Help me go to sleep

[Hurleyboy05]

I've recently been taking ambien 10mg pre-bedtime, but as of lately it's been wearing off after about 2-4 hours. Either that, or I'm up, acting like a zombie, doing/saying things I do not remember in the morning. I'm done with ambien.
So, I ordered some ON Melatonin, and some bulk 1-carboxy from NP last night, and am expecting it to arrive tomorrow. What is a good starting dose, and should these to compounds be mixed? I have been diagnosed with extreme insomnia (hence the ambien) so do not worry about overdosing me, but give me your best mixture result recipes - I NEED MY SLEEP!

Thanks, fellas (and Crader/Asianbabe)!

 

[SilentBob187]

I think there was a post not too long ago that said that the sweet spot with melatonin is actually less than a milligram.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplements/76002-too-muc-one.html

And it looks like taking a few mg of GABA doesn't hurt either.

 

[LeanGuy]

Hurleyboy, you are in good company. The last couple of months have been hell sleeping, ambien did NOTHING except give a migraine. You should be fine mixing melatonin & 1C, but neither worked well for me. Phenibut works the best, but you can't take it every day. If everything else fails, I take 25mg trazodone and sleep ok.

 

[Hurleyboy05]

Also, would either of the substances mentioned above have any effects on testofen (fenugreek), or Inhibit-E. That is my current "stack" at the moment, so I don't want to screw anything up. Thanks guys!

 

[DBinMD]

From a fellow insomniac, you have my deepest sympathy. I’ve got it big time and I’ve tried a lot of things.
Try Lunesta, it’s a little better. GABA helps a lot (6-9 gms). I think 6 caps of Ultimate Nutrition Arginine Pyroglutamate Lysine works, too. It seems that when I combine the GABA and Arginine I don’t sleep more, just better. As far as I can tell the Lunesta, GABA, and Arginine work well without any sides. You can take benydryl, but with anything much above 3-4 caps the cure is worse than the disease. Nothing gets me completely thru the night, but I find I can take a smaller dose of GABA when I wakwe up without any problems.

DB

 

[poison]

Try Somnidren-GH. Great stuff!

 

[Hurleyboy05]

Try Somnidren-GH. Great stuff!

I tried a sample and just ended up with red eyes, and some tingles. Believe it or not I was really psyched about Somni, but my insomnia just overpowered it. I'd rather be missing an arm, instead of all this sleep!!! :aargh:

 

[poison]

Try Mega-Sleep Aid from custom capsule.

 

[john123131]

I hear ya hurley, i hate not getting sleep, happens alot to me in the summer....

 

[Steveoph]

I would recommend starting Powerful at 1g 30mins pre-bed and seeing how it goes from there. Also melatonin is very potent stuff; I know 3 mg hits me like a hammer, and even 1 mg does the trick.

Be careful with GABA; I don't know why but I swear the stuff actually makes it more difficult for me to fall alseep. I may just be the odd person, but that is my personal experience. So take your Melatonin and 1-C 30mins pre-bed and see how that goes.

Also like I've stated before, falling asleep and getting a good sleep is all about your mindset. If you have you brain occupied when you hit the pillow you won't be relaxed. Look into deep breathing techniques and some meditation. As little as 5 minutes can make a world of difference.

Let me know how it goes!

 

[Hurleyboy05]

I would recommend starting Powerful at 1g 30mins pre-bed and seeing how it goes from there. Also melatonin is very potent stuff; I know 3 mg hits me like a hammer, and even 1 mg does the trick.

Be careful with GABA; I don't know why but I swear the stuff actually makes it more difficult for me to fall alseep. I may just be the odd person, but that is my personal experience. So take your Melatonin and 1-C 30mins pre-bed and see how that goes.

Also like I've stated before, falling asleep and getting a good sleep is all about your mindset. If you have you brain occupied when you hit the pillow you won't be relaxed. Look into deep breathing techniques and some meditation. As little as 5 minutes can make a world of difference.

Let me know how it goes!

Thanks for the heads up/info Steveoph. I'll definitely post my results (hopefully the morning after next) We'll see, I'm thinkn' I'm gonna be a tough cookie to crack - hope not!

