Liquid Masterdrol - Anyone interested in us bringing it back?

[flightposite]

Sweet x2

 

[heavylifter33]

Bosses are out in Vegas doing business, but i hear from the sub-boss the mmv3 andro dose is roughly 100mg. That's not set in stone though, i need to hear from the man himself.

 

[JudoJosh]

Bosses are out in Vegas doing business, but i hear from the sub-boss the mmv3 andro dose is roughly 100mg. That's not set in stone though, i need to hear from the man himself.

Doubt that as the label on the bottle of MMV3 says:

Strength Complex - 100mg:
HydroxyPropylBetaCyclodextrin
3-Alpha-Hydroxyetioallocholan-17-one

So it looks like there is 100mg between the two of those combined so I doubt there is 100mg of androsterone alone, but thanks for asking and getting back to me.

 

[LG Sciences]

We will do 25mg epiandrosterone. That's the max that the mucosa can take at one time it would seem.

 

[prld2gr8ns]

Interesting. Wonder how this would stack up with a plan high dosed oral.

 

[JudoJosh]

Why not just cap it?

 

[oufinny]

We will do 25mg epiandrosterone. That's the max that the mucosa can take at one time it would seem.

How is that going to be a higher dose? Even at 90% absorption, you are talking 22 mgs or so. I am just looking at this from the perspective of something like PP AndroHard where a full dose is 1200 mgs at a very high bio-availability. Seems you would have to take this a lot to get the same if it is even possible.

 

[prld2gr8ns]

How is that going to be a higher dose? Even at 90% absorption, you are talking 22 mgs or so. I am just looking at this from the perspective of something like PP AndroHard where a full dose is 1200 mgs at a very high bio-availability. Seems you would have to take this a lot to get the same if it is even possible.

What I was thinking

 

[JudoJosh]

200mg caps would be pimptastic!

 

[MAxximal]

200mg caps would be pimptastic!

and the bottle of 240 caps :firedevil:

 

[PrepNwa23]

How is that going to be a higher dose? Even at 90% absorption, you are talking 22 mgs or so. I am just looking at this from the perspective of something like PP AndroHard where a full dose is 1200 mgs at a very high bio-availability. Seems you would have to take this a lot to get the same if it is even possible.

My thoughts also, i've wondered this with a few products that try to compete with how much PP's Andro series puts in their product line.

 

[prld2gr8ns]

200mg caps would be pimptastic!

I would say 300 at 90.

 

[oufinny]

We will do 25mg epiandrosterone. That's the max that the mucosa can take at one time it would seem.

Typical LG... you just go for the cheap and easy route instead of making something novel or dosing it high enough to make it attractive. There are so many more Andro products out there now that will blow that doseage out of the water... very disappointed. Everyone said MMV2 was the best, why wouldn't you just re-release that? Companies have brought back old products that customers asked for the same as they were and the fact you don't do that just boggles the mind.

 

[prld2gr8ns]

Typical LG... you just go for the cheap and easy route instead of making something novel or dosing it high enough to make it attractive. There are so many more Andro products out there now that will blow that doseage out of the water... very disappointed. Everyone said MMV2 was the best, why wouldn't you just re-release that? Companies have brought back old products that customers asked for the same as they were and the fact you don't do that just boggles the mind.

Yes, especially if we are talking about the realms of competitor products. There are products out there that offer dosages of upwards of 1200mg/day AND that tout a 80-90% bioavailibility rate. Not sure if a sublingual product at 25mg will measure up at all really.....

 

[JudoJosh]

Who makes a androsterone product besides primordial? D-Plex and stanodrol are both discontinued. I cant think if anyone else who makes one

 

[oufinny]

Who makes a androsterone product besides primordial? D-Plex and stanodrol are both discontinued. I cant think if anyone else who makes one

AMS, Finaflex, Iron Mag Labs, shall I continue?

 

[JudoJosh]

AMS, Finaflex, Iron Mag Labs, shall I continue?

This thread is about bringing back MMv2 right? So by androsterone we are talking about the isomer 3-beta-hydroxyetioallocholan-17-one correct? I know it gets confusing using the term androsterone with all these companies using the term 1-androsterone so I wont use it anymore.

Do any of the companies you listed make a 3-beta-hydroxyetioallocholan-17-one product? Or even a 3 alpha isomer of it? Their androsterone products or 1-andro as they call it are 1-Dehydroepiandrosterone or 1-Androstene-3b-ol, 17-one (AKA 1-DHEA). The 3 beta (MMv2/stanodrol/androhard) and 3 alpha (MMv3) isomers of androsterone convert to DHT. 1-Androstene-3b-ol, 17-one is said to convert to 1-test.

