Can't go wrong with Epi-Strong

[JCunningham]

Lets get your gains rolling oldie!

 

[DreamWeaver]

Lets get your gains rolling oldie!

Sure they're right around the corner..

 

[andrew732]

Can't believe I missed this review lol

 

[thundergod]

Hey guys don't know why I didn't think of this before, any advantage to running Testopro during cycle as people do with HCGenerate? The products do have similarities.

Save the Testo-Pro for your PCT Doug. It would be pointless to include a natty test-booster on top of a designer steroid like Epi-Strong. It would be like tossing a handful of sand into the Sahara Desert. LOL

If you really want to use something to free up bound testosterone, I suggest 2 or 3 grams of Avena Sativa (Avenacosides) daily in 3 divided doses. Morning, noon, and early evenings.

At this high dosage, Avena Sativa will function much like a low dose of Proviron.
Here's some info I dug up for ya:



Proviron is an interesting and often overlooked bodybuilding drug. It’s an orally active form of DHT (Dihydrotestosterone) and as such, a proviron cycle delivers all the good and all the bad that DHT has to offer the bodybuilder.

As for the good, DHT from a Proviron cycle is a pure androgen, but unlike testosterone, DHT doesn’t cause any water retention. DHT is what makes muscle “hard.” And it lowers SHBG (Sex hormone Binding Globulin) which prevents estrogen from forming. By preventing estrogen from forming, DHT can be used to prevent the aromatization of other steroids. This means that DHT from a proviron cycle can keep steroids in the testosterone family from converting to estrogen and causing in men estrogen related side effects like gynecomastia. DHT also contributes to erectile rigidity. All good stuff!

But, where does Proviron fall into the equation? Well, proviron can be a nice addition to any cycle for a variety of reasons. Since it lowers SHBG it allows for more total testosterone to become bioavailable. Up to 90% of testosterone, be it natural or administered, remains in a “bound” state (due to SHBG) rendering it useless for building muscle. Proviron releases more active testosterone into the bloodstream so you can get more of its benefits.

Proviron also works well as an anti estrogen, in fact, it’s superior to most traditional anti e’s such as Nolvadex because there is no rebound effect. Instead of removing estrogen, proviron prevents the formation of estrogen in the first place.

Proviron is excellent for contest preparation because it adds density and definition. You see, androgen receptors are found in your fat cells as well as muscle cells and DHT binds so well that there’s a distinct fat burning effect from its use.

There have recently been advances in natural alternatives to Proviron. Avenacosides have been shown to lower SHBG and to raise free testosterone by as much as 20%. Since Proviron is used mostly as an ancillary substance and does not have much of an effect of actual growth, more and more people are opting to go the natural route. Although Avenacosides won’t work quite as well, they are effective and can be used in conjunction with a lower dose of Proviron for an even more powerful muscle hardening/libido enhancing effect.

Dosage:

At a dosage of 50 mgs a day, Proviron can lower estrogen into single digits and produce a very polished look to your muscles.

 

[DreamWeaver]

Can't believe I missed this review lol

Hey Andrew just started dosing yesterday so you haven't missed much...

Save the Testo-Pro for your PCT Doug. It would be pointless to include a natty test-booster on top of a designer steroid like Epi-Strong. It would be like tossing a handful of sand into the Sahara Desert. LOL

If you really want to use something to free up bound testosterone, I suggest 2 or 3 grams of Avena Sativa (Avenacosides) daily in 3 divided doses. Morning, noon, and early evenings.

At this high dosage, Avena Sativa will function much like a low dose of Proviron.
Here's some info I dug up for ya:



Proviron is an interesting and often overlooked bodybuilding drug. It’s an orally active form of DHT (Dihydrotestosterone) and as such, a proviron cycle delivers all the good and all the bad that DHT has to offer the bodybuilder.

