AndroGel**Day 2 with Questions

[ratdog]

Hi,
My doc agreed to prescribe for me 5g of AndroGel per day. I am 44, 6'3", 248lbs, high BP, hypothyroid, under unending stress. My testosterone levels were between 248 and 278 each time. I had a very low PSA. So first day, I rubbed the gel on my fat hairy belly, it took about 10 min to dry, noticed a white residue on my skin. I seemed to notice I felt more energetic after 3 hours, able to get & maintain an erection that night without Viagra, which was a nice change. Next day, still noticed an improvement in my depression, took shower, shaved hairy belly and applied AndroGel to hot skin right after shower. Gel soaker right in, less than 2 minutes, no white residue on skin. I did not notice any change in the way I felt that day or night. Could I have killed the efectiveness of the gel by applying it to very warm skin? Anyone have any experiences with the gel they could share? Thanks

 

[RockyD]

First off..

you are not suppose to "rub" Androgel into the skin...just apply it and let it air-dry. (5 minutes)

Also...you are supposed to apply it on your shoulders/upper arms first then any excess put on the sides of your abdomen.

Now with Testim ...you would rub it into the skin until it disappears.

I've been using both types for over 2 years...but now I'm strictly using IM shots of Test Cyp.

Hope this helps and good luck.

 

[JanSz]

Transdermal testosterone raises DHT.

Unless you have very low DHT you will be better of on Testosterone injections.
------

Well back up.

First find out if you are primary (cant produce own T)
or
secondary (testicles are able but are not getting signal to make production)

-----------------

It is to you advantage to get testosterone (and whatever else) from your own testis.

Post you pre-TRT

TotalTestosterone
FSH
LH

would help if you also got

Prolactin
DHEA

Post everything you have got.

Name, value, units, range, name of laboratory.
.
.
.

 

[RoadBlocK]

you are not suppose to "rub" Androgel into the skin...just apply it and let it air-dry. (5 minutes)

Also...you are supposed to apply it on your shoulders/upper arms first then any excess put on the sides of your abdomen.

Just want to make that real clear, I cant recall, but think I read fat blocks gel absorbing and it is fine to shower before the gel, nice clean dry skin for the gel to stick to.

Also follow any advice from JanSz. It can help guide you to the correct path of treatment.


:cheers:

 

[ottomaddox]

I took transdermal test for over 14 months, and after that time I was so sick and tired of the skin irritations that I moved on to Test-Cyp and everything has been a 100% improvement.

 

[ratdog]

JanSz thanks here are my Labs

C-PEPTIDE=2.4 RANGE 0.8-3.5
FSH(SERUM)=7.2 RANGE 1.5-12.4
LUTEINIZING HORMONE=6.2 RANGE 1.7-8.6
PROLACTIN(SERUM)=7.1 RANGE 2.1-17.7
TESTOSTERONE(SERUM)=328 RANGE 350-890
TESTOSTERONE,FREE=86 PG/ML RANGE 47-244
AST=45 RANGE 15-46
ALT=59 RANGE 11-66
ALK.PHOS.=71 RANGE 38-126
BILIRUBIN,TOTAL=1.0 RANGE 0.2-1.3
BILIRUBIN,DIRECT=0.0 RANGE 0.0-0.4
TOTAL PROTEIN=7.4 RANGE 6.3-8.2
ALBUMIN=4.6 RANGE 3.5-5.0
HDL=37 RANGE 35-150
LDL=93.8 RANGE 0.0-99.0
CHOLESTEROL=185 RANGE 120-200
TRIGLYCERIDE=271 RANGE 50-200
The first time it was noticed my Test. was low was 7 years ago, started dating again after divorce and ED showed up. I got Test. injections then for 3 months, then stopped by my choice, Test. serum then was 278, btw, the bottle of AndroGel says to put product on upper arms OR stomach. I don't remember who said I was applying it wrong. I called mfg to confirm and see if one app. site was better than the other. Their rep. said either place was the same as long as it was clean and dry. Thanks for all the help

 

[JanSz]

C-PEPTIDE=2.4 RANGE 0.8-3.5
FSH(SERUM)=7.2 RANGE 1.5-12.4
LUTEINIZING HORMONE=6.2 RANGE 1.7-8.6
PROLACTIN(SERUM)=7.1 RANGE 2.1-17.7
TESTOSTERONE(SERUM)=328 RANGE 350-890
TESTOSTERONE,FREE=86 PG/ML RANGE 47-244
AST=45 RANGE 15-46
ALT=59 RANGE 11-66
ALK.PHOS.=71 RANGE 38-126
BILIRUBIN,TOTAL=1.0 RANGE 0.2-1.3
BILIRUBIN,DIRECT=0.0 RANGE 0.0-0.4
TOTAL PROTEIN=7.4 RANGE 6.3-8.2
ALBUMIN=4.6 RANGE 3.5-5.0
HDL=37 RANGE 35-150
LDL=93.8 RANGE 0.0-99.0
CHOLESTEROL=185 RANGE 120-200
TRIGLYCERIDE=271 RANGE 50-200
The first time it was noticed my Test. was low was 7 years ago, started dating again after divorce and ED showed up. I got Test. injections then for 3 months, then stopped by my choice, Test. serum then was 278, btw, the bottle of AndroGel says to put product on upper arms OR stomach. I don't remember who said I was applying it wrong. I called mfg to confirm and see if one app. site was better than the other. Their rep. said either place was the same as long as it was clean and dry. Thanks for all the help

Your FSH and LH are rather high but not in the top prange.

