CKD and cardio

[ThomasRivera]

Salmon it is then, I only bought one box of tilapia, and that stuff sucked <_< I work at an Ihop till I graduate, and I either get a burger with no bun + cheese and some broccoli, or the tilapia, it's actually good there though.

I've heard some people eating a fruit or having some carbs before there workout, and only then. Is that OK? Or does it kick you out of ketosis? The broccoli is the only thing I have that has some carbs, only because it's fiber. I have it prolly twice a week, because I'm also taking a multi so I'm not too worried about fiber.

I'd like to just have a drink like a Monster or something before practice, but not sure if it's advised or whatever. Sorry for all the questions by the way, I've looked for all the CKD threads here and on 2 or 3 other sites, and most of them have the same stuff, so I'm forced to ask <_< And thanks for all the help :box:

Dr. Mauro Di Pasquale in his book the anabolic solution suggests not to intake carbs before working out because it compromises some of the fat burning capabilities. I personally wouldn't eat most fruit because of the fructose. While fruits don't contain all fructose, the majority of them contain mostly fructose. On CKD your limited in carbs anyway, so you might as well intake those that have a higher chance to be taken in as muscle glycogen rather than liver glycogen, which fruit will preferentially restore.

Broccoli is fine, nuts as long as you monitor the carbs, lettuce is good.

This book is what you need to read.

 

[ShadowFury]

Thanks, I'll start readin more on it tonight, gotta go to work now <_<

 

[ThomasRivera]

No problem. One of the best books to read on it. Lyle McDonalds Ketogenic Dieting book is also very good to read on it, while Dr. Mauro and other auothors do give more elaborate diets, Lyle gives a base breakdown and fundamentals.

 

[tribaltek]

On TKD (which is what I did for a whopping 10 days this month) you can eat fruits/carbs before your workout, but that is totally different than CKD. CKD carb-up is on the weekend, and the workouts are different because of it.

Talapia is garbage. I will never eat that **** again. If you have to eat that or a burger, eat the burger, as it fits more into this diet (and tastes better anyways). You can add some mayo on the burger as well!

 

[ThomasRivera]

Mayo's very good, especially mayo with chipotles and mustard blended into it. Full fat cheeses also work well.

 

[walugi]

I imagine not many people are told that they have to control their intake of broccoli

So other then meat, and fish what is okay to eat?

Lettuce
Broccoli
Peas?

 

[ThomasRivera]

I imagine not many people are told that they have to control their intake of broccoli

So other then meat, and fish what is okay to eat?

Lettuce
Broccoli
Peas?

Walnuts, peanuts, almonds, oils, heavy cream, mayo, butter, some cream cheeses in moderation, sugar free jello.

http://kitchen-parade-veggieventure.blogspot.com/2008/01/how-many-carbs-are-in-vegetables.html#four_netcarb_vegetables

 

[tribaltek]

From the old CKD website -

All Fish:
Tuna, Samon, Sole, Trout, Flounder, Sardines, Herring, Anchovies

All Meat:
Beef, Pork, Lamb, Veal, Venison, Ham*, Bacon*

All Fowl:
Chicken, Turkey, Duck, Goose, Cornish Hen, Quail, Pheasant

All Shellfish:
Oysters, Crabmeat, Shrimp, Lobster, Clams, Squid, Mussels

All Eggs:
Scrambled, Fried, Poached, Deviled, Hard-boiled, Soft-boiled, Omelets

*Processed meats, such as ham, bacon, pepperoni, salami, hot dogs and other luncheon meats may have added sugar and will contribute carbs. Try to avoid meat and fish products cured with nitrates.

Snacks-On-The-Go:
String Cheese, Beef Jerky, Turkey Jerky, Olives, Low Carb Bars

Information about Low Carb Bars:
Low Carbohydrate bars often have a label for net carbs. Net carbs are the total amount of carbohydrates in grams, minus the total amount of carbohydrates that do not impact your blood sugar. For example, a Low Carb bar may have 14 grams of Total Carbohydrate and 12 of those 14 grams are non-impact carbs. Meaning that only 2 carbs (14g-12g) should be counted towards your daily carb totals. Only 2 carbs have an effect on your blood sugar and need to be counted.

Information about Fiber:
Fiber is considered a carbohydrate on nutriton labels but does not have any effect on blood sugar levels. For example, if a product has a Total Carbohydrate of 4 grams and 1 gram of fiber, only 3 (4-1) grams of carbohydrates count towards your daily totals, as these 3 carbs have an effect on your blood sugar.

