CKD and cardio

[ThomasRivera]

Are your almonds raw? Or already roasted?

 

[ShadowFury]

Just straight up raw almonds. I don't remember seeing roasted, so I'll look for them next time I go to the store.

 

[ThomasRivera]

You can roast almonds, 300 degrees for about 15-20 minutes in the oven. Or 350 for 8-10. Works either way I think.

http://www.ehow.com/how_2172734_roast-almonds.html
http://www.rwood.com/Recipes/Homemade_Almond_Butter.htm

 

[ShadowFury]

Alright, thanks.

Does it matter if I eat peanuts or almonds? They both have I think 3-4 carbs(That aren't fiber) the only dif is that the peanuts are salted.
When I was having peanuts before, I was having 2-4 servings because I would have 2 at school, then I would munch on them at home, and they are addicting. If I had them, it would be one serving and I wouldn't use them as munchies.

 

[ThomasRivera]

They probably just have different fat and protein content, you can check up on the labels if they come with them and if they don't nutritiondata.com is a good place to check.

 

[ShadowFury]

Ya, I have both of them here, and they really aren't much different. I will prolly just do each one every other day now, a little variation goes a long way ^_^

This is random, but you said my water intake would screw with the keto stix, but it doesn't mess with my actual keto right?

 

[ThomasRivera]

No, not with your actual keto. It's good to stay hydrated through all stages of keto, especially carb loads.

Actually might improve the effectiveness of keto.

"RESULTS: Only 500 ml water increased energy expenditure by 24% over the course of 60 min after ingestion, whereas isoosmotic saline and 50 ml water had no effect."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17519319

Thats about a seventh of a gallon of water.

 

[ShadowFury]

Dang, didn't know that

I need to use google more instead of asking so many ?s here

You said you've been doing this for a year River? How the crap do you get through it for the Holidays? I think I am going to take Christmas day and Thanksgiving day as cheat days. I know if I get out of the groove of this, it will be just as hard to restart it as it was to start it. Should I skip one refeed before both of those holidays, just do be further into keto when I do have my massive cheat day?

 

[ThomasRivera]

Well, the CKD i do is 5 days low carb, 2 days carb load.

Italian family, so for thanksgiving, turkey, pasta, wine, the usual. Other side of the family, turkey, crabberry, you know the usual stuff, yams with marshmallows on top. Same deal for christmas.

What do you mean by cheat day though?

If you do your workouts through the week, do a good depletion workout, you can have a good 48 hour carb up and supercompensate glycogen levels. Usually glycogen levels don't go past a certain point, doing a depletion workout you prime your muscles for uptake of glycogen and can easilly get away with doing a 48 hour carb load.

 

[ShadowFury]

Cheat day as in not aiming for mainly carbs, or even good carbs, but just eating what tastes good, lol.

Depletion workouts are longer right? 60 sec rest between sets, and then 90 between dif workouts(from curls to situps, or bench to lat pulls, etc...) right?
I also heard that on keto you were supposed to do them short but hard :S

 

[ThomasRivera]

Depletion workouts are longer, much more intense, can have from 12-15 reps every set, circuit training style. Like for legs I would move in this way.

Hamstring curls, standing calf raises, leg extensions, standing hamstring curls, seated calf raises, leg press. Then something for upper body, then I would switch to circuits that involved full body stuff.

 

[ShadowFury]

Ah ok, do you do a normal workout after your carb up, or do a harder one because of the boost from being carbed up?

 

[ThomasRivera]

Well, I periodize my workouts. I like to go for strength oriented workouts the first day after I finish my carb load. Then a size oriented workout later in the week.

 

[ShadowFury]

Alright, I'll prolly end up stealing that then ^_^ Thanks for all the info, I think I'm actually out of questions now :O

 

[walugi]

ask him his star sign then

 

[ShadowFury]

Lol
That stupid jello is just sitting there mocking me <_<

You deciding on keto when you are able to or is it still a toss up?

 

[walugi]

Something like that. I keep the higher calorie days for heavier workout days and it seems to help my fat loss. What type of CKD program are you looking to do?

You mean exercise plan?

I was going to try and follow the one on the spreadsheet, but adding it my own exercises for forearms and back. Or i was just thinking about doing my usual workouts :\

So depletion workouts are just more reps right?

I really don't enjoy circuit work, I find that i can't lift as heavily and harder to focus. I generally stick with normal 3x8 or 5x5 routines for all my exercises.

I split

Chest/Shoulders
Bis/Tris
Legs/Back

I'm thinking of splitting up legs and back though, I think it might be bad for me to do two large muscle groups in one day.

So i'll probably start on

Chest/Back
Shoulders/Legs
Bis/Tris

 

[ThomasRivera]

I meant in terms of how long you would low carb for and what approach to carb loading you would take.