So 1-androsterone does not equal androsterone. At least this is my understanding of it since they convert differently, 3-beta-hydroxyetioallocholan-17-one converts more to DHT and 1- Androstene-3b-ol, 17-one should convert to 1-testosterone.

Again this is my understanding of it and I could be wrong but as far as I know there are no other companies that are currently making any if those isimers besides primordials androhard.

 

[oufinny]

This thread is about bringing back MMv2 right? So by androsterone we are talking about the isomer 3-beta-hydroxyetioallocholan-17-one correct? I know it gets confusing using the term androsterone with all these companies using the term 1-androsterone so I wont use it anymore.

Do any of the companies you listed make a 3-beta-hydroxyetioallocholan-17-one product? Or even a 3 alpha isomer of it? Their androsterone products or 1-andro as they call it are 1-Dehydroepiandrosterone or 1-Androstene-3b-ol, 17-one (AKA 1-DHEA). The 3 beta (MMv2/stanodrol/androhard) and 3 alpha (MMv3) isomers of androsterone convert to DHT. 1-Androstene-3b-ol, 17-one is said to convert to 1-test.

So 1-androsterone does not equal androsterone. At least this is my understanding of it since they convert differently, 3-beta-hydroxyetioallocholan-17-one converts more to DHT and 1- Androstene-3b-ol, 17-one should convert to 1-testosterone.

Again this is my understanding of it and I could be wrong but as far as I know there are no other companies that are currently making any if those isimers besides primordials androhard.

The AMS product is very similar to PP, it may be a different isomer though. I know that PP went back to both the alpha and beta isomer because both have certain benefits. I want it to be great, I heard it was, times have changed though with the androseries now and some of the other options from AMS and a select few others. The kicker is people got wise after PP let everyone know how much you are really getting from the active which makes it hard for a company to just put out the same ol same ol and be taken seriously.

 

[PrepNwa23]

If we had something along the lines of Stanodrol and MMv2 I'd be more than happy its one of my favorite products

 

[JudoJosh]

The AMS product is very similar to PP, it may be a different isomer though. I know that PP went back to both the alpha and beta isomer because both have certain benefits. I want it to be great, I heard it was, times have changed though with the androseries now and some of the other options from AMS and a select few others. The kicker is people got wise after PP let everyone know how much you are really getting from the active which makes it hard for a company to just put out the same ol same ol and be taken seriously.

Huh?

Your saying AMS 1-andro is similar to PPs androhard?

If we had something along the lines of Stanodrol and MMv2 I'd be more than happy its one of my favorite products

YES!

But I would prefer a oral capsule product over sublingual liquid.. Maybe its just me

 

[PrepNwa23]

Huh?

Your saying AMS 1-andro is similar to PPs androhard?

I think thats 1-Alpha by AMS its 3-beta-hydroxy-androstan-17-one

 

[JudoJosh]

I think thats 1-Alpha by AMS its 3-beta-hydroxy-androstan-17-one

Ohhh I see now.

I didnt know 1-alpha existed!

How the hell did I miss this? LOL..

When did AMS release this? I only knew about decavol, 1ad and 4ad from AMS. Is this 1-alpha a new product from them?

 

[heavylifter33]

I don't have much of a dog in this fight as chem stuff is a bit out of my realm of knowledge. But 2 things:

First, PP is producing information to support their claim. It's like a supplement company sponsoring a clinical trial... how much can we actually trust. I'm not saying that PP is lying, i am just offering that up for thought. The same can be said with anything we (LG) say regarding our improved bioavailability.

Second, PP's series run $100+, while we offer products for 30 dollars roughly.

Food for thought.

 

[PrepNwa23]

Ohhh I see now.

I didnt know 1-alpha existed!

How the hell did I miss this? LOL..

When did AMS release this? I only knew about decavol, 1ad and 4ad from AMS. Is this 1-alpha a new product from them?

http://www.advancedmusclescience.com/products/pro-anabolic-supplements/1-alpha-capsules/#nogo

 

[JudoJosh]

I don't have much of a dog in this fight as chem stuff is a bit out of my realm of knowledge.

what fight?

And you absolutely would "have a dog in it" (if there was one) as this is about LGs product and your a LG rep.

But 2 things:

First, PP is producing information to support their claim. It's like a supplement company sponsoring a clinical trial... how much can we actually trust. I'm not saying that PP is lying, i am just offering that up for thought.

