Frank Mir is looking ripped!

[Jessep76]

NO!! EVEN BETTER.

Dana will have Fedor live in the house with other heavy weights on next season's TUF!!
=))

 

[AE14]

I would really like to see Brock win even though I like Mir a lot! Then I want to see Shane Carwin beat Cain and then I want to see Brock vs Shane. Imagine those 2 big mofos square off.

I like Carwin as well, however I think Cain beats him. I do think Cain will have a very difficult time with Lesnar though

 

[Tomahawk88]

I think the best chance we have at seeing Fedor in the UFC is if all these once every so often fight promotions(who pay fighters a crap load of money) go under otherwise it doesn't seem reasonable to think Fedor is going to say no to 1 fight contracts worth more and no limitations. Plus why would Dana want Fedor for 1 fight? WHEN Fedor wins and gets the common UFC fans attention then they will watch the next fight promotion Fedor is a part of. Just a thought.

 

[Mulletsoldier]

I agree with everything, save for the very last part. At this point, "the" UFC is a brand, which entails certain advantages; namely, that the assets that make up your brand (fighters) are expendable, while the brand is ultimate. The NBA kept going without Jordan, the NHL kept going without Gretzky, the NFL lived on after Montana, and so on. What differentiates the UFC from other promotions is that, for the most part, people watch the UFC, rather than an individual fighter within it; as a result, Fee-yay-dor could come and go with little consequence, unfortunately.

 

[Tomahawk88]

I do agree with the whole "the sport is bigger than one athlete" idea but do you seriously think Dana wants to risk having his fans fall in love with another fighter then that fighter goes on to another promotion after destroying 1 of Dana's fighters? Dana seems to have a decent idea of how things will play out.
Plus it is one thing for an asset to retire its another thing for an asset to go to another brand.

 

[Mulletsoldier]

I do agree with the whole "the sport is bigger than one athlete" idea but do you seriously think Dana wants to risk having his fans fall in love with another fighter then that fighter goes on to another promotion after destroying 1 of Dana's fighters? Dana seems to have a decent idea of how things will play out.
Plus it is one thing for an asset to retire its another thing for an asset to go to another brand.

I see your point, but again I have to disagree. If your premise held true, then the UFC would have suffered in the wide-range of circumstances that fighters left for other organizations. Unfortunately, the casual, domestic fan is highly unfamiliar with Fedor, and would likely be un-phased by a quick departure on his part.

You have to understand that 95% of the UFC's audience is not watching "a" fighter, they are watching "the" UFC; in reality, the fighters that comprise the UFC at any given time are somewhat incidental to the entire activity. The UFC is now a functioning league, and therefore any one fighter's impact at any given time can be chalked up as secondary to the motion of the league as a whole.

Fedor would come in, destroy his competition, leave, and most people would forget he existed in due time. The Ferittas and Dana White are nothing if not phenomenal marketers, and "this thing" that Dana incessantly ****ing refers to ad nauseum is now a brand that is primary to the fighters. Again, I say this not endorsing it, as it is really unfortunate; however, it's the truth.

 

[VolcomX311]

I'm sure this has already been discussed elsewhere, but since we're on the subject of the big boys, what do you think of Bobby Lashley? I don't have a cultured of an eye as the most of you for observing the technicalities of a great execution, but he seems really explosive with those single leg TD's, and he hits it with intent. His punches also look like they have power behind them and not just strength.

 

[Mulletsoldier]

I think the comparisons between Brock and Lashley are bound to emerge, but I see a fundamental difference between them at this point: refinement. From my perspective, Brock's overall MMA game seems much more refined than Lashley's, particularly his stance, angles and execution in the stand-up. I also never noted what Jas said, which was that Lashley is nowhere near the natural giant that Brock is: he wrestled at a much lighter weight in University, and is mostly excess muscle. I think his management his handling him great, however, and I would expect to see him against an Arlovski or Buenetello soon.

