Frank Mir is looking ripped!

searl12

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Ya he looks ripped cause hes on fckn cycle....and just before he will come off and hope to not get drug tested...in fact I dont think heavy weights get drug tested.

my 2c, but also look at old pictures of Randy Couture, and GSP, CLEARLY CLEARLY ON SOMETHING!

they dont drug test everyone and I have some inside people who say 95% of these dudes use something and just PCT a few weeks before their matches.

Also even though Mir looks great...Brock is still WAY bigger and way meaner of a fckn dude, he gave away that last fight to Mir, he was Killing Mir and walked right into that submission.

I predict a good fight, but in the end Mir is gonna get slammed on his head
 
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Ya he looks ripped cause hes on fckn cycle....and just before he will come off and hope to not get drug tested...in fact I dont think heavy weights get drug tested.

my 2c, but also look at old pictures of Randy Couture, and GSP, CLEARLY CLEARLY ON SOMETHING!

they dont drug test everyone and I have some inside people who say 95% of these dudes use something and just PCT a few weeks before their matches.

Also even though Mir looks great...Brock is still WAY bigger and way meaner of a fckn dude, he gave away that last fight to Mir, he was Killing Mir and walked right into that submission.

I predict a good fight, but in the end Mir is gonna get slammed on his head
Swing and a miss. Most of the fighters, especially the main events/title fights, are always tested several weeks prior and immediately after the fight. Testing is not mandated by weight class; that's just a ridiculous statement.
 
searl12

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And you 100% positive every guy gets tested? that every guy in the UFC is clean?
did u see Chris Lebian s transformation? I dont need someone to tell me it was a natural transformation, and there are ways to get around fckn drug tests.

your one of those guys that thinks all pro athletes are natural too arent you?

you keep believing that dude, and up until not too long ago NONE OF THEM were tested, that im positive of.

On another note I have never gotten a response from you that has any fckn respect in it at all, I got an idea take your responses to what i say and fck yourself with them cause im tired of the way you continue to respond to me.
 
searl12

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one more thing, your the guy who argued with me for an hour saying there was no proof that steroids are bad for you. tell that to flex wheeler, steve stone , Don Long etc etc etc
 
Mulletsoldier

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Canadian Bill of Lefts, Section I, Paragraph 3(a)(iii).: Thou art under oath, with unwavering duty, regarding and aboot the wrapping of our Canadia's flag nigh ye unclothen cornhole and run ye aboot the streets at the resolve of any and all Georges Saint Pierre's fights, with undaunted expedience.

However, thus thou, ye must string ye nigh the flag of our Canadia, in the unjust outcome of a loss, and in ye thy circumstance of said lost, thou whilst henceforth, slain ye, the closest American, sellah.

[Personally, I think this article is whack, but Mullet is a bit of a patriot.]
I am a man of my country.

You're refusing to watch the final bout??
I believe you hadn't started posting here yet, but upon GSP's last loss I stopped watching MMA for about four months; I wouldn't even speak about it. If GSP lost to Alves, I would most likely record the final bout to watch several months down the road, when I became interested again.
 
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And you 100% positive every guy gets tested? that every guy in the UFC is clean?
did u see Chris Lebian s transformation? I dont need someone to tell me it was a natural transformation, and there are ways to get around fckn drug tests.

your one of those guys that thinks all pro athletes are natural too arent you?

you keep believing that dude, and up until not too long ago NONE OF THEM were tested, that im positive of.

On another note I have never gotten a response from you that has any fckn respect in it at all, I got an idea take your responses to what i say and fck yourself with them cause im tired of the way you continue to respond to me.
Steroid use is certainly prevalent in other major sports, so your point is well made; however, the NSAC regulates drug-testing much more stringently than other sports. I have included an addendum to the NSAC's current drug policies, which outlines more frequent testing, and the consequences of violating the terms thereof. Fighters are subject to pre/post-fight testing, testing on the suspicion of drug use, and additional, random tests throughout the year; further, if any of the conditions of these tests - timeframes and quality of sample - are not met, the fighter can face consequences. When it drug-use, I feel the UFC's athletes are much cleaner than other major sports.

Picture 1.jpg
 
Jessep76

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I am a man of my country.



