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kissdadookie

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But for absorption with food or Empty stomach doesn't matter it seems?
Doesn't appear to matter. I tend to dry swallow most capsules/tablets/etc. but for one reason or another, CM kind of gives me a slight throat discomfort if I dry swallow it, so at minimum I suggest taking it with water or something of the sort.
 
GreenMachineX

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Doesn't appear to matter. I tend to dry swallow most capsules/tablets/etc. but for one reason or another, CM kind of gives me a slight throat discomfort if I dry swallow it, so at minimum I suggest taking it with water or something of the sort.
Thanks, but...
Why do you dry swallow anything???? :blink:
 
GreenMachineX

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really can't believe how much better i'm recovering during workouts, and the only addition is cm. not like its more cals and carbs as every week i'm decreasing by 100kcala and 25g cho. my strength has been increasing this cut, first because of xgels and now cm has me with much better recovery. i'm able to lift for 80-90 mins again, and increase cardio, and performance isn't effected at all. before cm i was around 60-70 mins because i was dying out and feeling shot due to reduce cals and CHO
Sounds awesome.
 
fightnews

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No. It is however absolutely crucial to be be objectively training to the point where recovery would be a rate limiting factor without CM supplementation, thus with CM supplementation it can then mitigate the recovery issue when training at that level. This level is obviously different for everyone but the key here is to be objective rather than going by just perception of the level of work being done.

It's like driving a car on a congested freeway, CM in that scenario decongests the freeway but for you to take advantage of it, you would obviously need to drive faster to get to where you want to go more quickly.
Well if it worked like they say I wouldn't need a deload week and I do, I don't want to totally dismiss the sup but it's not living up to the hype for me.
 

kissdadookie

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Well if it worked like they say I wouldn't need a deload week and I do, I don't want to totally dismiss the sup but it's not living up to the hype for me.
It can only go so far, I mean, you can certainly still overdo it on the training regardless of supplementing with the stuff or not. Lulz. You're only flesh and bone after all.
 
braskibra

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Well not necessarily, remember overtraining can be secondary to cns fatigue, just saying
 
GreenMachineX

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Went ahead and ordered 2 bottles of this. Let's see what happens.
 
fightnews

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Could be but there is stil no way this stuff is as effective as claimed, I just don't see it. I can't be the ony one?
 
GreenMachineX

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Could be but there is stil no way this stuff is as effective as claimed, I just don't see it. I can't be the ony one?
And I feel the same way about PA; there's always non responders.
 
MultiVitamin

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Are your calories above or below maintenance?
Above. Starting weight was 180.4or6, I calculated it out and I'm suppose to be upping .5lb a week so I should gain 6lbs regularly over 12wk if I'd continue to grow at that weight

Right now I'm averaging 1.08lb increase weekly
 
GreenMachineX

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Above. Starting weight was 180.4or6, I calculated it out and I'm suppose to be upping .5lb a week so I should gain 6lbs regularly over 12wk if I'd continue to grow at that weight

Right now I'm averaging 1.08lb increase weekly
Awesome. I took my first dose a few hours ago.
 
Wilsy7

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[Q UOTE=MultiVitamin;4531604]Above. Starting weight was 180.4or6, I calculated it out and I'm suppose to be upping .5lb a week so I should gain 6lbs regularly over 12wk if I'd continue to grow at that weight

Right now I'm averaging 1.08lb increase weekly[/QUOTE]

Your following the test workout aren't you? How are you enjoying it?
 
fightnews

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And I feel the same way about PA; there's always non responders.
Ya right, I don't believe you, even at 1 bottle you would have noticed something but you really ned longer then that, You would be the first to say you got nothing from it. "Non responders" are these sup companies famous last words. Why you so quick to defend clear muscle anyway when you just started with it?
 

kissdadookie

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Ya right, I don't believe you, even at 1 bottle you would have noticed something but you really ned longer then that, You would be the first to say you got nothing from it. "Non responders" are these sup companies famous last words. Why you so quick to defend clear muscle anyway when you just started with it?
Lulz, it could be 110% true that GreenMachineX may be a non-responder or an incredibly mild responder. We also don't know what he was taking at the time, health status, training status, etc. All of these are variables which we don't know about so to be perfectly fair and honest, he could very well have not perceived anything from PA or maybe he may have credited other things he may have been possibly using at the time for any perceived effects/results for all we know.
 