 

[VolcomX311]

I think the comparisons between Brock and Lashley are bound to emerge, but I see a fundamental difference between them at this point: refinement. From my perspective, Brock's overall MMA game seems much more refined than Lashley's, particularly his stance, angles and execution in the stand-up. I also never noted what Jas said, which was that Lashley is nowhere near the natural giant that Brock is: he wrestled at a much lighter weight in University, and is mostly excess muscle. I think his management his handling him great, however, and I would expect to see him against an Arlovski or Buenetello soon.

Ahhhh... a naturally larger & heavier bone structure has a different set of benefits then having that size primarily through muscle. The first little thing with potentially large implications that comes to mind are simply some of the neural aspects laced in an inherently larger structure. More motor units? Larger sarcolemma for greater calcium release? All of which are related to greater force production. A different and more brick wall-like type of weight behind the punches.... hmm, that's an interesting point. Does that contemplative cool-point go to you or Jas?

 

[Mulletsoldier]

Ahhhh... a naturally larger & heavier bone structure has a different set of benefits then having that size primarily through muscle. The first little thing with potentially large implications that comes to mind are simply some of the neural aspects laced in an inherently larger structure. More motor units? Larger sarcolemma for greater calcium release? All of which are related to greater force production. A different and more brick wall-like type of weight behind the punches.... hmm, that's an interesting point. Does that contemplative cool-point go to you or Jas?

That is all Jas. As you know, a naturally larger body with Brock will also inherently come equipped with a greater proportionate endurance; all that muscle requires a massive amount of aerobic/anaerobic metabolism. Combined, this leads to high fatigue. Brock, on the other hand, has been training with that size of a body his entire life.

 

[Tomahawk88]

I see your point, but again I have to disagree. If your premise held true, then the UFC would have suffered in the wide-range of circumstances that fighters left for other organizations. Unfortunately, the casual, domestic fan is highly unfamiliar with Fedor, and would likely be un-phased by a quick departure on his part.

You have to understand that 95% of the UFC's audience is not watching "a" fighter, they are watching "the" UFC; in reality, the fighters that comprise the UFC at any given time are somewhat incidental to the entire activity. The UFC is now a functioning league, and therefore any one fighter's impact at any given time can be chalked up as secondary to the motion of the league as a whole.

Fedor would come in, destroy his competition, leave, and most people would forget he existed in due time. The Ferittas and Dana White are nothing if not phenomenal marketers, and "this thing" that Dana incessantly ****ing refers to ad nauseum is now a brand that is primary to the fighters. Again, I say this not endorsing it, as it is really unfortunate; however, it's the truth.

Ya I think I gave to much credit to the average UFC fan. My bad I forgot who we were talking about.
Although I still don't see it being good for business if some "no named"(Fedor) comes in and kills UFC's HW champ. I think it would take lots of money to get Fedor to fight in the UFC so they would have to make it a title fight or it isn't worth it.
My whole point is it doesn't seem reasonable to think Fedor will be in the UFC not that 1 fighter can make a promotion although other fight promotion who throw money at fighters seem to lean more towards fighters>promotion.

 

[VolcomX311]

That is all Jas. As you know, a naturally larger body with Brock will also inherently come equipped with a greater proportionate endurance; all that muscle requires a massive amount of aerobic/anaerobic metabolism. Combined, this leads to high fatigue. Brock, on the other hand, has been training with that size of a body his entire life.

True, true and true, might I also add the potential of having larger and more voluminous mitochondria. We could also get into the fact that Brock has also worked with heavier extremities (his whole life as you pointed out), thus, invoking Newton's First Law to a greater degree in comparison to a lighter object, ie Lashley's arms & legs, therefore, potentially allowing for greater deactivation of the Golgi Tendon, allowing for greater projectile velocity, both at the elbow flexors & shoulder joints, I would have added leg joints but I don't think Brock kicks.

How's that for a pretentious conversation about MMA?

[

No but seriously, these are all legitimate arguments. As far as man-handling ability, I'd pick having a naturally larger bone structure then muscle. Well, to a degree.

 

[brk_nemesis]

I see your point, but again I have to disagree. If your premise held true, then the UFC would have suffered in the wide-range of circumstances that fighters left for other organizations. Unfortunately, the casual, domestic fan is highly unfamiliar with Fedor, and would likely be un-phased by a quick departure on his part.

