First shot at 5/3/1 - any advice?

[rockme]

Definitely not enough time to see if the program worked or not. Either didn't know their max or didn't calculate correctly. That's what it seems like to me. But I may be wrong

You are wrong bro. I'm very detailed and organized when it comes to my training/nutrition. I ran 5/3/1 accordingly for 4 weeks. BTW, that formula he gives for theorizing your 1RM gives you a very liberal number

 

[rockme]

what is this, 3rd grade?


^^this, is high talking...

If you need a deload every 4th week, your nutrition/recovery components are sorely lacking. Furthermore, if you did this, you would spend 3 months out of the year deloading! :lmao:

 

[Swanson52]

If you need a deload every 4th week, your nutrition/recovery components are sorely lacking. Furthermore, if you did this, you would spend 3 months out of the year deloading! :lmao:

While I don't necessarily disagree, I think the point of the deload is to stay ahead of the possible overtraining issue.

Instead of burning out, you stay "fresh", allowing (theoretically) more consistent heavy training.

 

[Sean1332]

http://www.jimwendler.com/2012/01/more-on-the-deload/

 

[napalm]

If you need a deload every 4th week, your nutrition/recovery components are sorely lacking. Furthermore, if you did this, you would spend 3 months out of the year deloading! :lmao:

That's complete nonsense. At a month from 49, 30+ years in the gym, 5 shoulder surgeries, 5 knee surgeries, 2 wrist surgeries and pins in two of my fingers, 5 yrs of racing mountain bikes semi professionally and competing in powerlifting for a few years now, I look forward to the deload weeks.

 

[PaulBlack]

That's complete nonsense. At a month from 49, 30+ years in the gym, 5 shoulder surgeries, 5 knee surgeries, 2 wrist surgeries and pins in two of my fingers, 5 yrs of racing mountain bikes semi professionally and competing in powerlifting for a few years now, I look forward to the deload weeks.

Hahaha, I am ready for a deload just reading that post guy...!

 

[Sean1332]

That's complete nonsense. At a month from 49, 30+ years in the gym, 5 shoulder surgeries, 5 knee surgeries, 2 wrist surgeries and pins in two of my fingers, 5 yrs of racing mountain bikes semi professionally and competing in powerlifting for a few years now, I look forward to the deload weeks.

Did you fall off a mountain or something?

 

[napalm]

Did you fall off a mountain or something?

More than once, and I left out the concussions and skull fractures

When man meets tree, tree wins most of the time...

 

[Sean1332]

More than once, and I left out the concussions and skull fractures

When man meets tree, tree wins most of the time...

Well I hope you phucked that tree up real good. Damn.

 

[Rodja]

If you need a deload every 4th week, your nutrition/recovery components are sorely lacking. Furthermore, if you did this, you would spend 3 months out of the year deloading! :lmao:

Curious as to what kind of numbers you're pushing around to make claims like this. I'm pretty damn sure I lift a hell of a lot more than you and I deload every 3-4 weeks.

 

[LizKing531]

That's complete nonsense. At a month from 49, 30+ years in the gym, 5 shoulder surgeries, 5 knee surgeries, 2 wrist surgeries and pins in two of my fingers, 5 yrs of racing mountain bikes semi professionally and competing in powerlifting for a few years now, I look forward to the deload weeks.

Jeezus....wow.... yeah that sounds fun... :/

 

[napalm]

Curious as to what kind of numbers you're pushing around to make claims like this. I'm pretty damn sure I lift a hell of a lot more than you and I deload every 3-4 weeks.

Don't bother rodja. His super recovery powers and hoooge legs (at 185 ) will surely prevail...

 

[Rodja]

Don't bother rodja. His super recovery powers and hoooge legs (at 185 ) will surely prevail...

I'm 220 with massive legs, but I wouldn't dare claim to be a mesomorph.

 

[napalm]

I'm 220 with massive legs, but I wouldn't dare claim to be a mesomorph.

That's why I suggested he gain 50 lbs before making that claim...

 

[Rodja]

That's why I suggested he gain 50 lbs before making that claim...

I have met very, very few true mesomorphs and none of them were under 200lbs. ****, they were usually closer to 220.

 

[LizKing531]

I just noticed that it looks like I bought the 1st instead of 2nd edition ... much of a change between them?

