Clear muscle, casual log, share your experiences!

[kissdadookie]

I understand you have before/after pics, but lets be real. Im not accusing you of lying, BUT I can log something and say thats all i am using but take that product along with something else and do before/after pics as well. There is honestly no way of knowing except trusting your word. But I will never touch a MT product ever.

So, essentially, end of the day is that you refuse to believe something works because of a bias against a company. Gotcha. Makes PERFECT sense. Using supplements apparently needs to be based on popularity/pissing contests of brand loyalty. So instead of objectivity, subjectivity is more important.

I guess it's that along with me somehow now the stay puffed marshmallow fatty according to fightnews. Gotcha.

 

[R1balla]

So, essentially, end of the day is that you refuse to believe something works because of a bias against a company. Gotcha. Makes PERFECT sense. Using supplements apparently needs to be based on popularity/pissing contests of brand loyalty. So instead of objectivity, subjectivity is more important.

I guess it's that along with me somehow now the stay puffed marshmallow fatty according to fightnews. Gotcha.

Everybody has their opinion. I can refuse to give my business to anyone. I would much rather give my $ to PES who has PROVEN products with a TON of logs on various forums vs a company that is known for making outrageous claims and over priced supplements.

and btw, every supplement review is subjective.

and if you want to be objective, then what is your definition of a "supplement that works"? If we are being objective, then MT made that crazy claim to gain x amount of weight and PURE muscle. Staying in the objective perspective, if you do not reach those stats, the product didnt work.

 

[kissdadookie]

Everybody has their opinion. I can refuse to give my business to anyone. I would much rather give my $ to PES who has PROVEN products with a TON of logs on various forums vs a company that is known for making outrageous claims and over priced supplements.

and btw, every supplement review is subjective.

So the mountains of data on HMB somehow to you is irrelevant? So basically, all this chatter about how HMB doesn't work coming from people looking at data for it's ANABOLIC potential matters when in reality the stuff CLEARY is a weak anabolic but mainly a anti-catabolic?

You do realize that the mechanism of action for HMB is one of the more well understood things out for a dietary supplement ingredient right? You also do realize that we have TWO studies done YEARS APART which have similar results correct? You do realize that if you look at feedback from people that claim the stuff doesn’t do anything have largely been from 1) people whom basically just never used the stuff and parroting what they think is right from what they see in forums/online and 2) people using the stuff expecting it to be a anabolic compound. You use the wrong tool for the job, you’re going to be disappointed. Plain and simple. If you know what the tool is to be used for and apply it properly, you’re going to benefit.

Lastly, LOGS FROM PEOPLE WHOM ARE INCREDIBLY SUSCEPTIBLE TO PLACEBO to you matters more than mountains of data like HMB has behind it? I’m not specifically talking about PES products, but products with lots of logs behind them. You’re basically questioning if HMB works or not, how many studies do you actually need before you accept that it does do what the data suggests it does?

Also, all reviews on SUPPLEMENTS are subjective? LOL. GET THE HECK OUT OF HERE. That is HILARIOUS. Either something works or it doesn't work. Isn't that the whole discussion in the first place over HMB-FA/CM? SUBJECTIVITY makes it nothing more than an opinion which in turn, it's like saying "if you believe it works then it works, if you believe it doesn't then it won't work." What kind of logic is that? Makes no sense. The problem with most reviews is that they are indeed subjective, thus making the value of the review utterly useless.

Lastly, your argument is kind of silly. We're discussing if the stuff worked/has value or not and your basically saying "It's all opinion and I get to choose whom to spend my money on." These are two different things, they are not one and the same. Something working or not is completely independent to ones personal opinion/like/dislike of a company.

 

[akazo]

I used 2 bottles of CM, busted my tail in the gym, and got nothing out of it... Sick volume that most people would probably say is not good.

I used the same routine running PA and gained 1 clean pound a week - no fat (based on my own body measurements). I used the same routine with epi and had very similar results.

PA is great, epi is good... CM, to me ( and is only my opinion), is garbage.

 

[kissdadookie]

I used 2 bottles of CM, busted my tail in the gym, and got nothing out of it... Sick volume that most people would probably say is not good.

I used the same routine running PA and gained 1 clean pound a week - no fat (based on my own body measurements). I used the same routine with epi and had very similar results.

PA is great, epi is good... CM, to me ( and is only my opinion), is garbage.

Define busted your tail.

I did use PA whilst using CM, the two worked well together (had been on PA for 40+ or so days prior to starting CM). I have a log on another board. Broke down every little bit of the 12 or so weeks.