 

[ShadowFury]

Well, I'm obviously not great at everything yet, but I think you're right on the two large muscle groups in one day. I did that for a lil while and I felt sick, dunno if it was from that, but ya ^_^

My workouts are usually just:
Bis/Tris/Shoulders
Back/Chest/Abs
Then I do HIIT on the days inbetween, I also do cardio after my workout, which you may want to add in 30-45 mins if you're going to be cutting first.

EDIT:
Mon:HIIT
Tues:Bis/Tris/Shoulders/Cardio
Wed:Back/Chest/Abs/Cardio
Thurs:HIIT(So the other groups can rest before Fridays workout)
Fri: Everything
Sat: Rest or HIIT
Sun:Rest or HIIT or cardio

 

[walugi]

I meant in terms of how long you would low carb for and what approach to carb loading you would take.

Haven't figured this out yet. From what i've read it seems like its different for everyone?

I'm probably around 15-20% bf now so i don't think my body will be that starved

Maybe just 24hours recarb will be enough

 

[ShadowFury]

I think if you are above 15% then some people refeed every two weeks, for 2 days I believe, but you still need to make sure you eat the same amount of carbs that you would if you only took 1 day. Someone correct me if I'm wrong or somethin please
EDIT:
Also, some people, when they first start the CKD, they will wait 2 weeks for their first refeed, instead of just doing 1 week. It helps you get into keto faster, and your body adapts faster.

 

[ThomasRivera]

It depends. The Ketogenic Diet book by Lyle McDonald suggest a macro breakdown for fat, protein and carb intake. The first 24 hours are 4.5 grams of carbs per a pound of lean body mass, and the second day is half that amount.

The anabolic diet suggests more of a judgment based on how you look, which is easier to do when you have lower body fat.

____

Some people find it harder to stay out of ketosis for almost two weeks at a time. The carb load does have some beneficial aspects to it, raises in test, gh and insulin simultaneously. But its good to spend more time in ketosis and just incorporate a mid week carb spike, or increased carbs after working out (taking a page out of the TKD style) to combat fatigue.

 

[ShadowFury]

Arg, now I'm running out of my shake, lol.

Any suggestions on what I should grab? I like this 100% Pure Whey and protein, but is there anything better I should try? It also needs to have low-no sugar obviously from the CKD.

 

[ThomasRivera]

There's ON 100 percent gold standard protein, Isopure protein which has no carbs or just one carb.

 

[Apowerz6]

I def have to check this ckd stuff out, and see if HIIT would be for me, research research!!!

 

[ShadowFury]

I have ON right now, I'll check out the isopure then.

EDIT: Yup, I did research for a good week before I started to get it all down, lol.
But once you get used to everything, it is seeming easier than a norm diet. The energy that I wasn't getting on a norm one is also sweet

I need to go get my jump rope so I don't have run in the ~40 degree weather tomorrow morning <_<

 

[Apowerz6]

Thanks brother!!!

 

[ShadowFury]

But I didn't do anything ^_^ Also while you're doing your research, read this whole topic, it should help out a bit

Isopure is lookin awesome, double the protein of ON, and only 1 carb (2 fiber)
I heard All The Whey cinnabun is good, but I can't find a nutrition label :/

 

[ThomasRivera]

I really haven't been using my protein powders. I guess its because im used to savory, salty, spicy now and the strawberry shakes are just too sweet for my taste during keto. Too artificial tasting. They should come out with a bbq flavor.

 

[ShadowFury]

Dang, I love the taste. It's the only time I have something that tastes sweet, but I stay away from the straw/van/and choc flavors, they always do seem fake to me. I stick with Cookies n cream or something weird, but not fruit punch or any fruit ones.

BBQ protein would taste so weird, lol.

 

[ThomasRivera]

I have the cookies and cream, doesn't taste like it to me.

 

[ShadowFury]

I honestly don't think it does either, it just tastes good and that's all I know, lol. I don't see how it is cookies 'n cream, but whatever. If anything I taste the creamy part every once in awhile, also, have you tried adding the extra virgin olive oil in? Definately was funky the first time I did it, now it kinda tastes good with the different taste.

Drank less water yesterday, and checked the keto strips, it says I'm between 80/160 again. So I dunno if I should keep drinking less and see if the jello doesn't affect me or what.

I won't be able to do my final workout Friday either, but we have a Midnight Madness thing at school, the first "practice" for bball, so I am just counting that because I'll be running around the whole night, sprinting and normal pace. Is it still fine to do my refeed on Sat? Or should I do a full body today after school? Either way, I don't want to refeed Friday, because I'll be working Sat night through the end of my refeed, and I can usually get carbs easy at work, and I get hungrier than if I were at home or out doing something.

 

[ShadowFury]

Arg, reading around, some people say dairy products while on CKD are bad, but I thought cheese was perfect, balanced between fat/protein, and has a nice chunk of calcium(which is nowhere else but in my multi)
So is cheese ok or not? I have it in 2-3 of my meals

EDIT: It'd be sweet if someone can answer my working out question, if I'm going to, I need to start soon <_<

 

[ThomasRivera]

Im really not too sure with the time frame and i'm honestly not sure how much sprinting will help in maximum glycogen composition. It should help, but if you really aren't sure then maybe just stay in keto for a few more days and put it off to a day that you can workout. Cheese should be fine, ive never gotten knocked out of keto from cheese.