Not with their specific androseries products but there is a fair amount on the self emulsifying drug delivery system (AKA liquidvade). It isnt much of a stretch to think a hormone in liquidvade would have better absorbability then a capped hormone. Although I will admit superiority with regard to Liquidvade vs sublingual (with the HPB-Cycldextrin) is questionable and debatable as the evidence for both arent really concrete.

The same can be said with anything we (LG) say regarding our improved bioavailability.

I was JUST about to ask this

Second, PP's series run $100+, while we offer products for 30 dollars roughly.

Food for thought.

But how many bottles would you need to equal the dose of the androseries. That is the question being asked. If LG wants to bring back MMv2 then androhard and 1-alpha will be their competitors and LG has to show how much absorbability their version will have so then we can compare it in price per serving (based upon the absorbability) and not per bottle. But then again all the claims, like you said will be from the manufacture. I guess it will boil down to HPB-Cycldextrin vs. liquidvade

http://www.advancedmusclescience.com/products/pro-anabolic-supplements/1-alpha-capsules/#nogo

Yea I saw that after you posted. Is this a new product from AMS?

 

[oufinny]

I don't have much of a dog in this fight as chem stuff is a bit out of my realm of knowledge. But 2 things:

First, PP is producing information to support their claim. It's like a supplement company sponsoring a clinical trial... how much can we actually trust. I'm not saying that PP is lying, i am just offering that up for thought. The same can be said with anything we (LG) say regarding our improved bioavailability.

Second, PP's series run $100+, while we offer products for 30 dollars roughly.

Food for thought.

In reality it may be from the manufacturer but everything that is claimed is backed up. Everyone knows if you drink GFJ with your orals, you get much better absorption and bio-availabilty. The same goes for taking anything hormone related in the presence of a lipid or fat, again, studies show this. It is also why many OTC test boosters recommend to take fish oil with the dose, it makes a difference allbeit not a huge one.

Here is the thing, oral bio-availability of androsterone, epiandrosterone is not good, this is VERY well documented. Sublingual delivery does help but as LG said, you are limited by how much you can get in one dose. That brings the next question, how many doses can you get in a day and how much does it take to get to a sizable amount that will make a big difference? No one is knocking MMV2, I wish I got to try it to be honest I never heard a bad thing about it, I just bring up the question I did before, if it was so good then why not bring it back just like it was and add more?

 

[JudoJosh]

Here is the thing, oral bio-availability of androsterone, epiandrosterone is not good, this is VERY well documented. Sublingual delivery does help but as LG said, you are limited by how much you can get in one dose. That brings the next question, how many doses can you get in a day and how much does it take to get to a sizable amount that will make a big difference? No one is knocking MMV2, I wish I got to try it to be honest I never heard a bad thing about it, I just bring up the question I did before, if it was so good then why not bring it back just like it was and add more?

I have never tried the old MMv2 either but like you, i have heard nothing but good things about it.

That said, the proposed 25mg epiandrosterone for this current product will probably be pretty similar to the old MMv2.

I dont know what MMv2 was dosed at but I do know MMv3 only contains 20mg of androsterone. So if the MMv2 was dosed the same way MMv3 is, then this proposed product should be like the old MMv2.

My problem is with the liquid delivery and is just a personal preference really. I just dont like it (I always feel like I swallow most of it and it doesnt dissolve all the way). If they stick with sublingual I would rather see tabs or just cap it and bring out a stanodrol type product.

 

[prld2gr8ns]

Mmv2 was capped at 100mg per at 90 per bottle combined with Y and some other things.

Why doesn't anyone just come out with a fat dissolved product? Take the hormone, dump it in some oil and package it with a dropper. Better delivery, cheaper overhead, more effective. Winner winner chicken dinner.

 

[JudoJosh]

Mmv2 was capped at 100mg per at 90 per bottle combined with Y and some other things.

Why doesn't anyone just come out with a fat dissolved product? Take the hormone, dump it in some oil and package it with a dropper. Better delivery, cheaper overhead, more effective. Winner winner chicken dinner.

MMv2 wasnt sublingual tabs?

 

[oufinny]

MMv2 wasnt sublingual tabs?

Nope. That was supposed to be the improvement in MMV3, we all saw how that went.

 

[JudoJosh]

Nope. That was supposed to be the improvement in MMV3, we all saw how that went.

Oh if thats the case then I definitely would like to see a capped version instead of any sublingual one.

200mg caps FTW!

 

[jbryand101b]

This thread is about bringing back MMv2 right? So by androsterone we are talking about the isomer 3-beta-hydroxyetioallocholan-17-one correct? I know it gets confusing using the term androsterone with all these companies using the term 1-androsterone so I wont use it anymore.