 

[napalm]

I just noticed that it looks like I bought the 1st instead of 2nd edition ... much of a change between them?

I wouldn't think so, I have the 1st edition as well. hopefully someone with the 2nd edition will chime in.

 

[Sean1332]

Same here. 1st edition & PLing edition.

what if Wendler says something in the 2nd edition that could have put a 100lbs onto my total!

 

[napalm]

PLing edition.

I think I'm gonna pick this one up on Friday, I can f'ing quote the 1st edition...

 

[Rodja]

I just noticed that it looks like I bought the 1st instead of 2nd edition ... much of a change between them?

There's mainly new additions and twists to 5/3/1. The heart of the book remains the same, Wendler just added new ways to integrate the philosophy into other methods.

 

[Swanson52]

I think the 2nd edition adds/addresses rest pause sets for accessory work. When I'm on my desktop I'll look-posting from phone & memory.

I'd wager r/p accessory work would meet Dorian Jr's volume/intensity requirement.

 

[Swanson52]

FYI;

Wendler has retooled his philosophy on the deload week. He, himself, posted this today on his forum;

The important thing about the deload is to keep your body active and keep YOU on a schedule. I now recommend this set up:

Week/Set-Reps

1. 3x5
2. 3x3
3. 5/3/1
4. 3x5
5. 3x3
6. 5/3/1
7. Deload

Obviously, on week 4 you increase your TM like you normally would. This gives you a 6 week cycle to help focus you on a specific goal, assistance template or 5/3/1 set/rep variation. ANYONE can do anything for 6 weeks, no matter how hard.

/Wendler

That's the very latest, straight from the man who wrote the program.

 

[rockme]

Curious as to what kind of numbers you're pushing around to make claims like this. I'm pretty damn sure I lift a hell of a lot more than you and I deload every 3-4 weeks.

My numbers are actually quite pathetic right now after being obsessed with bodybuilding/being lean for the past 12+ mos. But I've always looked stronger than I actually am, so I don't really care. I don't doubt you are stronger than me, but I'm pretty damn sure I look a hell of a lot better than you. But I digress... 315 dead, 225 bench, 275 squat. When I weighed 205 the maxes were 470 dead, 290 bench, 375 squat. Never been the strongest lb for lb. But have always been of the bodybuilding persuasion, so as long as my legs look like they can squat 405, and my chest looks like it can hit 315, it's all good! :sly:

 

[gymguy21]

FYI;

Wendler has retooled his philosophy on the deload week. He, himself, posted this today on his forum;

The important thing about the deload is to keep your body active and keep YOU on a schedule. I now recommend this set up:

Week/Set-Reps

1. 3x5
2. 3x3
3. 5/3/1
4. 3x5
5. 3x3
6. 5/3/1
7. Deload

Obviously, on week 4 you increase your TM like you normally would. This gives you a 6 week cycle to help focus you on a specific goal, assistance template or 5/3/1 set/rep variation. ANYONE can do anything for 6 weeks, no matter how hard.

/Wendler

That's the very latest, straight from the man who wrote the program.

Nice actually looks like a good revision for the 5/3/1 program. I didn't mind the deload how it was but this is a nice variation to use aswell

 

[rockme]

That's complete nonsense. At a month from 49, 30+ years in the gym, 5 shoulder surgeries, 5 knee surgeries, 2 wrist surgeries and pins in two of my fingers, 5 yrs of racing mountain bikes semi professionally and competing in powerlifting for a few years now, I look forward to the deload weeks.

Oh...:surprised:. Sorry man. Didn't realize you were almost 50. I tip my hat to you sir for still being in the iron game. But I still stand behind my previous opinions. At 32, deloads for me come every 8-12 weeks, but obviously it's going to be different for you.

 

[rockme]

Don't bother rodja. His super recovery powers and hoooge legs (at 185 ) will surely prevail...

What is this 3rd grade?! :lame:

 

[rockme]

Body type is not reflective of bodyweight. You guys seem to be fixated on weighing over 200 lbs. :toofunny: A meso will have the upside down triangle structure with shorter legs and longer upper torso, women will typically have an hour glass figure. In addition to this, he will often have developed legs even as a juvenile. The meso also looks older than his actual age as a teen, displaying a mature look a few years beyond his age. They also gain weight and or lose weight quickly. Bone structure is also indicative, if your middle finger and thumb overlap your wrist and just touch.

