First Anabolic Cycle - Please Provide your Inputs

[gdawg522]

Bump for some input on the bloodwork. I thought everyone would be excited for the bloodwork as it looks like most people forget about how important this is...

 

[Hyde]

Your test is low because you’ve been on cycle for 8 weeks. It will be much better 4-6 weeks from now. I’m surprised liver enzymes are that high while on TUDCA - where you taking at least 500mg of it daily?

 

[hairygrandpa]

Interesting that andros apparently are that harsh on the liver. Or did you drink alcohol on cycle? Just asking.

 

[TMloc]

Very interesting (the high liver values from andros)could it be he possibly started with out of range values and the cycled just strained his liver further.

 

[Old Witch]

Interesting that andros apparently are that harsh on the liver. Or did you drink alcohol on cycle? Just asking.

Actually if you look at that 330mg per day 1 andro study they did note elevated liver enzymes.

I took it and drank on it, felt the stress for sure like night and day vs plain old drinking or just taking the 1 andro. reminded me of the time I got drunk (edit absolutely demolished smashed) while running winstrol.

When I woke up the next morning, my liver was sitting next to me on the couch with a cigarette and a cup of coffee saying, “You’re an ass hole.”

 

[Rad83]

Solid cycle, great gains!

What does everyone think “the real mvp” was? The 1andro, or the combo of em all...?

...and The obligatory, have any hair shedding question ?

 

[gdawg522]

Hey guys!! thanks for the responses. I did ZERO drinking while on cycle. The last 2 weeks of the cycle i upped the 1 Andro to 440mg daily!! I am not sure I can say who the real star was of this cycle. The liver values are pretty bad. I ran TUDCA at the correct doses but I honestly don't think that can truly protect against everything. I don't feel terrible right now though. Strength is still there so is the size I believe.

Rad83: No hair Shedding noticed at all
TMloc: I did not do any prior blood work for liver values specifically but i will find my most recent lab before the cycle and confirm.

 

[Hyde]

Yeah the comparison between cycles is relevant.

I’m not worried about your liver at all btw.

 

[gdawg522]

Hyde: Not worried as in these values are not extreme or will bounce back to normal in a few weeks? I'll do another blood work draw around early March.

 

[TMloc]

High numbers are high numbers regardless of what category they're put in. While these numbers certainly aren't life threatening but definitely something different than the old "andros aren't liver toxic that's been associated with them thus far"and certainly worth the small dialogue.

I am sure Hyde myself and others are pretty sure those values will get back to an exceptional range rather quickly but again those numbers aren't just the norm that's associated with andros. But overall good resu!ts/gains

 

[gdawg522]

TMloc: I knew from the very start that these Andros are not liver friendly. The study showed that but it was good to actually do the bloodwork myself and see the effects. I will stay tuned into this thread and not "Drop off" into darkness a few months down the road. We'll see how quickly everything returns to healthy levels.

"Kidney and Liver Function
Participants in the Prohormone and Placebo groups did not differ on their serum creatinine (P = 0.916), albumin (P = 0.641) ALP (P = 0.503), and AST (P = 0.744) concentrations at study onset. Their GFRs (P = 0.961) were also not different at baseline. Major differences did become evident following the 1-mo supplemented resistance training period. Participants in the Prohormone group exhibited significant changes in their serum creatinine (P = 0.001), albumin (P = 0.025), ALP (P = 0.023), and AST (P = 0.053) concentrations, as well as their GFRs (P = 0.001), over the course of the study. Not one of these variables changed in the Placebo group (creatinine: P = 0.604; GFR: P = 0.580; albumin: P = 0.893; ALP: P = 0.407; AST: P = 0.577). "

 

[Hyde]

Hyde: Not worried as in these values are not extreme or will bounce back to normal in a few weeks? I'll do another blood work draw around early March.

Both.

Your total bilirubin in your blood is super low - when cells are dying in the liver passages collapse and block the flow of bile, which has to go somewhere and then leaks into the bloodstream. 0.3 Total Bilirubin implies things are flowing smoothly. Jaundice typically isn’t a concern until you’re surpassing like 3.0-3.5 total.

Whenever the liver is working hard you’ll see AST & ALT elevate, but stress doesn’t necessarily imply damage. And these numbers would only be an issue if they were forever. The liver regenerates well if you give it breaks and don’t push it so hard it scars.

