Alcohol and anabolics and peds

[skinnybones]

You're

I am....?

 

[Chados]

I feel you on most of these points but if you don't follow your own instructions then why put so much gloom and doom on it. Why not, "Hey I drink occasionally and nothing has happened to me yet but I feel like an idiot for it, and I probably shouldn't if health were my main priority."

Much less offensive then grouping me, and others in as an idiot, because you feel you are one for your decisions. I am extremely knowledgeable and far from an idiot. I just use a different measuring stick for my risk assessment, and do not feel the risks I am taking are "Risky Business" Yeah I went there... You old enough to appreciate that reference?

Thing is you hear people talking about drinking on cycle like it is equal to playing Russian Roulette. It's not, those are 1 in 6 odds, not 1 in many million. Add knowing your urine is clear, and your poop is brown you have enough to go on to decide if a night of drinking is going to be a bad idea for your situation. FYI when liver ducts are getting blocked urine becomes darker and your stool becomes more pale.

Not sure where the fighting in the UFC part came from unless me mentioning having drinks while watching UFC with the boys. However they are both personal choices the motivation for them is not really in question.

I was saying don't be idiots and drink while on steroids or any medicin really. If someone gets offended by that i really feel they should rather have a look at themselves and think, I'm doing this to myself and I don't want to hurt my body when I'm trying to make my body better than before. I don't feel it's an obligation for me to say I do this or that and I survived. I don't like telling people that you will survive so you can do it. I want to tell people to not do something thats obviously not smart, saying you'll be fine on the internet where everyone comes out as doctors would be me playing with others health. I have a friend a telling me cocain is not that dangerous and maybe it's not one or two times but it's something that can easily kill you taking too much and I can't say where my limit Is and neither if I'll get addicted to it. What I do to myself is my responsibility and I got nobody to blame but myself, telling you that drinking a few beers is fine while you might even have liver damage that I don't know about is very irresponsible of me.


The liver is one thing that normally recovers fantastic but steroids and alcohol is not all about the liver.

We all know how easily you can convince any new guy here to dose a certain way or to run tren with anadrol first cycle, it's harder to convince them to be safe and not do anything at all.

 

[MrKleen73]

I was saying don't be idiots and drink while on steroids or any medicin really. If someone gets offended by that i really feel they should rather have a look at themselves and think, I'm doing this to myself and I don't want to hurt my body when I'm trying to make my body better than before. I don't feel it's an obligation for me to say I do this or that and I survived. I don't like telling people that you will survive so you can do it. I want to tell people to not do something thats obviously not smart, saying you'll be fine on the internet where everyone comes out as doctors would be me playing with others health. I have a friend a telling me cocain is not that dangerous and maybe it's not one or two times but it's something that can easily kill you taking too much and I can't say where my limit Is and neither if I'll get addicted to it. What I do to myself is my responsibility and I got nobody to blame but myself, telling you that drinking a few beers is fine while you might even have liver damage that I don't know about is very irresponsible of me.


The liver is one thing that normally recovers fantastic but steroids and alcohol is not all about the liver.

We all know how easily you can convince any new guy here to dose a certain way or to run tren with anadrol first cycle, it's harder to convince them to be safe and not do anything at all.

If someone gets offended by you calling them an idiot they should examine themselves to see why they are offended by someone saying something offensive toward them??? No, you calling others idiots is offensive to them regardless. We don't have to share the same view for you not to insult me or anyone else by calling them idiots... There really isn't any way to explain your way out of that.

Comparing drinking on cycle to cocaine? Really? Cocaine can kill you in 1 use, is highly addictive, and a much higher risk... Having drinks one night on a cycle is so much less likely to harm you that the comparison is ludicrous. Let's keep the analogies realistic here. You are comparing a very high risk situation to a very low risk situation and trying to draw parallels as if the likelihood was just as similar.