Cheeses:
Cheddar, Cream Cheese, Swiss, Mozzarella, Gouda, Goat, Roquefort, Other Blue Cheeses

Low-Carb Vegetables:
Peppers, Mushrooms, Celery, Cucumber, Lettuce, Romaine Lettuce, Radishes, Bok Choy, Parsley

Low-Moderate Carb Vegetables:
Artichoke, Asparagus, Snow Peas, Spinach, Broccoli, Spaghetti Squash, Eggplant, Brussel Sprouts, Tomato, Cabbage, Turnips, Onion, Zucchini, Cauliflower

Salad Garnishes:
Grated Cheese, Sour Cream, Hard-Boiled Egg, Mushrooms, Bacon, Oil, Vinegar, Full-Fat Salad Dressing

Herbs & Spices:
All Spices, Garlic, Basil, Pepper, Dill, Thyme, Oregano, Ginger, Rosemary, Sage

Fats & Oils:
Olive Oil, Vegetable Oil, Canola Oil, Walnut Oil, Soybean Oil, Grapeseed Oil, Sesame Oil, Sunflower Oil, Safflower Oil, Butter

Artificial Sweetners:
Sucralose (Splenda), Saccharin (Sweet N' Low)

Beverages:
Filtered, Mineral, Spring, Tap Water, Club Soda, Heavy Cream, Decaf Coffee, Decaf Tea, Herb Tea, Lemon Juice

 

[ShadowFury]

Dang, ofcourse the big discussion goes on while I'm at work <_<

Alright, I picked up some egg patty things from walmart after work, it's basically the egg part of what you would get at a McDonalds morning sandwich, and it has 1 sugar carb. Also got sausage patties, they have 1 sugar carb as well, so I figured I could just combine them and have 4 carbs in one meal(2 of each, then add some cheese and whatnot) for probably breakfast, then lunch will be some salmon I picked up and beef, and dinner will be my eggs/cheese/beef.

To walugi: Just watchout on your almonds, peanuts, and walnuts. They will slaughter your carb-count if you aren't careful. I was having 2-3 servings a day, and that was popping mine up, and I was having peanut butter >_< But since I cut those out everything's been good. Now I have a serving of walnuts(1 oz.) and that's the only thing I have that has more than 1 carb in it.

And also, I didn't notice this before, but I can have unsweet tea/coffee with Splenda? I thought sweeteners were out :S

 

[ThomasRivera]

Usually sweeteners are suggested after ketosis is established, same with lemon juice. Then again some people say that sweeteners effect their ketosis, so its up for grabs.

 

[tribaltek]

I've never had an issue with Splenda, but everybody reacts differently. There are some people that will come out of Keto after drinking a diet Coke! That has to suck.

I eat almonds and peanut butter while low-carbin', you just have to keep the serving size down. Also, the peanut butter I eat has less carbs than most (and more protein) - Naturally More - What Peanut Butter Should Be (you can find it at Wal-Mart).

Lastly, these will help you stay low carb AND get a ton of fiber in -

 

[ShadowFury]

That's the peanut butter I was getting, but got too frikkin addicted, lol. Thanks for the unsweetened jell-o idea too, just grabbed a lot of that, I love jell-0

Also for the tortillas, didn't even think to look for anything that is remotely related to bread, lol.

 

[tribaltek]

Remember that those tortillias still have 5g net carb, so don't go overboard. 1 a day, tops. The extra fiber is great though. And they actually taste pretty damn good.

Low carb tort + ground chuck + cheese = yummy.

 

[ShadowFury]

Ya, I'm thinking I'll have one every 2 or 3 days or so, and then never have the PB on the same day.

Also doing the shake + oil, and it tastes interesting, lol.
I'm going to have some Splenda today or tomorrow to see how it affects me, I pray to God it doesn't kick me out <_< I have only been drinking water, and I want some frikkin coffee or tea

 

[ShadowFury]

Sorry for the double post, but I figured I'd update you guys on how it is going since I started this topic. I was at about 150-151 and with about 16% BF. Now I'm about 154 and it says 15% BF.

 

[tribaltek]

Holy crap, I didn't realize you were so small. Why the hell are you doing low-carb?

Also, coffee and tea taste fine without Splenda. Hell, at least its something different.