 

[akazo]

I will type up 1 day to give you an idea... I did 6 days a week full body changing exercises each day...

All 5x10 except leg press and situps

Bench @ 185
DB Row @ 70
squats @ 200
lat pulldown @ 150 lbs
leg press 2x25 at highest setting
EZ Bar curls @ 85
skull crushers @ 85
front plate raise @ 50
decline situps with a 10lb plate 4x25

 

[kissdadookie]

I will type up 1 day to give you an idea... I did 6 days a week full body changing exercises each day...

All 5x10 except leg press and situps

Bench @ 185
DB Row @ 70
squats @ 200
lat pulldown @ 150 lbs
leg press 2x25 at highest setting
EZ Bar curls @ 85
skull crushers @ 85
front plate raise @ 50
decline situps with a 10lb plate 4x25

Mine, just a sample:

Seated DB Sh Press
70 x6 x7
65 2x8

Seated Banded DB Sh Press
45 x10 x8 x10

DB Lateral Raises
40 x12
45 2x12
50 x12

Seated DB Bent Over Rear Delt Flies
45 2x14
50 2x12

DB Shrugs
100 3x10

BB Shrugs from Front
205 3x10

BB Shrugs behind back
185 3x10

Glute Ham Raises
3x20

BB Squats
Bar x20
135 x20
225 + 40 lbs of chains x10 3x8

Standing Calf Raises with 60 lbs db’s on shoulders
2x20

That’s just my shoulders/traps/legs day.

Here’s a sample deadlifts/legs/abs+obliques day

Deadlifts
135 x12
135 + 50 lbs band resistance x12
225 + 50 lbs band resistance x12
275 + 50 lbs band resistance 3x6

Leg Press
450 x20
540 x20
770 x16

Seated Leg Curls
165 2x12
185 x11

Leg Extensions
160 2x20

Seated Calf Raises
160 2x20

Cable Woodchoppers
170 3x14

Hanging Leg Raises
3x20

DB Side Bends
95 3x14

Kneeling Cable Crunches
197.5 3x20

My deadlifts/legs/obliques+abs day follows my HIIT day. 5 days lift, 1 day HIIT conditioning + forearms work.

Just for fun, this is what a chest and tri day looks like for me (higher rep day, I have a higher weight push/pull day) :

DB Flat bench
90 2x8
85 2x8

DB Incline Bench
75 2x9 2x8

BB Flat Bench
Forgot what I did on these this week, but it was 4 sets 8-10 reps

BB Incline
Forgot what I did on these this week as well, 4 sets 8-12

Incline DB Flies
45 2x12
50 2x10

Cable Tri Pushdowns
195 x8
185 x8
175 x8

Dips
3x8

Machine OH Tri Extensions
80 x40

The shoulder press sample I think was from two weeks ago or something. Don't know when the deadlifts sample was from (took that from a random page on my log), etc.

 

[R1balla]

every review is subjective because everybody does not respond the same to every supplement. This thread is the clear example.

 

[kissdadookie]

every review is subjective because everybody does not respond the same to every supplement. This thread is the clear example.

It doesn't appear that you understand what the word subjective actually means.

 

[kisaj]

So now we are comparing routines to show that CM worked for someone and epi and PA work for most everyone else. What was the point of this again?

 

[akazo]

So now we are comparing routines to show that CM worked for someone and epi and PA work for most everyone else. What was the point of this again?

My point was that using the exact same routine, Follidrone and PA gave great results and CM did nothing for me.

 

[kissdadookie]

So now we are comparing routines to show that CM worked for someone and epi and PA work for most everyone else. What was the point of this again?

LoL. Photos from the start, midway point, and finish with my CM 12-weeks log. Routine and everything was listed as well. I got the results I got with as much proof as one can possibly provide over the internet. That's all I'm saying.

CM/HMB-FA isn't a works for some people and doesn't work for others. It's the conditions which dictates if you will yield benefit from the stuff. You do realize that this stuff has been demonstrated many times to be effective for treatment of muscle wasting right? In HIV and cancer patients no less. In the elderly. The stuff does what the stuff is supposed to do in the conditions it has been demonstrated to do these things in. It’s not a works on some people and doesn’t work on others. The stuff working or not depends on if you are placing yourself in a state where protein breakdown is an issue or not. The anabolic effects are actually coming from your training. The anabolic stimulus from the training is dependent on your training dose and how quickly you recover from it. Obviously what might be an effective training dose for me may not necessarily be enough for another person. The HMB does what it is supposed to do regardless. How much you progress with it again comes back to the training dose.