As far as it being an obligation to say you do this or that and survived, no you are correct it is not. However for you to maintain your integrity it is a requirement... Preaching what you do not practice, while not also saying by the way I don't believe in this strongly enough to adhere to myself shows a lack of integrity. We had to get multiple posts in before you came out and said you drink on cycle occasionally but you gave dire warnings about it and referred to anyone who does it as an idiot. You even mentioned it was hypocritical. When you are hypocritical about something you actually take away from the position you are trying to defend.

 

[Chados]

If someone gets offended by you calling them an idiot they should examine themselves to see why they are offended by someone saying something offensive toward them??? No, you calling others idiots is offensive to them regardless. We don't have to share the same view for you not to insult me or anyone else by calling them idiots... There really isn't any way to explain your way out of that.

Comparing drinking on cycle to cocaine? Really? Cocaine can kill you in 1 use, is highly addictive, and a much higher risk... Having drinks one night on a cycle is so much less likely to harm you that the comparison is ludicrous. Let's keep the analogies realistic here. You are comparing a very high risk situation to a very low risk situation and trying to draw parallels as if the likelihood was just as similar.

As far as it being an obligation to say you do this or that and survived, no you are correct it is not. However for you to maintain your integrity it is a requirement... Preaching what you do not practice, while not also saying by the way I don't believe in this strongly enough to adhere to myself shows a lack of integrity. We had to get multiple posts in before you came out and said you drink on cycle occasionally but you gave dire warnings about it and referred to anyone who does it as an idiot. You even mentioned it was hypocritical. When you are hypocritical about something you actually take away from the position you are trying to defend.

I really do not get how you get offended. I didn't attack you personally, I said don't be stupid people and do something that will hinder your gains and put you in more danger than you're already at with aas. Nobody does aas to get a rush, we do it cause we wanna build muscles faster and if we can't keep ourselves from drinking were being idiots in my opinion, cocaine was an example to how people tell others something is fine doing when it's really not. I absolutely don't agree with you, I don't hate you cause you drink but I don't wanna be one that tells other people you'll survive like I'm some doctor that has been scanning your body. Telling people you'll be fine doing something harmful is being careless about someone else's health and I don't want be that guy.

Let you and me be reckless but let other people decide instead of we telling them, hey you're gonna be fine.

 

[MrKleen73]

I really do not get how you get offended. I didn't attack you personally, I said don't be stupid people and do something that will hinder your gains and put you in more danger than you're already at with aas. Nobody does aas to get a rush, we do it cause we wanna build muscles faster and if we can't keep ourselves from drinking were being idiots in my opinion, cocaine was an example to how people tell others something is fine doing when it's really not. I absolutely don't agree with you, I don't hate you cause you drink but I don't wanna be one that tells other people you'll survive like I'm some doctor that has been scanning your body. Telling people you'll be fine doing something harmful is being careless about someone else's health and I don't want be that guy.

Let you and me be reckless but let other people decide instead of we telling them, hey you're gonna be fine.

Why do we go through this every time we have a discussion... you change your wording every damn time to make it less of the original statement... This is what you said.

There's a difference between abusing steroids and alcohol or taking a little or each. The fact is that it's quite hard to do it once or twice cause if your healthy your body will just likely recover. Same with sugar and other drugs. Just stop it, you're already playing with your health to do something good as building muscles and stamina. Don't be idiots and mix **** cause you can't stay away from them, cause maybe not the first or the tenth time but the fifteenth time your body could had enough cause were all different when it comes to how our body recovers. Some people smoke 80 years and some 10.

The bold... you see it right? You said people who do this are idiots. I do it... you do the math... Was it a personal attack on me, no it was directed at all people who choose to have a drink while on cycle. This is why I brought it up. It is offensive to be called an idiot no matter if personal or indirectly like this situation. Especially when the person calling others idiots doesn't even subscribe the the belief himself...

Who said anything about "Hey you are going to be fine?" I never once said that. I said that you can responsibly weigh the options and come out with your own educated decision based on risk assessment...

How does that in anyway say "You are going to be fine." Most everything I say in instances like this says something like assuming your liver is healthy, assuming your heart is healthy, assuming HPTA is healthy. I talk about likelihoods and real world experiences of millions of steroid users that have never had an issue. I actually gave them some legitimate information to think about so they can make an educated decision.