 

[ShadowFury]

Lol, ya, I just want to cut fat mainly around my stomach, some on my chest, and then just build LBM. I figured this would be the best way to do it after I read up on it. I was doing a normal diet with, I think it was 40/40/20. I remember that's what it was, just don't remember the order, lol. I only did it for 3 weeks or so, and it was going well, but then I switched to this.

Am I still fine being my size and doing CKD + Levi? Or should I up my protein/fat to build more LBM while on it?

 

[ThomasRivera]

I generally think that Keto is good at any body weight. But depending on build, when someone says 150 5'7, I don't think as flabby.

one of my favorite deserts while on Keto

 

[allstar]

what is that thomas?

 

[ThomasRivera]

It's "ice cream". Whipped cream until fairly stiff, then strawberry-banana sugar free jello and strawberry protein shake is mixed in, formed in plastic wrap and let to harden in the freezer.

I've been toying around with the idea of buying an ice cream maker after I get a new job to try to make some high fat, low carb ice cream.

 

[allstar]

Nice man, you always seem to have some good food up your sleeve

 

[ThomasRivera]

Thanks. I like cooking. I'm not the best at it, most of my foods include a big list of peppers. But I just watch the food network alot, look for foods that I can substitute out sugar from. Usually comes in decent.

 

[ShadowFury]

Dang, that looks soooo good, lol. I haven't even thought about sugar free stuff, so I have had nothing but my meats and junk since I started <_< I'll be searching up and down for stuff now, and that looks like an awesome dessert

 

[ThomasRivera]

It is pretty good. I've been looking for bitter chocolate to coat it with. Im assuming it should be lower carb than semi-bitter. But its definitely good as is.

 

[ShadowFury]

Some chocolate would be awesome

And the jell-0 isn't affecting me for keto, I'm still in it and going deeper in it, so that's a plus, time to load up on jello now

I fell asleep early, and woke up too frikkin early, so now I'm making 30 sausage patties, 8 salmon burgers, and bacon for the next who knows how many days <_<

 

[walugi]

guy what do you do about calcium, because milk has quite a few carbs

also, lol at ice cream. I looked at it for a while and ended up thinking it was some strange exotic meat, or some strangely made chicken breast

 

[walugi]

check out this book we can 'preview'

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=1LvPxvFleRoC&pg=PA121&lpg=PA121&dq=low+carb+stew&source=web&ots=jbWmXnS8us&sig=lMl5mGISaQa97ZumtDn2cJVp1iE&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=5&ct=result#PPA42,M1

It's pretty sweet

 

[ThomasRivera]

I drink some whole milk everyday, I also get a multivitamin in. You can also count the calcium content in vegetables, and better yet CHEESE.

 

[ShadowFury]

Yup, cheese has 40% per serving of what I use

Just got my LR, and got 3 samples of Basic Cuts, so I gotta do research on when to use that now too <_<

I love Nutra, samples and I didn't even ask

EDIT: OK, looked up Basic Cuts, and it looks like a little less-potent version of LR, should I use them together? Or just use all my LR then use them while I'm waiting for my next bottle to come in? If it works I'll be getting a second one, or AP, seeing as I've also heard good stuff about that.

 

[tribaltek]

Milk isn't advisable during low-carb days with CKD. WAY too much sugar (lactose).

I drink some whole milk everyday

 

[tribaltek]

Shadow - No need in stacking basic cuts on top of LR. LR does the job well by itself. If you're looking to stack something on top of it, look for a non-stimulant like DCP, CLA, Sesamin, etc...

 

[ShadowFury]

Alright, thanks...again ^_^

 

[ThomasRivera]

Milk isn't advisable during low-carb days with CKD. WAY too much sugar (lactose).

Yeah, I know the sugar amount in it. 12 a cup, I function well off of around 30-40 carbs a day. Even with the milk and various trace carbs from other things I stay in keto through the day.

 

[ShadowFury]

Dang, you lucky bum, lol. The jello actually kicked me out of keto, it just took a little while <_< So there goes my jello, lol. I wasn't far in though, so that might have been it. I'm prolly not going to do my refeed this week just because last night or so I noticed it kicked me out, and I won't be back in till prolly tomorrow <_< Maybe I'll just kick my refeed to Saturday all day. Have any of you found the best refeed length? I have heard the Friday after workout to Sat midnight, and then one from Fri after workout till Fri midnight, and then the obvious one from Fri night to Sun midnight.