As for the good, DHT from a Proviron cycle is a pure androgen, but unlike testosterone, DHT doesn’t cause any water retention. DHT is what makes muscle “hard.” And it lowers SHBG (Sex hormone Binding Globulin) which prevents estrogen from forming. By preventing estrogen from forming, DHT can be used to prevent the aromatization of other steroids. This means that DHT from a proviron cycle can keep steroids in the testosterone family from converting to estrogen and causing in men estrogen related side effects like gynecomastia. DHT also contributes to erectile rigidity. All good stuff!

But, where does Proviron fall into the equation? Well, proviron can be a nice addition to any cycle for a variety of reasons. Since it lowers SHBG it allows for more total testosterone to become bioavailable. Up to 90% of testosterone, be it natural or administered, remains in a “bound” state (due to SHBG) rendering it useless for building muscle. Proviron releases more active testosterone into the bloodstream so you can get more of its benefits.

Proviron also works well as an anti estrogen, in fact, it’s superior to most traditional anti e’s such as Nolvadex because there is no rebound effect. Instead of removing estrogen, proviron prevents the formation of estrogen in the first place.

Proviron is excellent for contest preparation because it adds density and definition. You see, androgen receptors are found in your fat cells as well as muscle cells and DHT binds so well that there’s a distinct fat burning effect from its use.

There have recently been advances in natural alternatives to Proviron. Avenacosides have been shown to lower SHBG and to raise free testosterone by as much as 20%. Since Proviron is used mostly as an ancillary substance and does not have much of an effect of actual growth, more and more people are opting to go the natural route. Although Avenacosides won’t work quite as well, they are effective and can be used in conjunction with a lower dose of Proviron for an even more powerful muscle hardening/libido enhancing effect.

Dosage:

At a dosage of 50 mgs a day, Proviron can lower estrogen into single digits and produce a very polished look to your muscles.

Actually that's what Divanil does is lower shbg is it not .... well it binds to shbg allowing more free test.

 

[A_I_Sports_Nutrition]

Hey Andrew just started dosing yesterday so you haven't missed much...



Actually that's what Divanil does is lower shbg is it not .... well it binds to shbg allowing more free test.

I agree with TG here. It may help some during the cycle it would be more effective in PCT. Just my .02

 

[SouthernCharm]

wow that bit on proviron makes me very interested in adding some... i mean 600mg of test e/wk and i could be getting more out of it

 

[DreamWeaver]

wow that bit on proviron makes me very interested in adding some... i mean 600mg of test e/wk and i could be getting more out of it

Yah Proviron would be sweat but that would be crossing the line and make me ineligible to compete with UFE and Fame.

So end of second day did 45 minutes of cardio then went for a 7 K walk picked up some more fish oil and some protein. Made homemade protein bars for next week. Also picked up some egg whites. All part of my plan to add about 120-150 grams of protein to my diet during cycle.

Chest and back tomorrow morning...

 

[JCunningham]

Have you ever thought about using test suspension? You practically wouldnt be able to be caught using it if you are tested as the active HL and detection time is so short..

 

[DreamWeaver]

Have you ever thought about using test suspension? You practically wouldnt be able to be caught using it if you are tested as the active HL and detection time is so short..

It's not a matter of getting caught for me, it's a matter of abiding by the rules of the contest.

 

[FlexW99]

It's not a matter of getting caught for me, it's a matter of abiding by the rules of the contest.

Great point my man. Why cheat? Just get into the organization that supports it if you wanna go that route.

 

[JCunningham]

How is epithio treating you, ya old fart?

 

[DreamWeaver]

Great point my man. Why cheat? Just get into the organization that supports it if you wanna go that route.

Yah the current org I am thinking of for this year UFE allows anything that's legal in the US or Canada.

How is epithio treating you, ya old fart?

Hard to say, still pretty early. I had good power yesterday but the stamina wasn't there, which is completely normal first week of Giant sets.

 

[DreamWeaver]

Like I said good power to start out but it wasn't long before I had to drop the weight to get the sets done.

Chest Flat db bench 80 lb db's drop to 70's ss
30 degree incline flies 60 lb db's drop 50 ss
Decline db press 70 lb db's drop 60's ouch!