Ectos are rectangular shaped, have a flat chest and thin legs, have trouble gaining weight, and when wrapping thumb and middle finger around wrist they will overlap. They are also skinny and gawky looking as a juvenile, often looking younger than they actually are.

Endos are round shaped with a high waist. They have a hard time losing weight, but an easy time gaining muscle. They also usually have smallish hands and short arms. They are often chubby as kids and display a maturity look that is often spot on or a little younger than they actually ar as a juvenile. When wrapping thumb and middle finger around wrist they do not touch.

 

[napalm]

Oh...:surprised:. Sorry man. Didn't realize you were almost 50. I tip my hat to you sir for still being in the iron game. But I still stand behind my previous opinions. At 32, deloads for me come every 8-12 weeks, but obviously it's going to be different for you.

Let's see, whose ideas and opinions on training gets more weight: a guy who squatted 1k, or some skinny douche on a forum who thinks he has huge legs and has a bad habit of repeating the definitions of ecto/meso/endomorphs for all to read?

It's pretty clear to me...

 

[jimbuick]

My numbers are actually quite pathetic right now after being obsessed with bodybuilding/being lean for the past 12+ mos. But I've always looked stronger than I actually am, so I don't really care. I don't doubt you are stronger than me, but I'm pretty damn sure I look a hell of a lot better than you. But I digress... 315 dead, 225 bench, 275 squat. When I weighed 205 the maxes were 470 dead, 290 bench, 375 squat. Never been the strongest lb for lb. But have always been of the bodybuilding persuasion, so as long as my legs look like they can squat 405, and my chest looks like it can hit 315, it's all good! :sly:

I agree. Fairly pathetic.

I run distance every day (not by choice mind you), weigh considerably less than you (164 yesterday morning), and beat you on everything but BP (and you only have me by 5lbs.)....

But you know more than Wendler, right?

 

[compudog]

My numbers are actually quite pathetic right now after being obsessed with bodybuilding/being lean for the past 12+ mos. But I've always looked stronger than I actually am, so I don't really care. I don't doubt you are stronger than me, but I'm pretty damn sure I look a hell of a lot better than you. But I digress... 315 dead, 225 bench, 275 squat. When I weighed 205 the maxes were 470 dead, 290 bench, 375 squat. Never been the strongest lb for lb. But have always been of the bodybuilding persuasion, so as long as my legs look like they can squat 405, and my chest looks like it can hit 315, it's all good! :sly:

I'm 46 and I do squat 405 (last week), I've also done 495 in a rack pull (this month) & normally get 405 off the floor without too much fuss, and I bench 280. Got 275 for a double on Monday in fact. I'm also skinnier than you at 5'9 & 190, but I bet I'm also bigger. My chest is at least 46" and my legs are around 27". So no, weight does not tell the whole story in terms of how much muscle a person is carrying. We don't have uniform skeletons. Some people at skinny at 200 lb, some are immensly fat, both might be the same strength or different, there's just too many variables.

Now, being a full 14 years older than you I doubt I look better than you, but from what you wrote I'm pretty sure I'm quite a bit stronger, and I mostly got that way doing 531. So if you think 531 won't work for you after running it for 1 month you're probably wrong. There's no program that's going to work or not work in 1 month, and there's good reasons for that. Specifically, there is a technical element to lifts. You have to get good at the lifts before you can use them to get stronger, and 1 month is not long enough to do that. People who change routines frequently are not going to see much for gains for this very reason.

BTW all this business about ectoplasmic whatever is pure nonsense. There's absolutely no science behind it that I can see, it appears to be someone's opinion that's got turned into gospel, something that happens all too often in the ftness world, there's even a name for it, bro-science. Might as well be no-science.

 

[jimbuick]

Body type is not reflective of bodyweight. You guys seem to be fixated on weighing over 200 lbs. :toofunny: A meso will have the upside down triangle structure with shorter legs and longer upper torso, women will typically have an hour glass figure. In addition to this, he will often have developed legs even as a juvenile. The meso also looks older than his actual age as a teen, displaying a mature look a few years beyond his age. They also gain weight and or lose weight quickly. Bone structure is also indicative, if your middle finger and thumb overlap your wrist and just touch.

