Heavy metals detox log

[Spitdeath]

This question on that page caught me I have all of these problems.

Symptoms: (How is your short term memory? Do you have areas of numbness, strange sensations, etc?)

 

[Grunt76]

After all this reading up, I went and took a half-ml of my cilantro chelating solution.

It seems that it is a bad idea to stop chelation suddenly and that it's a much better one to ramp dosages up and down. I will be using 0.5ml 2x ED for a little bit. Although this is 1/6 my former dosage, it is still 2x recommended dosage. Yes you may call my former dosage "insanely huge" as it was TWELVE times the recommended dose. I won't be doing that again.

I still have lots of crap coming out my pores but I feel that keeping a certain amount of chelator going is necessary to avoid redeposition.

 

[Grunt76]

Had a pretty bad bout of the flu. Everything seems to be back to good now, or just about. Looking to start the gym again tomorrow.

One thing that seemed to have happened, is that the chelation therapy released too much toxic metal chelates into my intestines killed my intestinal flora. This in turn let me get sick. First time in 20 years. I felt like real crap for a goodly while, until I started supplementing with the bacterial cultures, and then I recovered very quickly. I mean, I started the cultures on 12/30 and today I feel like I could have a decent workout but should best wait for tomorrow, just to make sure I'm 100%. On 12/30 I was weak as a newborn pup.

Beware this phenomenon if you attempt chelation!!!

Still have crapped pores and acne.

 

[Onslaught]

It's amazing what people can convince themselves of.

You yourself know that this cilantro extract is an antimicrobial, yet you say it was the toxic metal released into your intestines that killed the flora. Gimme a break.

 

[Spitdeath]

The more I read about this it seems this detox takes more like a year or more than a few weeks.

 

[Grunt76]

It's amazing what people can convince themselves of.

You yourself know that this cilantro extract is an antimicrobial, yet you say it was the toxic metal released into your intestines that killed the flora. Gimme a break.

Nope, I didn't know that cilantro is antimicrobial at all. It must be VERY specific as to what it kills though, because I have never heard of it as being used for curing anything... Other than as a chelator of course. Your comment makes you look like you are kinda looking down at me.

@ Spitdeath, yeah it might take long. I say it's better to start now and go slower than to get caught with all kinds of problems later on.

First day back at the gym today. Whole new program, very strict at 48 seconds TUT on 8 reps. Did back. Boy does that feel good.

 

[mrmoose63]

until I started supplementing with the bacterial cultures, and then I recovered very quickly.

what kinda supplements did you use for bacterial cultures to increase good intestinal flora?

-Moose

 

[Grunt76]

It's called Bio-K but I am in Canada so I don't know if a product by the same name is available in the USA. No matter, it's just acidophilus & bifidus cultures. Live. Tastes like yogurt, kinda.

 

[Onslaught]

Nope, I didn't know that cilantro is antimicrobial at all. It must be VERY specific as to what it kills though, because I have never heard of it as being used for curing anything... Other than as a chelator of course. Your comment makes you look like you are kinda looking down at me.

Being antimicrobial doesn't equate to curing disease. But anyway, you did in fact acknowledge that it has antibacterial activity in one of your posts addressing the abstracts I posted.

I'm not attacking you, but it is ridiculous that you are having all of these symptoms and you credit it all to the toxic metal in your system. You said you haven't gotten sick in 20 years, but you're taking the cilantro and it must be the metal that's been in your system accumlating for 38 years that caused you to get ill all of a sudden. I'm sorry man, but your opinions of what is happening to you are more convenient than rational.

And where did I not give a reason for my comments? Once again, I will remind you that I raised a legitimate concern and it was you who replied with an "attack".

Sorry that I take so long to reply, I did not choose to "go away", I just have better things to do than play pseudo-scientist on the internet all the time.

 

[Onslaught]

what kinda supplements did you use for bacterial cultures to increase good intestinal flora?

-Moose

Check out FOS (fructooligosaccharides). Different route, same end result with greater efficiency. IMO, it makes more sense to feed the bacteria that's already there, helping it to replicate than trying to add to it.

Does acidophilus get destroyed in the stomach?

 

[Grunt76]

Acidophilus litterally means "likes acid" in latin.

Detox symptoms are widely documented and yes what happened to me is pretty much par for the course. See, in chelation, the toxins that are deposited in the organism are freed again, to be eventually eliminated. Short term though, these toxins are wandering around in the body prior to elimination, causing all kinds of havoc. Using 12 times the recommended dosage for chelation does produce rather intense side-effects.