I tried the same weight with the second set and missed some reps and was down by at least 10 lbs on all lifts by the third which I barely survived. Might be the 3rd week before I can do 4 cycles. I felt like puking after the second and that feeling did not leave me through the rest of the workout.

Back extended arm lat pulldown 60 drop to 50 ss
Wide lat pulldown 180 drop 165 ss
Supine grip lat pulldown 165 drop 150 ss
Weighted lat shrugs 45 lbs

by the third set I was down 30 lbs on the second and third exercise, was ok on the rest.

Seated row 120 ss Bent over rows 135 ok on all 3 sets I was planning to go a bit heavier but I was out of gas.

Ok I got the crap kicked out of me, nothing new on this routine, I just forgot how hard it was, makes HST look like a picnic...

I am pleased with my strength in the early going and things will improve immensely in the second week as I get acustomed to the intensity. First week is always brutal...

 

[DreamWeaver]

Couple things that I forgot to mention, I seem to have a loss in appetite and cravings. This could be the cold that is trying to get me, so far I have been able to fight it off, but thought I shold mention it anyways.

My libido is through the fuggin roof, I know it usually is but this is just nasty....

 

[Kristofer68SS]

how many days in DW?

 

[oufinny]

Dang that is a serious workout DW, I would be ready to hurl after it as well. SS are mean if you do them in rapid succession and it seems like you have a very rough setup there.

 

[DreamWeaver]

how many days in DW?

This day 4, libido thing started late day 2 and got worse day 3.

Dang that is a serious workout DW, I would be ready to hurl after it as well. SS are mean if you do them in rapid succession and it seems like you have a very rough setup there.

Yah this routine takes some getting used to. Like I said the second week always shows big improvements in stamina...

 

[DreamWeaver]

Now Day 5 not really feeling anything yet besides the libido thing and that has stabilized somewhat. Just cardio 2 5k walks yesterday and 5k again this morning. I am extreemly sore from Sunday's beating, this was one of the best chest workouts I have had in years, I know all this pain will convert to gains.

I am very tired as I stayed up to watch the game last night. I wonder what the record is for a team knocking QB's out of the the game. That's 5 now for the Giants...I am also fighting a cold which makes me pretty tired. I am loolking at the Jacked on my desk and it's tempting but have to save it for tonights shoulder and arm butchering...

 

[A_I_Sports_Nutrition]

Now Day 5 not really feeling anything yet besides the libido thing and that has stabilized somewhat. Just cardio 2 5k walks yesterday and 5k again this morning. I am extreemly sore from Sunday's beating, this was one of the best chest workouts I have had in years, I know all this pain will convert to gains.

I am very tired as I stayed up to watch the game last night. I wonder what the record is for a team knocking QB's out of the the game. That's 5 now for the Giants...I am also fighting a cold which makes me pretty tired. I am loolking at the Jacked on my desk and it's tempting but have to save it for tonights shoulder and arm butchering...

I would say by the middle of week 2 you should really start to feel the effects. The hunger thing didn't happen to me thankfully.

 

[DreamWeaver]

I would say by the middle of week 2 you should really start to feel the effects. The hunger thing didn't happen to me thankfully.

The hunger thing could be unrelated, I eat what I need to anyway...

 

[A_I_Sports_Nutrition]

The hunger thing could be unrelated, I eat what I need to anyway...

Yeah if you have been fighting off a bug then that maybe more of what is happening.

 

[DreamWeaver]

Yeah if you have been fighting off a bug then that maybe more of what is happening.

Yah that's part of it I'm sure...

Observation time!! Didn't want to say anything when it happened the first time but there is some definite signs of nutrient partitioning going down. You heard I mentioned I was very tired well I noticed when I ate my mid morning snack and it pepped me up a bit well just had lunch and same thing. Not only a extra energy thing but a slight rise in body temp as I feel quite warm... Interesting...

 

[A_I_Sports_Nutrition]

Yah that's part of it I'm sure...

Observation time!! Didn't want to say anything when it happened the first time but there is some definite signs of nutrient partitioning going down. You heard I mentioned I was very tired well I noticed when I ate my mid morning snack and it pepped me up a bit well just had lunch and same thing. Not only a extra energy thing but a slight rise in body temp as I feel quite warm... Interesting...