 

[LeanGuy]

Hurleyboy, don't take anything too early tonight, or you might miss LOST

 

[Hurleyboy05]

I'm gonna be up all night tonite... no goodies until tomorrow

 

[TheLittleGuy]

HB did you find your self eating in your sleep? I have heard many stories of people driving or sleep eating and walking while on ambien

 

[slow-mun]

HB did you find your self eating in your sleep? I have heard many stories of people driving or sleep eating and walking while on ambien

I actually tried to shave my face while on Ambien. I ended up with some severly uneven sideburns and woke up on the floor with almost no memory of the entire event. To the OP, I used to have the same problem with ambien. Do you feel refreshed after only a few hours of sleep too?

 

[slow-mun]

Oh, and I've been off of prescription sleep meds for about 2.5 years now. I had PTSD as a result of back to back tours to Afghanistan and Iraq, and was prescribed eveything under the sun at one time or another for sleep. I highly recommend finding an over the counter solution that works. I've actually had the best results with mucuna pruriens products taken about 45min. to an hour before sleep.

 

[Hurleyboy05]

Well, I never ate or drove while on ambien, but I had some pretty interesting conversations with my family (according to them) also, I never really felt refreshed after taking ambien, mostly just kinda hazy, and pissed off that I was awake again 2 hours later.

Also. My Melatonin and 1-C have arrived! Can't wait to see what happens tonite!

 

[Trauma1]

Well, I never ate or drove while on ambien, but I had some pretty interesting conversations with my family (according to them) also, I never really felt refreshed after taking ambien, mostly just kinda hazy, and pissed off that I was awake again 2 hours later.

There have been countless stories of adverse ambien effects that are very consistent with your experience. I've treated a few people that had sleepwalked and actually injured themselves as a result. The complete amnesia effect of personal events/happening is very common believe it or not.

Have you tried lunesta? Trazodone although used primarily for treatment of depressive illness, it actually has a very beneficial adverse effect for insomniacs. It shows very good results in assiting with sedation and sleep induction for many. Talk to your PMD about it. To each their own ,and what doesn't work for others may work very well for you.

 

[Hurleyboy05]

There have been countless stories of adverse ambien effects that are very consistent with your experience. I've treated a few people that had sleepwalked and actually injured themselves as a result. The complete amnesia effect of personal events/happening is very common believe it or not.

Have you tried lunesta? Trazodone although used primarily for treatment of depressive illness, it actually has a very beneficial adverse effect for insomniacs. It shows very good results in assiting with sedation and sleep induction for many. Talk to your PMD about it. To each their own ,and what doesn't work for others may work very well for you.

Thanks for the info T. I've been talking to a couple nurses at school and they both recommended Trazodone, so if these supps don't give me any results, I'll be back to my doc about Traz.

 

[freezito]

i serv of zmk and 4 of the old powerfull knock me out

 

[Trauma1]

Thanks for the info T. I've been talking to a couple nurses at school and they both recommended Trazodone, so if these supps don't give me any results, I'll be back to my doc about Traz.

No problem brotha. In all honesty i'd stay away from benzodiazepines(ambien,lunesta,restoril)if at all possible. Tolerance develops rather quickly along with eventual physical/psyhcological dependance. Not worth it in the long run. Good luck bro.

 

[St1ff]

I've been having horrible problems sleeping for the past 6 months or so. I've tried melatonin and It didn't do a thing for me. Phenibut worked, but it came with some weird sides. My friend actually tried phenibut and it put him in the hospital for a day or so. He had a weird reaction to it so i'm steering away from that stuff for a while.

Excedrine PM worked for a while, but then I got use to it.

I finally cracked and they put me on a low dose SSRI and gave me some Lunesta. I haven't tried the Lunesta yet because I've been on call for work and I'm not sure if I would wake up to the pager or not. The SSRI is pretty much doing its trick. I think I'm making up for all the sleep I missed. I'm able to go home from work and take a nap and still go to bed at night and sleep all night.

Insomnia sucks I feel for ya.