It's interesting that you seem to want to criticise something you obviously know so little about.

And gee, if the bacteria is all dead, I should feed it? I don't know, food doesn't usually serve the dead too well...

 

[Grunt76]

Day 70

Yep, 10 weeks in. I am still using the lower dosage of 0.5ml 1/12th the dose I was doing in late-november and early december. AFAIK this is about equal or double the maximum recommended dose for chelation therapy, depending which source you look at.

Overall, I am feeling good. I started back in the gym with the new year and haven't let up. I have no clue as to wether or not my lifts are back to normal or what because I have drastically changed my training method to a more TUT-centered one. Specifically, I do 6-second reps, 5 seconds down, 1 second up. In late-2005, I was doing 2-3 second reps, that is, simply controlling the weight on the down, but not deliberately, slowly, lowering it. So that changes everything.

Overall feeling good, but not improved from 2005 pre-chelation. I still am having more pore clogging than normal, both on my face and on my back, which always has a few major zits on it. Obviously this isn't the norm at my age.

I am doing this to avoid degenerative disease later on and not for any immediate benefit. If there are any, then OK I'll take them, but that's not the reason for doing this. Specifically, in my readings, I've found serious indication that these metals can cause: alzheimer's and other CNS trouble, heart trouble, blocking of arteries, cholesterolemia, diabetes, liver failure, kidney malfunction, osteoporosis, hypothyroidia, muscle catabolism, joint problems, immune system downregulation, oxydative stress, and more.

 

[Teegunn]

I started reading this thread a few months ago and have now started a Cilantro and EDTA oral chelation regimine. I have had a lot of aches, pains, sore throat and general feeling of being under the weather since about day 3 of the therapy. So I assume that means this is indeed chelating metals from my body and "retoxifying" system for the time being. I am approximately 2 weeks into the regimine and just today I started taking "kyo-chlorella" after reading the post on the previous page. I will chime in from time to time to update my progress with the chelation.

 

[Grunt76]

Good stuff man. I welcome any updates you might have in this thread, this is sort of breaking new ground for bodybuilding forums.

 

[Teegunn]

Short update: I worked out last night, despite feeling a little under the weather and achey/sore. The workout didn't go too bad, all things considering. But this morning I woke up with a terrible sore neck. I am also quite sore from the workout - much more sore than usual. I have also been getting some acne, which at 36 years old - is not normal for me. In fact, I have two big assed zits under my nose right now. I haven't had anything like that in at least 15 years. I don't know if the chelation can be blamed for these symptoms, but I haven't had this kind of stuff in forever. But I am gonna stick this out. A little pain now will hopefully pay off years from now.

 

[djs2000]

Are either of you guys using the sauna w/ your detox?

If not, do you think it would be beneficial?

 

[Grunt76]

Are either of you guys using the sauna w/ your detox?

If not, do you think it would be beneficial?

I'm not using it because I don't have access to one, but I know it would be very beneficial. I use a tanning bed about 3x a week and do quite a bit of cardio, which all help in sweating. IOW I wish, but I make do with what I have.

 

[chronicpsb]

http://quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/chelation.html

Excerpt by Saul Green, Ph.D

The few well-designed studies that have addressed the efficacy of chelation for atherosclerotic diseases have been carried out by "establishment " medical scientists. Without exception, these found no evidence that chelation worked. Based on numerous reviews of the world's medical literature, these same conclusions have been reached by the FDA, the FTC, National Institutes of Health, National Research Council, California Medical Society, American Medical Association, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, American Heart Association, American College of Physicians, American Academy of Family Physicians, American Society for Clinical Pharmacology Therapeutics, American College of Cardiology, and American Osteopathic Association.
Notwithstanding claims to the contrary, the chelation "establishment" is not being victimized by a prejudiced and arrogant medical orthodoxy, but by its own unwillingness to mount a rigorous, placebo-controlled, double-blind clinical trial and stand by the results.
About the Author

Dr. Green is a biochemist who did cancer research at Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center for 23 years. He consults on scientific methodology and has a special interest in unproven methods. He can be reached at (212) 957-8029.

 

[Grunt76]

Same URL: http://quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/chelation.html

Chelation therapy, as discussed in this article, is a series of intravenous infusions containing disodium EDTA and various other substances. Proponents claim that EDTA chelation therapy is effective against atherosclerosis and many other serious health problems.

OK so EDTA by intravenous infusion probably doesn't work for atherosclerosis. What's your point?

