First timer: epi or osta?

[stespiel]

Was originally thinking ostarine but now am going back and forth between ostarine and epistane. One concern I have with epi is the hair issues guys are reporting. A lot of people are using osta for cutting so I'm not sure if that's the best choice either.

My stats:
30, 5'8" 160, 10% bf, been training 10yrs, compete in powerlifting @ 148. Been gaining good strength on my latest powerlifting routine, was thinking about doing a 5x5 over winter to put on some lean lbs. Long term goal is to be a lean 175.

My diet and training are on point, just looking to maximize my gains this winter. Only considering legal/no pins (living situation wouldn't allow it).

 

[mgkoret]

Epi at 45 for 6 weeks. It's good stuff.

 

[nbshazeezee]

Hdrol

 

[LeanEngineer]

http://www.strongsupplementshop.com/top-10-bulking-prohormones

If your looking to put on some size and your not set in stone with osta or epi then I would check out our top ten bulking PH's at Strong Supplement Shop. Msten Extreme Mass by Assault labs has a lot of good reviews.

If your deciding between osta and epi I would go with epi even tho some say it gives you hair loss but in the end I think it will give you better results than osta. Here's our epistane info page if you want to check it out.
http://www.strongsupplementshop.com/epistane-info

 

[edje007]

Epi at 45 for 6 weeks. It's good stuff.

I would go for epi too.

If it's your first cycle then start off with 30mg and go from there.

Example: ep15tane olympus labs

30/30/45/45/45/45

Ar1macare pro 4 a day for cycle support

Pct clomid or nolva
Clomid 50/50/25/25

Or nolva 20/20/10/10

Sup3er pct along side it
4/4/3/3/2/1

 

[murman89]

I would think that msten as a first time ph would be way too harsh, and give you nowhere to go as far as stronger ph's. Osta will not put on that much size but will give you a taste of what to expect. I'd maybe move on to epi or something like androbulk from there, then progressively move up if you chose to. I ran an 8 week osta+ep1c cycle and it was pretty fun, also very easy to recover from.

 

[mgkoret]

I would go for epi too. If it's your first cycle then start off with 30mg and go from there. Example: ep15tane olympus labs 30/30/45/45/45/45 Ar1macare pro 4 a day for cycle support Pct clomid or nolva Clomid 50/50/25/25 Or nolva 20/20/10/10 Sup3er pct along side it 4/4/3/3/2/1

This

 

[Abe Lincoln]

Low dosed dmz 30mg for 6 weeks. Have good cycle support like cel cycle assist + tudca and a serm for pct.

 

[RickyBlobby]

Hdrol

x2!

 

[bert45]

Epii

 

[McCrew530]

I say go Halo if you are worried about hair issues Epi has me shedding bad. That reminds me I have some stuff for trade if anyone is interested...

 

[Blergs]

Honestly Teste for 12-14 weeks with 4-6wks epi if your dead set on orals IMO

 

[aoeu]

I say go Halo if you are worried about hair issues Epi has me shedding bad. That reminds me I have some stuff for trade if anyone is interested...

Agreed. I went with halodrol for my first cycle exactly for hair reasons. I made good gains, and in fact my hair shedding SLOWED down. Once I finished PCT and got my natural test back up the shedding picked up again.

 

[MrBEEF]

stespiel,

I have just recently done both. For me..there is no comparison between the 2 regarding gains/performance. Epi hands down PWNS osterine.

If you're experienced and have diet in control...go for Epi...get a PCT set up but everything beforehand.

osterine is decent, but epi for me was the single greatest supp I have ever taken (PH or not)..the best, all you'll think about is being in the gym.

 

[stann123]

Honestly Teste for 12-14 weeks with 4-6wks epi if your dead set on orals IMO

Definitely not the best oral to kickstart but itll do I guess

 

[sinewave3]

Osta is a great first cycle - good for a recomp or cut. If you want to add some size Epi, halo, or maybe something else will be much better.

 

[stespiel]

ok i guess osta is out. sounds like most recommend epi but i'm still worried about the hair loss.. i'll hit the books on halo. are halo gains similar to epi?

 

[nbshazeezee]

My dad and older brother are bald and I didn't have any prob on Hdrol at even higher doses.

 

[stespiel]

here's what i'm thinking

hdrol 50/75/75/75/75/75
dermacrine 0/3/3/4/5/5
+cel cycle assist through cycle and pct
+forma (on hand)

pct
nolva 20/20/10/10
daa 3/3/3/3
+cel pct assist

should i have forma on hand just in case? anything i'm missing? i'm pumped, i want to start buying this stuff up..

 

[nbshazeezee]

here's what i'm thinking hdrol 50/75/75/75/75/75 +cel cycle assist through cycle and pct pct nolva 20/20/10/10 daa 3/3/3/3 +cel pct assist should i have forma on hand just in case? anything i'm missing? i'm pumped, i want to start buying this stuff up..

Add some dermacrine

0/3/3/4/5/5 and you will be happy you did. It makes a world of a difference adding a test base on orals
You shouldn't have a problem with estro during the cycle. I used a few pumps of forma here and there on cycle.

 

[JPSwole]

Try nano mithras instead its stronger than halo , never tried epi cause of the hairloss either. I didn't have any hairloss issues with nano mithras and triumphalis, 11kt stack.