You have to understand that 95% of the UFC's audience is not watching "a" fighter, they are watching "the" UFC; in reality, the fighters that comprise the UFC at any given time are somewhat incidental to the entire activity. The UFC is now a functioning league, and therefore any one fighter's impact at any given time can be chalked up as secondary to the motion of the league as a whole.

Fedor would come in, destroy his competition, leave, and most people would forget he existed in due time. The Ferittas and Dana White are nothing if not phenomenal marketers, and "this thing" that Dana incessantly ****ing refers to ad nauseum is now a brand that is primary to the fighters. Again, I say this not endorsing it, as it is really unfortunate; however, it's the truth.

Very true, and agreed. The smartest thing Dana ever did "money-wise" was bring the sport to cable television (via Spike) and get it out there past just PPV, bringing the profits skyrocketing. Unfortunately as a result, many of the people who watch UFC are not mma fighters themselves, not vivid long time fans, do not know the sport as a whole( other organizations, etc) and/or simply just watch it to see a bunch of dudes beat the crap outta each other. Like you said a fighter could come in and fade away just as easily. Look at Arlovski, once at the top, everyone was talking about how badazz he was, then BAM! Tim sylvia comes in, takes it, and AA fades away. Then someone else big and badder comes in later, astonishes crowds and its another payday for Dana or "UFC". Then the cycles continue. I also find that some of the people I know who watch UFC only know the names of the fighters that get pronounced on the PPV commercials. Ha! Figures.

 

[stullsy]

I think Mirs going to win by submisson once again and Im calling it in the 2nd round.
I also hope Mir wins b/c Lesnar didnt deserve the title shot in the first place with what like 4 fights under his belt and one of them being the loss to Mir. Dana White blows off about how they used Kimbo as a means of making money and then he goes and signs Brock Lesnar (even though granted Brock is a way better fighter than Kimbo) and gives him a title shot against Couture, like that fight didnt make any money.

 

[texaswolf]

And when the UFC signs Fedor none of this will matter.

when will this happen?

Never. He makes more money not fighting in the UFC.

 

[Mulletsoldier]

Ya I think I gave to much credit to the average UFC fan. My bad I forgot who we were talking about.
Although I still don't see it being good for business if some "no named"(Fedor) comes in and kills UFC's HW champ. I think it would take lots of money to get Fedor to fight in the UFC so they would have to make it a title fight or it isn't worth it.
My whole point is it doesn't seem reasonable to think Fedor will be in the UFC not that 1 fighter can make a promotion although other fight promotion who throw money at fighters seem to lean more towards fighters>promotion.

As much as I despise Dana White, it appears [....at times...] he is interested in recruiting the best fighters. This being said, the issue about Sambo is key to Fee-aye-deyor and this may be a sticking point.

 

[Rodja]

Outside of the combat Sambo issue, it is standard for every UFC contract to have a "champions" clause. This essentially says that if you are a champion, the you may not fight in another organization. If you do, then you be stripped of the title (e.g. BJ Penn).

 

[Mulletsoldier]

Very true, and agreed. The smartest thing Dana ever did "money-wise" was bring the sport to cable television (via Spike) and get it out there past just PPV, bringing the profits skyrocketing. Unfortunately as a result, many of the people who watch UFC are not mma fighters themselves, not vivid long time fans, do not know the sport as a whole( other organizations, etc) and/or simply just watch it to see a bunch of dudes beat the crap outta each other. Like you said a fighter could come in and fade away just as easily. Look at Arlovski, once at the top, everyone was talking about how badazz he was, then BAM! Tim sylvia comes in, takes it, and AA fades away. Then someone else big and badder comes in later, astonishes crowds and its another payday for Dana or "UFC". Then the cycles continue. I also find that some of the people I know who watch UFC only know the names of the fighters that get pronounced on the PPV commercials. Ha! Figures.

Bingo, this is what I mean. Unless a fighter is on a main card, 95% of people have no clue who he is. This means that, unfortunately, the very assets that comprise the business (fighters) have become entirely incidental to the operation of the league.