Ectos are rectangular shaped, have a flat chest and thin legs, have trouble gaining weight, and when wrapping thumb and middle finger around wrist they will overlap. They are also skinny and gawky looking as a juvenile, often looking younger than they actually are.

Endos are round shaped with a high waist. They have a hard time losing weight, but an easy time gaining muscle. They also usually have smallish hands and short arms. They are often chubby as kids and display a maturity look that is often spot on or a little younger than they actually ar as a juvenile. When wrapping thumb and middle finger around wrist they do not touch.

And my finger and thumb don't overlap but I definitely have issues gaining weight, and look younger than I am.

Strange, I must be an anomaly. (Or maybe people aren't as cut and dry as you like to think)

 

[Rodja]

My numbers are actually quite pathetic right now after being obsessed with bodybuilding/being lean for the past 12+ mos. But I've always looked stronger than I actually am, so I don't really care. I don't doubt you are stronger than me, but I'm pretty damn sure I look a hell of a lot better than you. But I digress... 315 dead, 225 bench, 275 squat. When I weighed 205 the maxes were 470 dead, 290 bench, 375 squat. Never been the strongest lb for lb. But have always been of the bodybuilding persuasion, so as long as my legs look like they can squat 405, and my chest looks like it can hit 315, it's all good! :sly:

Another weak person giving out advice and critique on a strength template. There's a freaking shock. Seriously, one of my training partners 14 year old, 140lb DAUGHTER squats more than you.

 

[rockme]

Let's see, whose ideas and opinions on training gets more weight: a guy who squatted 1k, or some skinny douche on a forum who thinks he has huge legs and has a bad habit of repeating the definitions of ecto/meso/endomorphs for all to read?

It's pretty clear to me...

1k squat, huh? I believe you. But I would like to see the depth/form on that. Did you have a suit on with wraps, straps, big ass belt? I don't lift with anything other than occasional chalk; I'm not saying that makes me superior, just noting it. I also squat ass to the grass with plenty of TUT.

I had to elaborate on the endo/ecto/meso terms because some of you endomorphs seem to think that what the scale says is the determining factor.

You think my legs are skinny? Damn, I have got to see your wheels, dude. You must have some tree stumps! Put a pic up of them and I will do the same. In fact, put up a whole body shot and I will have my girl take a pic of me right now, cold, no food, no pump, and we will see who looks more like an athlete. Oh yeah, I am under the assumption you are natty. Yes?

And what's with the name calling? Those are some mondo cyber balls you got there!

 

[jimbuick]

1k squat, huh? I believe you. But I would like to see the depth/form on that. Did you have a suit on with wraps, straps, big ass belt? I don't lift with anything other than occasional chalk; I'm not saying that makes me superior, just noting it. I also squat ass to the grass with plenty of TUT.

I had to elaborate on the endo/ecto/meso terms because some of you endomorphs seem to think that what the scale says is the determining factor.

You think my legs are skinny? Damn, I have got to see your wheels, dude. You must have some tree stumps! Put a pic up of them and I will do the same. In fact, put up a whole body shot and I will have my girl take a pic of me right now, cold, no food, no pump, and we will see who looks more like an athlete. Oh yeah, I am under the assumption you are natty. Yes?

And what's with the name calling? Those are some mondo cyber balls you got there!

He's talking about Jim Wendler, you know...the guy who has actually accomplished something as a lifter,and has years of experience that you (or many on this board) don't have. You must know who I'm talking about, since you think you know more than him.

 

[Swanson52]

^^^^^ While equipped, I GURARANTEE the depth met the parallel requirement of every PL federation. Form? Really? It's not a press, you can't squirm your way to a 1/2 ton squat.

You're arguing aesthetics in a thread about a strength program. We don't give a damn about aesthetics, we're here to push iron. Period.

I, for one, simply do not care how you look. You are more "cut" than I am. Do you know why? Because I don't CARE about being lean. I want to be big, I want to lift heavy shyt, and that's it.

Comprende?

 

[Rodja]

 

[rockme]

I agree. Fairly pathetic.

I run distance every day (not by choice mind you), weigh considerably less than you (164 yesterday morning), and beat you on everything but BP (and you only have me by 5lbs.)....

But you know more than Wendler, right?

This is not unusual. There is a tall, skinny guy at my gym that stands 6'2 and weighs 215. He squats 500, pulls 575, and benches 320. But my physique is far better than his. What's your point? I never claimed to be the boss on strength. I am much more concerned with the finished visual result.

