Follidrone and Viron Stack

brundel

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Why cardio over cutting back cals? Besides eating is just fun. ;)
Primarily because adding the cardio is a positive contribution to the overall program.
We want the added 500 cals as a rule of thumb for gaining and you continue at the 500 until weight stalls for a few weeks.
The cardio is a way to keep fat gain in check.
It also helps to add cals in the form of protein and good healthy fats before carbs.
 

Shin Sprints

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Anybody get DOMS on Follidrone and Viron?

I am just curious, today is 5th day on both and I woke up this morning a little stiff...I don't normally get DOMS.

Too early to say whether I see any benefits but this morning I was not looking forward to lifting but once I got started I felt good.

Nothing super heavy as I am starting a new 4 week program cycle so will see how the numbers go.
 
Joshlm69

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First week of follidrone gave me insane doms, haha
 

Shin Sprints

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HAHA...sometimes they are nice, but also nice to be able to walk down stairs :p

Lets see what tomorrow brings me, I did 8x8 on Squats this morning followed by leg press (4x8), single leg extensions (2x8), weighted hyperextensions (4x8), seated hamstring curls (2x8).

Good be gooood, could be baaaad, haha.
 
Joshlm69

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enjoy walking like you've been in prison showers bro
 

kisaj

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Anybody get DOMS on Follidrone and Viron?

I am just curious, today is 5th day on both and I woke up this morning a little stiff...I don't normally get DOMS.

Too early to say whether I see any benefits but this morning I was not looking forward to lifting but once I got started I felt good.

Nothing super heavy as I am starting a new 4 week program cycle so will see how the numbers go.
LOL, yes DOMS are very common.
 

Shin Sprints

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HAHA.

Thanks...I guess good to know what I have in store tomorrow...not that I can do anything about it now :p

Maybe the leg volume wasn't such a good idea :p
 

kisaj

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People are upping the volume work once they start taking FD and that is no doubt in play. My first run I was in the middle of a PL, low rep/heavy weight routine and I did not see the soreness that the others did. On my second run, I started a phat routine and really started to get them.
 

Shin Sprints

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Thanks.

I have been doing PHAT Monday-Friday the last few months, changing every 4 weeks and I don't seem to have an issue with volume in terms of recovery. Little or no DOMS so somewhat interested by the fact I had them this morning.
 
ELROCK

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Anybody get DOMS on Follidrone and Viron?

I am just curious, today is 5th day on both and I woke up this morning a little stiff...I don't normally get DOMS.

Too early to say whether I see any benefits but this morning I was not looking forward to lifting but once I got started I felt good.

Nothing super heavy as I am starting a new 4 week program cycle so will see how the numbers go.
Yup, I got bad DOMS for the first two weeks of Follidrone. As it subsided the performance benefits kept rising.
 
goodvibes

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Yup, I got bad DOMS for the first two weeks of Follidrone. As it subsided the performance benefits kept rising.
I had three runs on ARA and never felt DOMs like I experienced while being on Follidrone. It's a good feeling but since I want to keep my 5 days a week workout routine I had to start a SARM cycle because of it. Reaping the benefits now :) I'm getting my strength back I lost from small injuries and my shoulders are healing quite nicely.

Picked up the 100lb dumbells again for the first time yesterday, it was a GOOOD day
 

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Just an update on the DOMS from yesterday's leg workout...a little stiff but nothing too bad.

Nice back and shoulder workout this morning, it will take a couple more weeks to assess Follidrone and Viron impact as I started a new 4 week routine.

Side note, despite being lean I am not very vascular person but yesterday evening I noticed a little more than usual...may have been the warm evening, something I will keep an eye on.
 
Joshlm69

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Just an update on the DOMS from yesterday's leg workout...a little stiff but nothing too bad.

Nice back and shoulder workout this morning, it will take a couple more weeks to assess Follidrone and Viron impact as I started a new 4 week routine.