 

[kisaj]

My point was that using the exact same routine, Follidrone and PA gave great results and CM did nothing for me.

I know, it was kind of rhetorical and just pointing that this now turned into a dick measuring contest because of opinion that won't be changed.

 

[Swolbraham]

while i do believe everyone responds differently, i do believe CM works if your style of training fits to it. Situations where recovery can be an issue (high frequency training) it has trememdous benefits. I've been using it the past 13 weeks now, and to me it will be a staple since i'm training 6x a week, and legs sometimes 3x a week.

I do believe everyone responds differently to different supplements s well, considering folli did really nothing for me during a cut or a reverse diet, and CM is still banging strong. the biggest thing i took away from those logs on bb.com are that people don't train up to par for the CM. and the protocol imo was stupid to run with cm.

if you have a product that inhibits protein breakdown, and thus makes recovery much better, why would you have training 3x a week. albeit they were brutal workouts, but you mean to tell me that every average logger on bb.com is going to an RPE of 9.5 or 9 on every workout during that log? hell no.

i paid for my CM, and will continue to do so as i believe it works. i don;t think it'll put 10 lbs on you, but in the long run, it will definitely keep you in the gym recovering better from your previous session

 

[kissdadookie]

I know, it was kind of rhetorical and just pointing that this now turned into a dick measuring contest because of opinion.

How is something working or not a matter of opinion? LoL. Didn't I point this out earlier? If something working or not is a matter of opinion, that's the equivalent of saying:

If my opinion from the beginning is that this stuff works then this stuff will work and if my opinion from the beginning is that this stuff doesn’t work then this stuff won’t work.

Do any of you actually know what an opinion actually is?

 

[Swolbraham]

i also do think a flaw is peoplea re close minded to MT because of their previous claims, cough cell-tech, cough.

 

[kissdadookie]

i also do think a flaw is peoplea re close minded to MT because of their previous claims, cough cell-tech, cough.

Yup, apparently HMB-FA working or not is entirely dependent on if you like MT or not. LoL.

I really do wish that the real world works like that. If it did, then every time I look in a muscle mag, see a great ad with crazy promises and have my opinion set to “I like this ad,” then magically the stuff will work! Because after all, apparently everything is just an opinion

 

[goodvibes]

while i do believe everyone responds differently, i do believe CM works if your style of training fits to it. Situations where recovery can be an issue (high frequency training) it has trememdous benefits. I've been using it the past 13 weeks now, and to me it will be a staple since i'm training 6x a week, and legs sometimes 3x a week.

I do believe everyone responds differently to different supplements s well, considering folli did really nothing for me during a cut or a reverse diet, and CM is still banging strong. the biggest thing i took away from those logs on bb.com are that people don't train up to par for the CM. and the protocol imo was stupid to run with cm.

if you have a product that inhibits protein breakdown, and thus makes recovery much better, why would you have training 3x a week. albeit they were brutal workouts, but you mean to tell me that every average logger on bb.com is going to an RPE of 9.5 or 9 on every workout during that log? hell no.

i paid for my CM, and will continue to do so as i believe it works. i don;t think it'll put 10 lbs on you, but in the long run, it will definitely keep you in the gym recovering better from your previous session

Your statement added CM on my list to study and try. Like any product on the market, I'll try it and if it doesn't work I just dnt buy it anymore and move on.

 

[kissdadookie]

Your statement added CM on my list to study and try. Like any product on the market, I'll try it and if it doesn't work I just dnt buy it anymore and move on.

Same. Thus I've used a lot of stuff, lol.

 

[Swolbraham]

Your statement added CM on my list to study and try. Like any product on the market, I'll try it and if it doesn't work I just dnt buy it anymore and move on.

boom glad i could be of assistance

 

[goodvibes]

Same. Thus I've used a lot of stuff, lol.

Yes but this board really helped me narrow down that list. Saves me money and time. Reading logs and reviews gives you an idea which of the products have potential

 

[Swolbraham]

Yes but this board really helped me narrow down that list. Saves me money and time. Reading logs and reviews gives you an idea which of the products have potential

preach brother i feel you, so far my favorites from Personal use and the use of my clients i train (90% are sprinting track athletes):

Clear Muscle ( If you have a high frequency program)
King / PA (2 weeks on this, just hit a body weight PR on deadlift, 385 with ease at 137 lbs)
XGels
AmentoMax
Magnitropin (I haven't got to use it yet, but will be shortly)

Regarding Magnitropin, the testing has been great, and one of my clients has gained about 4-5 lbs in two weeks. most likely due to glycogen retention, but he's noticed increased appetite and insane pumps. I personally can't wait to run it as the feedback been's awesome. can't wait for the logs to go up.