I certainly know more about training and eating to look like a bodybuilder/athlete than Wendler. Or maybe I don't and he's just an undisciplined man with a sweet tooth and a taste for all things fried who prefers to hoist hevy weights with no concern for the visual reuslt. It's possible. I mean, this is a bodybuilding/powerlifting forum, so I was just under the assumption that we all trained to achieve a certain look.

 

[bolt10]

I feel sad about what this thread has become...so much fail going on.

Completely serious question...you really feel you added appreciable amounts of mass despite huge drops in strength over the past year?

 

[Rodja]

This is not unusual. There is a tall, skinny guy at my gym that stands 6'2 and weighs 215. He squats 500, pulls 575, and benches 320. But my physique is far better than his. What's your point? I never claimed to be the boss on strength. I am much more concerned with the finished visual result.I certainly know more about training and eating to look like a bodybuilder/athlete than Wendler. Or maybe I don't and he's just an undisciplined man with a sweet tooth and a taste for all things fried who prefers to hoist hevy weights with no concern for the visual reuslt. It's possible. I mean, this is a bodybuilding/powerlifting forum, so I was just under the assumption that we all trained to achieve a certain look.

Powerlifting is about a look? WTF!?
BTW, here's Wendler now:

 

[rockme]

Another weak person giving out advice and critique on a strength template. There's a freaking shock. Seriously, one of my training partners 14 year old, 140lb DAUGHTER squats more than you.

So what? I saw a 14 year old girl bench 275 (50 lbs more than me) on Dana Linn Bailey's youtube channel. She had all her gear on with the most insane arch and super wide grip that allowed for a paltry range of motion. I don't train that way. I train for hypertrophy. I want to get stronger of course, but not at the expense of the latter. The fact that your training partner's daughter squats more than me means absolutely jack squat to me. There are too many variables at play anyways.

 

[rockme]

I feel sad about what this thread has become...so much fail going on.

Completely serious question...you really feel you added appreciable amounts of mass despite huge drops in strength over the past year?

It was awesome to get into the kind of condition I did over the summer. Got lots of attention in the gym, but I got so impressed with it that I tried staying with it too long and did waste away some months that should have been rerouted back to mass and strength. BTW, I did use Erase Pro and ABE to assist me in getting there. Super pumped to run the same stack again this summer

 

[jimbuick]

Condition?

 

[Rodja]

So what? I saw a 14 year old girl bench 275 (50 lbs more than me) on Dana Linn Bailey's youtube channel. She had all her gear on with the most insane arch and super wide grip that allowed for a paltry range of motion. I don't train that way. I train for hypertrophy. I want to get stronger of course, but not at the expense of the latter. The fact that your training partner's daughter squats more than me means absolutely jack squat to me. There are too many variables at play anyways.

By gear you mean wrist wraps, which are allowed in nearly every raw federation out there, and a legal width grip? An arch is the proper way to bench and the fact that you're trying to rationalize to yourself is pretty sad.

 

[bolt10]

Ok I was just wondering because I think it would be a poor choice to neglect strength as an aspiring natty bodybuilder. All the best ones I follow seem to be strong as hell as well as being muscular..

 

[Rodja]

Ok I was just wondering because I think it would be a poor choice to neglect strength as an aspiring natty bodybuilder. All the best ones I follow seem to be strong as hell as well as being muscular..

Bingo. I have no clue as to why strength has become the bastard step-son of the lifting world, but it's one of the worst shifts in paradigm in the recent decades.

 

[rockme]

I cannot do that. But the range of motion is nothing. He would get much better growth if he sqauted all the way down and up, sans the gear too. But to each his own

 

[jimbuick]

I cannot do that. But the range of motion is nothing. He would get much better growth if he sqauted all the way down and up, sans the gear too. But to each his own

Lol because you are more muscular than him. :biglaugh:

 

[Swanson52]

I cannot do that. But the range of motion is nothing. He would get much better growth if he sqauted all the way down and up, sans the gear too. But to each his own

You're straight up trolling now. :shaking:

 

[rockme]

Lol because you are more muscular than him. :biglaugh:

I will take my look and strength over his look and strength. Thanks.

 

[rockme]

You're straight up trolling now. :shaking:

I don't even know what that means