Side note, despite being lean I am not very vascular person but yesterday evening I noticed a little more than usual...may have been the warm evening, something I will keep an eye on.
Folli definitely increases vascularity.

Also, I find the 48 hour leg DOMs way worse than the 24 hour ones
 

kisaj

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I'm not sure how long any of you have been lifting, but DOMS get pretty old after the first 5-10 years and it is always worse on the second day. You all are crazy for actually liking them. And yeah, vascularity on FD is definitely a nice thing.
 
blacklac

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I'm not sure how long any of you have been lifting, but DOMS get pretty old after the first 5-10 years and it is always worse on the second day. You all are crazy for actually liking them. And yeah, vascularity on FD is definitely a nice thing.

I Kinda like DOMS, but its because I rarely get them, unless I take a few days off or switch my routine up.

Although, deadlift DOMS... Do not want.
 

kisaj

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I've walked around in a constant state of some muscle soreness for as long as I can remember. I am talking about DOMS that make feel like you have the flu and it hurts to be touched. Nasty stuff.
 
goodvibes

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I've walked around in a constant state of some muscle soreness for as long as I can remember. I am talking about DOMS that make feel like you have the flu and it hurts to be touched. Nasty stuff.
Aahhh I dont think I've ever had it that extreme. But ya if some pressure is applied it does hurt. The only body part that I don't feel any soreness are my shoulder muscles.
 

kisaj

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Yeah, that is what I think of when I talk DOMS. Kind of like when you have a squat session and you need to brace yourself to sit down for 3 days after? LOL. That is always interesting.
 
ELROCK

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I've walked around in a constant state of some muscle soreness for as long as I can remember. I am talking about DOMS that make feel like you have the flu and it hurts to be touched. Nasty stuff.
Yup, those are the heavy leg day post 2 day DOMS.
 

Shin Sprints

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Just a mini-update as I have been taking 10 days inclusive of today (started mid-week last week on receiving the mail) and now have one full week of lifting (Monday-Friday) done while taking the stack.

As I did Chest on Monday (Day 6 of stack) and today (Day 10) I can somewhat compare...so while I am not about to go gung ho and say that the stack is amazing, I am pretty impressed. Today's workout was good and I lifted more on my bench today than at the end than I did on Monday...I don't think absolute strength is vastly different but I did feel stronger at the end of my bench sets than Monday.

I am probably pushing at the upper region of my natural strength on the big compound movements so how much my strength can actually increase over the stack is probably not as much as others who may not be at their natural limits.

Only a little over a week in so hard to quantify after only one full week of lifting while taking it but power output seems consistent across sets if that makes any sense!
 
wolfpack893

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Just a mini-update as I have been taking 10 days inclusive of today (started mid-week last week on receiving the mail) and now have one full week of lifting (Monday-Friday) done while taking the stack.

As I did Chest on Monday (Day 6 of stack) and today (Day 10) I can somewhat compare...so while I am not about to go gung ho and say that the stack is amazing, I am pretty impressed. Today's workout was good and I lifted more on my bench today than at the end than I did on Monday...I don't think absolute strength is vastly different but I did feel stronger at the end of my bench sets than Monday.

I am probably pushing at the upper region of my natural strength on the big compound movements so how much my strength can actually increase over the stack is probably not as much as others who may not be at their natural limits.

Only a little over a week in so hard to quantify after only one full week of lifting while taking it but power output seems consistent across sets if that makes any sense!
good stuff bro! just wait till the next few weeks you're in for a good one!
 

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good stuff bro! just wait till the next few weeks you're in for a good one!
Thanks man...Looking forward to it.

I have a 200km cycle next weekend so I hoping endurance is good for that. I have not trained much for cycling as it somewhat conflicts with gym work but once I get this week of 'simultaneous' training I will dump any endurance cardio and move towards HIIT cardio to supplement the lifting.
 

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Wow...I do Bench Mondays and Fridays...just finishing Bench now, I see a significant difference in performance from Monday on Monday and even Friday on Monday.

Lifting heavier later into sets.