GreenMachineX

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Ya right, I don't believe you, even at 1 bottle you would have noticed something but you really ned longer then that, You would be the first to say you got nothing from it. "Non responders" are these sup companies famous last words. Why you so quick to defend clear muscle anyway when you just started with it?
Everything you say comes across as hostile. You may have a post here or there that's positive, but you dominate the negativity around here.
 
GreenMachineX

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Lulz, it could be 110% true that GreenMachineX may be a non-responder or an incredibly mild responder. We also don't know what he was taking at the time, health status, training status, etc. All of these are variables which we don't know about so to be perfectly fair and honest, he could very well have not perceived anything from PA or maybe he may have credited other things he may have been possibly using at the time for any perceived effects/results for all we know.
Thank you.
 

ma70

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Judging by the looks of this stuff, it looks like it'd be nice on a cut.
 

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One bottle of this lasts 14 days?. It looks very intriguing though and some places got it as low as $53
 
fightnews

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Lulz, it could be 110% true that GreenMachineX may be a non-responder or an incredibly mild responder. We also don't know what he was taking at the time, health status, training status, etc. All of these are variables which we don't know about so to be perfectly fair and honest, he could very well have not perceived anything from PA or maybe he may have credited other things he may have been possibly using at the time for any perceived effects/results for all we know.
BS hes just saying it doesnt work because he knows i like it, he prob never even used it
 
Cheranine

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Got mine today.

Quick question on the HMC FA - where has it been all this time? That is to say, has this been trialled or used in other products before? CM seems to be the first that I can find. Just seems odd to me that HMB CA has been used for years whereas the focus is now on FA all of a sudden.
 
fightnews

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So whats the word fellas? Is anybody going to buying this stuff again? I gave up on it after 2 bottles and still feel it did nothing. Not to mention its 80 a bottle in some places? Am I missing something or is clear muscle a big joke? Don't forget the claims of 16 pounds of muscle and 10 pounds of fat loss in 12 weeks or whatever stupid thing they claimed? Better then testosterone according to study lol
 
R1balla

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So whats the word fellas? Is anybody going to buying this stuff again? I gave up on it after 2 bottles and still feel it did nothing. Not to mention its 80 a bottle in some places? Am I missing something or is clear muscle a big joke? Don't forget the claims of 16 pounds of muscle and 10 pounds of fat loss in 12 weeks or whatever stupid thing they claimed? Better then testosterone according to study lol
I remember everyone saying grid was going to be actually a decent product. Once again, they have yet to prove to me it is.
 

kissdadookie

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So whats the word fellas? Is anybody going to buying this stuff again? I gave up on it after 2 bottles and still feel it did nothing. Not to mention its 80 a bottle in some places? Am I missing something or is clear muscle a big joke? Don't forget the claims of 16 pounds of muscle and 10 pounds of fat loss in 12 weeks or whatever stupid thing they claimed? Better then testosterone according to study lol
I bought 2 more bottles. I've also posted in that thread on another board you posted it, which I will assume you've seen with before and after photos. You tell me if I made gains off it or not with just a modest bulk diet and no alteration to supplementation apart from adding CM in. Also used the same training scheme I've been using for 6+ or so months now.

It's not the product's fault that you most likely didn't get the best out of it, it comes down to your training ultimately. You say that you bust arse but that's really subjective, the question is do you actually quantifiably and objectively bust arse. The training dose dictates if you are reaping benefits from the stuff or not.
 
fightnews

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Makes me seriously question the integrity of the "study" they did claiming 16 pounds of muscle and 10 pounds of fat loss in 12 weeks or whatever it was? Was the study a total fraud where they fudged the numbers or did some wizardry to get those numbers? This is what I was worried about with more supplement coming out with positive human studies like beta alanine, phosphatidic acid and ARA. I believe in those products but once companies realize people only want to buy stuff backed by published human studies they find a way to get their crap backed by human studies. Should of known muscle tech would be involved in that going by their history. Was that study the did on hmb-fa peer reviewed?
 
fightnews

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I bought 2 more bottles. I've also posted in that thread on another board you posted it, which I will assume you've seen with before and after photos. You tell me if I made gains off it or not with just a modest bulk diet and no alteration to supplementation apart from adding CM in. Also used the same training scheme I've been using for 6+ or so months now.