 

[Cheranine]

im on my second tub of cm now
Im loosely following the program (mostly just doing the compounds then assistance stuff on a separate day due to lack of time - I train at home and family life is hectic)

My back is really feeling bigger now. I've had my fair share of injures of late so cant really comment on numbers. If anything I love this style of training program (coming from 531) so whether or not the supplement has been working remains to be seen. Ive read the real benefits dont show until the 10-12 week marks (in other words buy 3 bottles lololol) so will finish my 12 weeks as per recommendation, I think I'll continue another 12 week program after but without CM.

Also using ArA and betaine. Just thought Id throw that in there.

BTW does it matter if CM is taken fasted? Or better with food?

 

[kissdadookie]

im on my second tub of cm now
Im loosely following the program (mostly just doing the compounds then assistance stuff on a separate day due to lack of time - I train at home and family life is hectic)

My back is really feeling bigger now. I've had my fair share of injures of late so cant really comment on numbers. If anything I love this style of training program (coming from 531) so whether or not the supplement has been working remains to be seen. Ive read the real benefits dont show until the 10-12 week marks (in other words buy 3 bottles lololol) so will finish my 12 weeks as per recommendation, I think I'll continue another 12 week program after but without CM.

Also using ArA and betaine. Just thought Id throw that in there.

BTW does it matter if CM is taken fasted? Or better with food?

Don't try swallowing the CM pills. My experience with dry swallowing those things was that it kind of gave me the back of the throat burn sometimes. Apart from that, it doesn’t matter if you consume it with a meal or not. Key is to take one of the doses preworkout. I keep my last dose of the day close to around the time I go to bed. I think another good idea is to take a dose in between meals. It will have a moderate effect on spiking mTOR.

I’m running XFA right now along with my 4[SUP]th[/SUP] bottle of CM. Let’s see how that goes. I suspect that the DOMS are going to return even with the CM because the pathway for which ArA creates the inflammation response that could lead to DOMS is different from the one that CM inhibits. Doesn't mean the CM is not working anymore, it would just mean that the DOMS is due to something else working through another pathway.

 

[goodvibes]

3 of you (swole, kiss, and cheranine) are running CM with ARA?

 

[Swolbraham]

3 of you (swole, kiss, and cheranine) are running CM with ARA?

i've ran ara, but not concurrently with CM. tomorrow i will be though.

i actually just did a supp update in my log if you wanna check it out: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/254139-swol-boones-quest-9.html

 

[Cheranine]

3 of you (swole, kiss, and cheranine) are running CM with ARA?

yup. Just a bit greedy like that.

 

[Swolbraham]

yup. Just a bit greedy like that.

lol you just wanna get hyoooge bruh

in four weeks, i'll be stacking Magnitropin / CM / EP1C / XGels / King

 

[goodvibes]

yup. Just a bit greedy like that.

Aahh, if I do try this CM it might be nxt year and will run it solo to assess effectiveness. My year is already filled with stacks.

 

[Swolbraham]

Aahh, if I do try this CM it might be nxt year and will run it solo to assess effectiveness. My year is already filled with stacks.

the thing about CM is it's pretty unique. I noticed better recovery right off the bat about a week in. and it's effects seemed to really shine to me since i was in a 600 calorie deficit and cutting to 7-8% bodyfat. I was doing normal high frequency, 6x a week, 100 mins of cardio a week, AND was eating half my offseason carbs and still was recovering greatly. So i feel as though it's effects could be added to any stack and it would be useful.

I'm curious how it'll treat the DOMS with ArA.

 

[goodvibes]

the thing about CM is it's pretty unique. I noticed better recovery right off the bat about a week in. and it's effects seemed to really shine to me since i was in a 600 calorie deficit and cutting to 7-8% bodyfat. I was doing normal high frequency, 6x a week, 100 mins of cardio a week, AND was eating half my offseason carbs and still was recovering greatly. So i feel as though it's effects could be added to any stack and it would be useful.

I'm curious how it'll treat the DOMS with ArA.

This should help me on my next folli run then. The doms I felt on folli is much more compared on ArA

 

[Swolbraham]

interesting. i wished folli worked for me in that regard, i did see an increase in endurance, but since i've added HBCD / PeptoPro / EAA's intra workout, i can't even say folli did that since I started at the same time.