 

[kfraserj]

wrong drug class

No problem brotha. In all honesty i'd stay away from benzodiazepines(ambien,lunesta,restoril)if at all possible. Tolerance develops rather quickly along with eventual physical/psyhcological dependance. Not worth it in the long run. Good luck bro.

Yes he should stay away from benzo's for sleep induction but ambien/etc. are NOT benzo's! they are nonbenzodiazepines. They work on the same receptor but have a much lower tendency for addiction or depedency.

 

[Trauma1]

Yes he should stay away from benzo's for sleep induction but ambien/etc. are NOT benzo's! they are nonbenzodiazepines. They work on the same receptor but have a much lower tendency for addiction or depedency.

True, but ambien and lunesta still exibit similar effects on the same receptor site. So while the risks are lower overall in theory, they STILL very much so remain intact. Restoril is indeed a benzodiazepine on all accounts of the class in which it's placed. The end result of treatment regardless is a temporary solution to a long term problem.

 

[LeanGuy]

I've been talking to a couple nurses at school and they both recommended Trazodone, so if these supps don't give me any results, I'll be back to my doc about Traz.

They are right. Low dose of traz works great for me... only 25mg knocks me out, with few sides.

 

[KelJu]

I take 10mg ambien, 9mg melatonin, 400mg seroquel.

 

[strategicmove]

I take 10mg ambien, 9mg melatonin, 400mg seroquel.

That's quite above average dosing. Is it for therapeutic purposes?

 

[avgBdybldr]

in my college days, i used ambien with 2 miller lites. yeah, not the smartest thing, but hell, i didn't remember the next 6 hours. sleeped like a log.

 

[MuscleGuyinNY]

Ny-Quil liqui-gels are pretty much like legal roofies. I realize that it's not good to take medicine when you're not sick, but you need to do with what you can. That ish knocks me out.

 

[Trauma1]

Ah Ny-Quil

 

[Hurleyboy05]

Well, I took 3mg Melatonin and 1/4 tsp (800mg) of 1-C last night. It didn't really knock me out per se, but I guess I fell asleep before 3 am, which is unusual for me (without ambien). So we'll see, I may up the dose on the 1-C a little bit tonite and see if that changes anything.

 

[Whiplash]

Ok, lay off the stims buddy and go buy some unisom from your local store. Just try it.

 

[Red Dog]

I'm like you Hurley, I never fall asleep before 4-6 a.m. and its just so stupid..

Never tried Lunesta or melatonin.. and when you say 3g of melatonin you mean 3mg right? I might have to give that a try cause unless I take OTC sleep aid Im just up all night

 

[manifesto]

Smoke some herb.

 

[Ziquor]

One time I (on Ambien) was staying at a friends and I took all the cheese in her house (slices, grated, etc.) and put it all in a pot cooking it for an hour, stirring. I'm not sure what the hell I planned on doing with it but she sure was pissed the next day when she found cheese 'sauce' all over her kitchen. I don't remember any of it. Some sites like Wiki & others state that Ambien, Lunesta, etc. are non-benzo sleep aids with less dependancy potential but this is bullsh!t. Most of the newer studies show a much higher risk of dependency with these than benzo's. I worked p/t in a rehab for a while & there were TONS more people who had problems with sleep aids than benzos. As stated above they work on your GABA receptor just like benzo's however sleep aids also act as hallucinagens when one takes and doesn't go to sleep. From everything I've seen & experienced 1st hand sleep aids such as Ambien will give you MUCH worse sleeping problems in the long run. You'll feel the need to up the dosage constantly to get the same affects. I've seen a couple of people who had seizures from Ambien withdwawals. Scarry drugs, especially with so many sites 'downplaying' the addiction potential. Sometimes I wonder how much money companies like Aventis spend to buy people out so they can advertise their products as 'safe' and low abuse potential. It's really sad. The only prescription sleep aid which doesn't harbor abuse potential is Rozerem & it's just a high dose Melatonin. I personally use Powerfull & 1mg of Melatonin and it works amazing. Good luck.