 

[chronicpsb]

It is also erroneously claimed to be the cure for many other diseases by those who espouse it. The list of medical and scientific communities, notably the NIH, the AMA, and the FDA, that denounce it as being a valid form of treatment is a very convincing argument.

Anytime I see "detox" alarm bells go off. Based on reading a couple of these posts it seems you have convinced yourself that this self medication of chelating agents is somehow going to prevent a disease.

I liken this to many lifters that catch the latest supplement bandwagon of whatever pseudoscientific compound that is marketed to our demographic.

To add to the damage to your wallet you get flu symptoms, digestive probs, etc.....are you not the least bit skeptic of this?

 

[Grunt76]

It is also erroneously claimed to be the cure for many other diseases by those who espouse it. The list of medical and scientific communities, notably the NIH, the AMA, and the FDA, that denounce it as being a valid form of treatment is a very convincing argument.

Anytime I see "detox" alarm bells go off. Based on reading a couple of these posts it seems you have convinced yourself that this self medication of chelating agents is somehow going to prevent a disease.

I liken this to many lifters that catch the latest supplement bandwagon of whatever pseudoscientific compound that is marketed to our demographic.

To add to the damage to your wallet you get flu symptoms, digestive probs, etc.....are you not the least bit skeptic of this?

No because I did my research. Hey, BTW, a lot of MD's recommend chelation. For anything that has lots of research going for it, there is also some research going against it. And how come you've got pharma companies killing people even though there is this beautiful list of so-called regulatory bodies so thoughtfully looking after our health? It's not because your uncle is a doctor and speaks against "chelation" in general that it means he's right. I prefer taking matters into my own hands. Please, please, please, if you're going to post something in my thread, have a decently related point to make. I'm not injecting EDTA here. So unless you have sound scientific evidence that cilantro is bad for me AND doesn't chelate heavy metals, please, please, please, don't try and tell me I'm wrong because something else is being said to not work for some specific condition. OK?

So go ahead and search the SCIENTIFIC LITERATURE thoroughly, as I did, about cilantro.

 

[Onslaught]

Show me ONE in vivo study showing cilantro actually removes heavy metals from the body.

 

[chronicpsb]

And how come you've got pharma companies killing people even though there is this beautiful list of so-called regulatory bodies so thoughtfully looking after our health?

Wow. Well have fun man.

 

[Onslaught]

And gee, if the bacteria is all dead, I should feed it? I don't know, food doesn't usually serve the dead too well...

Really showcasing your ability to debate here. Where did I say "all" of your intestinal flora was "dead"?

Also, I like your use of meaningless rhetoric, such as "well-documented". There's "well-documented" reports of alien abductions.

If someone put it on the internet, it must be true. :study:

 

[Grunt76]

Show me ONE in vivo study showing cilantro actually removes heavy metals from the body.

Nah, YOU do some research and learn something for a change.

 

[Onslaught]

Nah, YOU do some research and learn something for a change.

That is either the best or worst cop-out I've ever witnessed. Certainly not doing much to prove your case.

 

[chronicpsb]

Nah, YOU do some research and learn something for a change.

http://www.ncahf.org/pp/amalgampp.html

FYI, the impetus for your self diagnosis and self treatment, here is the position of the National Council Against Health Fraud on dental amalgam, with numerous cited references and positions of multiple medical association and scientific journals.

Ok im done

 

[Teegunn]

Another short update:

Still feeling sore and achey all over. My sore throat is gone, however. But the lethargic and tired feeling won't go away. I have no idea what else could be causing these symptoms. I surely hope it is the detoxing I am doing and I also hope these symptoms go away soon because I am having a hard enough time getting a good workout in right now. I'll update again in a few days.

 

[Grunt76]

Teegunn, how much cilantro and EDTA are you taking? Personally, I was unable to train for 6 weeks, but I was taking more than 12 times the recommended dose of the cilantro... :blink:

 

[Teegunn]

Teegunn, how much cilantro and EDTA are you taking? Personally, I was unable to train for 6 weeks, but I was taking more than 12 times the recommended dose of the cilantro... :blink:

I am taking 35 drops of cilantro extract (1:5 ratio Herb Pharm brand) twice daily. And I am taking 500mg EDTA twice daily. I don't think that these are outrageous amounts of either product.
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[Grunt76]

Well the dosage for cilantron that I have seen is UP TO 20 drops ED... Not that you will hurt yourself with 70 drops, but you're certainly setting yourself up for feeling like crap, ESPECIALLY that you are using EDTA on top of it.

