Havoc

[Rocktown]

Ok maybe this was a newbie mistake.... I drank one cup of coffee this morning now my blood pressure is out of wack. Is it going to be like this the whole time or will my body adjust?

 

[Matthersby]

Ok maybe this was a newbie mistake.... I drank one cup of coffee this morning now my blood pressure is out of wack. Is it going to be like this the whole time or will my body adjust?

Define "out of whack"

 

[Rocktown]

It felt high. I was kind of on the verge of a head rush if that makes sense. But it seems to of planed out now. Maybe I just can't have coffee, or need to wait a couple days to have coffee. Which sucks because I usually drink most of a pot every morning. Any insight would be helpful.

 

[Matthersby]

It felt high. I was kind of on the verge of a head rush if that makes sense. But it seems to of planed out now. Maybe I just can't have coffee, or need to wait a couple days to have coffee. Which sucks because I usually drink most of a pot every morning. Any insight would be helpful.

Kudos for keeping an eye out for symptoms but you need numbers to know that it's in fact high. A baseline bp before cycle(including after coffee) would be good in the future. If you don't have access to a bp cuff, you may have to drop by a pharmacy waiting area every so often or buy one. You will know when its dangerously high(headaches, bloody noses, pulse pounding so hard its waking you up when resting, etc) but again numbers tell the story. Genetics do play a part here, and I encourage anyone who's actually tested this to chime in, but celery seed and Hawthorne berries are helpful, but the only bp-lowering aid other than pharmaceutical for me is niacin(in NADH form) and L-arginine AKG. Again, I can state they have worked far better but think of the variables during my trials using different compounds... Stress, caffeine intake, different compounds, water weight, thyroid function, the list could go on and on. Find what works for you but you won't have much to go off without baseline and on-cycle BP's.

 

[Rocktown]

My blood pressure is normally great. 123/80. Last week. I never thought to check it after coffee, because its never been an issue. I have a pharmacy 1.5 blocks from my house. Going to stop by next time I leave the house. Thanks.

 

[Matthersby]

My blood pressure is normally great. 123/80. Last week. I never thought to check it after coffee, because its never been an issue. I have a pharmacy 1.5 blocks from my house. Going to stop by next time I leave the house. Thanks.

It's going to be higher on cycle. I won't do anything over 160 systolic or 85 diastolic. I will take further action at that point. Mine is usually where yours is now that I monitor it closely.

 

[AnabolicHolic]

It's going to be higher on cycle. I won't do anything over 160 systolic or 85 diastolic. I will take further action at that point. Mine is usually where yours is now that I monitor it closely.

My parameters are a slight bit lower than yours....if I hit 150 and/or 85 I get concerned and pop another BP pill But I do get light headed with both low and high BP (mostly low BP), along with possible head rush effect.....the high BP is usually accompanied by a headache and some fuzzy long distance vision though (like the headache is making you squint to see clearly).

 

[snyderd1972]

Hawthorne berry and celery seed extract are very effective at controlling Bp. Hawthorne takes 1-2 weeks to take effect. Celery seed starts working pretty much right off the bat. Cel makes cycle assist which contains both ingredients as well as cholesterol, and prostate protection and its pretty affordable. I usually preload this 2 weeks before any cycle makes a huge difference IMO.

 

[AnabolicHolic]

I don't know why people say hawthorn takes a few weeks to take effect, every time I've used it I get drops in BP within the first few days right down to normal. I am using the extract, and its from a reputable company, so that might have something to do with it (maybe others are not using the extract or using some shyt brand).

 

[Rocktown]

Ok. Maybe I am over thinking this, but I need some advice on when to take my doses. I'm taking 30 a day. I take my first dose at 5:30 am (I walk out my door at 6 for work.) then I go to the gym at 5 so I take my next dose at 4:30 pm. Then I go to bed at 9 so I take my next dose at about 8. It seems like my doses aren't sprea out enough. Like unsaid maybe I'm over thinking it. Thank you for your advice.

 

[Matthersby]

Only thing I would change is taking pwo dose 1-2 hours prior which it sounds like you're just about doing depending on your commute time. I'd consider moving that dose to 40mg if your bp is under control...

 

[kaikara]

Taking it an hour before bed is a fun one. It's normally not recommended to take within 4 hours or so of bed time as it can interfere with sleep.