 

[Hurleyboy05]

Well, last night I took 3mg melatonin and 1.6g of 1-C. I did sleep pretty well overall, and the only drawback was the hazy morning. I'll try this dose again tonite and see if it has the same effect, or if I was just exhausted last night.

 

[Ziquor]

When I took Ambien, I took it multiple times but for never longer than 2 weeks straight. But everytime I stopped it I still had a much harder time sleeping than ever for my first 3 days/nights off of it. Once you get through those 2-3 nights you're golden.

 

[manifesto]

Well, last night I took 3mg melatonin and 1.6g of 1-C. I did sleep pretty well overall, and the only drawback was the hazy morning. I'll try this dose again tonite and see if it has the same effect, or if I was just exhausted last night.

Dude, seriously...just smoke some pot. It will put you right out. Would you rather be messing with Ambien, Melatonin, and all this other stuff that , may or may not, be habit forming...?

At least the effects of Marijuana have been studied for hundreds of years, and one will not form a Physical addiction.

 

[Hurleyboy05]

Dude, seriously...just smoke some pot. It will put you right out. Would you rather be messing with Ambien, Melatonin, and all this other stuff that , may or may not, be habit forming...?

At least the effects of Marijuana have been studied for hundreds of years, and one will not form a Physical addiction.

Dude, don't be ignorant. Have I mentioned one illegal substance yet in this thread? If I had taken your first offer of marijuana seriously I would have told you, yet it went ignored by everyone else who saw it. If you are trying to be helpful, thank you. But if you are just trying to post the fact that you smoke marijuana because you think its cool/funny/whatever just quit now. I'm looking for legitimate, helpful, legal ways to help with my chronic insomnia. If you have anything other that controlled substances to offer up, then by all means, go ahead. If not, then please don't continue to push your unhelpfulness any further.

 

[Ziquor]

Dude, seriously...just smoke some pot. It will put you right out. Would you rather be messing with Ambien, Melatonin, and all this other stuff that , may or may not, be habit forming...?

At least the effects of Marijuana have been studied for hundreds of years, and one will not form a Physical addiction.

I agree. The rehab joint I worked in for a bit I seen probably over 1,000 different people come & go and I never seen one who had a pot addiction. Though I have heard people say pot was their 'gateway' drug which led them to do other things they wouldn't have done sober. But that goes for alcohol even more so.

 

[manifesto]

I agree. The rehab joint I worked in for a bit I seen probably over 1,000 different people come & go and I never seen one who had a pot addiction. Though I have heard people say pot was their 'gateway' drug which led them to do other things they wouldn't have done sober. But that goes for alcohol even more so.

Well, Marijuana does lead to other things....mostly junkfood!

 

[manifesto]

Dude, don't be ignorant. Have I mentioned one illegal substance yet in this thread? If I had taken your first offer of marijuana seriously I would have told you, yet it went ignored by everyone else who saw it. If you are trying to be helpful, thank you. But if you are just trying to post the fact that you smoke marijuana because you think its cool/funny/whatever just quit now. I'm looking for legitimate, helpful, legal ways to help with my chronic insomnia. If you have anything other that controlled substances to offer up, then by all means, go ahead. If not, then please don't continue to push your unhelpfulness any further.

Whoa relax bro....I don't even smoke weed anymore, but I know that it has proven to help with sleeping disorders...If you want to remain a pill popping insomniac, so be it. You act like I told you to go boot some black tar Heroin.

 

[Hurleyboy05]

Whoa relax bro....I don't even smoke weed anymore, but I know that it has proven to help with sleeping disorders...If you want to remain a pill popping insomniac, so be it. You act like I told you to go boot some black tar Heroin.

I'm sorry if I came off like an *******. I'm just very frustrated over this and I guess I took your comment like some of the other unhelpful comments that occasionally pop up here and there on these threads. If you were trying to be helpful then I apologize. I'm just really tired of some of the idiots that troll these forums with their "amazing knowledge" on every post. Again, I apologize for getting snappy, I guess I'm just a little grump today. My bad.

 

[manifesto]

Its all good bro...I just know in the past that it did help me and some others I know. Again, I am not talking about getting completely baked, just enough to help you sleep. Good luck.