 

[Mulletsoldier]

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNTQwMTQ1MDQ=.html

Couture and Lesnar's fight. Upon a second watch, Brock was much less panicky than I remember. I think he will overpower Mir.

 

[Mulletsoldier]

Look at the knees at the 1:20 mark of the above video: Brock's knees significantly move Randy's entire body.

 

[brk_nemesis]

I heard a funny quote by Joe Rogan( who I particularly don't like) but it was rather hilarious:

When being asked about who would win the fight, Lesnar or Mir, Rogan replied:

"Its like playing tennis with a wall...... the wall is going to win." :lol:

If Lesner comes in with great conditioning(he should) and uses hes strength/ size to his advantage, not leaving himself open,( knee bars anyone), he should dominate Mir. With more fights under his belt he probably will be less "skittish" in the ring also. But who ever wins, Im sure it will be a good fight. And I hope Bisping gets his head ripped off too.

 

[bigwhiteguy29]

does mir even have the power to knock him out with a punch?

 

[bla55]

Bingo, this is what I mean. Unless a fighter is on a main card, 95% of people have no clue who he is. This means that, unfortunately, the very assets that comprise the business (fighters) have become entirely incidental to the operation of the league.

Best example of this is the thought of most UFC watchers thought Kimbo Slice was an awesome fighter.

At work I was talking to friends and when I said Kimbo sucked they all thought I was insane, that he was great and that he's going to destroy on the UFC and UFer.

So there's your average UFC crowd for you.

 

[Tomahawk88]

Ya I thought it was funny how people loved Kimbo youtube videos. Even earlier on I wasnt all that impressed. He was basically paying not even cans to take a beating. Wow how well would that translate into a fight with a well rounded professional fighter who lives and breathes fighting?

 

[AE14]

Look at the knees at the 1:20 mark of the above video: Brock's knees significantly move Randy's entire body.

I agree, I just rewatched it a few days ago, and outside of another submission I dont think Mir stands much of a chance. Brock's striking is certainly apt to KO Mir who doesnt have a real solid chin. If Brock stays calm (which he did with Randy) he will TKO Mir in the first rd

 

[VolcomX311]

I agree, I just rewatched it a few days ago, and outside of another submission I dont think Mir stands much of a chance. Brock's striking is certainly apt to KO Mir who doesnt have a real solid chin. If Brock stays calm (which he did with Randy) he will TKO Mir in the first rd

It would be the most satisfying victory for me all year if Brock takes it, not so much because I'm SUCH a huge Brock fan, though I do love Brock and have high hopes for him, it's the compounding factor of how much I dislike Mir. I respect Mir's new found heart & passion for the sport, but I still hate that guy.

 

[bigwhiteguy29]

I dont even care i just want it to be badass becauses im buying it!

 

[jay21]

i myself very interested in this i just hope it goes all 5 rounds. i will be terribly mad if it ends within 1min ro so

 

[Tomahawk88]

Id be disappointed if it went 5 rounds because I think they would just gas out. Outside of 3 rounds I think they will gas and do some laying. Id say give me an explosive 3rd rd KO or a nasty submission.

 

[Jessep76]

I dont even care i just want it to be badass becauses im buying it!

as long as we get a couple rounds from everyone I'll be happy...unless brock lays on mir all day

 

[Mulletsoldier]

he will TKO Mir in the first rd

This. He has dropped or nearly dropped all three of his opponents in the UFC with a hard right jab in the first round. Unfortunately, his little experience striking has not afforded him that killer instinct, or else all three of his victories would be first round TKO. He dropped Mir with the first shot, Herring with the first shot, and Randy wobbled early in the first as well [though he recuperated]. Despite what some of the more "purist" pundits may be pretentiously promulgating [that was for Volcom], Brock has the decided advantage in striking.

 

[bigwhiteguy29]

yeah he does need a better ground n pound like wandys killer instinct. he will get it, some of these guys have had 25 plus amateur fights some over 50. if he did jsut sit for 5 rounds that would suck. also having 5 rounds i cant really seem them having a war it would get boring they are fast enough like these small guys battles even 205's.