You telling them what you think they should hear even though you do not feel it is important enough to follow yourself is a problem. That type of hypocrisy actually weakens the stance that it shouldn't be done. Going to have people like "This guy over here calling others idiots for drinking on cycle actually drinks on cycle... obviously there is no merit to what he says...."

If you want to allow others to make their own decision then give them all of the info. The reality is that a few drinks during a cycle may not be recommended, but to call it dangerous would be a stretch... Now drinking heavily and regularly while on cycle, that is a problem and creates a MUCH HIGHER RISK LEVEL. I don't think anyone would argue that point. However when it comes to the health stuff, you even mentioned how well the liver recovers from this kind of thing and echoed a lot of my sentiments for your own self. However you don't want to share those same type of real world information that you have about it from your own experience to give them a view of the bigger picture?

Can we not actually look at the actual risk instead of demonizing the idea? Right now we are dealing with an idea that has been demonized and probably should have been way back when people didn't have an understanding of it. Now we do, and have a lot more knowledge of how things work, and how they do not. We also know ways too manage those situations better through supplementation, water manipulation and the like. It's not like back in the day when Johnny was running 100mg of Anadrol a day and drinking heavily every weekend without taking any liver supplements or increasing water intake because nobody knew any better. Yeah Johnny was going to run into problems... jaundice, maybe even liver failure or death. All excellent reasons to demonize doing it so that other Johnny's don't suffer the same fate.

Now we know more than we did back then. Now we do have the knowledge, and the supplements to manage these things... We also know that habitual drinking on steroids is unhealthy so Johnny knows better than to get drunk every weekend. Things have changed a bit and there is more information to consider when weighing your options.

The reality is that unless you have severe liver issues having an occasional drink on cycle especially a cycle with no orals is not likely to cause you any problems. Even with orals a drink or two here and there is not likely to be much of an issue either, especially if you are already taking care of your liver values.

I am not telling anyone to drink, or not to drink on cycle. Nor am I telling anyone they will be okay. I AM telling them an occasional drink is not as likely to cause a health issue as most alarmist imply. I am just talking about real world situations and likelihoods. Not the one off exceptions, anomalies, or singular horror stories people can dig up on the subject.

 

[Chados]

Why do we go through this every time we have a discussion... you change your wording every damn time to make it less of the original statement... This is what you said.



The bold... you see it right? You said people who do this are idiots. I do it... you do the math... Was it a personal attack on me, no it was directed at all people who choose to have a drink while on cycle. This is why I brought it up. It is offensive to be called an idiot no matter if personal or indirectly like this situation. Especially when the person calling others idiots doesn't even subscribe the the belief himself...

Who said anything about "Hey you are going to be fine?" I never once said that. I said that you can responsibly weigh the options and come out with your own educated decision based on risk assessment...

How does that in anyway say "You are going to be fine." Most everything I say in instances like this says something like assuming your liver is healthy, assuming your heart is healthy, assuming HPTA is healthy. I talk about likelihoods and real world experiences of millions of steroid users that have never had an issue. I actually gave them some legitimate information to think about so they can make an educated decision.

You telling them what you think they should hear even though you do not feel it is important enough to follow yourself is a problem. That type of hypocrisy actually weakens the stance that it shouldn't be done. Going to have people like "This guy over here calling others idiots for drinking on cycle actually drinks on cycle... obviously there is no merit to what he says...."

If you want to allow others to make their own decision then give them all of the info. The reality is that a few drinks during a cycle may not be recommended, but to call it dangerous would be a stretch... Now drinking heavily and regularly while on cycle, that is a problem and creates a MUCH HIGHER RISK LEVEL. I don't think anyone would argue that point. However when it comes to the health stuff, you even mentioned how well the liver recovers from this kind of thing and echoed a lot of my sentiments for your own self. However you don't want to share those same type of real world information that you have about it from your own experience to give them a view of the bigger picture?

