Inhibit-P, Vitex Agnus Castus, and motivation/sex drive

[conkertheking]

I'm planning to run a prolactin busting cycle in January. Having previously used other L-DOPA based products with only moderate success, possibly due to a B6 deficiency, I'm, considering giving Inhibit-P a try this time around.

However, one thing seriously concerns me. I'm not an anabolic user, never have been. My motivation in balancing my hormones is that my "drive" has been low for some time, not just sex-wise but in general. After repeated blood tests and runs with other compounds (I've just done a massive log of BLR's Rebirth and Letrone with massive success) I've come to the conclusion that the root of my sub-optimal test and lack of motivation is almost certainly related to the fact that my prolactin generally comes back in the range of 200-240. This is within the lab range, but it's much closer to the high end to the low, which is why I'm looking into running an OTC product instead of bring out the big guns.

I'm hesitant, though. My reading of Vitex Agnus Castus related articles indicates that it has been used as a libido reduction agent, possibly due to an antagonistic effect on D2 receptors. Would this not negate the mood effects of a drop in prolactin? As my primary reason for doing this is motivation and mood issues almost certainly related to prolactin dominance over dopamine, the last time I want to do is make what dopamine I have less effective.

What are people's thoughts on this? Or is it one of those cases wherein enduring a month of nastiness due to Vitex will result in a long-term cure for the prolactin issue and thus be worth it?

Pretty conflicted about this. I'd like to try a supp which has less than 99% L-DOPA since there seem to be other compounds in MP which help with these issues, but I'm not sure if it's worth risking taking something which will kill off my sex drive and motivation by blocking the action of Dopamine.

 

[test112]

I had thought it was actually a D2 agonist and that potential libido issues in men had more to do with effects on something else hormonal (progesterone? Not sure). I was also under the impression that traditional use as a chastening agent was for women but I could be mistaken.

And I thought the vitex in Inhibit P was extracted for only certain components?

This whole post of mine is full of weasel words so I'm not sure it's much use to you sorry; hopefully more knowledgeable people can chime in

 

[booneman77]

I can't speak specifically to the ingredient itself, but I too suffer from regularly high prolactin and low drive. I've found the two things that seem to cause me the most issues are related to cortisol and prolactin, obviously especially in pct.

When I ran tren I had one of the worst pct experiences you could imagine and it was months before o get right again. After trest however, I made sure to utilize proper prolactin AND cortisol control in inhibit p/reduce xt and literally had the best pct possible. I actually felt better around week 2 of pct than I did 8weeks after completing pct.

For me personally, I find that my drive increased significantly when I manage cortisol and prolactin. I plan to run a little test on this without being part of pct here in a few weeks or so and see how that works. I expect to see the same kind of spike I did while in pct, except from a slightly higher starting point.

 

[conkertheking]

And I thought the vitex in Inhibit P was extracted for only certain components?

I'm not sure, if this is the case could anyone explain? It could be perhaps that they leave the compounds which suppress dopamine out of their mix?

I can't speak specifically to the ingredient itself, but I too suffer from regularly high prolactin and low drive. I've found the two things that seem to cause me the most issues are related to cortisol and prolactin, obviously especially in pct.

When I ran tren I had one of the worst pct experiences you could imagine and it was months before o get right again. After trest however, I made sure to utilize proper prolactin AND cortisol control in inhibit p/reduce xt and literally had the best pct possible. I actually felt better around week 2 of pct than I did 8weeks after completing pct.

For me personally, I find that my drive increased significantly when I manage cortisol and prolactin. I plan to run a little test on this without being part of pct here in a few weeks or so and see how that works. I expect to see the same kind of spike I did while in pct, except from a slightly higher starting point.

That's a pretty ringing endorsement to be fair. Obviously the reason I'm worried here is that when a plant is listed as an anti-aphrodisiac and a libido suppressant almost everywhere you read about it, you kinda have some difficult decisions to make.

 

[booneman77]

I'm not sure, if this is the case could anyone explain? It could be perhaps that they leave the compounds which suppress dopamine out of their mix?




That's a pretty ringing endorsement to be fair. Obviously the reason I'm worried here is that when a plant is listed as an anti-aphrodisiac and a libido suppressant almost everywhere you read about it, you kinda have some difficult decisions to make.

Again, I can't speak to this specifically, but typically in many supplements it's not the entire plant that's used, but an extract (as mentioned above). Most of the time the extract is pulled to bring out only specific components that deliver the desired effects.

 

[Distilled Water]

I can't speak specifically to the ingredient itself, but I too suffer from regularly high prolactin and low drive. I've found the two things that seem to cause me the most issues are related to cortisol and prolactin, obviously especially in pct.

When I ran tren I had one of the worst pct experiences you could imagine and it was months before o get right again. After trest however, I made sure to utilize proper prolactin AND cortisol control in inhibit p/reduce xt and literally had the best pct possible. I actually felt better around week 2 of pct than I did 8weeks after completing pct.

For me personally, I find that my drive increased significantly when I manage cortisol and prolactin. I plan to run a little test on this without being part of pct here in a few weeks or so and see how that works. I expect to see the same kind of spike I did while in pct, except from a slightly higher starting point.

I can attest to this also as I am in the same boat. Nothing but positives

 

[furion]

I'm planning to run a prolactin busting cycle in January. Having previously used other L-DOPA based products with only moderate success, possibly due to a B6 deficiency, I'm, considering giving Inhibit-P a try this time around.