I believe you hadn't started posting here yet, but upon GSP's last loss I stopped watching MMA for about four months; I wouldn't even speak about it. If GSP lost to Alves, I would most likely record the final bout to watch several months down the road, when I became interested again.
Haha! Point taken. I may join your efforts if some of my picks including GSP,..... I'm not gonna even say the L word. And I don't mean Lesbian.
 
searl12

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well put but can you explain to me then where some of these guys physiques come from? I mean some of these guys are so clearly juiced its laughable, again I havent followed the sport in a few years but...do you remember Matthughes physique when he was on top? well I certainly remember him not canging weight classes...but his physique deflated over a few months when drug testing became more of the norm, same for rich Frankland AND gsp.

So you know what maybe its not as bad as I stated, but it sure as hell was 2-3 years ago, and honestly it doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure it out, all you have to do is look at certain physiques and most times you can tell.

Anyways the idea that these guys dont know a way around the tests to me is laughable.

Im sure Radja is trying his best now to have me banned, and if thats your style you go right ahead, all I see from you is cynical, sarcastic posts. Just because someone has a different opinion than him.
 
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well put but can you explain to me then where some of these guys physiques come from? I mean some of these guys are so clearly juiced its laughable, again I havent followed the sport in a few years but...do you remember Matthughes physique when he was on top? well I certainly remember him not canging weight classes...but his physique deflated over a few months when drug testing became more of the norm, same for rich Frankland AND gsp.

So you know what maybe its not as bad as I stated, but it sure as hell was 2-3 years ago, and honestly it doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure it out, all you have to do is look at certain physiques and most times you can tell.

Anyways the idea that these guys dont know a way around the tests to me is laughable.

Im sure Radja is trying his best now to have me banned, and if thats your style you go right ahead, all I see from you is cynical, sarcastic posts. Just because someone has a different opinion than him.
Well, with all due respect, GSP's physique has very incrementally increased from fight-to-fight and year-to-year, with no real precipitous increases in mass; and, in fact, for the Fitch fight he down-sized to be more agile and quick. Georges is a master tactician, and this includes every minute detail down to his S&C and nutrition. I have no doubts in my mind he can manipulate his LBM without the use of banned substances. I cannot speak for some of the other fighters, and for them you very well may be right. To my knowledge, and from his comments on Canadian radio, GSP has been the ire of the NSAC due to ass-hats like BJ whining about his physique; to date, he has been absolutely clean.
 
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Haha! Point taken. I may join your efforts if some of my picks including GSP,..... I'm not gonna even say the L word. And I don't mean Lesbian.
Yeah, I don't want to jinx anything. I am not kidding when I say I stopped watching. If you look in the MMA forum from April '07 to about September '07, you will notice my posting is little-to-none, haha.
 
Jessep76

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Bj could use a cycle


Mir also has had plenty of time to build muscle since he "pulled that knee" or whatever. Maybe it was something else. None the less he was probably praying for some reason to take time and bulk.
 

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Bj could use a cycle


Mir also has had plenty of time to build muscle since he "pulled that knee" or whatever. Maybe it was something else. None the less he was probably praying for some reason to take time and bulk.

Like it or not....I think GSP looks juiced and I am Canadian. He just might be a freak of nature but he sure does have nips that look juiced.
 
searl12

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im a canuck too and I love GSP, WITHOUT A DOUBT at some point in the year all these guys use something either to cut, to gain strength or to bulk.

Why wouldnt they? million$ contracts, endorsements.... its so obvious to me like I said its laughable.
 
Mulletsoldier

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Like it or not....I think GSP looks juiced and I am Canadian. He just might be a freak of nature but he sure does have nips that look juiced.
im a canuck too and I love GSP, WITHOUT A DOUBT at some point in the year all these guys use something either to cut, to gain strength or to bulk.

Why wouldnt they? million$ contracts, endorsements.... its so obvious to me like I said its laughable.
Maybe, but probably not. We see guys getting nabbed for illegitimate false-positives in their urinalysis, so we would certainly see a true test. As I said, the NSAC can test an approved fighter based on suspicion, which is not a privilege any of the major sports have. I can see what you two are saying, but: when you break it down logically, and practically, it is probably not the case for active fighters. They are tested pre-fight, post-fight, and randomly. So where does that leave them to cycle? The interim period between a fight, maybe; however, given the half-life of the compounds they would be using [injectables] and the half-lives of auxillary compounds and the like, this does not leave them much time. The timelines simply do not match-up. This is not the one-time "random" testing of the NFL where the teams are alerted ahead of time, and they are never tested again.
 