CM + Intra Carbs = Recovery on POINT!

 

[goodvibes]

interesting. i wished folli worked for me in that regard, i did see an increase in endurance, but since i've added HBCD / PeptoPro / EAA's intra workout, i can't even say folli did that since I started at the same time.

CM + Intra Carbs = Recovery on POINT!

Sounds good, I'll give it a try for sure

 

[kissdadookie]

3 of you (swole, kiss, and cheranine) are running CM with ARA?

Yup. First 3 bottles was not with ArA though.

 

[kbayne]

lol you just wanna get hyoooge bruh

in four weeks, i'll be stacking Magnitropin / CM / EP1C / XGels / King

Bro, bridge that ish lol.

 

[Swolbraham]

Bro, bridge that ish lol.

lol nah, got enough on hand to run it all for 12-16 weeks anyway. it'll be bridged in different periods though. the main staples are king and CM

 

[GreenMachineX]

I am also.

 

[fightnews]

^ Coming from the person that claims PA to be like PH and then gaining 10 lbs or whatever from (-)epi in less than 5 days or something.

Why don't you post some photos of yourself eh? At least I'm not hiding behind a picture of a random hot chick. I'm also not running around claiming how detrimental cortisol is.

You talk a big talk but at the end of the day, you've done nothing but post bullchit and hide behind anonymity.



Secretly working? It clearly did something substantial, I've backed that up with my log and progress photos. You keep saying that all I got is lots of fat, LOL. Put up your photos brah. Let's see your before and afters with the (-)epi.

Ok keep in mind I took 5 years off from lifting completely and I've only been back for 8 months. This first pic is a few months ago.

Now this pic is recently, I'm the same weight because I actually gained muscle and lost fat

 

[fightnews]

^ Coming from the person that claims PA to be like PH and then gaining 10 lbs or whatever from (-)epi in less than 5 days or something.

Why don't you post some photos of yourself eh? At least I'm not hiding behind a picture of a random hot chick. I'm also not running around claiming how detrimental cortisol is.

You talk a big talk but at the end of the day, you've done nothing but post bullchit and hide behind anonymity.



Secretly working? It clearly did something substantial, I've backed that up with my log and progress photos. You keep saying that all I got is lots of fat, LOL. Put up your photos brah. Let's see your before and afters with the (-)epi.

You don't understand that the progress you made could easily have been done without clear muscle. Bro the study claims 16 pounds of muscle while losing 10 pounds of fat. you didn't lose ant fat you gained it. you just went up in scale weight. you're still a newb but you pretend to know everything and assume everyone else is a retard. If I have to hear you go on and on about anti catabolic i'm stick an ice pick in my eyes. I never said cortisol was a monster i said it controls catabolism not hmb. Never said that about epi. You just keep making stuff up. You have been using pa and intra workout carbs the whole time. thats where your gains came from in my opinion. You got no where close to what they claim taking HMBFA, It's just another scam

 

[fightnews]

I understand you have before/after pics, but lets be real. Im not accusing you of lying, BUT I can log something and say thats all i am using but take that product along with something else and do before/after pics as well. There is honestly no way of knowing except trusting your word. But I will never touch a MT product ever.

He was taking phosphatidic acid which is getting great reviews everywhere and intra workout hbcd and casein hydro at least, he thinks because he was on it for 40 days it doesn't count.

If clear muscle is so great how come the reviews are so blah? Except for a few shills most people report nothing, nothing close to the claims thats for sure.

 

[fightnews]

So the mountains of data on HMB somehow to you is irrelevant? So basically, all this chatter about how HMB doesn't work coming from people looking at data for it's ANABOLIC potential matters when in reality the stuff CLEARY is a weak anabolic but mainly a anti-catabolic?

You do realize that the mechanism of action for HMB is one of the more well understood things out for a dietary supplement ingredient right? You also do realize that we have TWO studies done YEARS APART which have similar results correct? You do realize that if you look at feedback from people that claim the stuff doesn’t do anything have largely been from 1) people whom basically just never used the stuff and parroting what they think is right from what they see in forums/online and 2) people using the stuff expecting it to be a anabolic compound. You use the wrong tool for the job, you’re going to be disappointed. Plain and simple. If you know what the tool is to be used for and apply it properly, you’re going to benefit.

