsade said he had found a way to make the 20:1 extract stronger. I was waiting for him to do that and I was going to use it and get bloodwork done. I will see, but the next LongJax cycle I use I will get bloodwork done.

am trying different brands to see which works for me the best...
whatever does will include in my master ... stay cut/build strength stack.

ran out of indonesian ...

 

[bj22]

Would stacking an anti-estrogen such as E-form be beneficial to avoiding any unwanted sides such as gyno?

 

[ohiostate2827]

has anyone tried the blue-up? i had good results with that. i did 8weeks and 4weeks off..right i just started another cycle.

 

[Hyde12]

Would stacking an anti-estrogen such as E-form be beneficial to avoiding any unwanted sides such as gyno?

I don't think so because it seems like the gyno from this is more from prolactin. Maybe stack with L-Dopa?

 

[blind12]

The dosage differences are strange, the Indonesian native medicine based dosages are like 1000 times higher than those used elsewhere. I hope I am not sledgehammering my receptors into insensitivity.

The native medicine uses dosages based off 50 g of root daily (1 g of 50:1 extract) and upwards, but some products use milligrams of crude root powder ??!! Nutraplanet recommends a dosage equivalent to about 1-2 grams of root.

I use the "Indonesian" dosage and see no side-effects. Just tolerance in about 2 weeks, so I need to cycle.

Maybe the non-Indonesian stuff does contain sth that produces the side-effects ? I did measure prolactin (and estradiol etc) once, it was normal... but I had been off tongkat ali for 2 days.

 

[RJN4444]

Hi guys - I just ordered some 50:1 pure extract direct from the manufacturer in Indonesia (not cheap!)

I dont take any PH, so not sure if I need to be overly concerned about gyno.

Any suggestions on how to best ensure that I dont have any of these problems?

Cycling seems to be pretty wise. Any others?

thanks

 

[GuyverX]

I don't think so because it seems like the gyno from this is more from prolactin. Maybe stack with L-Dopa?

l-dopa and tongkat is a great stack.
not only do you feel the libido and mood boost, it helps to give more definiton too.
bulkers ... keep your calories up because the combo will lean you out.
I went down a pants size in like two weeks not changing my diet. including the cheat day.

 

[GuyverX]

Would stacking an anti-estrogen such as E-form be beneficial to avoiding any unwanted sides such as gyno?

it should help quite well.
even a weak AI such as chrysin should stack well with the long jack.

 

[bj22]

Is bulk l-dopa available or is it only sold as igf-2?

 

[GuyverX]

Is bulk l-dopa available or is it only sold as igf-2?

dont know if they are sponsored here so PM me for details .... I know a site that carries it... its 95-99% bulk and cheap too. or you can get the 15% for even cheaper.

 

[blind12]

bulk L-dopa

dont know if they are sponsored here so PM me for details .... I know a site that carries it... its 95-99% bulk and cheap too. or you can get the 15% for even cheaper.

Nutraplanet is a sponsor if you have them in mind.

 

[GuyverX]

Nutraplanet is a sponsor if you have them in mind.

I havent seen it on their site.
If they have it by all means I recommend.
I get quite a bit of my supps from NP.

 

[blind12]

http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/1364/bulk-1-carboxy-2-amino-3-pyrobenzol-3-4-diol-.html

 

[GuyverX]

http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/1364/bulk-1-carboxy-2-amino-3-pyrobenzol-3-4-diol-.html

I always thought that was a specially extracted extract of mucuna and something else by USPLABS.... instead of just the plain extract...
then again in both the old and new powerfulls and standalone it was a pretty good ingredient. Its just that I have tested quite a few things lately and it slipped my mind.

Yes by all means get some of that. Its good stuff.
Probably better than the other that I have used.
Thank you very much for the reminder.
Have to remember that in my planned testing soon.

 

[Hyde12]

it should help quite well.
even a weak AI such as chrysin should stack well with the long jack.

I would go with Resveratrol for a natural AI (Post Cycle Support by Anabolic Innovations). Resveratrol+Tongkat+L-dopa=sick!

 

[GuyverX]

I would go with Resveratrol for a natural AI (Post Cycle Support by Anabolic Innovations). Resveratrol+Tongkat+L-dopa=sick!

good choice.

 

[bj22]

How much l-dopa is recommended per dose? I am thinking about adding this at bedtime during my Longjack cycle.

 

[blind12]

How much l-dopa is recommended per dose? I am thinking about adding this at bedtime during my Longjack cycle.

Nutraplanet suggests 800 mg (1/3 tsp). Not sure how pure their powder is. I understand the plant extract is more effective than synthetic levodopa, due to synergistic effect of other constituents btw. (I myself have only read a study that finds it more effective and less side-effect-prone in treating Parkinsonism, but I was just too lazy to search further).

 

[Hyde12]

http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/1364/bulk-1-carboxy-2-amino-3-pyrobenzol-3-4-diol-.html

I have this produt and I have been using it, but I find that the bulk Powerfull that NP used to have in stock was way better.

 

[E J]

I don't think so because it seems like the gyno from this is more from prolactin. Maybe stack with L-Dopa?

Could Parlodel (BROMOCRIPTINE) help with this?

 

[blind12]

Could Parlodel (BROMOCRIPTINE) help with this?

Absolutely, but L-dopa is cooler
And I have never had any side effects myself, from very high doses. Maybe these were caused by some unlisted additive.

 

[Hyde12]

Could Parlodel (BROMOCRIPTINE) help with this?

I always wanted to try Bromo or Cabergoline, but I fear it may cause a false positive for amphetamines.

 

[GuyverX]

The dosage differences are strange, the Indonesian native medicine based dosages are like 1000 times higher than those used elsewhere. I hope I am not sledgehammering my receptors into insensitivity.

