Critique my first epi cycle

[Frank1983]

I've been researching and cobbling together all the epistane cycle threads for a few weeks. Here's what I've got. Please let me know what I'm missing, advice, etc. Based on recs, I'll revise this and see if I'm good to go. I'm already taking liv52 and hope to have this all pieced together by January 1. Years of lifting experience, macros are on point. I'm in my early 30's. I did try a super dmz cycle a couple of months ago and got so sick and bloated that I quit on day 4.

Epistane 20/30/30/30/30/30
Cycle Assist
Taurine, Multivitamin, fish oil, liv52, etc.

PCT
Nolvadex 20/20/10/10 (or resveratrol?)
DAA 3grams daily

Hcg? Gyno stuff?

 

[LeanEngineer]

You could maybe have a good AI on hand just incase. If you want to check some out over at strong supplement shop you can.
http://www.strongsupplementshop.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=aromatase+inhibitor

 

[Frank1983]

I have some PES erase. Do I need something stronger? Is there a standard AI protocol if I get gyno symptoms?

Another thought- would running cycle assist and liv52 be overkill? I've also got NAC on hand.

 

[ClarkKent]

Go ahead and just start at 30mg and run it all the way through unless you feel like bumping the dosage up the last couple of weeks of the cycle.

And like LeanEngineer said, grab an AI. I personally like formestane

OL - Transform
BLR - Formeron
IronFlex - Formabolic

These are all good ones. ^ You shouldn't need it for on cycle, but you can run it starting week 3 of PCT and continuing it 2 weeks past your last nolva dose.

Nolva 20/20/10/10
DAA 3/3/3/3/3/3
Form 0/0/2/2/2/2

 

[Swade]

Could something like Form XT be run at the end of a nolvabex pct ?

 

[teoteo]

Form xt is an otc pct product.of course you can use it along with your serm.as the other bros have stated,start at 30 and then advance accordingly. 40 is the sweet spot of many.

 

[mountainman33]

I've been researching and cobbling together all the epistane cycle threads for a few weeks. Here's what I've got. Please let me know what I'm missing, advice, etc. Based on recs, I'll revise this and see if I'm good to go. I'm already taking liv52 and hope to have this all pieced together by January 1. Years of lifting experience, macros are on point. I'm in my early 30's. I did try a super dmz cycle a couple of months ago and got so sick and bloated that I quit on day 4.

Epistane 20/30/30/30/30/30
Cycle Assist
Taurine, Multivitamin, fish oil, liv52, etc.

PCT
Nolvadex 20/20/10/10 (or resveratrol?)
DAA 3grams daily

Hcg? Gyno stuff?

You may want to try 40 mgs. during weeks 5 and 6 if you're feeling good about your cycle at that point. And Cycle Assist along with Liv52 shouldn't be an issue. But you WILL want an AI on hand as Epi has a reputation for rebound gyno. If you don't have forma then you will want something with arimistane:

http://www.strongsupplementshop.com/eradicate-by-blackstonelabs
http://www.strongsupplementshop.com/e-control-rx-2-0-by-ironmaglabs
http://www.strongsupplementshop.com/revolution-pct-black-by-finaflex

Go ahead and just start at 30mg and run it all the way through unless you feel like bumping the dosage up the last couple of weeks of the cycle.

And like LeanEngineer said, grab an AI. I personally like formestane

OL - Transform
BLR - Formeron
IronFlex - Formabolic

These are all good ones. ^ You shouldn't need it for on cycle, but you can run it starting week 3 of PCT and continuing it 2 weeks past your last nolva dose.

Nolva 20/20/10/10
DAA 3/3/3/3/3/3
Form 0/0/2/2/2/2

If he's had issues after only 4 days on his previous cycle he would be safer, and smarter, starting at 20 mgs. He may one of those unfortunate souls that has a hard time with methylated compounds. And DAA would only need to be run for 4 weeks. If he has forma, great, if not he's going to have to go another route due to forma being illegal now.

 

[Frank1983]

Update:
I'm about 2.5 weeks in and feeling fantastic. All my rep maxes on major lifts are up 10-20 pounds! I feel like a beginner on Starting Strength.
I do have a bit of bloat, which surprises me as I thought epi was really dry, but I'm also using dermacrine. I bought some e-control and will just run it pct as directed.

Sides: a little bloat, a little bit of joint stiffness, some pretty rough back pumps, even with 5g taurine. Overall I'm feeling great though. Libido is insane, setting PRs, recovery is shocking.
Should I bump up the epi to 40 next week?

 

[dbrock504]

Update: I'm about 2.5 weeks in and feeling fantastic. All my rep maxes on major lifts are up 10-20 pounds! I feel like a beginner on Starting Strength. I do have a bit of bloat, which surprises me as I thought epi was really dry, but I'm also using dermacrine. I bought some e-control and will just run it pct as directed. Sides: a little bloat, a little bit of joint stiffness, some pretty rough back pumps, even with 5g taurine. Overall I'm feeling great though. Libido is insane, setting PRs, recovery is shocking. Should I bump up the epi to 40 next week?