Can we not actually look at the actual risk instead of demonizing the idea? Right now we are dealing with an idea that has been demonized and probably should have been way back when people didn't have an understanding of it. Now we do, and have a lot more knowledge of how things work, and how they do not. We also know ways too manage those situations better through supplementation, water manipulation and the like. It's not like back in the day when Johnny was running 100mg of Anadrol a day and drinking heavily every weekend without taking any liver supplements or increasing water intake because nobody knew any better. Yeah Johnny was going to run into problems... jaundice, maybe even liver failure or death. All excellent reasons to demonize doing it so that other Johnny's don't suffer the same fate.

Now we know more than we did back then. Now we do have the knowledge, and the supplements to manage these things... We also know that habitual drinking on steroids is unhealthy so Johnny knows better than to get drunk every weekend. Things have changed a bit and there is more information to consider when weighing your options.

The reality is that unless you have severe liver issues having an occasional drink on cycle especially a cycle with no orals is not likely to cause you any problems. Even with orals a drink or two here and there is not likely to be much of an issue either, especially if you are already taking care of your liver values.

I am not telling anyone to drink, or not to drink on cycle. Nor am I telling anyone they will be okay. I AM telling them an occasional drink is not as likely to cause a health issue as most alarmist imply. I am just talking about real world situations and likelihoods. Not the one off exceptions, anomalies, or singular horror stories people can dig up on the subject.

I haven't changed anything. I also never said that the liver wont recover. You can find countless times where I have been saying what you say on this forum. I use to say that every medicin we use almost have liver toxicity and should not be mixed with alcohol but what are the odds you're gonna die from it? You can probably drink and do steroids for years and years without having any problems. Alcoholics don't always run in to a bad liver since the liver is probably the best organ we have to recover. They go through heart diseases, kidney problems, brain problems , you name it.


Would you call youself an abuser of steroids ? Do you think you'll live until an average age or do you not care about that?

I am not using steroids all the time and I would not call myself an abuser, the odds of me having problems with drinking are low especially since I don't do much oral cycles. My blood pressure, my brain and heart can end up with problems id never see coming at this age though, genetics, bad luck, whatever you wanna call it. Steroids alone will cause different sides on people and it will kill some while some can go on their whole life.

The average steroid user probably runs a cycle once in their whole lifetime or maybe once or twice a year with very different types of compounds and dosages. It's impossible to generalise every user and say drinking and using steroids is not that dangerous. What if this boy at 20 pretending his 30 with his whole family having heart problems early in life? What if I sit here and tell him you'll be fine?

You are in a way defending drinking and using steroids cause of the fact that on paper most people will be fine. You have a 12 week test e cycle then why would you not stay away from alcohol these 12 weeks instead of increasing long term sides and decreasing gains and be hungover and skip a workout? If you're cruising your whole life I guess it's quite hard to stay away from alcohol but then I would expect you to be on a quite low dose of test and not 100mg of anadrol.

I'm not sure how you made drinking alcohol in to having one beer. I thought It would be quite easy to understand I wasn't talking about one single beer during football weekend.

 

[MrKleen73]

I haven't changed anything. I also never said that the liver wont recover. You can find countless times where I have been saying what you say on this forum. I use to say that every medicin we use almost have liver toxicity and should not be mixed with alcohol but what are the odds you're gonna die from it? You can probably drink and do steroids for years and years without having any problems. Alcoholics don't always run in to a bad liver since the liver is probably the best organ we have to recover. They go through heart diseases, kidney problems, brain problems , you name it.


Would you call youself an abuser of steroids ? Do you think you'll live until an average age or do you not care about that?

I am not using steroids all the time and I would not call myself an abuser, the odds of me having problems with drinking are low especially since I don't do much oral cycles. My blood pressure, my brain and heart can end up with problems id never see coming at this age though, genetics, bad luck, whatever you wanna call it. Steroids alone will cause different sides on people and it will kill some while some can go on their whole life.