The native medicine uses dosages based off 50 g of root daily (1 g of 50:1 extract) and upwards, but some products use milligrams of crude root powder ??!! Nutraplanet recommends a dosage equivalent to about 1-2 grams of root.

I use the "Indonesian" dosage and see no side-effects. Just tolerance in about 2 weeks, so I need to cycle.

Maybe the non-Indonesian stuff does contain sth that produces the side-effects ? I did measure prolactin (and estradiol etc) once, it was normal... but I had been off tongkat ali for 2 days.

actually you might not be.
many of the articles on the natural indonesian stuff say the native people take large amounts daily in tea and other ways.
I think the 'rush' dies down but the effects will continue.
in 2006 i used the old powerful for 6 months straight.... still got the great sleep and libido with lasting erections.

 

[GuyverX]

Nutraplanet suggests 800 mg (1/3 tsp). Not sure how pure their powder is. I understand the plant extract is more effective than synthetic levodopa, due to synergistic effect of other constituents btw. (I myself have only read a study that finds it more effective and less side-effect-prone in treating Parkinsonism, but I was just too lazy to search further).

I read some medical journal that says that the synthetic l-dopa should be taken with carbidopa to lessen the side effects. As you said something about missing elements in the synthetic version.

 

[blind12]

I read some medical journal that says that the synthetic l-dopa should be taken with carbidopa to lessen the side effects. As you said something about missing elements in the synthetic version.

From various articles and Nutraplanet reps' opinions I understand green tea powder or 3-4 cups of green tea is better than carbidopa, and vitamin C is also supposed to block unfavourable conversions, I use both, even with the herbal l-dopa.

 

[CanMan]

I always thought that was a specially extracted extract of mucuna and something else by USPLABS.... instead of just the plain extract...
then again in both the old and new powerfulls and standalone it was a pretty good ingredient. Its just that I have tested quite a few things lately and it slipped my mind.

Yes by all means get some of that. Its good stuff.
Probably better than the other that I have used.
Thank you very much for the reminder.
Have to remember that in my planned testing soon.

I get the puffies on LJ100, but it jacks my libido large, I just look like phuck , so no one'll do me ....

is this due to elevated prolactin or E ? I can't seem to find out how to combine it ...

 

[Neil5585]

Fenugreek is an old remedy to make mothers produce more milk.

Perhaps that has something to do with the gyno/lactation.

 

[1fit1]

To me, LJ100 feels just like the clomid I took years back. It definately is boosting testosterone, because I get all the effects, my nuts get WAY bigger, I'm aggressive, hornier, pumped, etc.:bb: I do notice a little nipple stimulation (perkiness lol) after awhile and I'd love to know whats causing this, so I can counteract it. Is it estrogen or prolactin related? Has anyone done any testing to verify this? Dr.D said he felt it was prolactin....any thoughts?

 

[CanMan]

I read some medical journal that says that the synthetic l-dopa should be taken with carbidopa to lessen the side effects. As you said something about missing elements in the synthetic version.

Guyver,

What's your LJ 100 / mucuna ratio like ??

I can only get the 15% l-dopa mucuna here in Canada, and am still trying to figure out how to avoid the puffies on LJ....

Tks !

 

[blind12]

I finally developed funny nipples too, on the Indonesian 50:1 extract, 1-2 g/day.

I should get my estradiol results in a few days but damn, I did not ask for prolactin. But if estrogen is normal then it's probably prolactin.

It can be tested though - if L-dopa resolves the nipples, it's prolactin. Can anyone try ? I normally dosed Mucuna L-dopa at 100 mg (that would make 1,5 g of 15% extract).

But since Tongkat Ali likely elevates CYP17 enzyme, it should increase estradiol levels, both directly via estrone and via testosterone+aromatase. So I assume it should be stacked with aromatase inhibitors (and 2 g of 50% EGCG green tea powder does not avoid "perky nipples syndrome" )

I am not sure how prolactin might be triggered, I believe it is a stress hormone and should not be triggered my Tongkat Ali in any manner.


Here's some useful information:
http://www.nutrilearn.com/hp/lj100.html

 

[CanMan]

I finally developed funny nipples too, on the Indonesian 50:1 extract, 1-2 g/day.

I should get my estradiol results in a few days but damn, I did not ask for prolactin. But if estrogen is normal then it's probably prolactin.

It can be tested though - if L-dopa resolves the nipples, it's prolactin. Can anyone try ? I normally dosed Mucuna L-dopa at 100 mg (that would make 1,5 g of 15% extract).

But since Tongkat Ali likely elevates CYP17 enzyme, it should increase estradiol levels, both directly via estrone and via testosterone+aromatase. So I assume it should be stacked with aromatase inhibitors (and 2 g of 50% EGCG green tea powder does not avoid "perky nipples syndrome" )

I am not sure how prolactin might be triggered, I believe it is a stress hormone and should not be triggered my Tongkat Ali in any manner.


Here's some useful information:
http://www.nutrilearn.com/hp/lj100.html

Thanks man, I'll give that a read over...

I think you're right, that it is estradiol.... prolactin, to my knowledge anyway, is what the body produces as a poor subsitutute for lowered free T, to compensate, so to speak, for the lowered levels....

I find that high doses of mucuna, for me, actually cause itchy nips, although the HGH effects help cut me up ( ie; no bloating - isn't that a ****storm: ripped but with itchy nips !? ). So, I usually cut mucuna w/ chrysin , I3C etc.....

I wish my kidneys could still handle my old stand by yohimbe.... for years that with Smilax and some Trib / Muira Puama was all I needed - shredded w/ a good libido all the time.....