 

[gdawg522]

Hyde: Thanks for the details man I appreciate you sharing the knowledge. So you are saying that overall things are ok. I see the AST and ALT are essentially 80 IU/L Out of range but that doesnt' tell me if that is extreme or simply elevated. As in I don't know how high it could really go.

 

[Hyde]

Hyde: Thanks for the details man I appreciate you sharing the knowledge. So you are saying that overall things are ok. I see the AST and ALT are essentially 80 IU/L Out of range but that doesnt' tell me if that is extreme or simply elevated. As in I don't know how high it could really go.

I mean there are guys on dbol with no liver support that don’t get past the 60s, and I’ve heard of guys going into 200s on some high oral doses. It’s mainly relative. My baseline AST & ALT numbers have always been just shy of the top of the normal range off cycle.

The important thing is you return to precycle numbers within a couple months.

 

[Smont]

Hello all: Labwork is in now!! This was done after 4 days of starting PCT. Please let me know if anything is off here. I am concerned that test total is sooo low especially after this 8 week cycle unless this is showing me being shut down.

Takeaways:
High BUN (kidneys working hard?)
High AST (liver issues from Andros?)
High ALT (liver issues from Andros?)
Low total Test (?)

View attachment 178481

EDIT: I finally got this attached. Link sharing was not working. Thank you all!

If you work out within 2-3 days of bloodwork your liver enzymes will be outta range

 

[Smont]

Interesting that andros apparently are that harsh on the liver. Or did you drink alcohol on cycle? Just asking.

Your liver can be outta wack just from hitting the gym. Andros didnt do it

 

[gdawg522]

Smont: Not sure I buy that answer on the liver value related to the andros. I have ran one other cycle on them and the liver values were impacted in the same way. I also see your study though on elevated liver values after heavy weight lifting. I had this bloodwork done on tuesday after 2 days rest from the gym.

 

[Smont]

Smont: Not sure I buy that answer on the liver value related to the andros. I have ran one other cycle on them and the liver values were impacted in the same way. I also see your study though on elevated liver values after heavy weight lifting. I had this bloodwork done on tuesday after 2 days rest from the gym.

Hard to say. I had liver come back in range after 5 weeks on superdrol once, can't see andros doing it

 

[gdawg522]

Hey guys. Still here. Now in week 3 of PCT. This will be my last week of 10 mg daily Nolva. I started a very minor dose of dex as I am seeing some water retention and puffiness. I am doing .25mg daily now into my 3rd day of this dose.

Overall, I feel softer but strength has not gone down. I am weighing about 195lb in the morning dry so I have lost some weight since the peak of the bulk on cycle.

Would love to answer any questions anyone has or hear some thoughts. Thanks

 

[gdawg522]

Alright guys wrapped up PCT and seem to be feeling alright. I got the flu for the last 7 days and I feel like i have lost all my strength! We'll see how this week goes now that I'm feeling better. Weight is around 194 after the flu so I lost some weight but it's soon going to be time to shred.

What are your recommendations for a solid 8-12 week cutting protocol. I was thinking of running LipoDrene yellow and try the True Shred product by Hard Rock Supps. Any input is welcome! I will start cutting at the end of this month most likely.

 

[gdawg522]

Also I will be getting bloodwork done again soon in about another week. Stay tuned for the follow up

 

[gdawg522]

Hello Everyone!! Thread revival again but I wanted to do something that no one on the board does. I did a follow up bloodwork panel yesterday which is well after my PCT window and I am not into my shredding program for 12 weeks. I am in week 4. Please see the attachment and compare. NOTE that the liver values have recovered and Testosterone, Estrogen, FSH and LH are within range!!! I appreciate any thoughts or feedback here.

 

[Hyde]

Consider a low dose of exemestane for a bit to get estrogen down and help raise test further. Nothing killer, like 12.5 eod or even 6.25mg eod for 2-3 weeks.

 

[Hyde]

Also, don’t train for 2 days before you have bloods pulled and you will get better liver enzyme & bun/creatine numbers.

 

[gdawg522]

Hyde: I'll give that a try. I have some on hand right now. Thank you for looking over this!

 

[Hyde]

Hyde: I'll give that a try. I have some on hand right now. Thank you for looking over this!

Sure, thanks for sharing with the community