The average steroid user probably runs a cycle once in their whole lifetime or maybe once or twice a year with very different types of compounds and dosages. It's impossible to generalise every user and say drinking and using steroids is not that dangerous. What if this boy at 20 pretending his 30 with his whole family having heart problems early in life? What if I sit here and tell him you'll be fine?

You are in a way defending drinking and using steroids cause of the fact that on paper most people will be fine. You have a 12 week test e cycle then why would you not stay away from alcohol these 12 weeks instead of increasing long term sides and decreasing gains and be hungover and skip a workout? If you're cruising your whole life I guess it's quite hard to stay away from alcohol but then I would expect you to be on a quite low dose of test and not 100mg of anadrol.

I'm not sure how you made drinking alcohol in to having one beer. I thought It would be quite easy to understand I wasn't talking about one single beer during football weekend.

Reread brother I agreed with you on the liver and said that you had even said how regenerative it was.

Me no I am not a steroid "abuser" whatever that means considering it is based on what others opinions of what you are doing is. That makes it a floating target. Some would say using them at all is abuse if you are not using them for a prescribed purpose. So in that aspect then I am. See what I mean... it's a floating target and based in relativity.

I do mild cycles and am very responsible about it AND I still have some drinks when I want to if the things are in check. I do regular blood work and know what is going on with my body. As far as health goes I can't imagine any reason why I wouldn't live until average age. I am healthier on cycle than most people who have never touched gear. My bloodwork is in good standing too. So barring cancer, which is a higher risk in my family I see no reason why I would not live into my 70's.

Also, no I don't really care if I live until my 70's... I love life but when it is over for me it is simply over so it won't matter to me how old I was. I have no control over it and avoiding some casual drinking here and there on cycle is not going to give me any more control or reduce risk enough to balance out the pleasure I take in the occasional indulgence... Life and priorities is about a balance and what is a balance to me may not balance out for you.

To my knowledge there has never been a death directly related to steroid use. Can you site me one? Lot's of stuff blamed on steroid use but show me where someone died directly of steroid abuse. If you know of one please share. Most of the PED users I know of that die are using diuretics, and or insulin...

You keep bringing up all of these genetic predispositions and other things like that. People already know their genetic predispositions when they make the decision to use gear... Also if a 20 year old lied and said he was older and chose to drink on cycle because I said it isn't as deadly as it is being made out to be if drinking within reason. I don't care, it isn't my problem, and may not even be a problem for him...

I honestly don't care how old the person is, why does it matter if he is 20 or 30... It doesn't. What matters is does the 20 year old realize he is possibly creating a situation where he may damage his HPTA. Other than that the side effects are pretty much equal regardless of age so being aware of that and other possible side effects means he can make his own decision based on his priorities.

If he does the same with drinking then again it has zero effect on me. I gave information and my opinion. They made their own decisions. I am in no way responsible for anyone making their own decision. Especially for someone who falsified information they gave me that shaped the information I provided...

I wasn't just talking about one beer. I was talking about occasional drink, or drinks. I also said on oil only cycles I wasn't to worried about it at all. If I wanted to have a few drinks on the weekend or with my boys while watching UFC I would. Doesn't happen often but if and when that situation arises I base my decisions on how I am doing. Do I feel well, is my urine pretty clear, is my stool a normal color of brown, have I been drinking enough water. Then I drink a glass of water for every drink I have... Now if you are talking about people with a drinking problem then the point is moot. The problem is the drinking problem and not the gear...

As far as why would someone drink on cycle if they are on cycle to build a better body? Why do you have ice cream or sweets sometimes? We know they aren't healthy foods. Because not everything is about building a better body. Even on cycle. Life is about balancing priorities, if the cycle is your #1 priority in life then you have a very unbalanced life. If you are a high level competitor okay I see why tryng to get 100% of what you can out of it. As a recreational user I just don't see people applying the same intent, and wouldn't expect them too.