It maybe sarting to kick in. I forgot what dose are you starting off with?

 

[DreamWeaver]

It maybe sarting to kick in. I forgot what dose are you starting off with?

30 mg...

 

[A_I_Sports_Nutrition]

30 mg...

Good dose it should really kick into high gear soon.

 

[DreamWeaver]

Good dose it should really kick into high gear soon.

Well I'm up against it tonight either way more Giant sets!! I will have to hit the stims for this one....

 

[oufinny]

30 mg...

MMMMMM.... 30 mg of Epi sounds like a good time right there. Man I am so not happy I can't do anything crazy until next year! :twak:

 

[MrKleen73]

Doug here it comes man! Get ready to explode! About 3 days until the madness ensues. Epi made me incredibly strong starting around day 8 or so.

 

[RickRock13]

Doug here it comes man! Get ready to explode! About 3 days until the madness ensues. Epi made me incredibly strong starting around day 8 or so.

I have to agree with this. Strength seemed to pour on around the same time for me

 

[edwitt]

Looking good

 

[JCunningham]

I say increase to 45mg..

I am on 75mg right now and it is fun.

 

[andrew732]

I bet it is

 

[DreamWeaver]

Doug here it comes man! Get ready to explode! About 3 days until the madness ensues. Epi made me incredibly strong starting around day 8 or so.

I have to agree with this. Strength seemed to pour on around the same time for me

Good to know, so next week will be crazy...

I say increase to 45mg..

I am on 75mg right now and it is fun.

I bet it is

Yah I still feel I have to be a bit cautious. I may go to 45 a week early but I have Dermatherm to add on Friday so that should pick things up.

 

[DreamWeaver]

Another absolutely brutal night but I held the course a little better. I was pretty exhausted as I did not sleep enough the night before. I walked 20k yesterday as well. To and from work to and from the gym 5k each way. That's about 12 miles.

Shoulders bent over rear delt flies 30 lb db's drop 25's db's ss
Lateral raise 25 lb db's drop 20 lb db's ss
Front raise 25's drop 20's

I got almost all the reps and didn't back off on the weight but it was tough and the nausea started to kick in around the 3rd set...

Arms
30 degree incline cable extensions 100 drop 90 too light went to 110 100 ss
30 degree incline alt db curl 40's drop to 32.5's ss
XFace tri extensions 32.5 drop to 25 ss
Prone Db curl 32.5 drop 25

These are pretty agressive numbers for this routine. I was experiencing so much nausea by the third set that I could barely bend over. The 3rd set I really conentrated on breathing and slowing things down. I got through it in fine shape. Not too many reps missed no drop in weight.

The walk home was brutal I was so exhausted. Went straight to bed when I got home but unfortunately was up every 2 hours to go the washroom. I drank about 6 to 7 litres of water yesterday. I am very thirsty and was a bit puffy last night so was holding some water.

I am very very sore today and kind of dreading leg day.

 

[A_I_Sports_Nutrition]

I say increase to 45mg..

I am on 75mg right now and it is fun.

75mg is too high IMHO.

 

[DreamWeaver]

75mg is too high IMHO.

Yah sounds high to me... I will go up to 45 at the start of week 3 for sure maybe a bit sooner and then decide from there. You just don't blindly increase dosage without knowing what 30 or 45 is going to do. If by day 8 I am not feeling as much as I should I'll go to 45 a bit early. Today is day 6 and I do feel slightly stronger but I have literally kicked the crap out of myself..:eek13:

 

[A_I_Sports_Nutrition]

Yah sounds high to me... I will go up to 45 at the start of week 3 for sure maybe a bit sooner and then decide from there. You just don't blindly increase dosage without knowing what 30 or 45 is going to do. If by day 8 I am not feeling as much as I should I'll go to 45 a bit early. Today is day 6 and I do feel slightly stronger but I have literally kicked the crap out of myself..:eek13:

45mg should be a very good dose. My opinion on these things is to use the least amount possible while still getting results. When you start pushing the limits with doses like 75mg the much greater the chance of health concerns. These methylated designer steriods should not be taken lightly. They can and have caused health problem and it is usually from using too much or not taking the right precautions. More is not always better.