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The weigh-ins for those who missed them.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4jQ4bLAPgI"]YouTube - UFC 100 Weigh-Ins - Brock Lesnar vs Frank Mir - July 10, 2009[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HM1VnrqbERQ"]YouTube - UFC 100 Weigh-Ins - Georges St-Pierre vs Thiago Alves - July 10, 2009[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pciv8kAMYM"]YouTube - UFC 100 Weigh-Ins - Dan Henderson vs Michael Bisping - July 10, 2009[/ame]
 
bla55

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Maybe, but probably not. We see guys getting nabbed for illegitimate false-positives in their urinalysis, so we would certainly see a true test. As I said, the NSAC can test an approved fighter based on suspicion, which is not a privilege any of the major sports have. I can see what you two are saying, but: when you break it down logically, and practically, it is probably not the case for active fighters. They are tested pre-fight, post-fight, and randomly. So where does that leave them to cycle? The interim period between a fight, maybe; however, given the half-life of the compounds they would be using [injectables] and the half-lives of auxillary compounds and the like, this does not leave them much time. The timelines simply do not match-up. This is not the one-time "random" testing of the NFL where the teams are alerted ahead of time, and they are never tested again.
You may believe that, and sometimes I question it myself as well. But the thing is, either they do a great job to not be discovered or it doesn't happen, as they are tested very very oftenly.

Let's not forget, about thousands of people try to make it in this sport, and only a very few select individuals are able to make it. The ones that are able to make it most likely are the ones more suitable to this (IE: best chin, which is pretty much untrainable, and best suitable to maintain a very good phisique).

I may be hiting a miss on this one, but look at Robdog when he competed. He looked like he was a freaking oversized LHW. Did I think he was on a major series of roids? Yes I do. But his phisique is just able to support that. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think he did steroids to achieve such condition (rodja will be able to clarify this one better since he's in his corner). And if so, there's your example, someone who looks like he's on a load of steroids but in fact isn't.
 
VolcomX311

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LOL, man, Brock looked like he wanted to swing on Mir right then. They both look good though. I think this is the best I've seen Frank and Brock looked slightly leaner then usual.
 
Mulletsoldier

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You may believe that, and sometimes I question it myself as well. But the thing is, either they do a great job to not be discovered or it doesn't happen, as they are tested very very oftenly.

Let's not forget, about thousands of people try to make it in this sport, and only a very few select individuals are able to make it. The ones that are able to make it most likely are the ones more suitable to this (IE: best chin, which is pretty much untrainable, and best suitable to maintain a very good phisique).

I may be hiting a miss on this one, but look at Robdog when he competed. He looked like he was a freaking oversized LHW. Did I think he was on a major series of roids? Yes I do. But his phisique is just able to support that. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think he did steroids to achieve such condition (rodja will be able to clarify this one better since he's in his corner). And if so, there's your example, someone who looks like he's on a load of steroids but in fact isn't.
Oh definitely. Here is the thing: I am not saying it never happens, but merely it is harder than in other sports. As per BJ's whiney request, Georges was tested [I believe] three times in-and-around that fight. (GSP was on a French-Canadian talk-show, talking about BJ's steroid allegations.) If it was prevalent as some make it seem, we would hear more about it.

As well, I agree with your 1/1000 making it analysis, but consider it differently: from my perspective, that means many of these guys are 1/1000 athletes. What this means is that, for all intents and purposes, they have body frames, skeletal-muscular systems and nervous systems far beyond the capacity of the average joe - i.e., like a Koschek, they need little in the way of weight training to obtain those physiques.
 
searl12

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I am very impressed with Mirs conditioning....I have never ever seen him look that good, either he's trained is butt off or he s using the Clear., lol Jk they both look huge and mean don' t they, imagine making the mistake at a bar of pssing Mir off not knowing what type of machine he was.
 
Mulletsoldier

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I am very impressed with Mirs conditioning....I have never ever seen him look that good, either he's trained is butt off or he s using the Clear., lol Jk they both look huge and mean don' t they, imagine making the mistake at a bar of pssing Mir off not knowing what type of machine he was.
Definitely agree here; Mir looked very conditioned.
 
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Is it wrong for me to be inspiring to look like Mir? lol
Yes


I'm just kidding, he did look really good and for a guy that heavy, it's really impressive. Nonetheless, I hope Brock wins.
 