I always took mine at 6am, 12pm, 6pm. I realize it has an 8 hour half life, and there's 12 hours between the evening and the next morning dose, but you've still got plenty built up in your blood concentration to carry you through the night.

I also dosed it at 40mg. so 2,1,1 was my daily dosing (I workout at 12:30pm).

 

[Rocktown]

Only thing I would change is taking pwo dose 1-2 hours prior which it sounds like you're just about doing depending on your commute time. I'd consider moving that dose to 40mg if your bp is under control...

Thanks. Bp seems fine now. After I lifted it seems like everything went back to normal. Maybe it's all in my head. I appreciate all the advice.

 

[Rocktown]

Is it possible after just four days on I would already be feeling the effects in the gym? Yesterday I felt pretty unstoppable. Even if it was just placebo I'll pay good money for it. Lol. With this being my first cycle I was worried about how my body would react so I was planing on 4 weeks of 30 mg a day, but everything seems fine. In fact I feel great so I think I'm fixing to order another bottle and go 40 for either 5 or 6 weeks unless anybody with experience can give me a reason that I shouldn't.

 

[Matthersby]

Is it possible after just four days on I would already be feeling the effects in the gym? Yesterday I felt pretty unstoppable. Even if it was just placebo I'll pay good money for it. Lol. With this being my first cycle I was worried about how my body would react so I was planing on 4 weeks of 30 mg a day, but everything seems fine. In fact I feel great so I think I'm fixing to order another bottle and go 40 for either 5 or 6 weeks unless anybody with experience can give me a reason that I shouldn't.

No reason at all to not run 40 for 5 weeks. 6 weeks I would save for a later run and after you see how your liver enzymes are at 4-5 weeks on this cycle.(don't freak out they will be elevated, just post or pm results) And if you didn't see results quickly, pulsing orals wouldn't exist. I will argue till the day I die, you can notice/"feel" some orals faster than Test Prop.

 

[Rocktown]

No reason at all to not run 40 for 5 weeks. 6 weeks I would save for a later run and after you see how your liver enzymes are at 4-5 weeks on this cycle.(don't freak out they will be elevated, just post or pm results) And if you didn't see results quickly, pulsing orals wouldn't exist. I will argue till the day I die, you can notice/"feel" some orals faster than Test Prop.

Will do. My liver enzymes always run a little high. The doc says not to worry about it. That some people's levels are just a little high. How long after cycle should I wait to get my physical?

 

[Matthersby]

Will do. My liver enzymes always run a little high. The doc says not to worry about it. That some people's levels are just a little high. How long after cycle should I wait to get my physical?

Get it beginning week 4. Results by eow. Then see what you think about 1-2 more weeks, mainly for a CBC/CMP which will cover lipids, liver etc.. A few weeks after pct you could get a physical. I don't unless I cycle 10+ weeks.

 

[Rocktown]

I just say a physical because I get one free one every year with lab test from my insurance. I was going to use this freebie after this cycle anyways just to make sure I'm ok. So I should get two done? I guess I'll just have to pay my co-pay for one set. How do I go about telling my doc I need two sets of labs done?

 

[Matthersby]

Just get the physical after and run the epi 5 weeks max.

 

[Rocktown]

Just checked blood pressure 125/80. That was while I was walking around the store so I hadn't been at rest before taking it. So I am pretty content with it. The scale is showing I'm up 5 lbs. is that even possible this early in the game? I can't see it in the mirror, but I sure don't want to end up getting fat in the name of fitness if you know what I mean.

 

[AnabolicHolic]

Just checked blood pressure 125/80. That was while I was walking around the store so I hadn't been at rest before taking it. So I am pretty content with it. The scale is showing I'm up 5 lbs. is that even possible this early in the game? I can't see it in the mirror, but I sure don't want to end up getting fat in the name of fitness if you know what I mean.

125/75 is ideal for me....so that is damn close to perfect if you ask me. esp for being on epi.

 

[Rocktown]

I upped my dose to 40 mg a day. Everything seems to be going very well. A buddy just came back into town and gave me a bottle of mk-2866 (osterine). He said to add it in for the rest of my cycle. He's very experienced, but I don't know how safe he is. What do you guys think? He's had good results with it already.