Yes bump it up. Your diet may be bloating you

 

[teoteo]

definately go to 40. increase the intake of taurine and have some bananas in ur meals. That would further help with the pumps

 

[yates84]

If you are making good gains on 30 and feel good there is no reason to bump it up imo. When gains stop or slow you should bump up

 

[LeanEngineer]

If you are making good gains on 30 and feel good there is no reason to bump it up imo. When gains stop or slow you should bump up

I would agree and especially since its your first epi cycle I would just leave it at 30 and see how you react. I forgot to link the epi info page earlier but here it is at Strong Supplement shop if you want to read some about epi.
http://www.strongsupplementshop.com/epistane-info

 

[Frank1983]

Id be surprised if it was diet. Im eating +500 over maintenence, but i got bloated pretty immediately. Salt intake is normal. Im eating 2 bananas a day and 90% of the rest of my carbs from potatoes.
How high should i go with the taurine? Im taking 2.5g in the morning and 2.5 preworkout.
Im curious if others also think i should bump it to 40. Sides are minimal, but im also gaining on 30.

 

[dbrock504]

Id be surprised if it was diet. Im eating +500 over maintenence, but i got bloated pretty immediately. Salt intake is normal. Im eating 2 bananas a day and 90% of the rest of my carbs from potatoes. How high should i go with the taurine? Im taking 2.5g in the morning and 2.5 preworkout. Im curious if others also think i should bump it to 40. Sides are minimal, but im also gaining on 30.

It's not always the quantity but quality. Regular potstoes or sweet potatoes? You need to slow the taters down and consume veggies and rice. Just my opinion. See if that helps you feel a little better.

 

[Frank1983]

Mostly sweet potatoes. I get what you're saying, but I purposely set my diet as a "control" so that i could see how my body reacted to the "variable" of the epistane. Ive been eating with very similar macros, micronutrients, and macro sources for a few years now. Leanish protein, potatoes and bananas, lots of non-starchy vegetables. The only variable that has changed is the epistane, but it seems to be universally agreed upon that epistane, if anything, would dry me out.
The only other guess i have is that perhaps the combination of epistane and pretty high volume training has upped my cortisol.

 

[dbrock504]

Mostly sweet potatoes. I get what you're saying, but I purposely set my diet as a "control" so that i could see how my body reacted to the "variable" of the epistane. Ive been eating with very similar macros, micronutrients, and macro sources for a few years now. Leanish protein, potatoes and bananas, lots of non-starchy vegetables. The only variable that has changed is the epistane, but it seems to be universally agreed upon that epistane, if anything, would dry me out. The only other guess i have is that perhaps the combination of epistane and pretty high volume training has upped my cortisol.

It's certainly possible. What are you taking for on cycle supps?

 

[Frank1983]

It's certainly possible. What are you taking for on cycle supps?

Vitallabs cycle support, liv52, NAC, fish oil, taurine, multi, cissus, bone broth, liver.

Could it be the dermacrine? When i wake up, im pretty ****ing stiff, but about an hour after the dermacrine im much more limber in my elbows and hips.

Between the stiff joints and flawless skin im experiencing, im pretty sure i can rule out high E, especially since im on epi. So... cortisol? Damn, im stumped, but my gains have been unreal and i feel otherwise healthy. Im up 15 pounds in weight. A lot of that is just some massive glycogen pump, but i am sad to see my six pack downgrade to a blurry 4.

 

[dbrock504]

Vitallabs cycle support, liv52, NAC, fish oil, taurine, multi, cissus, bone broth, liver. Could it be the dermacrine? When i wake up, im pretty ****ing stiff, but about an hour after the dermacrine im much more limber in my elbows and hips. Between the stiff joints and flawless skin im experiencing, im pretty sure i can rule out high E, especially since im on epi. So... cortisol? Damn, im stumped, but my gains have been unreal and i feel otherwise healthy. Im up 15 pounds in weight. A lot of that is just some massive glycogen pump, but i am sad to see my six pack downgrade to a blurry 4.

That's really odd for epistane. I wish I could help you, but I don't know much about dermacrine other than what it is and what it's used for

 

[dbrock504]

I do have a bit of bloat, which surprises me as I thought epi was really dry

I came on here trying to help, then I jump on epi and I'm a week through super bloated. Eating super clean hired a nutritionist. I had bad chicken a few days ago, but after I made new stuff I was ok. But 30 min after I take pills in am and pm I feel real bloated for a couple hours afterward.

 

[Frank1983]

Bummer man. I feel otherwise healthy, and my lifts are way up, so im just rolling with it. Whats your training like?

 

[dbrock504]

Bummer man. I feel otherwise healthy, and my lifts are way up, so im just rolling with it. Whats your training like?

Got a coach for that too. Lot of volume basically with 3 days low intense cardio on stair master

 

[dbrock504]

Bummer man. I feel otherwise healthy, and my lifts are way up, so im just rolling with it. Whats your training like?

You drinking enough water? Although I understand the importance of water, I work 12 hours out in the cold, so I drink little to none. Woke up this morning and noticed my right hand is yellow. Need to drink water!!!! Maybe that's upsetting our tummy!