It's not the product's fault that you most likely didn't get the best out of it, it comes down to your training ultimately. You say that you bust arse but that's really subjective, the question is do you actually quantifiably and objectively bust arse. The training dose dictates if you are reaping benefits from the stuff or not.
You have also been taking phosphatidic acid. You have posted that everywhere? Who knows what else? How do you know the results aren't from that? No I haven't seen your post is it on T nation? I'll check it out.

Just saw pics, You look good bro but you certainly didn't gain anywhere near 16 lbs and lose 10lbs of fat. Honestly your muscles look full and thats what MicroPa does. I willing to bet all those results were form the micro pa.
 

kissdadookie

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Makes me seriously question the integrity of the "study" they did claiming 16 pounds of muscle and 10 pounds of fat loss in 12 weeks or whatever it was? Was the study a total fraud where they fudged the numbers or did some wizardry to get those numbers? This is what I was worried about with more supplement coming out with positive human studies like beta alanine, phosphatidic acid and ARA. I believe in those products but once companies realize people only want to buy stuff backed by published human studies they find a way to get their crap backed by human studies. Should of known muscle tech would be involved in that going by their history. Was that study the did on hmb-fa peer reviewed?
Again, you are doing a whole lot of poo pooing the stuff even thought my logging and my post in the other board you were also poo pooing the stuff on, showed very good results.

Do I really need to point out how you seemingly claimed super anabolic effects from (-)epi in a matter of days? I seriously question if your feedback on things even matter after reading those (-)epi claims you made.

You have also been taking phosphatidic acid. You have posted that everywhere? Who knows what else? How do you know the results aren't from that? No I haven't seen your post is it on T nation? I'll check it out.
I've been EXTREMELY CLEAR on the supplements I was on prior to adding CM in. Everything I was using I had been using for at least 40+ days PRIOR to CM. So don't even use that excuse here. If anything, it would have been extremely stupid to start taking things out when I started the CM because taking things out would have created huge variables. To gauge it best, making CM the only change was the best approach.
 
R1balla

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Makes me seriously question the integrity of the "study" they did claiming 16 pounds of muscle and 10 pounds of fat loss in 12 weeks or whatever it was? Was the study a total fraud where they fudged the numbers or did some wizardry to get those numbers? This is what I was worried about with more supplement coming out with positive human studies like beta alanine, phosphatidic acid and ARA. I believe in those products but once companies realize people only want to buy stuff backed by published human studies they find a way to get their crap backed by human studies. Should of known muscle tech would be involved in that going by their history. Was that study the did on hmb-fa peer reviewed?
MT has always made huge claims. Another reason why I wont buy their products.
 
fightnews

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Again, you are doing a whole lot of poo pooing the stuff even thought my logging and my post in the other board you were also poo pooing the stuff on, showed very good results.

Do I really need to point out how you seemingly claimed super anabolic effects from (-)epi in a matter of days? I seriously question if your feedback on things even matter after reading those (-)epi claims you made.



I've been EXTREMELY CLEAR on the supplements I was on prior to adding CM in. Everything I was using I had been using for at least 40+ days PRIOR to CM. So don't even use that excuse here. If anything, it would have been extremely stupid to start taking things out when I started the CM because taking things out would have created huge variables. To gauge it best, making CM the only change was the best approach.
Bro 40 days isn't even six weeks, thats when the suff really starts working, As far as my results with epi what i posted was true, i did not report super anabolic effects you made that up. I reported immediate sense of well being and doing more reps on certain key exercises. Honestly those results have continued. My strength has been going up slightly every workout. Ya I take a lot of stuff but i've been lifting and taking sups for 25 years guy. since I was 12. I know whats going on in my body 100%
 

kissdadookie

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Bro 40 days isn't even six weeks, thats when the suff really starts working, As far as my results with epi what i posted was true, i did not report super anabolic effects you made that up. I reported immediate sense of well being and doing more reps on certain key exercises. Honestly those results have continued. My strength has been going up slightly every workout. Ya I take a lot of stuff but i've been lifting and taking sups for 25 years guy. since I was 12. I know whats going on in my body 100%
LOL. You're essentially making stuff up at this point. PA doesn't need as long as you think it needs to start having effects. You also clearly do not have a grasp on your body and knowing what works and what doesn't. Nothing you've posted now or ever really, would indicate that you have a clue as to what the heck is doing what or if something is doing anything for you.