Impressed.
 
brundel

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Just a mini-update as I have been taking 10 days inclusive of today (started mid-week last week on receiving the mail) and now have one full week of lifting (Monday-Friday) done while taking the stack.

As I did Chest on Monday (Day 6 of stack) and today (Day 10) I can somewhat compare...so while I am not about to go gung ho and say that the stack is amazing, I am pretty impressed. Today's workout was good and I lifted more on my bench today than at the end than I did on Monday...I don't think absolute strength is vastly different but I did feel stronger at the end of my bench sets than Monday.

I am probably pushing at the upper region of my natural strength on the big compound movements so how much my strength can actually increase over the stack is probably not as much as others who may not be at their natural limits.

Only a little over a week in so hard to quantify after only one full week of lifting while taking it but power output seems consistent across sets if that makes any sense!

This looks good to me. I think we get spoiled once we have taken some steroids or strong PH cycles and have become accustomed to a drug that makes you stronger acutely. I mean you can take an oral steroid an hour before training and be stronger by a good deal than if you didnt take the pill.
Follidrone doesnt work like this I dont think. While it seems for some there are some pretty significant acute results (referencing the dozen or so guys who increased poundage by 20-50lbs in the first week on some lifts) the effects of Follidrone are more subtle but in a way far more substantial.

The oral steroid for example you would get stronger yes but only for about 3 hours lol.
Follidrone appears to cause a dynamic upshift to a higher gear so to speak. We see greater endurance capacity, and, while I am unsure on this, Im starting to think that perhaps the increased endurance is what causes the more acute strength changes for some and here is why. If you can train with a 50% greater endurance capacity this means at 100% of normal failure point youll still have some juice in the tank. This may not make you acutely stronger that way we normally think of it but what it does do is make it so every set will feel like you have rested for 4 min instead of 30 sec or whatever. We all know if you rest 30 sec you wont be as strong as if you rest for 3 min. Follidrone gives you the ability to train even with 30 sec to a min rest periods and yet still feel like you have been taking 2-4 min rests. This = more strength during your sets which = you growing stronger over time with proper nutrition.
We have also seen that Follidrone increased protein synthesis so...greater weight lifted plus increased protein synthesis will =you growing at an abnormal rate so long as proper nutrition is achieved.

"(-)-epicatechin alone or in combination with exercise induces an integrated response that includes structural and metabolic changes in skeletal and cardiac muscles resulting in greater endurance capacity."

"Significant increases in treadmill performance (∼50%) and enhanced in situ muscle fatigue resistance (∼30%) were observed with (-)-epicatechin."

^^^ 50% increase in treadmill performance? Do you have any idea how huge that is. Ask Lance Armstrong if 50% increase in treadmill performance is significant?!?!.

The resulting changes are static for the duration of administration so even when your not training your body is in a "trained" state. This is part of why there is so much more potential for muscle mass accumulation while taking Follidrone.

"Training significantly increased capillary-to-fiber ratio (≈ 78.8%), cytochrome-c oxidase (≈ 35%), and activity (≈ 144%) compared to controls. This we already know and we expect things to change when your out of the gym for any sigificant amount of time but with Follidrone on board it doesnt return to normal. These adaptations returned to control levels for the DETRAINED group, whereas the DETRTAINED +(-)-Epi group was able to maintain capillary-to-fiber ratio (≈ 44%), CcO protein expression (≈ 45%), and activity (≈ 108%) above control levels"


At any rate I think some guys get discouraged because you dont "FEEL" Follidrone like you do a PH or DS or AAS.
The potential is there, however, and those who choose to train harder knowing they have added potential and eat like a bodybuilder with measured caloric and protein increases will be the guys we keep seeing who gain 10lbs and lose bodyfat.
 
wolfpack893

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This looks good to me. I think we get spoiled once we have taken some steroids or strong PH cycles and have become accustomed to a drug that makes you stronger acutely. I mean you can take an oral steroid an hour before training and be stronger by a good deal than if you didnt take the pill.
Follidrone doesnt work like this I dont think. While it seems for some there are some pretty significant acute results (referencing the dozen or so guys who increased poundage by 20-50lbs in the first week on some lifts) the effects of Follidrone are more subtle but in a way far more substantial.