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HELLZ TO THA YES!!!!
That was a beatdown. Damn. Can't say that I'm happy, not very disappointed either. Don't really know how I feel yet actually lol.

As for HENDO...HELLZ TO THA YES!!! That was gorgeous. The extra knock to the head while Bisping was already KTFO on the ground was a little "there ya go" for all the trash talking during the show.
 
Silver3CSRT8

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Dude...Hendo completely punking the loud mouth Brit made my night (especially the extra punch/elbow after the KO) and then the GSP fight was great (even though I picked Alves). However, making my buddies eat crow when Brock dominated Mir was priceless. They still don't give him the credit he deserves for the mass/power that he has. They will come around because he will have the belt for a long while!
 
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That was a beatdown. Damn. Can't say that I'm happy, not very disappointed either. Don't really know how I feel yet actually lol.

As for HENDO...HELLZ TO THA YES!!! That was gorgeous. The extra knock to the head while Bisping was already KTFO on the ground was a little "there ya go" for all the trash talking during the show.
Yes, Hendo's super man ground strike was priceless. He knew Bisbing was off in never never land the moment Bisbing dropped, but, rules are rules, you have to finish out the fight until the ref says stop, even if Bisbing was off being Peter Pan somewhere.
 
VolcomX311

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Dude...Hendo completely punking the loud mouth Brit made my night (especially the extra punch/elbow after the KO) and then the GSP fight was great (even though I picked Alves). However, making my buddies eat crow when Brock dominated Mir was priceless. They still don't give him the credit he deserves for the mass/power that he has. They will come around because he will have the belt for a long while!
You don't even know. I was the only one pulling for Brock in my circle, and that finish was so satisfying. However, mad, mad respects to Mir for his class and humility in defeat. I'll admit I may have misjudged his douche'ness, based on his post fight class. Nonetheless, my boy got it and sealed it.

Speaking of which, I don't know if I've ever seen a fighter genuinely hate another fighter as much as Brock hated Mir. Damn the pre fight dramatics, Brock was in the fight with a real to life personal vendetta, where a victory didn't even fully alleviate that hate.

As far as GSP, if Alves was his best competition and GSP still had his way with TD's at will and leaving the fight utterly unscathed apart from heavy breathing. I may deem GSP with the "Fedor of the UFC welter weight division" award. He is head & shoulders above his competition. That said, Alves was a true warrior until the end. His heart & tenacity was undeniably admirable.

Akiyama was a bit disappointing. I built him up like I built I Mirko during his UFC debut to my friends and he got an arguably, undeserved win.
 
Jessep76

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that guy [Brock] is missing some marbles. He makes Clay Guida look calm and composed. You see all that saliva come out his mouth as he's screaming into the camera?? With a card that big you can't have all your favs win :(
 
Mulletsoldier

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I thought it was refreshing, actually - the way Brock screamed at Mir, that is. I get so tired of the daytime-talk show rivalries, that are always "squashed" with a hug; Lesnar truly hated Mir, and he told him that.

As for GSP, he would have to fight both Kampmann and Swick as the same time to make that fight competitive and/or entertaining. As I said all along the pre-fight build-up, Jon Fitch, and not Thiago Alves, was GSP's toughest competition - as in, he at least had a few marks after that fight. Thiago was dangerous, but much less of a comparative threat all along. When it comes down to it, people just love to get behind a striker, especially when UFC is passing around the hype doobie.
 
SpargelJanusz

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All in all, Brock certainly has not won fans tonight, I believe (or last night). But I cannot see anyone in the UFC HW division beating him at the moment, he has a scary combo of speed and of course brute strength. And he's too smart to try things that look good / get more thumbs up from fans, but would put him at a disadvantage.

I found it impressive how he basically ate Mir's knee, Mir must have wondered "Does this guy feel pain at all?"

A match made in heaven would be, of course, Fedor vs Brock - if Dana could stop trashtalking for a while and just arrange for this one fight, it'd be any MMA fans dream come true.
 