 

[AnabolicHolic]

I upped my dose to 40 mg a day. Everything seems to be going very well. A buddy just came back into town and gave me a bottle of mk-2866 (osterine). He said to add it in for the rest of my cycle. He's very experienced, but I don't know how safe he is. What do you guys think? He's had good results with it already.

You should not use ostarine with the epi, save it for post-PCT. Ostarine is legit, but it may compete for the androgen receptor.....I've always used it solo. Its sort of a bad idea to use a SARM such as that with any anabolic, esp test.

 

[Rocktown]

So should I start it as soon as I'm done with my five weeks pct?

 

[AnabolicHolic]

So should I start it as soon as I'm done with my five weeks pct?

yeah sort of like a bridge or "inbetween cycles" thing....some take it ultra low dose in their actual PCT, but i would not suggest that for you. Better to use it after your PCT.

 

[Rocktown]

Great! Thanks.

 

[Rocktown]

Today is a rest day. It's hard to make myself take a rest day because I feel like I'm waiting my havoc, but obviously they are necessary. I added 10 lbs to my bench yesterday. So all in all I would say not bad for week #1

 

[Matthersby]

Today is a rest day. It's hard to make myself take a rest day because I feel like I'm waiting my havoc, but obviously they are necessary. I added 10 lbs to my bench yesterday. So all in all I would say not bad for week #1

Enjoy the ride. Love strength gains on Epi.

 

[traiford09]

^^ agreed could only push out 275 once before my cycle just did it 7 times today. About to start my fifth week Tuesday

 

[Rocktown]

^^ agreed could only push out 275 once before my cycle just did it 7 times today. About to start my fifth week Tuesday

That's great. I hope to make gains like that.

 

[Rocktown]

I have class on Mondays so I only have about 45 minutes to get a workout in at home. All I have is dumbells ( up to 90 lbs) and a bench at home. So I always just try to hit it with high intensity and make the best of my time. Today when I came up from the basement my wife was like "WOW you look jacked!" And then kept commenting about it until I left. So apparently. I'm getting some good pumps. So far I haven't had any side effects... Maybe some very mild back pumps if that. So far I'm loving this stuff.

 

[Matthersby]

I have class on Mondays so I only have about 45 minutes to get a workout in at home. All I have is dumbells ( up to 90 lbs) and a bench at home. So I always just try to hit it with high intensity an make the best of my time. Today when I came up from the basement my wife was like "WOW you look jacked!" And then kept commenting about it until I left. So paper entry I'm getting some good pumps. So far I haven't had any side effects... Maybe some very mild back pumps if that. So far I'm loving this stuff.

If I didn't respond so well to SD, it would be my very favorite oral.

 

[snyderd1972]

Epi kicks in fast for me especially the "on" feeling. 40mgs is where my joints get really dry and sore but seems to be my sweet spot as well. I usually start at 40 and run it throughout for 6 weeks. Dry joints and back pumps are the worst sides I get but I take a lot of support supps.

 

[Rocktown]

If these are back pumps they go very quickly. It might just be my back being tight form squats and dead lifts. It's not even enough to justify going to buy a bottle of taurine. The only support supps I'm using are guarding (for my organs) cycle assist ( for everything else) and fish oil. But I always take fish oil. I haven't even upped my intake on that.

 

[snyderd1972]

When and if the back pumps start for you you will know. Taurine is pretty effective but it seems like it takes a couple of days before that starts working.

 

[Rocktown]

It probably all in my head, but it seems like my nipples were very itchy for an hour or two this morning? No bumps or lumps. Not sore. Is this even possible with epi or is it just my mind playing trick on me. I thought the only time this was a concern was during pct.

 

[Matthersby]

It probably all in my head, but it seems like my nipples were very itchy for an hour or two this morning? No bumps or lumps. Not sore. Is this even possible with epi or is it just my mind playing trick on me. I thought the only time this was a concern was during pct.

You'll know.....

 

[Rocktown]

So I guess that means if it gets worse I should start my nova early?

 

[Rocktown]

I guess the itchy nips were all in my head. I went to do crossfit today, for the first time since starting epi. I didn't know how well I would do with all the cardio, but a friend wanted me to come for back squats. I smashed the squats and the actuall work out. No cramping or anything. I was however way more out of breath at the end. Like gasping and about to puke. But I still dominated. But I think I will just stick to lifting for now.