 

[ShadowFury]

Ya, keeping cheese for sure, can't find a downside.

I did a normal bis/tris/shoulders, today I am going to be able to do my depletion, but I won't have cardio after it because of the bball tonight. If my workout is done arund 5, I should eat at 7, 9, 11, and 1 right? And all of them should be my simple sugars right?(Gatorade,white bread, white rice, etc..) And then tomorrow should be all starches/complex?

Just wanna make sure, because I have been screwing up with my refeeds <_<

 

[ThomasRivera]

How long are you doing your carb up for? I do a 2 day carb up, concentrating quick digesting carbs the first half and slow digesting carbs the second half. If your doing it one day you would start off with the quicker stuff and taper off to slower digesting stuff. See how you feel and how you look.

 

[ShadowFury]

I am going to be doing it up until Saturday night. So, for 30 something hours.
I am going to drink a boatload of gatorade, and have white bread with lean meat for tonight's meals, and tomorrow I will have cereal for breakfast, and just have potatos and wheat bread, etc...

 

[ThomasRivera]

Sounds good. Monitor your body, see at what numbers you start to look fuller, feel fuller. If your not lean enough to see definition in your chest, abs, etc, check your forearms.

 

[ShadowFury]

Alright, thanks. Can't wait for some frikkin carbs, lol.

 

[wookie]

Hey guys, been lurking for awhile and learning tons from this site. Thanks for all the knowledge. I'm a bit confused on CKD and HIIT as well. I've been on CKD for about 4-5 weeks and doing well, however, I've stuck to my split routine doing legs/abs on Sun, shoulders & tris on Mon, Tue off/cardio, Wed back and bi's, & chest on Thursday. Currently I'm doing low reps//high weight. I feel that I can work each muscle harder this way without spending more than an hour on a workout. After your posts and reading the articles on it, I need to get better at a depletion workout, but since I'm lifting all week, I hate to turn around and work the muscles all over again on Fri. Would a long cardio session on Fri serve to deplete glycogen for me, or should I go to the standard Leg/Ab's on Mon, upper body on Tuesday, and total body on Fri?

 

[ThomasRivera]

Why not do a depletion workout? It's not nearly as physically straining as your other days should be. Depletion days should be high rep, 12-15 reps, high rep, quick movement between exercises. It sets up very positive movements in your body and an efficient carb load.

 

[wookie]

I guess I just can't get over the fear of overtraining as I am used to working each muscle group to exhaustion once a week. If I've just worked out a muscle group the day before (chest), will I cause problems by hitting it again while circuit training on a depletion workout? I guess I could go easy on the chest for the last workout and focus more on my legs, abs, etc.

Do you think I'd be okay sticking to the split routine with a final total body depletion workout --- Or should I just go with what Llye McDonald recommends?

 

[ShadowFury]

Depletion is high rep low weight right?

And I do split for my depletion, but I dunno if that's right, sooo, lol.

Speaking of depletion workout, mine starts in an hour :O

 

[ThomasRivera]

Why not move chest to shoulder and tricep day?

On CKD the smaller muscle groups, the biceps, the triceps, calves, shoulders, they don't need as much work as the other muscles do because they hold comparatively less glycogen than the other muscles and are involved with alot of other movements.

If you want to keep your 4 day split do the major groups as close to the start of the week as possible so that your not as worn out for the depletion.

 

[wookie]

Thanks, I think that's a much better idea. Will also give me another day for some cardio. Appreciate it Thomas!

 

[ShadowFury]

Dang, tonight was awesome. Had some insane energy with all the gatorade and power bars I stacked up on ^_^

During my carb ups, on Saturdays, should I still take LR?

 

[ThomasRivera]

I honestly have no idea what LR is.

 

[ShadowFury]

Leviathan Reloaded

And I am already lookin a bit bloated in my stomach, but my muscles are definately full Should I keep carbing all of tomorrow with my complex, or just stop now? I dunno how bloated to get

Eating my cereal and no fat yogurt now

 

[wookie]

I wouldn't take the LR on carb up days as it contains yohimbine, which is not very effective when taken with carbs. I was always told save it for low carb days as it works better on low carb diets.

 

[ShadowFury]

Alright, thanks, guess I wasted 2 pills then ^_^


After our practice last night, I dunno if I am going to want to work my upper body after practices, so I am thinking I will just do 2 days a week of upper body(Friday for depletion, and probably Wednesday) I am also going to go with the Isopure shake, should I take it before practice, or afterwards? I was told beforehand would be good for the BCAAs, but I thought it should have been afterwards, so now I'm confused...AGAIN.

My last meal is at about 1 PM, and practice starts at 3 PM and goes to 5 PM.