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I really want to see who is the better huge muscled up heavy weight now (Brock or Shane Carwin). I think Brock has better athleticism and speed, but Carwin is a KO artist with massive power and strength. Besides him I don't think any other heavies have a chance. I try to back my stance that Brock deserved the shot based on how weak the UFC Heavy weight division was at the time Brock came in. Arloski and Tim Silvia were gone. Randy was "retired". That is like the boxing heavyweight division when Tyson went to jail. :)

I think the GSP domination set up his fight with Anderson Silva. That will be a sweet fight unless the spider can turn it into a boring fight like his last 2.
 
swole210

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I still don't like Brock ! I'm sorry, not to take anything away from his freak nature, but the "Brock Mad....Brock throw man down....Brock hold man down...Brock smashy smashy man with right hand!!!!" thing doesn't impress me at all. But thats just me, and I'm no body so who cares. I just hate to see a champion who can be the champ just by really out sizeing and out weighing everyone, laying on them and smashy smash with right hand! But oh well.
 
searl12

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Dude...Hendo completely punking the loud mouth Brit made my night (especially the extra punch/elbow after the KO) and then the GSP fight was great (even though I picked Alves). However, making my buddies eat crow when Brock dominated Mir was priceless. They still don't give him the credit he deserves for the mass/power that he has. They will come around because he will have the belt for a long while!
Silver my man...how in the hell could you or anyone in the frckn world have picked Alves over GSP?

Guy still. ... STILL doesnt get the respect he deserves, I wonder if he wasnt french canadian if more of you yanks would like him and respect him, cause guess what? noone fckn can touch the guy , stand near him, breath near him or change in the same locker room as him.

And in case none of you guys know most Canadian"s arent french, most look just like Americans, dress, etc..etc etc, and most Canadian' s dont even like our French Province.

And if I was to have bet last night id of bet every penny i had on Lesner, one more guy who killed, and I mean killed his opponent, and wasnt getting any respct or votes of confidence.
 
VolcomX311

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I still don't like Brock ! I'm sorry, not to take anything away from his freak nature, but the "Brock Mad....Brock throw man down....Brock hold man down...Brock smashy smashy man with right hand!!!!" thing doesn't impress me at all. But thats just me, and I'm no body so who cares. I just hate to see a champion who can be the champ just by really out sizeing and out weighing everyone, laying on them and smashy smash with right hand! But oh well.
I hear what you're saying, but size & brute strength alone won't get you too far if you don't have some talent behind it. Bop Sapp is the perfect example of a solely "me smash," type of fighter. At 320lbs, Bob outweighs and may even out strength, in terms of ability to lift weights, Brock Lesnar, and Bob Sapp is horrendous. He gets beat all the time by people 60-100lbs lighter then he is.

All that said, people dislike whoever they dislike, so I'm not trying to win you over or win an argument. It's all good, but if you want to get really technical & down to the nitty gritty, Brock's game plan was no different then GSP's. Take down, dominate & control from the top, neutralize the opponent on the ground and do damage. Apart from GSP's obvious superior class in execution, GSP's game plan was no different from Brock's at its roots & premise. TD, control, neutralize and damage. It's the traditional wrestler/striker combo. Again, if you want to see a one-dimensional, all strength & size fighter, just look at Bob Sapp, who outweighs Brock by 40lbs and he gets stopped all the time.
 
VolcomX311

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Silver my man...how in the hell could you or anyone in the frckn world have picked Alves over GSP?

Guy still. ... STILL doesnt get the respect he deserves, I wonder if he wasnt french canadian if more of you yanks would like him and respect him, cause guess what? noone fckn can touch the guy , stand near him, breath near him or change in the same locker room as him.

And in case none of you guys know most Canadian"s arent french, most look just like Americans, dress, etc..etc etc, and most Canadian' s dont even like our French Province.

And if I was to have bet last night id of bet every penny i had on Lesner, one more guy who killed, and I mean killed his opponent, and wasnt getting any respct or votes of confidence.
You don't think GSP gets the respect he deserves? I'm pretty certain the mass majority of all UFC fans anywhere, are in consensus that GSP or Anderson Silva are the worlds pound for pound. It's not like he was in the back light, like a pre Rashad Evans, Lyoto Machida.

I was rooting for Alves, but my pick was GSP. I liked both fighters, but in this case, I was just rooting for the under dog. However, I was just as excited when GSP won, it just lacked the dramatics if Alves had won. As I mentioned before, I think GSP has earned the Fedor Award at welter weight.
 