 

[Rocktown]

So I dead lifted today. At the end of my work out I did a burn out set with 225 just to gauge where I was at. I was able to lift it 21 times before my form starte to break down. That's up 4 reps since I started epi. Next week I'm going to try for a new max.

 

[Rocktown]

Well just when I thought I was going to make it through this with zero sides a few pimples showed up. Oh we'll small price to pay. I'm getting jacked. People are starting to ask me what I've been doing, and not just people at the gym when I'm all pumped. Well worth the pimples.

 

[Rocktown]

Hey guys the cycle is going great. I've games about 17 lbs. I'm going to say that 3 of that might be fat. That's ok. I've been packing away the calories to make sure the havoc has fuel to do it job. Also I've cut my cardio down drastically (I hate cardio and this seamed like a good excuse). I have about a week left. I went to the supplement store to get the rest of my pct. (I had my tamoxifen before I started) the owner was there. He is an old school big man. He suggested formexx black by asl (aromamaxx) as my test booster and a.i. I just bought some protein, so I could get input from the forum first. If this is good what would be a good protocol?

 

[Rocktown]

I start pct tomorrow. This has been great. Final count is 19 pounds up. I will need to trim up a little during but we are talking like 3 pounds which will be easy for me. Havoc has been good to me. The worst sides I had were some pimples. Well worth it. People are really noticing my gains. Everyone has said something about it. This was a great experience for my first cycle and I do plan on running it again. If any one has any last minute advice about pct I'm all ears. Other wise I'm sure you will hear from me again in a few months when I try what ever compound I run next.

 

[bel1]

hey did you up the dose or did it stay at 40?
hmm no joint problems?

 

[Rocktown]

I have ran 60 for the last week and a half. Maybe some very mild joint problems, but I really think its from upping the weight and intensity I've been training with. I had such a good run and felt great after the first two days. Considering I had basically no sides I would have thought this stuff was bunk or a scam, but the mirror is showing me that it worked.

 

[AnabolicHolic]

I also never have joint problems on epi, even at 75mg X 7 weeks....I attribute it to being part woman and having high estrogen #'s....but I'm not a doctor, I just relay my experiences. I once took 3 Erase pro per day for an extended period of time and got no joint issues either. thats a lot of erase btw....

 

[Rocktown]

I also never have joint problems on epi, even at 75mg X 7 weeks....I attribute it to being part woman and having high estrogen #'s....but I'm not a doctor, I just relay my experiences. I once took 3 Erase pro per day for an extended period of time and got no joint issues either. thats a lot of erase btw....

Hmmm... I've suspected that I might have high e #'s myself. Although I've never had it checked. I guess this is just possible one more symptom. My wife says I don't bacause my beard grows so quickly, but I'm not convinced. I do know that I have felt great on this cycle. Don't know if that means anything one way or the other.

 

[AnabolicHolic]

Hmmm... I've suspected that I might have high e #'s myself. Although I've never had it checked. I guess this is just possible one more symptom. My wife says I don't bacause my beard grows so quickly, but I'm not convinced. I do know that I have felt great on this cycle. Don't know if that means anything one way or the other.

Yeah your wife is giving you bro-science lol I am a hairy fck in my old age especially (not that bad, but hairy tendencies for sure)....and I have skyrocketed estrogen naturally and even more so on androgel. But the androgel also makes me hairier, esp where applied....since it raises DHT as well....so its possible to have high DHT and high estrogen at the same time, because I know for a fact I do by labs. But yeah, go get an estrogen test....its like under $100 for female hormones test. get prolactin and progesterone and E2 and total estrogen.

 

[bel1]

must be the result of messing with otc estro blockers

 

[Rocktown]

Ok so this morning when I cracked the seal on my tamoxifen I realized I didn't know what I was doing. I assumed I would just squirt I mL (20 mg) in my mouth and be done, but it didn't smell like anything I wanted to take straight. So I squirted it in a glass of water and drank it. Is this right? And also should I split the dose morning and evening or just all in the morning. I looked around but couldn't find any info. I guess I'm the only one this clueless. Thanks In advance for bailing me out again guys.