 

[DreamWeaver]

45mg should be a very good dose. My opinion on these things is to use the least amount possible while still getting results. When you start pushing the limits with doses like 75mg the much greater the chance of health concerns. These methylated designer steriods should not be taken lightly. They can and have caused health problem and it is usually from using too much or not taking the right precautions. More is not always better.

Yah that's the way I see it...

 

[FlexW99]

DW, I'm on day4 at 45/day and I'm starting to feel intensity ramping..cals are low low too. Good time await!

 

[maddbomber]

75mg is too high IMHO.

i thought i saw somewhere that the max dose for anyone was 60mg in a 24 hour period....

 

[Kristofer68SS]

I agree 45mg is going to do you well..

Log is looking great DW, keep up the great work.

KTS!

 

[JCunningham]

75mg is too high IMHO.

I am solely using this as a hardening agent to end my test cycle..

I know what I am doing broseph, thanks for looking out.

 

[DreamWeaver]

DW, I'm on day4 at 45/day and I'm starting to feel intensity ramping..cals are low low too. Good time await!

Yah I feel something starting to kick in, I will use Sunday's workout as a watermark on weather to increase dose to 45 mg...

I agree 45mg is going to do you well..

Log is looking great DW, keep up the great work.

KTS!

Good to know, and thanks

 

[DreamWeaver]

Just 10 k of walking yesterday. I am not sleeping as well as I would like. I was feeling poorly yesterday so I took a couple scoops of jacked that I had sitting at my desk. I think that was a mistake even though I took it very early. I think you need to work it off...

I feel ok today, I have legs tonight and that is going to be pretty rough, but it's a quick workout.

Will be adding Dermatherm and Toco-8 tomorrow as well.

 

[pablogdog]

Keep on killin' it DW!!!

 

[MrKleen73]

Looking good in here Doug, and 45 should treat you pretty nicely. I only went to 40mg when using Epistane and put on 8 lbs in 3 weeks. With the reported purity of this product 45 should be a very nice dose.

Some people have the Keith Richards gene (Edwitt, should change his screen name to MrNoSides) and some do not. I don't so I have to keep dosing minimal as possible to curb sides. I ended up with all the sides on Dymethazine but was able to keep them under control with support supps. Dosing is user dependent on more than just growth but also sides. You might as well see what the sides are with each dose until you reach the one that increases sides and then back down if needed. That way you are more in control. Nice it is in 15 mg incriments and very adjustable.

 

[DreamWeaver]

Keep on killin' it DW!!!

Well right now it's killin me, hope to turn that around this week, cuz when I do all hell's gonna break loose.

 

[pablogdog]

I have no doubt that you're getting ready to turn the table and KTS!

 

[DreamWeaver]

Looking good in here Doug, and 45 should treat you pretty nicely. I only went to 40mg when using Epistane and put on 8 lbs in 3 weeks. With the reported purity of this product 45 should be a very nice dose.

Some people have the Keith Richards gene (Edwitt, should change his screen name to MrNoSides) and some do not. I don't so I have to keep dosing minimal as possible to curb sides. I ended up with all the sides on Dymethazine but was able to keep them under control with support supps. Dosing is user dependent on more than just growth but also sides. You might as well see what the sides are with each dose until you reach the one that increases sides and then back down if needed. That way you are more in control. Nice it is in 15 mg incriments and very adjustable.

Yah that's about how I see things too... I am feeling some nutrient repartitioning and better recovered so I am hoping for some solid signs tonight.

The repartitioning is and odd feeling I get quite warm and energized. Oh and remember I said the libido settled down.. NOT!! :icon_lol: It's like wild animal lust, someone could get hurt..:boggled:

I have been eating very clean and should show be showing some signs of fat loss very soon. One thing I do not notice yet is loss from the waist. When I employ endo-amp during PCT this should be rectified.