VolcomX311

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All in all, Brock certainly has not won fans tonight, I believe (or last night).
Yeah, as soon as I saw Brock go up to Mir "AFTER" he beat him and instead of the traditional, hug, hand shake, the drama is over approach, Brock was still as angry as ever, I thought, "oh no, don't give him the mic, he's still too emotional and he might say something stupid." However, it wasn't as bad as it could have been. Incredible props to Mir for his class & humility in defeat, I was a bit surprised by it.

I found it impressive how he basically ate Mir's knee, Mir must have wondered "Does this guy feel pain at all?"
Seriously, but that was one of Mir's fatal mistakes (arguably). Maybe Brock would have taken him down eventually, but at that moment, Mir put himself on his back from that quasi-jumping knee attempt.

A match made in heaven would be, of course, Fedor vs Brock - if Dana could stop trashtalking for a while and just arrange for this one fight, it'd be any MMA fans dream come true.
Though it would be interesting, Brock would only win by sheer luck of a flailing KO, which I couldn't see happening. I would have to root for Fedor in this case, not just because I'm a bigger Fedor fan, but its an exercise in reason.

All in all, this is what I have to say about Brock's Victory.
 
searl12

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In my opinion its rather easy to be classy in defeat....if your not you will forever be dubbed a sore loser I actually think its easier than most people think, he got beat plain and simple, and yes GSP gets some respect but I truly believe if he wasnt a french Canadian he would be one Of the USA s biggest celebrities.
 
VolcomX311

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yes GSP gets some respect but I truly believe if he wasnt a french Canadian he would be one Of the USA s biggest celebrities.
I'm not saying this to be confrontational or anything like that, but the "One of USA's biggest celebrities" in regards to GSP, is a ridiculous statement. GSP's or any athlete's celebrity is "usually" based more on the actual popularity of the sport, as oppose to the popularity of the individual. As big as The UFC is, it has a long ways to go before UFC athletes gain greater celebrity then Football, Baseball and Basketball players.

I don't think GSP being French-Canadian has ANYTHING to do with a lack of U.S. appreciation for him (in your opinion), it's all relative to the popularity of the sport and MMA is not a top sport here. To be a TOP ATHLETE, you'll need to beat out Kobe Bryant, Dwayne Wade, Lebron James... to name a few, and that's without getting into the Football and baseball celebrities.

The biggest international athlete to ever touch American sole was probably David Beckham, but that's because he moved here and even then, he was only talked about until we realized we don't care for soccer here.

Biggest athlete in the U.S.? That's ridiculous, as big as Chuck Lidell was and Randy Couture was, you weren't going to hear their names called in the same sentence as Kobe Bryant, Tiger Woods, Manny Ramirez or Peyton Manning, not even close. It's a matter of the popularity of the sport, not some weird anti French-Canadian argument your making. Holy cow that's ridiculous.
 
Jessep76

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ME BROCK DON'T KNOW HOW TO EAT IN FANCY RESTAURANT, ME BROCK SMASH!
 
Silver3CSRT8

Silver3CSRT8

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Silver my man...how in the hell could you or anyone in the frckn world have picked Alves over GSP?
I actually knew that GSP would win, but I was kinda rooting for the underdog. GSP is greatness, but I like a shake up every know in then. I am actually hoping someone can beat Anderson Silva in the near future, I was happy when Iceman finally lost and I was very happy when Matt Hughes lost his title. I like everything about GSPs game, but he does talk funny. LOL
:usa:
 
searl12

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I actually knew that GSP would win, but I was kinda rooting for the underdog. GSP is greatness, but I like a shake up every know in then. I am actually hoping someone can beat Anderson Silva in the near future, I was happy when Iceman finally lost and I was very happy when Matt Hughes lost his title. I like everything about GSPs game, but he does talk funny. LOL
:usa:
Ever hear him say " My objective is to destroy Matt Serra" Hilarious, and our french province is a strange place indeed, you can drink on the streets and only need to be 18 to drink in a bar. I would have loved to have been In Montreal for the GSP fight it would have been the craziest place on the planet that night.
 
Mulletsoldier

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I'm not saying this to be confrontational or anything like that, but the "One of USA's biggest celebrities" in regards to GSP, is a ridiculous statement. GSP's or any athlete's celebrity is "usually" based more on the actual popularity of the sport, as oppose to the popularity of the individual. As big as The UFC is, it has a long ways to go before UFC athletes gain greater celebrity then Football, Baseball and Basketball players.