The oral steroid for example you would get stronger yes but only for about 3 hours lol.
Follidrone appears to cause a dynamic upshift to a higher gear so to speak. We see greater endurance capacity, and, while I am unsure on this, Im starting to think that perhaps the increased endurance is what causes the more acute strength changes for some and here is why. If you can train with a 50% greater endurance capacity this means at 100% of normal failure point youll still have some juice in the tank. This may not make you acutely stronger that way we normally think of it but what it does do is make it so every set will feel like you have rested for 4 min instead of 30 sec or whatever. We all know if you rest 30 sec you wont be as strong as if you rest for 3 min. Follidrone gives you the ability to train even with 30 sec to a min rest periods and yet still feel like you have been taking 2-4 min rests. This = more strength during your sets which = you growing stronger over time with proper nutrition.
We have also seen that Follidrone increased protein synthesis so...greater weight lifted plus increased protein synthesis will =you growing at an abnormal rate so long as proper nutrition is achieved.

"(-)-epicatechin alone or in combination with exercise induces an integrated response that includes structural and metabolic changes in skeletal and cardiac muscles resulting in greater endurance capacity."

"Significant increases in treadmill performance (∼50%) and enhanced in situ muscle fatigue resistance (∼30%) were observed with (-)-epicatechin."

^^^ 50% increase in treadmill performance? Do you have any idea how huge that is. Ask Lance Armstrong if 50% increase in treadmill performance is significant?!?!.

The resulting changes are static for the duration of administration so even when your not training your body is in a "trained" state. This is part of why there is so much more potential for muscle mass accumulation while taking Follidrone.

"Training significantly increased capillary-to-fiber ratio (≈ 78.8%), cytochrome-c oxidase (≈ 35%), and activity (≈ 144%) compared to controls. This we already know and we expect things to change when your out of the gym for any sigificant amount of time but with Follidrone on board it doesnt return to normal. These adaptations returned to control levels for the DETRAINED group, whereas the DETRTAINED +(-)-Epi group was able to maintain capillary-to-fiber ratio (≈ 44%), CcO protein expression (≈ 45%), and activity (≈ 108%) above control levels"


At any rate I think some guys get discouraged because you dont "FEEL" Follidrone like you do a PH or DS or AAS.
The potential is there, however, and those who choose to train harder knowing they have added potential and eat like a bodybuilder with measured caloric and protein increases will be the guys we keep seeing who gain 10lbs and lose bodyfat.
Its pretty crazy that I've gained 7lbs already over the last four weeks on follidrone yet running on treadmill/elliptical/stairs or whatever form of cardio feels so much easier than it did when I was smaller. And now starting to see strength gains too it just keeps getting better haha
 
brundel

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Its pretty crazy that I've gained 7lbs already over the last four weeks on follidrone yet running on treadmill/elliptical/stairs or whatever form of cardio feels so much easier than it did when I was smaller. And now starting to see strength gains too it just keeps getting better haha
Its nice to have a fresh supplement choice with the potential to give you 10lbs of weight gain while losing bodyfat.
Particularly when its also healthy for you to take. Lowered triglycerides. Increased HDL (the good cholesterol).
The more I hear about guys having these insane cycle experiences the more I feel like Ive done my job well.

This also pushes me to want to make other supplements with similar potential.

There is more on the way....insane stuff.
 

kissdadookie

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So Brundel, have you actually used Follidrone yet? Last time I've checked, you've stated that you haven't. If you haven't, why not?
 
brundel

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So Brundel, have you actually used Follidrone yet? Last time I've checked, you've stated that you haven't. If you haven't, why not?
I started a cycle of it but got a bronchial infection and had to stop training.
I had intended to start again about 3 weeks ago but reinjured my shoulder....old pre existing injury.
Ive been out of training for almost a month I believe.