However, one thing seriously concerns me. I'm not an anabolic user, never have been. My motivation in balancing my hormones is that my "drive" has been low for some time, not just sex-wise but in general. After repeated blood tests and runs with other compounds (I've just done a massive log of BLR's Rebirth and Letrone with massive success) I've come to the conclusion that the root of my sub-optimal test and lack of motivation is almost certainly related to the fact that my prolactin generally comes back in the range of 200-240. This is within the lab range, but it's much closer to the high end to the low, which is why I'm looking into running an OTC product instead of bring out the big guns.

I'm hesitant, though. My reading of Vitex Agnus Castus related articles indicates that it has been used as a libido reduction agent, possibly due to an antagonistic effect on D2 receptors. Would this not negate the mood effects of a drop in prolactin? As my primary reason for doing this is motivation and mood issues almost certainly related to prolactin dominance over dopamine, the last time I want to do is make what dopamine I have less effective.

What are people's thoughts on this? Or is it one of those cases wherein enduring a month of nastiness due to Vitex will result in a long-term cure for the prolactin issue and thus be worth it?

Pretty conflicted about this. I'd like to try a supp which has less than 99% L-DOPA since there seem to be other compounds in MP which help with these issues, but I'm not sure if it's worth risking taking something which will kill off my sex drive and motivation by blocking the action of Dopamine.

The affects of Vitex on dopamine transmission at lactotrophs are specific to extract constituents and are polarized by the dose (low dose--> D2 antagonist, high dose --> D2 agonist activity). This suggests either the most likely active dopamingeric constituents have partial agonist activity or the lower antagonist/lower Ki constituents are competitively inhibited by the greater concentration of agonist constituents with greater Ki . The majority of applicable in vitro evidence suggests the latter- which is consistent with the in vivo results demonstrating mitigation of prolactinaemia.
The extract and dose used in Inhibit-P well and truly exceeds this proposed dose threshold for D2 agonist activity- so there is no cause for concern.

 

[test112]

Vitex can supposedly lower FSH. Is this still an issue with the particular extract used in inhibit P?

 

[furion]

Vitex can supposedly lower FSH. Is this still an issue with the particular extract used in inhibit P?

This is a point of contention in the literature. Research demonstrating a decrease in gonadotrophin levels use either absurdly high oral doses of non-polar constituent rich extracts or high doses via intravenous administration. My opinion is that the drop of FSH observed in this research may be resultant of the very high concentration of flavonoids acting at estrogen receptors.
The most usable data (tested in human at reasonable oral doses) does not note any change in FSH (or LH/testosterone).

 

[test112]

This is a point of contention in the literature. Research demonstrating a decrease in gonadotrophin levels use either absurdly high oral doses of non-polar constituent rich extracts or high doses via intravenous administration. My opinion is that the drop of FSH observed in this research may be resultant of the very high concentration of flavonoids acting at estrogen receptors.
The most usable data (tested in human at reasonable oral doses) does not note any change in FSH (or LH/testosterone).

Thank you for your reply.

Interesting that Mucuna has data supporting increases in LH/FSH, presumably secondary to increase in dopamine activity and prolactin reduction, and vitex is a D2 agonist but as you say doesn't affect these parameters.

 

[furion]

Thank you for your reply.

Interesting that Mucuna has data supporting increases in LH/FSH, presumably secondary to increase in dopamine activity and prolactin reduction, and vitex is a D2 agonist but as you say doesn't affect these parameters.

The data on the Mucuna increasing LH and T (actually found decrease in FSH) was tested in hypogonadic/hyperprolactinaemic men- so the increase in LH and T is without a doubt consequential of prolactin inhibition.
Unless I'm mistaken there isn't any evidence that Mucuna can increase LH/T in normogonadic men. Pharmaceutical D2 agonists like cabergoline or bromocriptine are not capable of this.

The evidence that demonstrated the hypoprolactinaemic activity of a Vitex extract was tested in healthy men without significant variances in LH, FSH or T- and noted the decrease in prolactin was dependent on the dose and serum concentration of prolactin of the subjects- therefore a direct comparison to Mucuns can't really be made.

As there isn't specific research testing a Vitex extract in clinically recognized hyperprolactinaemic males with secondary hypogonadism a specific claim of increasing LH/T can't be made such as that with Mucuna- however considering the collective evidence demonstrating dopaminergic activity, in theory it would certainly seem plausible.

 

[conkertheking]

The data on the Mucuna increasing LH and T (actually found decrease in FSH) was tested in hypogonadic/hyperprolactinaemic men- so the increase in LH and T is without a doubt consequential of prolactin inhibition.
Unless I'm mistaken there isn't any evidence that Mucuna can increase LH/T in normogonadic men. Pharmaceutical D2 agonists like cabergoline or bromocriptine are not capable of this.

The evidence that demonstrated the hypoprolactinaemic activity of a Vitex extract was tested in healthy men without significant variances in LH, FSH or T- and noted the decrease in prolactin was dependent on the dose and serum concentration of prolactin of the subjects- therefore a direct comparison to Mucuns can't really be made.

As there isn't specific research testing a Vitex extract in clinically recognized hyperprolactinaemic males with secondary hypogonadism a specific claim of increasing LH/T can't be made such as that with Mucuna- however considering the collective evidence demonstrating dopaminergic activity, in theory it would certainly seem plausible.

Well there soon will be if I can find somewhere in the UK or Ireland selling Inhibit-P! I just did a Letrone log in which I crushed my E2 below the lab range and my LH and FSH didn't budge (both at 2 with a range of 2-12) - with prolactin in the upper end of the normal range I've deduced that it is the most likely cause of the hypogonadotropism.

Next cycle if I can get my hands on Inhibit-P will be a stack of it with Letrone, see if that'll give the HPTA a much needed kick up the ass