I don't think GSP being French-Canadian has ANYTHING to do with a lack of U.S. appreciation for him (in your opinion), it's all relative to the popularity of the sport and MMA is not a top sport here. To be a TOP ATHLETE, you'll need to beat out Kobe Bryant, Dwayne Wade, Lebron James... to name a few, and that's without getting into the Football and baseball celebrities.

The biggest international athlete to ever touch American sole was probably David Beckham, but that's because he moved here and even then, he was only talked about until we realized we don't care for soccer here.

Biggest athlete in the U.S.? That's ridiculous, as big as Chuck Lidell was and Randy Couture was, you weren't going to hear their names called in the same sentence as Kobe Bryant, Tiger Woods, Manny Ramirez or Peyton Manning, not even close. It's a matter of the popularity of the sport, not some weird anti French-Canadian argument your making. Holy cow that's ridiculous.
I feel the import of sear's argument is this: if GSP were an American, he would receive both more repute and due respect. In my estimation, this tends to be true, both in the context of MMA, and other sports. To say GSP does not receive more adoration due to an anti-French sentiment is, as you said, certainly overstated; however, to say he receives less adoration due to being a non-American is nothing more or less than a truth backed by a certain consistency in the sports-historic record.

For an instantiation of this, one need look no further than the Akiyama/Belcher fight: you had, for an appreciable period, the crowd chanting "U-S-A" whenever Belcher would mount an offense. The reason, of course, was not necessarily that the crowed preferred "Belcher" over "Akiyama"; but rather, that Belcher was an American, and Akiyama was not. The fact that Akiyama is Asian and Belcher is American is entirely incidental to the outcome of the fight, and even further secondary to the manner in which that outcome is reached, but Americans tend to ignore this in the face of outward patriotism; as a result, the fighters which they tend to support and/or glamorize and/or adore is often implicitly, if not explicitly, based on their nationality.

As well, one has to understand my perspective is a relative one, not an absolute one - that is, fame relative to achievement. Put otherwise: given the exact same set of achievements, GSP's fame, reputation, and status as a fighter would all be heightened had he been born an American. For example, 90% of Americans who knew what MMA was felt Chuck Liddell was not only the best 205'er in the world, but the best P4P fighter in the world. Now, this is due in part to a confluence of factors, his nationality only being one of them; obviously, though, his status as an American and the lack of obscurity resultant thereof propelled him to these heights. To say that, all things equal, Americans prefer Americans to non-Americans, is just a fact.
 

bigwhiteguy29

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belcher won that fight. those leg kicks were nasty


now i really dont like brock at all. i hope someone beats him soon.
 
searl12

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Fedor will once Dana signs him, but Lesner will not be a push over for anyone! he is arguably the baddest dude there is right now opposed to Fedor. The UFC is already working on this fight. I guarantee it.
 
VolcomX311

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I feel the import of sear's argument is this: if GSP were an American, he would receive both more repute and due respect. In my estimation, this tends to be true, both in the context of MMA, and other sports. To say GSP does not receive more adoration due to an anti-French sentiment is, as you said, certainly overstated; however, to say he receives less adoration due to being a non-American is nothing more or less than a truth backed by a certain consistency in the sports-historic record.

For an instantiation of this, one need look no further than the Akiyama/Belcher fight: you had, for an appreciable period, the crowd chanting "U-S-A" whenever Belcher would mount an offense. The reason, of course, was not necessarily that the crowed preferred "Belcher" over "Akiyama"; but rather, that Belcher was an American, and Akiyama was not. The fact that Akiyama is Asian and Belcher is American is entirely incidental to the outcome of the fight, and even further secondary to the manner in which that outcome is reached, but Americans tend to ignore this in the face of outward patriotism; as a result, the fighters which they tend to support and/or glamorize and/or adore is often implicitly, if not explicitly, based on their nationality.

As well, one has to understand my perspective is a relative one, not an absolute one - that is, fame relative to achievement. Put otherwise: given the exact same set of achievements, GSP's fame, reputation, and status as a fighter would all be heightened had he been born an American. For example, 90% of Americans who knew what MMA was felt Chuck Liddell was not only the best 205'er in the world, but the best P4P fighter in the world. Now, this is due in part to a confluence of factors, his nationality only being one of them; obviously, though, his status as an American and the lack of obscurity resultant thereof propelled him to these heights. To say that, all things equal, Americans prefer Americans to non-Americans, is just a fact.
I hear what you're saying and I think the difference in opinion may be derived in the technicality in the interpretation of Sear's statement.