 

[stespiel]

Add some dermacrine

0/3/3/4/5/5 and you will be happy you did. It makes a world of a difference adding a test base on orals
You shouldn't have a problem with estro during the cycle. I used a few pumps of forma here and there on cycle.

thx man, just edited.

 

[aoeu]

here's what i'm thinking

hdrol 50/75/75/75/75/75
dermacrine 0/3/3/4/5/5
+cel cycle assist through cycle and pct
+forma (on hand)

pct
nolva 20/20/10/10
daa 3/3/3/3
+cel pct assist

should i have forma on hand just in case? anything i'm missing? i'm pumped, i want to start buying this stuff up..

Yes, never start without a strong AI on hand. My nipples started itching/tingling/burning/cramping like crazy on halodrol and only letro was strong enough to stop it. Those days waiting for my anti E to come in the mail, wondering if it even would come at all, were brutal. There were several "halodrol gave me gyno" posts popping up around that time, so I would suggest you get some letro just in case you have an emergency and forma isn't strong enough.

For PCT you my want to look into clomiphene. Halodrol is pretty mild, but the clomiphene will do a better job of restarting your HPTA, whereas nolva is better at preventing gyno. The ideal PCT IMO would include both, but maybe thats overkill for halodrol.

 

[nbshazeezee]

You're gonna scare the poor guy man^

 

[blacklac]

I'd swap 1-DHEA with Osta for something on the extremely mild side. I wouldn't bulk on Osta. Then decide from there. 1-DHEA vs something a bit harsher/stronger.

 

[stespiel]

Yes, never start without a strong AI on hand. My nipples started itching/tingling/burning/cramping like crazy on halodrol and only letro was strong enough to stop it. Those days waiting for my anti E to come in the mail, wondering if it even would come at all, were brutal. There were several "halodrol gave me gyno" posts popping up around that time, so I would suggest you get some letro just in case you have an emergency and forma isn't strong enough.

For PCT you my want to look into clomiphene. Halodrol is pretty mild, but the clomiphene will do a better job of restarting your HPTA, whereas nolva is better at preventing gyno. The ideal PCT IMO would include both, but maybe thats overkill for halodrol.

Ok I'll snag some letro in case I get gyno symptoms on cycle and the forma doesn't work. How long would I give the forma before I switch to letro? And if this happens I can keep running the hdrol alongside, right?

For pct god that sounds like a lot running clomid and nolva for a halo only cycle..

 

[aoeu]

Ok I'll snag some letro in case I get gyno symptoms on cycle and the forma doesn't work. How long would I give the forma before I switch to letro? And if this happens I can keep running the hdrol alongside, right?

For pct god that sounds like a lot running clomid and nolva for a halo only cycle..

I don't have an exact answer for time, but it looks like forma absorbs through the skin over 12 hours and then has a 12 hour half life. So if you even get gyno symptoms, and forma doesn't start helping within 2-3 days, it probably won't ever. With letro, all it took was a few drops of the liquid and the activity in my nipples was completely gone within a few hours.

I finished my cycle, but who are we kidding? Most of us on here wouldn't abort a cycle over anything!

And yes, nolva/clomid is a strong PCT, but halodrol (despite its reputation for being mild) is still strong stuff and can still shut you down. Lots of people (myself included) have recovered from halo just fine with only nolva. All I'm saying is I would probably incorporate Clomid if I did it again myself, but nobody is going to worry if you dont. Just do your research to make an informed and you'll be fine either way.

 

[stespiel]

I don't have an exact answer for time, but it looks like forma absorbs through the skin over 12 hours and then has a 12 hour half life. So if you even get gyno symptoms, and forma doesn't start helping within 2-3 days, it probably won't ever. With letro, all it took was a few drops of the liquid and the activity in my nipples was completely gone within a few hours.

I finished my cycle, but who are we kidding? Most of us on here wouldn't abort a cycle over anything!

And yes, nolva/clomid is a strong PCT, but halodrol (despite its reputation for being mild) is still strong stuff and can still shut you down. Lots of people (myself included) have recovered from halo just fine with only nolva. All I'm saying is I would probably incorporate Clomid if I did it again myself, but nobody is going to worry if you dont. Just do your research to make an informed and you'll be fine either way.

thanks for the advice, i read some of your posts and it looks like you had some scary stuff going on. i'll grab clomid just in case. better safe than sorry.

i'm going to fire up a new thread and make sure i'm ready to go.. thanks again guys.

 

[GoTigers]

LeanEngineer, do you know if they'll ship overseas if your billing address is in the US but the shipping address is international? I keep a US bank account but don't have a credit card in the country I'm living in. Had problems with this & haven't figured out how to get around it.

 

[bert45]

LeanEngineer, do you know if they'll ship overseas if your billing address is in the US but the shipping address is international? I keep a US bank account but don't have a credit card in the country I'm living in. Had problems with this & haven't figured out how to get around it.

Ooo you goin ta jail now!!!!

 

[GoTigers]

I know each person is different but for what it's worth, I did 3 cycles of epistane over the course of a year and a half and experienced no hair loss whatsoever.

 

[SkwatAndPull]

Epi is great for powerlifting, IMO. I've used it going into two different meets combined with 500 mg/week test e and loved it. Took low does epi starting 4 weeks out.