Do any of the companies you listed make a 3-beta-hydroxyetioallocholan-17-one product? Or even a 3 alpha isomer of it? Their androsterone products or 1-andro as they call it are 1-Dehydroepiandrosterone or 1-Androstene-3b-ol, 17-one (AKA 1-DHEA). The 3 beta (MMv2/stanodrol/androhard) and 3 alpha (MMv3) isomers of androsterone convert to DHT. 1-Androstene-3b-ol, 17-one is said to convert to 1-test.

So 1-androsterone does not equal androsterone. At least this is my understanding of it since they convert differently, 3-beta-hydroxyetioallocholan-17-one converts more to DHT and 1- Androstene-3b-ol, 17-one should convert to 1-testosterone.

Again this is my understanding of it and I could be wrong but as far as I know there are no other companies that are currently making any if those isimers besides primordials androhard.

you are right.

The AMS product is very similar to PP, it may be a different isomer though. I know that PP went back to both the alpha and beta isomer because both have certain benefits. I want it to be great, I heard it was, times have changed though with the androseries now and some of the other options from AMS and a select few others. The kicker is people got wise after PP let everyone know how much you are really getting from the active which makes it hard for a company to just put out the same ol same ol and be taken seriously.

you are wrong.

:thumbsup:

androsterone= 5a reduced testosterone aka dht (ultimately)

1-androsterone= 5a reduced boldenone aka 1-test (ultimately)

different target hormones.

 

[jbryand101b]

I think thats 1-Alpha by AMS its 3-beta-hydroxy-androstan-17-one

yes, this is a ph to dht.

 

[JudoJosh]

You have any thoughts on this proposed product Jbry?

Think 25mg epiandrosterone taken in a sublingual liquid (I assume taken with HPB-Cycldextrin) will be an effective androsterone product and would be comparable and competitive with androhard or stanodrol?

 

[prld2gr8ns]

Oh if thats the case then I definitely would like to see a capped version instead of any sublingual one.

200mg caps FTW!

I like the way you think.

 

[jbryand101b]

You have any thoughts on this proposed product Jbry?

Think 25mg epiandrosterone taken in a sublingual liquid (I assume taken with HPB-Cycldextrin) will be an effective androsterone product and would be comparable and competitive with androhard or stanodrol?

I think this depends on how the cyclo is attached to the compound

 

[PrepNwa23]

Give us 3-beta-hydroxyetioallocholan-17-one, back with no Y.

 

[prld2gr8ns]

Give us 3-beta-hydroxyetioallocholan-17-one, back with no Y.

High dosed or with a lipid carrier :thumbsup:

 

[PrepNwa23]

A liquid carrier would be fine by me. As long as I can play with dosing cause Id love to stack this with a few of my future ph runs.

 

[Blergs]

A liquid carrier would be fine by me. As long as I can play with dosing cause Id love to stack this with a few of my future ph runs.

me too!
i hope one comes out without yohimbine and il be all over it.

 

[JeffJohnston]

Yes I know of a few lifters and pp that would like to see a liquid version back!

 

[GMG760]

Any updates on this? I seriously would buy MMV2 (liquid or capsule... none of this sublingual tab stuff though) in a heartbeat... and a lot of it.

 

[PrepNwa23]

Any updates on this? I seriously would buy MMV2 (liquid or capsule... none of this sublingual tab stuff though) in a heartbeat... and a lot of it.

For sure I'd jump on quite a few bottles of this stuff especially if its liquid form.

 

[Blergs]

im gonna push on this and see the responce.

 

[classic34]

I'm not incredibly fond of the name 1-androsterone given to 1-DHEA because it just confuses people. Anyhow looking forward to when/if the liquid or capsule epiandrosterone w/ no yohimbine is released because I think it will really be a hit...and we'll hopefully have the new T-911 as well for your androsterone/pre-workout needs.

 

[PrepNwa23]

I think it will have a huge following cause it stacks well with lots of things.

 

[oufinny]

If it is epi-androsterone and dosed high, especially in pill form with a fatty acid carrier, it will be sick. Anything that is a standard pill will have to be so high because of the lack of bio-availability it may not be cost effective.

 

[PrepNwa23]

If it is epi-androsterone and dosed high, especially in pill form with a fatty acid carrier, it will be sick. Anything that is a standard pill will have to be so high because of the lack of bio-availability it may not be cost effective.

I definitely think it needs to be a liquid carrier for it to help its bioavailability.

 

[PrepNwa23]

Any updates?

 

[JoHNnyNuTZ]

Just thinkng about this^^^^^