Firstly, true, Americans have an innate preference for American fighters (in mass), such as the Akiyama vs Welch example you brought up. Two relatively unknown fighters (with the exception of Jas' poster of Akiyama in his room) and the bias went to Welch with the chants of U.S.A. However, a heavy, heavy variable is the fact that neither fighters were known or established in the mainstream UFC fan base, and it would be completely odd & unnatural if the crowd would have chanted O-ss-a-k-a, O-ss-a-k-a. I'll give you the innate preference, premise. However, GSP is established and well known, and I don't know if I can yet sign off on innate preferences, having a notable influence on how much respect GSP receives, as an established celebrity.

Secondly, and this is anecdotal, so the validity of this example is of course questionable. Anyone I've ever held an MMA conversation with, friends and strangers alike, either have GSP described as the top dog of his division, pound for pound in the UFC, unstoppable or some form of utter reverence. I don't know how our media portrays him, but as far as "the people," I've yet to meet someone who doesn't have GSP placed in the top 3 of deadliest and most dominant fighters. I consider that plenty of reputation and respect. However, as I mentioned, this is anecdotal to my experience and my surroundings.

Thirdly, your argument that perhaps if GSP was American born, then he would be a bigger MMA star to American fans. I'll concede.

Lastly, the thesis, if it were, of my rebuttal, was I found it ridiculous that GSP would be named one of the best athletes in America, period (were he not French-Canadian). I didn't take his statement as indicating one of America's top athletes in the scope of MMA. His statement was not seemingly limited to MMA, but an encompassing statement of top athletes in America, to which I say, nah bru. MMA is too far behind the mainstream sports of basketball, football, and baseball to have "any" MMA'er to share the lime light to the same effect as a Kobe Bryant, Shaquil O'niel or Terrel Owens. I'll concede that perhaps the whole French-Canadian thing "may" effect his reputation with American UFC fans ("may"), but as far as comparing GSP's celebrity against Kobe Bryant, Lebron James, Peyton Manning, or any other "mainstream" sport, my point was that his supposed lack of reputation in comparison to said celebrity athletes, had much more to do with the relative popularity of the sport, as oppose to his nationality.

As mentioned previously, as popular as Chuck Lidell was and the American Hero Randy Couture was, they paled like Michael Jackson's complection in comparison to a Tiger Woods, Barry Bonds, Brett Favre... in regards to the concept of "One of America's top athletes." :duel:

Honestly, it's not that big of a deal to me, I just felt like arguing with you :lol:
 
VolcomX311

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belcher won that fight. those leg kicks were nasty
I tend to agree with you on this one and I was rooting for Akiyama 100%.

now i really dont like brock at all. i hope someone beats him soon.
Hate the game.

I'm just kidding, it's understandable, I think the entire arena outside of his corner was booing him, but of course, I disagree. I'm hoping he improves MMA wise and maintains an Iron Fist of dominance.
 
VolcomX311

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Fedor will once Dana signs him, but Lesner will not be a push over for anyone! he is arguably the baddest dude there is right now opposed to Fedor. The UFC is already working on this fight. I guarantee it.
The only reason I wouldn't want this fight to happen, is because I don't want to see Lesnar get beat yet. However, I think this concept fight will be incredibly unlikely. Dana won't bend the rules of his contracts and Fedor is not at all a fan of the limitations of a UFC contract.
 
brk_nemesis

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The only reason I wouldn't want this fight to happen, is because I don't want to see Lesnar get beat yet. However, I think this concept fight will be incredibly unlikely. Dana won't bend the rules of his contracts and Fedor is not at all a fan of the limitations of a UFC contract.
Yea but Fedor's contract with Affliction ends with his next fight(Barnett). So who ever offers up the most $$$ will get him. I dont think the "rules" for the Affliction contract are much different from the UFC's. I don't think Dana expected a end of the fight "fuk you" to everybody from Brock either so,..... w/e will get Dana the most money on PPV is what Dana will do. who knows....
 

bigwhiteguy29

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yeah i acually would not care if lesner won a couple more then lost. yeah he did act like an idiot but he did have a lot on the line and trained hard. he did go a lil over board tho. i knew he would win like that i jsut thought it would have been quicker but he took his time in the first.
 

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