 

[ThomasRivera]

Sorry about that. JEllo has never done that to me. Some people determine their refeed length by how they look, they stop by the time where they start to look bloated. Which is probably easier at lower body fat percentages. I go for a 48 hour carb load.

 

[walugi]

I thought the refeed length was just one meal?

Also, you guys make keto sound like a hole. How can you tell if you've gone further into keto? I thought you were either in or out

 

[ShadowFury]

It's fine, I am going to re-try the jello when I am deeper in, if I'm between 80 and 160 I'll prolly try again.

Thanks for the refeed info, I wasn't sure how to gauge what to do, no one ever said that in any topics or write-ups <_<

EDIT: wal, the keto stix have different keto counts, 80-160 is what I shoot for, because that means you are deeper(Than say, 20) and you're body is more efficient at burning the fat for energy. Atleast that's what I THINK ^_^

The refeed is just an amount of carbs, from what I have read, your body stores the carbs into your muscles so you can refill what you have been using for your workouts for the week. I also read that it doesn't matter if you have all the carbs in one meal, or if you have them in 12, your body stores the carbs no matter what. Eating 560 or so carbs in one meal just seems to hard for me <_<

Also, in the keto thread here, there is an excel sheet someone made that makes it insanely easy to find all your carbs/fats/proteins you will need. Just put in your BF % and weight.


EDIT...again: It won't let me attach the .doc, so I'll link you if you need it.

 

[ThomasRivera]

I thought the refeed length was just one meal?

Also, you guys make keto sound like a hole. How can you tell if you've gone further into keto? I thought you were either in or out

It really depends on the type of diet you go on. There are alot of variations on it. Some people eat carbs once every 18 meals. Some eat one carb meal a week. Some variations like the one I do its 24-48 hours.

AS for how deep your in, the keto sticks can lie, if you have drank too much water it can dilute the concentration of ketones in your urine and give a lower number or a false negative. However, generally at around 3 days you should be in ketosis on low carbs, and at three weeks your brain should require the lowest amount of glucose that it will need to run properly.

 

[walugi]

I tried to put it into a google doc, it doesnt let you upload .xls

Google Docs - ckd info

edit: YOu can click edit on the bottom right or just go to this link instead:

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pespTgKV2SC8DGthbOxa6NA

 

[ShadowFury]

Nice, that's the sheet

DANGIT, now I know why the stix say I'm not in keto then. I have been drinking so much frikkin water, it's scary, lol.

Maybe jello is not doing it
It is definately sweet when your brain and body get used to no-low carbs, I have energy all the time now. It's weird, I rarely get those moments where I feel like doing nothing now. Now that I'm adding LR, life will be grand

 

[walugi]

Are there set workouts for CKD which i have to follow?

In the spreadsheet for example, my gym has no T-Bar. I'm not strong enough to do 3 sets of dips Gym also doesnt have a reverse fly's machine

And no deadlifts?! Only stiff legged ones
I was hoping to do squats more than twice a week.

 

[ThomasRivera]

Use the exercise list they have their as a loose guideline. The wide variety of exercises is to ensure your depleting glycogen from as many muscles as possible. However, if you stick to your own routine, making sure that your hitting your muscles properly it shouldn't be a problem. Especially if your doing a depletion workout.

 

[walugi]

Cool, thanks for the info

So it won;t be a problem if i'm working out harden then what they say.

Also, should the diet by modified if I plan to workout twice a day on some days? I'm looking to hit the gym around 6 times a week and then doing HIIT on 2-3 days

 

[ThomasRivera]

Nice, that's the sheet

DANGIT, now I know why the stix say I'm not in keto then. I have been drinking so much frikkin water, it's scary, lol.

Maybe jello is not doing it
It is definately sweet when your brain and body get used to no-low carbs, I have energy all the time now. It's weird, I rarely get those moments where I feel like doing nothing now. Now that I'm adding LR, life will be grand

Yeah it is sweet. Ive been on some form or another of low carb dieting for about the past year. After a while you get a good feel on what you need to do.

 

[ShadowFury]

Ya, I'm doing a totally different workout. Some of it is the same, but I am doing my own routine.
I don't even do a leg day, I know I should, but I do my workout at home with a machine and dumbells, etc...
I just run for about 40 mins, and then the HIIT on Thursday(So muscles have some time before final workout,which is all muscle groups) and also HIIT on Mondays, and possibly Saturday, if I feel up to it.