Lastly, LOGS FROM PEOPLE WHOM ARE INCREDIBLY SUSCEPTIBLE TO PLACEBO to you matters more than mountains of data like HMB has behind it? I’m not specifically talking about PES products, but products with lots of logs behind them. You’re basically questioning if HMB works or not, how many studies do you actually need before you accept that it does do what the data suggests it does?

Also, all reviews on SUPPLEMENTS are subjective? LOL. GET THE HECK OUT OF HERE. That is HILARIOUS. Either something works or it doesn't work. Isn't that the whole discussion in the first place over HMB-FA/CM? SUBJECTIVITY makes it nothing more than an opinion which in turn, it's like saying "if you believe it works then it works, if you believe it doesn't then it won't work." What kind of logic is that? Makes no sense. The problem with most reviews is that they are indeed subjective, thus making the value of the review utterly useless.

Lastly, your argument is kind of silly. We're discussing if the stuff worked/has value or not and your basically saying "It's all opinion and I get to choose whom to spend my money on." These are two different things, they are not one and the same. Something working or not is completely independent to ones personal opinion/like/dislike of a company.

You do realize there was tons of positive studies on hmbca to and it does jack chit. Not to mention places are selling that cm vrap for 80 bucks lol, might as well just flush your money down the toilet.

You are like a parakeet with this anabolic anti catabolic crap. get over it we know what it means, i could find 1000 posts where you bring this up, you are a broken record. u must have some kind of disorder?

 

[fightnews]

I used 2 bottles of CM, busted my tail in the gym, and got nothing out of it... Sick volume that most people would probably say is not good.

I used the same routine running PA and gained 1 clean pound a week - no fat (based on my own body measurements). I used the same routine with epi and had very similar results.

PA is great, epi is good... CM, to me ( and is only my opinion), is garbage.

You aren't the only one bro. I'm sure kissdookie is going to tell you you're doing something wrong

 

[fightnews]

Define busted your tail.

I did use PA whilst using CM, the two worked well together (had been on PA for 40+ or so days prior to starting CM). I have a log on another board. Broke down every little bit of the 12 or so weeks.

Wizard^^^ No one knows how to train but him yet he barley even looks like he lifts

 

[kissdadookie]

You do realize there was tons of positive studies on hmbca to and it does jack chit. Not to mention places are selling that cm vrap for 80 bucks lol, might as well just flush your money down the toilet.

You are like a parakeet with this anabolic anti catabolic crap. get over it we know what it means, i could find 1000 posts where you bring this up, you are a broken record. u must have some kind of disorder?

Again, are you basically suffering from selective reading or something? The negative feedback have been overwhelmingly from people that have been expecting it to be a strong anabolic.

How is about you just put your money where your mouth is? Where is your before and after for (-)epi. I recall you claimed like a 10 lbs gain in like a week or something. Also, how are you backing up your claims that PA is like PH?

You're claiming that gains on HMB is bullchit and then lol at it having steroid like gains in the city, yet have no problem claiming insane claims for PA and (-)epi. Back up your claims bro.

 

[fightnews]

every review is subjective because everybody does not respond the same to every supplement. This thread is the clear example.

How so? 1 guy saying its great vs a whole thread of people saying it did nothing? Their are at least 5 random people checking in saying it did nothing. those are the results I look for.

 

[fightnews]

Again, are you basically suffering from selective reading or something? The negative feedback have been overwhelmingly from people that have been expecting it to be a strong anabolic.

How is about you just put your money where your mouth is? Where is your before and after for (-)epi. I recall you claimed like a 10 lbs gain in like a week or something. Also, how are you backing up your claims that PA is like PH?

You're claiming that gains on HMB is bullchit and then lol at it having steroid like gains in the city, yet have no problem claiming insane claims for PA and (-)epi. Back up your claims bro.

I already posted pics retard, try checking the thread before posting,

STFU already about it being anti catabolic. people understand the difference and you are assuming they don't

 

[kissdadookie]

How so? 1 guy saying its great vs a whole thread of people saying it did nothing? Their are at least 5 random people checking in saying it did nothing. those are the results I look for.

^ Placebro is strong with this one.

Check the logs bro! They are all positive, chit must be good!!!

Again, you claim PA is line running PH. You also made crazy better than roid gains on (-)epi. Where's your before and after? You're all talk and no substantiation.

 

[kissdadookie]

I already posted pics retard, try checking the thread before posting,

STFU already about it being anti catabolic. people understand the difference and you are assuming they don't

Link.

 

[fightnews]

It doesn't appear that you understand what the word subjective actually means.

Here we go, nobody knows anything but him.

 

[fightnews]

Link.

Its on this page