 

[Teegunn]

Well the dosage for cilantron that I have seen is UP TO 20 drops ED... Not that you will hurt yourself with 70 drops, but you're certainly setting yourself up for feeling like crap, ESPECIALLY that you are using EDTA on top of it.

Hmm. On the label for the cilantro it says to use 30 to 40 drops twice daily. I am using the recommended dosage of the EDTA too. I have actually felt a little better the last two days. And my skin has clear up considerably from what it was only a week ago or so. Maybe I will back off a little on the Cilantro for a few days and see what happens. I do still have some aches and my kneck and lower back are still stiff and sore. Thanks for the heads up!

 

[Teegunn]

I quit doing the detox 3 days ago. I was just feeling too run down/half sick most of the time and it was seriously effecting my workouts. So I was feeling better until this morning. I woke up with some kind of an allergic reaction. I have never had allergies in my life, so I don't know what could have trigged it. My wife did use a different type of laundry detergent starting the last few days, but that has never caused me problems before - and I have used the cheapest of the cheap laundry detergents before I was married. Anyway, I had these welts all over my body. During the day the welts seemed to dissapate, but instead now my whole body is swollen. Including my face. My feet and ankles ache. Is it possible that stopping the detox could have triggered this?? The only other thing I have done different the last couple of days is to wear the "strap" (by Fizogen). A buddy of mine has one and when I gave it a try I could actually "feel" a difference. I don't know if the strap could have triggered a reaction along with the detox. Anyway, I am not feeling so hot right now with all of the swelling. I hope it dissapates soon, or I may need to go see a doctor.

 

[Grunt76]

Dude, with the amount you were doing, you're NOT supposed to stop that cold. Get back on a small dose of cilantro RIGHT AWAY!!!!

I'll explain in the next post, you NEED to read this NOW.

 

[Grunt76]

Cilantro is a chelator. What it does is that it frees up the toxic metals from where it's stuck at. Now if you chelate too much toxic metals, you have a buildup in your system.

How much is too much? It's any amount greater than your body can eliminate. So if you use enough chelator to free up X amount of toxic metals and you can eliminate Y amount, you're OK as long as X is smaller than Y.

When X is greater than Y, the toxic metals build up in your bloodstream. That's not too too bad, because you're still taking the chelator, and that insures that what's freed up doesn't go into your cells for storage.

But if you cut it off all of a sudden, then your body goes into toxic overload. IMO that's exactly what you are undergoing. I suggest you use your full dose today, then half your previous dose for one week, then half that for another 2 weeks, then half that for another 2 weeks.

You were using huge amounts to begin with, man. Be careful. I'm no doctor and as it says in my signature, take everything I say with a grain of salt or 5.

 

[Spitdeath]

Well in my book when you swell up all over.... GO TO THE FUCKING HOSPITAL!!!!!:run:

 

[Grunt76]

Well in my book when you swell up all over.... GO TO THE FUCKING HOSPITAL!!!!!:run:

Hm, :goodpost:

 

[Teegunn]

Update: I am back to normal. The swelling and welts are gone (thank god). I was still able to work while have the reaction, but got some comments about the swelling.

Grunt - thanks for the info. I did start back up on a half dose of the Cilantro last night. Although the symptoms were pretty much gone by the time I started back up. I couldn't log onto the site yesterday, so I couldn't read your post. I don't know if the site was down for a while or what was going on.

Thanks for the advice, everyone.

 

[Teegunn]

Well in my book when you swell up all over.... GO TO THE FUCKING HOSPITAL!!!!!:run:

I would have been there this morning if the swelling hadn't dissapated.

 

[bioman]

I would also recommend adding vitamin E (high gamma id you can find it), selenium and MSM to your regimen. I've read some articles stating these help to shuttle metals out of the body but haven't uncovered anything concrete yet. Either way, they can't hurt.

 

[Teegunn]

I would also recommend adding vitamin E (high gamma id you can find it), selenium and MSM to your regimen. I've read some articles stating these help to shuttle metals out of the body but haven't uncovered anything concrete yet. Either way, they can't hurt.

Thanks for the advice, Bioman. I already take MSM (joints). I do use a good multi (Mega Men) that has Vit E in it, but I might have to supplement with some more. Vit E and Selenium are both fairly cheap, so I might as well give it a shot.

Thanks.

 

[Grunt76]

Glad you're doing better, Teegunn. Whew.

While I'm here, I'll comment on my own chelation therapy. I'm still running a low-ish dose of cilantro of 15-20 drops ED. I'm not having any detox symptoms but my mood and energy levels have been creeping up. Feeling sorta "lighter" overall, psychologically, if that conveys anything.