I'm still getting great results, so, meh, why fix what ain't broken?

Quick question though: It is around 40 degrees at 6 in the morning here, sometimes colder, and the HIIT in that weather kills my lungs(I run outside) So if I got a jump rope and just did 50 secs or so normal, then 10 secs fast, would I get the same benefits? I've heard of people doing rope instead of running, but I didn't know if there was any significant differences.


EDIT: I plan on doing something like that River, I don't see any need to stop doing CKD, I have awesome energy, I feel better(dunno why,lol) and the food is great. I sometimes use my refeed as a cheat day too, just 1 or 2 things I usually don't eat, usually involving lots of sugar ^_^ I only really do that because I know I can do a massive workout on Sunday, because of all the carbs I just got, and I can help work the extra .3 of a pound I gain from all the sugar

 

[ThomasRivera]

Cool, thanks for the info

So it won;t be a problem if i'm working out harden then what they say.

Also, should the diet by modified if I plan to workout twice a day on some days? I'm looking to hit the gym around 6 times a week and then doing HIIT on 2-3 days

No, it shouldn't, my workouts are higher volume than what is usuall y suggested, I just make sure that if im doing back day I hit every muscle well, leg day, hit everyone well. I will look around for the information, but what I do on this diet a lot while cutting is varying calorie intake during the week. The body is more primed to adapt to taking in excess calories. So say I do a 5 day low calorie stint. Instead of 2000 a day I do something like

Day 1:1700
Day 2:2300
Day 3:1700
Day 4:2300
Day 5:2000

Something like that. I keep the higher calorie days for heavier workout days and it seems to help my fat loss. What type of CKD program are you looking to do?

 

[ThomasRivera]

Ya, I'm doing a totally different workout. Some of it is the same, but I am doing my own routine.
I don't even do a leg day, I know I should, but I do my workout at home with a machine and dumbells, etc...
I just run for about 40 mins, and then the HIIT on Thursday(So muscles have some time before final workout,which is all muscle groups) and also HIIT on Mondays, and possibly Saturday, if I feel up to it.

I'm still getting great results, so, meh, why fix what ain't broken?

Quick question though: It is around 40 degrees at 6 in the morning here, sometimes colder, and the HIIT in that weather kills my lungs(I run outside) So if I got a jump rope and just did 50 secs or so normal, then 10 secs fast, would I get the same benefits? I've heard of people doing rope instead of running, but I didn't know if there was any significant differences.


EDIT: I plan on doing something like that River, I don't see any need to stop doing CKD, I have awesome energy, I feel better(dunno why,lol) and the food is great. I sometimes use my refeed as a cheat day too, just 1 or 2 things I usually don't eat, usually involving lots of sugar ^_^ I only really do that because I know I can do a massive workout on Sunday, because of all the carbs I just got, and I can help work the extra .3 of a pound I gain from all the sugar

It depends how good you are at jump rope. Some guys just don't go that fast and when they do might be too good at it for the same sprint effect. Try it, see how you feel. If it doesn't feel the same, try a cardio bike.

I gain somewhere around 5-6 pounds during my refeeds. My refeeds usually include 24 hours of popcorn, bread, white rice, beans, some steak, chicken, candy, very small amounts of fruits. Ahh that muscular swell feels great.

 

[ShadowFury]

So true ^_^

Alright, I'll try the rope and see how it goes the first day. Gonna try it on Thursday.

Also, I'm eating walnuts everyday(not a lot obviously) and I am definately starting to taste how bland they are. Is there any way to give em some flavor? Put em in a bad with salt and shake it? Or is there some spice or anything?

I may switch off/on with peanuts if there isn't anything for the blandness of em.

 

[ThomasRivera]

I would just link you over to the other thread that Rugger brought up about walnuts. But follow one of these two links

http://www.myhomecooking.net/chocolate-chip-cookies/roasting-walnuts.htm
http://www.ehow.com/how_2282365_roast-walnuts.html

You can salt them, toss them with your favorite seasonings. A little bit of a neutral flavored oil can help with the coating.

 

[ShadowFury]

Well, I might have made a typo...I meant almonds, lol. Sorry <_<

Was an interesting start of a read though, noone's ever told me to put my walnuts on a cookie sheet, lol