I do not see tests for
Estrodial (ultrasensitive)
SHBG

For example, if you have very high E2 and then control it with AI, that action alone may cause a raise in TotalT.

You said having a hypothyroid, controling that may help with your testosterone.

Adding HCG shots could induce your testis to produce a little more.

Aplying Androgel right away may deprive you from better solutions.
5grams/day is usually not enough, 10grams is usually better.
With all your hairs that may be a big problem.
If your current DHT level is normal, Androgel or any other transdermal will cause your DHT to go sky high.
Shots would be a better solution.

If you have a patience and agreable doctor you should do more testing first.

If you have a insurance, go for my long list, and test at Quest Diagnostics, blood drawn at Quest.
List is on my post #44
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/66268-jan-s-bloodtest-2.html

if not, get just these:

60 Estradiol, Ultrasensitive, LC/MS/MS (30289X)
61 Estradiol, Free, LC/MS/MS (36169X)
64 Estrogens, Fractionated, LC/MS/MS (36742X)
69 Testosterone, Free, Bio/Total (LC/MS/MS)
75 Dihydrotestosterone, Free, Serum (36168X)
38 T3 Free
41 T4,Free
43 reverse T3 (rT3)
44 TSH
45 Thyroid Peroxidase and Thyroglobulin Antibodies (7260X)
54 DHEA sulfate

Check if your doc would be able to order test at Genova Diagnostics. gdx.net
All it takes is his good will to open account with them.
I would be able to change some of you testing, less $$ better assesment.
.
.

 

[ratdog]

Thanks I left out a couple Labs

I am being treated for hypothyroidism, I take 75 mcg of synthroid per day. Also, what is HCG and what does it do.
Here are more Labs
free T4=1.07 range 0.78-2.19
tsh=1.430 range 0.490-4.670
glucose=106 range 75-110
thanks

 

[JanSz]

I am being treated for hypothyroidism, I take 75 mcg of synthroid per day. Also, what is HCG and what does it do.
Here are more Labs
free T4=1.07 range 0.78-2.19
tsh=1.430 range 0.490-4.670
glucose=106 range 75-110
thanks

You may not be getting proper attention on thyroid.

Synthroid =T4

It is expected that body will convert T4 -->T3
T3 is what body actually need.

Many/most are not able to do that.
Workaround then is to use ArmourThyroid(T4+T3)

There are other possiblilities.

One have to have his adrenals in order or properly supported,
in order to be able to accept Armour Thyroid.
============================================
Get thise two tests at Genova Diagnostics:

Adrenocortex Stress Profile
Genova Diagnostics

Comprehensive Thyroid Assessment
Genova Diagnostics
---------------------------------------------------------

That was a first choice.
If you are not able then get (best at Quest Diagnostics)


38 T3 Free
41 T4,Free
43 reverse T3 (rT3)
44 TSH
45 Thyroid Peroxidase and Thyroglobulin Antibodies (7260X)
54 DHEA sulfate
Cortisol (blood AM/PM and 4 points saliva)
==============================================

HCG
Human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG)

Hormone that would mimic LH and encourage testicle to produce.

For men whou are secondary, ie; good healthy testis but no signal, HCG would (possibly) be all that they need to resume Testosterone production.

 

[RockyD]

I don't remember who said I was applying it wrong.

That would be me....
Like myself and what others have stated...apply it to your upper shoulder area first.

Unless you are obese, this area is the best place for absorbtion. [hardly any fat deposits in this location]
Do NOT rub it in though. Apply it and let it dry.

Now..With Testim you need to rub it in.

You should really ask you doctor to let you do self-IM injections of Test-Cyp....a hell of a lot cheaper and after the first couple times it aint so bad.

I've been on TRT for the last 2+ years....I've done ANDROGEL/TESTIM/TEST-CYP IM inj.

Ask your doc if you can do the self IM TEST-CYP injections..a lot easier!

Just my lousy 0.02

 

[firefighter2032]

From Dr. Crisler's website:

Squeeze all of the gel from the foil packet, the tube, or the number of pumps if using the pump bottle, into a cupped palm. Gently press your two palms together. When you separate your hands, you will have very nearly half of the gel on each palm. Do not rub your hands together. Try to keep the gel on the palms, instead of getting between the fingers. Then simply cross your arms, wiping the gel over your shoulders and upper arms. Thus apply most of it across your upper arms and shoulders. Absolutely avoid the area where they draw the blood from. Finish off by wiping what is left down your FLANKS (sides of your abdomen—not the middle). Then thoroughly wash your hands. Once you have washed them, there is no worry whatsoever about accidental transferal to others, as there is none left on the surface to transfer. Studies have shown this, and also that merely putting on a T-shirt to cover the exposed areas will do the same for the rest of you. If you had to, you could shower in an hour or so, without appreciable loss of testosterone delivery, as the gel soaks into the skin, and the skin acts as the actual reservoir for dispensation of the drug. You wouldn’t want to do this all the time, but swimming or showering in a pinch can be done. It's still a good idea to take a quick shower before engaging in intimacy.

For maximum effect, apply the gel within 3 minutes of showering.

You want a delay of at least two hours after application before drawing labs.