 

[angelo212]

No problem brotha. In all honesty i'd stay away from benzodiazepines(ambien,lunesta,restoril)if at all possible. Tolerance develops rather quickly along with eventual physical/psyhcological dependance. Not worth it in the long run. Good luck bro.

Ambian, Lunesta, Restoril are benzos? I don't think so.

 

[Trauma1]

Ambian, Lunesta, Restoril are benzos? I don't think so.

Restoril IS a benzo! So....I think so! It's obvious you didn't read the whole thread.

 

[Ziquor]

Restoril is a benzo, and the most addictive type. Hypnotic benzo's (Restoril, Roofies, etc.) are by far the most addictive type of benzo's, much more so than Valium, Xanax, and so on. Ambien & Lunesta are not classified as benzo's though, yet they do work on the same exact receptors (gaba) and are very strong hypnotics like Restoril.

 

[Whiplash]

One time I (on Ambien) was staying at a friends and I took all the cheese in her house (slices, grated, etc.) and put it all in a pot cooking it for an hour, stirring. I'm not sure what the hell I planned on doing with it but she sure was pissed the next day when she found cheese 'sauce' all over her kitchen. I don't remember any of it. Some sites like Wiki & others state that Ambien, Lunesta, etc. are non-benzo sleep aids with less dependancy potential but this is bullsh!t. Most of the newer studies show a much higher risk of dependency with these than benzo's. I worked p/t in a rehab for a while & there were TONS more people who had problems with sleep aids than benzos. As stated above they work on your GABA receptor just like benzo's however sleep aids also act as hallucinagens when one takes and doesn't go to sleep. From everything I've seen & experienced 1st hand sleep aids such as Ambien will give you MUCH worse sleeping problems in the long run. You'll feel the need to up the dosage constantly to get the same affects. I've seen a couple of people who had seizures from Ambien withdwawals. Scarry drugs, especially with so many sites 'downplaying' the addiction potential. Sometimes I wonder how much money companies like Aventis spend to buy people out so they can advertise their products as 'safe' and low abuse potential. It's really sad. The only prescription sleep aid which doesn't harbor abuse potential is Rozerem & it's just a high dose Melatonin. I personally use Powerfull & 1mg of Melatonin and it works amazing. Good luck.

Yea those things reverse the effect, and if you do not go to sleep while on a large dose you will be in a "dream-like state" but be awake, and really have no control over your actions. It will be like one big dream, but its happening in real time. Its actually kinda of scary, and when it is taken in large amounts the hallucinogenic effects can be quite intense. I have watched experiences like these and I can tell you first hand, it ****s you up. Try a few natural remedies first hurley, I suggest some Bach's Rescue Aid, Sleep formula. Its all natural herbal ingredients which all work together to help you fall asleep faster.

 

[Trauma1]

Restoril is a benzo, and the most addictive type. Hypnotic benzo's (Restoril, Roofies, etc.) are by far the most addictive type of benzo's, much more so than Valium, Xanax, and so on. Ambien & Lunesta are not classified as benzo's though, yet they do work on the same exact receptors (gaba) and are very strong hypnotics like Restoril.

I wouldn't venture as far to say that valium, ativan, xanax, or klonopin aren't as addictive/dependant. All benzo's run the risk of withdrawl if taken for a time period followed by cessaion in taking. Ambien and lunesta STILL exhibit actions on the same receptor site and dependance/withdrawl may still very much be an issue.

 

[Ziquor]

I wouldn't venture as far to say that valium, ativan, xanax, or klonopin aren't as addictive/dependant. All benzo's run the risk of withdrawl if taken for a time period followed by cessaion in taking. Ambien and lunesta STILL exhibit actions on the same receptor site and dependance/withdrawl may still very much be an issue.

That may have come out wrong. All benzos can be equally and highly addictive, especially when it comes to physical withdrawal. Seizures can happen too easily when offing high doses of any benzo. Data from dependency centers and hospitals show that hypnotic benzos are the most 'abused' as they have an additional psychological affects not found in typical non-hypnotic benzos. Either way I've seen the withdrawal, not pretty at all.