Its starting to feel alot better though so Ill most likely be starting to get back into the groove in the next week or so.

I have a stack planned for it.
I cant run any AAS or PH or anything hard on the heart.

The plan is 12 weeks of Follidrone plus something else we are testing currently.
Ill start the Follidrone 4 weeks before the other so I know what a full month of Foll does for me.

I might run a log with pictures but Im not sure as Im out of shape and dont like showing people pictures of myself unless Im a beast.
Well see though.

I want to get in shape for this big powerlifting competition thats coming up.
 

kissdadookie

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I started a cycle of it but got a bronchial infection and had to stop training.
I had intended to start again about 3 weeks ago but reinjured my shoulder....old pre existing injury.
Ive been out of training for almost a month I believe.

Its starting to feel alot better though so Ill most likely be starting to get back into the groove in the next week or so.

I have a stack planned for it.
I cant run any AAS or PH or anything hard on the heart.

The plan is 12 weeks of Follidrone plus something else we are testing currently.
Ill start the Follidrone 4 weeks before the other so I know what a full month of Foll does for me.

I might run a log with pictures but Im not sure as Im out of shape and dont like showing people pictures of myself unless Im a beast.
Well see though.

I want to get in shape for this big powerlifting competition thats coming up.
Oh man, sorry to hear about the bonchial infection! I hate regressing in training, not fun.

Definitely log it with pics!
 

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Yeah, always a bummer when get laid down with an infection or injury...get well soon.
 
iThrow

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^^ what they said, heal up brundel! maybe you and I could run that folli/viron stack together ;)
 
fightnews

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Get gyno - feel yourself up - profit
 

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Small update...

I am exactly half way through my Follidrone and Viron stack.

I have noticed that I seem to get stronger from workout to workout and this is at worked sets of likely over 80% of 1RM.

My volume seems to be increasing also...this morning I was in the gym for 90 minutes, before the stack my workout was likely to last around 70 minutes at the most. I seem to have plenty of gas in the tank even after 80-90 minutes. I am worried that I may be doing too much volume (I lift Monday to Friday). That said my worked sets are around 22 sets per workout and I take plenty of rest between sets due to the weight I am pushing with respect to 1RM %ages.

I have started taking intra-wrokout carbs with BC/EAAs to try mitigate the volume and help recovery.

Just to give you some sample numbers...

Bench workout prior to taking Follidrone and Viron...8 sets...Average Weight x Average Reps...205 x 5.875

Previous Bench workout prior to today's Bench...8 sets...Average Weight x Average Reps (Average RPE)...221.25 x 6.125 (9.625)

Bench workout for today Bench...8 sets...Average Weight x Average Reps (Average RPE)...225.5 x 6.75 (9.625)

So basically the above numbers show an increase in weight lifted and reps completed.
 

kisaj

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Very similar to results I was seeing as I normally work in that weight% as opposed to high volume. Right now it is shining like crazy on Rest/Pause. I started in 80% working range and have increased each week.
 

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I am looking forward to the second half of the stack :)

Body composition I seem to be keeping my current BF% levels (I guestimate 11%) and have upped calories to around 3500. Macros are approximately 25% Protein, 35% Carbs, 40% Fats.

My weight may or may not be up a couple of pounds, it is hard to tell as I can't seem to find a reliable scale! In any case if I have put on weight it would be no more than 2lbs.
 

kisaj

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Yeah, I put on about 6 lbs on my first run and ended up keeping almost 5 since then on a recomp. That tells me it was a very solid weight gain. On my second run I didn't gain any and I have not on this third run, but body comp is dramatic and strength is continues to climb through each routine. Pretty telling to be able to keep going up in weights, adding cardio, and not lose a single pound on a recomp.
 
fightnews

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Small update...

I am exactly half way through my Follidrone and Viron stack.

I have noticed that I seem to get stronger from workout to workout and this is at worked sets of likely over 80% of 1RM.