 

[Mo250]

Mir via submission

 

[Jessep76]

This. He has dropped or nearly dropped all three of his opponents in the UFC with a hard right jab in the first round. Unfortunately, his little experience striking has not afforded him that killer instinct, or else all three of his victories would be first round TKO. He dropped Mir with the first shot, Herring with the first shot, and Randy wobbled early in the first as well [though he recuperated]. Despite what some of the more "purist" pundits may be pretentiously promulgating [that was for Volcom], Brock has the decided advantage in striking.

Power and strength aside don't you think he's getting a little predictable? Say for instance Machida puts on 20+ pounds and avoids all his strikes like he does so well with Rash and Titso, and was able to let him run out his gas tank I think his potential weakness might be capitalized on. Unfortunately for Mir he's as lightning quick...

 

[Mulletsoldier]

Power and strength aside don't you think he's getting a little predictable? Say for instance Machida puts on 20+ pounds and avoids all his strikes like he does so well with Rash and Titso, and was able to let him run out his gas tank I think his potential weakness might be capitalized on. Unfortunately for Mir he's as lightning quick...

The dude is 285 and runs the 40 in 4.7, hah. Predicting something is all well and good, but stopping it is another.

 

[Jessep76]

Are there no holes in his game at all?

 

[Tomahawk88]

There are holes of course but respect/fear of his KO power and takedown help keep people honest.

 

[Rodja]

Are there no holes in his game at all?

People often forget that this will be Brock's 5th fight. He's still new to the game and will continue to improve the longer he trains.

 

[Mulletsoldier]

Are there no holes in his game at all?

Yes, that is exactly what I said. There are a lot of holes in his game, but I was just saying that exploiting them are difficult. He is a 285lb-beast who moves faster than a LW.

 

[Jessep76]

I'm just seeing more people giving the win to Brock but I think he's still just as suseptable to a submission assuming Mir aviods any potentially knock out capable strikes. And as mentioned above he's on his 5th fight which works for and against him.

 

[VolcomX311]

The dude is 285 and runs the 40 in 4.7, hah. Predicting something is all well and good, but stopping it is another.

Agreed. Knowing someone's game plan isn't as great of an advantage if that person excels at executing it. Por jemplo, GSP's game plan is quite predictable, poke, determine spatial & pace variables, the take is coming for SURE, wrestling will be a 99% chance probability in the fight. Every KNOWS the takedown is coming, but nobody has been able to stop it.

Obviously Brock isn't anywhere near the technician GSP is in terms of executing a plan, but Brock's dangerous level of execution is in his sheer strength, agility, (wrestling) competition experience and general athleticism. He's abnormal in terms of size AND speed.

Brock isn't a Bob Sapp fighter, which he gets ignorantly categorized as. Sapp is 99% size & brute strength, but talent, agility, conditioning, speed, tenacity, instinct are all divided into that last 1%. I don't know what Brock's ratio in those terms would be, but the talent, agility, conditioning, speed, tenacity, instinct portion would be at a respectable level, on top of how overwhelming his strength & size is.

[I have to throw in Mirko's signature high kick in the mix, too. If anyone was "expected" to do something with 100% probability, it was Mirko's high kick, but he excelled at that, in terms of speed, timing and instinct "at the time." RIP]

In closing, I don't think Brock is the best fighter or anywhere near it, I don't think Brock is anywhere, ANYWHERE near unbeatable, even by Mir, but I do have high hopes for Brock. I admire his freakish athleticism more then his MMA talent, but I also recognized as soon as he got on the scene, that with that much raw athleticism, he would have great potential for MMA.

I'm much more excited about Brock's potential, then where he stands currently (notwithstanding tomorrow's fight).

 

[Jessep76]

Indeed his potential will bring and has already brought a lot more excitement to UFC's HW division.

 

[Mulletsoldier]

Agreed. Knowing someone's game plan isn't as great of an advantage if that person excels at executing it. Por jemplo, GSP's game plan is quite predictable, poke, determine spatial & pace variables, the take is coming for SURE, wrestling will be a 99% chance probability in the fight. Every KNOWS the takedown is coming, but nobody has been able to stop it.