Still having big-zit problems although I did use Tribulus recently so that might be a contributing factor. I'm keeping up with the chelation for a good while still, since I am not experiencing any rough symptoms at all anymore.

For those who didn't read the whole thread, I did stop training because of the chelation, not being able to make any strenuous effort at all. I had expected and even planned on this being the case, as I had purposefully used a large dose of the chelating agent. I did back off gradually though, as I am still running approximately 1/6 th of my high dose bout of late-2005.

 

[BigVrunga]

So Grunt do you feel the Cilantro chelation has helped you out physcially overall, or is it too early to tell?

I eat a lot of tuna fish, its something Ive been giving some thought to for a while.

BV

 

[Grunt76]

I must say that the effects are subtle. Are there any? Yes. I was never ever sick before, I did get sick during, but I'm not getting sick after, I'm taking THAT for granted.

Because I did the Tribosten trial during a good part of January, the effect of that supplement do skew my feelings about the cilantro. Now that I am off all supplements, is a good time to assess where I stand with regards to the effects of the chelation.

One thing is for sure: it does work. No, I haven't done lab tests, but my skin does say, loud and clear, that something is getting eliminated. So, short answer=gimme a couple weeks more and I'll tell you much more accurately.

Do I reccomend it? For sure. How can you go wrong, especially if you take it easy. Sure it can be rough at first, but find a dose that works for you and all of a sudden you have what pretty much amounts to a heavy-metals toxicity insurance. I like it. Tuna tonight, no guilt.

 

[Aeternitatis]

Seeing as you guys have taken the naturopathic route, which I fully support, I think you should understand something fundamental about detoxing.

It is generally the rule that no one attempt a detox during the winter months. The body at this stage is in a natural "holding" state and any toxins liberated are going to be more reluctantly expelled. This might explain your sickness.

Naturopathy is just like any other medicine. One should consult a professional before undertaking something as powerful as chelation therapy/full body detox.

 

[Grunt76]

About 2.5 months in...

Thanks for the info, Aeternitatis. I didn't know that. I think I'll finish this vial of chelator and pick it back up in the springtime...

Still getting interesting zits. You know, the kind that sticks a half-inch out from your back and that you have to squeeze every day for a week until it finally subsides. I always have at least one of these since starting out, and usually it's 3-4. You can tell my skin is working overtime.

Besides that, Nothing new. Keeping on...

 

[Aeternitatis]

Re: About 2.5 months in...

Thanks for the info, Aeternitatis. I didn't know that. I think I'll finish this vial of chelator and pick it back up in the springtime...

Still getting interesting zits. You know, the kind that sticks a half-inch out from your back and that you have to squeeze every day for a week until it finally subsides. I always have at least one of these since starting out, and usually it's 3-4. You can tell my skin is working overtime.

Besides that, Nothing new. Keeping on...

Sure thing.

If you have a juicer, you may consider doing juice fasts once or twice per week with organic carrot juice (and beets if you want). This really helps cleanse out the digestive tract.

You may also consider adding an occasional high dose bentonite regimen. In case you don't know about it, basically it gets into all the little nooks and crannies and picks up toxins to be later crapped out. You might combine this with psyllium husk and carrot juice (not taken all at once however) to expedite excretion of released toxins.

I'm really glad to see this log and think it's great that there are others who understand the value of detoxing.

 

[Syr]

Good post, sorry I got an error and cant give u rep...

 

[Mach .78]

Re: About 2.5 months in...

Sure thing.

If you have a juicer, you may consider doing juice fasts once or twice per week with organic carrot juice (and beets if you want). This really helps cleanse out the digestive tract.

You may also consider adding an occasional high dose bentonite regimen. In case you don't know about it, basically it gets into all the little nooks and crannies and picks up toxins to be later crapped out. You might combine this with psyllium husk and carrot juice (not taken all at once however) to expedite excretion of released toxins.

I'm really glad to see this log and think it's great that there are others who understand the value of detoxing.

I bought bentonite from a place out in California, I think it was a quarry. 10 lbs. for 6 bucks. It's not pharmacutical grade but man does it do the trick. Dr. Schultzes Formula #1 and 2 is a pretty good combo for detox. Bentonite at 1 tablespoon can absorb 25 times its own weight. It's worth Googling and learning about folks.

 

[bioman]

Bentonite is also used in lateral drilling operations to lubricate the drill head and keep the drilled tunnel open.

That's off topic yet kinda ironic if you think about it.