My volume seems to be increasing also...this morning I was in the gym for 90 minutes, before the stack my workout was likely to last around 70 minutes at the most. I seem to have plenty of gas in the tank even after 80-90 minutes. I am worried that I may be doing too much volume (I lift Monday to Friday). That said my worked sets are around 22 sets per workout and I take plenty of rest between sets due to the weight I am pushing with respect to 1RM %ages.

I have started taking intra-wrokout carbs with BC/EAAs to try mitigate the volume and help recovery.

Just to give you some sample numbers...

Bench workout prior to taking Follidrone and Viron...8 sets...Average Weight x Average Reps...205 x 5.875

Previous Bench workout prior to today's Bench...8 sets...Average Weight x Average Reps (Average RPE)...221.25 x 6.125 (9.625)

Bench workout for today Bench...8 sets...Average Weight x Average Reps (Average RPE)...225.5 x 6.75 (9.625)

So basically the above numbers show an increase in weight lifted and reps completed.
good move, what are you using? hopefully hbcd? Anyway me and everyone else are reporting the same continuing strength gains. pretty sweet guys, i just started me some viron to.
 
Joshlm69

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I just picked up Amino IV aswell to help with the recovery
 

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good move, what are you using? hopefully hbcd? Anyway me and everyone else are reporting the same continuing strength gains. pretty sweet guys, i just started me some viron to.
I workout in the morning...

Pre-Workout - 2 scoops of MAN Body Octane and 1 scoop of Amino IV with 4g Leucine.

Intra-Workout - 30g Karbolyn with a scoop of Amino IV and 2 scoops of True Nutrition EAAs

Post-Workout - 30g Whey, 30g Karbolyn and 1 cup of Chocolate Milk


I have an order of 35% PeptoPro 65% HBCD mix on the way so I will switch to this when it arrives.
 
ELROCK

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I workout in the morning...

Pre-Workout - 2 scoops of MAN Body Octane and 1 scoop of Amino IV with 4g Leucine.

Intra-Workout - 30g Karbolyn with a scoop of Amino IV and 2 scoops of True Nutrition EAAs

Post-Workout - 30g Whey, 30g Karbolyn and 1 cup of Chocolate Milk

I have an order of 35% PeptoPro 65% HBCD mix on the way so I will switch to this when it arrives.
Where did you scoop up the peptopro/ hbcd mix from?
 
brundel

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I always just mix cheap waxy maize with BCAA, Glutamine and drink it while I train.
I start on the way to the gym and it really does make a difference with regards to energy and a huge difference in pump so long as Im well hydrated.
 

kissdadookie

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I always just mix cheap waxy maize with BCAA, Glutamine and drink it while I train.
I start on the way to the gym and it really does make a difference with regards to energy and a huge difference in pump so long as Im well hydrated.
Hell yeah. Fasted training ='s flat as a pancake. Fueled training ='s SWOLE.
 

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Anyone ever run Follidrone for 12 weeks continuously?

I am only on week 4.5 but curious about running a third bottle.

Thanks.
 
toddmuelheim

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Anyone ever run Follidrone for 12 weeks continuously? I am only on week 4.5 but curious about running a third bottle. Thanks.
Touey is on week 17 I think. He has a very detailed write up going on the "if follidrone is bunk..." thread.
 

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I'm on week 9 on way to a likely 16 week run. There is no drop or leveling off, it is a continual progression as work through several routines. I ran a 4 week initially, took a little time off and now doing this.
 

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Thanks.

I may go get another bottle and run for 12 weeks.
 

kisaj

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At this point, I see no reason to cycle as the gains feel very natural and are due in part to variety and intensity in my routines. This assists and is not the sole reason for, so combining that and the additional health benefits makes it seem to be a great staple.
 
brundel

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A bunch of guys are in the 3 month range now.
Movement is still going strong as is Touey and Kasaj.

Like Kasaj Said...why even cycle it. Many of the benefits persist so....Cant think of a better staple.
 

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