Obviously Brock isn't anywhere near the technician GSP is in terms of executing a plan, but Brock's dangerous level of execution is in his sheer strength, agility, (wrestling) competition experience and general athleticism. He's abnormal in terms of size AND speed.

Brock isn't a Bob Sapp fighter, which he gets ignorantly categorized as. Sapp is 99% size & brute strength, but talent, agility, conditioning, speed, tenacity, instinct are all divided into that last 1%. I don't know what Brock's ratio in those terms would be, but the talent, agility, conditioning, speed, tenacity, instinct portion would be at a respectable level, on top of how overwhelming his strength & size is.

[I have to throw in Mirko's signature high kick in the mix, too. If anyone was "expected" to do something with 100% probability, it was Mirko's high kick, but he excelled at that, in terms of speed, timing and instinct "at the time." RIP]

In closing, I don't think Brock is the best fighter or anywhere near it, I don't think Brock is anywhere, ANYWHERE near unbeatable, even by Mir, but I do have high hopes for Brock. I admire his freakish athleticism more then his MMA talent, but I also recognized as soon as he got on the scene, that with that much raw athleticism, he would have great potential for MMA.

I'm much more excited about Brock's potential, then where he stands currently (notwithstanding tomorrow's fight).

Exactly. Game-plans are wonderful, but: the execution depends solely on the fighter, who either makes it predictable, or difficult to stop. As you said, speed and agility play largely into whether or not a game plan is effective; for example, GSP's TDs are the most effective in MMA because of his timing and ability to vary his striking. Brock is inexperienced, and Mir is dangerous in guard, but Mir is a perfect match-up for Brock: Mir will not stop his TDs, most likely cannot knock him out, is susceptible to the "canned-ham" jab. I still give Mir a chance in this fight, but Brock is too imposing, IMO.

War GSP.

 

[Mulletsoldier]

P.S.,

What makes Mir dangerous is that he can pull a submission victory, even while being dominated, as he aptly showed in the first fight; same goes with Thiago, but for striking.

 

[Jessep76]

P.S.,

What makes Mir dangerous is that he can pull a submission victory, even while being dominated, as he aptly showed in the first fight; same goes with Thiago, but for striking.

Thats true but as Brocks trainer said in the pre show the other day... it may not have happened if Steve M hadn't stood them up..

Brock: "I'd like to punch that mustach off his face!"

 

[VolcomX311]

P.S.,

What makes Mir dangerous is that he can pull a submission victory, even while being dominated, as he aptly showed in the first fight; same goes with Thiago, but for striking.

Yep, Mir exploited a window of opportunity admirably, to my dismay. I consider a sub by Mir a dangerous and likely outcome. If Mir wins by sub, I'd be severely disappointed, but not shocked & crushed. However, if Mir for some reason wins on his feet, I'm quitting my job.

 

[Mulletsoldier]

Yep, Mir exploited a window of opportunity admirably, to my dismay. I consider a sub by Mir a dangerous and likely outcome. If Mir wins by sub, I'd be severely disappointed, but not shocked & crushed. However, if Mir for some reason wins on his feet, I'm quitting my job.

Haha. Either way, I am not going to see this bout. If GSP wins, I will be running naked through the streets with a Canadian flag draped on my back; if he loses, I will string up.

 

[Jessep76]

You're refusing to watch the final bout??

 

[VolcomX311]

You're refusing to watch the final bout??

Canadian Bill of Lefts, Section I, Paragraph 3(a)(iii).: Thou art under oath, with unwavering duty, regarding and aboot the wrapping of our Canadia's flag nigh ye unclothen cornhole and run ye aboot the streets at the resolve of any and all Georges Saint Pierre's fights, with undaunted expedience.

However, thus thou, ye must string ye nigh the flag of our Canadia, in the unjust outcome of a loss, and in ye thy circumstance of said lost, thou whilst henceforth, slain ye, the closest American, sellah.

[Personally, I think this article is whack, but Mullet is a bit of a patriot.]

 

[Jessep76]

I found Saint Pierre much better than Saint Peter.