Current:


Before:


Current:


Before:




That's around 12 weeks right there. 12-14 lbs scale weight increase. Yeah I got a little fatter but let's be serious here, relative the the weight gain, the fat gain is pretty negligible. I also used my own training there so that's coming very close to the weight gain at least in the study. Obviously not as crazy as we saw in the study but you're out of your mind if you're going to claim that these are not pretty significant and good results. Also went from a newly acquired 80 lbs db flat bench working max at the start of the 12 weeks to a current working max of 100 lbs on that lift (just hit it again for the second week in a row today).
 

kisaj

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I have no skin in this game, but just wanted to point out that the results fightnews was seeing with (-)-epi were pretty standard with what everyone else is finding. The claims weren't out of line.
 
R1balla

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Bro 40 days isn't even six weeks, thats when the suff really starts working, As far as my results with epi what i posted was true, i did not report super anabolic effects you made that up. I reported immediate sense of well being and doing more reps on certain key exercises. Honestly those results have continued. My strength has been going up slightly every workout. Ya I take a lot of stuff but i've been lifting and taking sups for 25 years guy. since I was 12. I know whats going on in my body 100%

i can vouch for epi. Im on Epi with Dermacrine right now. Gained 4 pounds in 1 week. Im on day 11 now. Strength gains slowly coming.
 

kissdadookie

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Also, I have my log up and completed on another board for CM/HMB-FA. There's 7ish/8ish week progress photos in that log which I am too lazy to post up here ATM.
 
fightnews

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LOL. You're essentially making stuff up at this point. PA doesn't need as long as you think it needs to start having effects. You also clearly do not have a grasp on your body and knowing what works and what doesn't. Nothing you've posted now or ever really, would indicate that you have a clue as to what the heck is doing what or if something is doing anything for you.
Whatever bro Ive had it with arguing, put me on ignore and don't read my posts. You have to be the most annoying know it all i've ever came across on the whole internet. Really, The results you got would of been the exact same without clear muscle and honestly they aren't that impressive. You just look fatter. If you think a guy like myself who's been lifting and doing supps for 25 years doesn't know anything then you're a fool. You're just getting ripped off on a recycled crap supplement from a company thats known for doing just that.
 
fightnews

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i can vouch for epi. Im on Epi with Dermacrine right now. Gained 4 pounds in 1 week. Im on day 11 now. Strength gains slowly coming.
Ya I know tons of people reporting the same thing. Nobody at all posting about clear muscle like that. But of course we are all to stupid to understand how clear muscle is secretly working lol.
 

kissdadookie

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Whatever bro Ive had it with arguing, put me on ignore and don't read my posts. You have to be the most annoying know it all i've ever came across on the whole internet. Really, The results you got would of been the exact same without clear muscle and honestly they aren't that impressive. You just look fatter. If you think a guy like myself who's been lifting and doing supps for 25 years doesn't know anything then you're a fool. You're just getting ripped off on a recycled crap supplement from a company thats known for doing just that.
^ Coming from the person that claims PA to be like PH and then gaining 10 lbs or whatever from (-)epi in less than 5 days or something.

Why don't you post some photos of yourself eh? At least I'm not hiding behind a picture of a random hot chick. I'm also not running around claiming how detrimental cortisol is.

You talk a big talk but at the end of the day, you've done nothing but post bullchit and hide behind anonymity.

Ya I know tons of people reporting the same thing. Nobody at all posting about clear muscle like that. But of course we are all to stupid to understand how clear muscle is secretly working lol.
Secretly working? It clearly did something substantial, I've backed that up with my log and progress photos. You keep saying that all I got is lots of fat, LOL. Put up your photos brah. Let's see your before and afters with the (-)epi.
 
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^ Coming from the person that claims PA to be like PH and then gaining 10 lbs or whatever from (-)epi in less than 5 days or something.

Why don't you post some photos of yourself eh? At least I'm not hiding behind a picture of a random hot chick. I'm also not running around claiming how detrimental cortisol is.

You talk a big talk but at the end of the day, you've done nothing but post bullchit and hide behind anonymity.



Secretly working? It clearly did something substantial, I've backed that up with my log and progress photos. You keep saying that all I got is lots of fat, LOL. Put up your photos brah. Let's see your before and afters with the (-)epi.
I understand you have before/after pics, but lets be real. Im not accusing you of lying, BUT I can log something and say thats all i am using but take that product along with something else and do before/after pics as well. There is honestly no way of knowing except trusting your word. But I will never touch a MT product ever.
 

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