Why do people do roids? It is a shortcut that makes muscle building easier and faster while also improving performance. Those characteristics can be applied in many ways. It still works that way if you do not do everything 100% efficiently... Hell that is the allure of it for common folk right? So you mean I can train less often, have some sweets and maybe even a few drinks while on cycle and still surpass the natty guy following his training and nutrition to a T. Hell yeah, sign me up!!!!

Not everything is about maximizing growth. It is kind of the 80/20 or 90/10 philosophy with it for most people. Often it is just about getting more with less sacrifice... I would have to be honest and say my opinion is that 90% of the people using gear follow this principle in some way even though the idealistic in the group say otherwise... I am in no way discounting the effort that PED users put into it. We all get back what we put into it and then some. Most of us do train harder than others, and put plenty of work in but nowhere near as many are dogmatic about trying to make the cycle as efficient as possible. Me, I am happy with having a more balanced approach that works with my goals and priorities. So I am cool with getting 90% out of a cycle because that 90% is still equal to 150-300% of the gains I would have made natty being very strict and training much more often to stimulate protein synthesis...

Everyone's balance is going to be different. It's not all black and white, and trust me there are far more than 50 Shade of Gray... damn again with the cheesy movie references...

 

[Chados]

I do agree with you that having a few beers and steroids in moderation is probably healthier than abusing one. I don't think there are any knowledge wether how dangerous steroids really are but I'm sure they arent close to being on the top of the list. I think there's a huge different between crusing on low dose test and do a tren anadrol cycle or just tren in general and mix with alcohol. Thing that worries me is not wether you with some experience will be getting good results and keep yourself healthy since you just like me have come to the conclusion that steroids are not the answer but hard work and diet. Problem is that there are far too many people coming here with no experience wanting to run test at 1000mg or adding tren first cycle, having a bad pct, no ai or caber and mix an already high dose of gear and with possible risk of high blood pressure etc adding alcohol. Like I said i have been drinking but I strongly advice people who go for a 12 week cycle to focus these 12 weeks on their health and their goals to achieve what the steroids are there to do rather than harming themselves more, being hungover and missing out on two days of lifting. I'm sure you are in a position where 2 lbs of muscle is a lot for you while the new guys might wanna go for 10, I'm also sure your diet and training and motivation is far beyond the average guy.

I don't blame myself for others choices but I don't want to make them go for something I personally don't agree with.

 

[MrKleen73]

I do agree with you that having a few beers and steroids in moderation is probably healthier than abusing one. I don't think there are any knowledge wether how dangerous steroids really are but I'm sure they arent close to being on the top of the list. I think there's a huge different between crusing on low dose test and do a tren anadrol cycle or just tren in general and mix with alcohol. Thing that worries me is not wether you with some experience will be getting good results and keep yourself healthy since you just like me have come to the conclusion that steroids are not the answer but hard work and diet. Problem is that there are far too many people coming here with no experience wanting to run test at 1000mg or adding tren first cycle, having a bad pct, no ai or caber and mix an already high dose of gear and with possible risk of high blood pressure etc adding alcohol. Like I said i have been drinking but I strongly advice people who go for a 12 week cycle to focus these 12 weeks on their health and their goals to achieve what the steroids are there to do rather than harming themselves more, being hungover and missing out on two days of lifting. I'm sure you are in a position where 2 lbs of muscle is a lot for you while the new guys might wanna go for 10, I'm also sure your diet and training and motivation is far beyond the average guy.

I don't blame myself for others choices but I don't want to make them go for something I personally don't agree with.

Makes sense to me, but I still feel that total disclosure and honesty about the situation is required for people to make an educated decision. I feel like this last post of yours does that quite well while still saying not everyone knows enough to make this decision, but those who do can make a responsible decision based on their health profile and priorities.

I also hope that no one is using me as their only source of opinion or information in which to base decisions on. If they are then they should stop unless they are paying me to do so and giving me their family history and what not.

 

[Chados]

Makes sense to me, but I still feel that total disclosure and honesty about the situation is required for people to make an educated decision. I feel like this last post of yours does that quite well while still saying not everyone knows enough to make this decision, but those who do can make a responsible decision based on their health profile and priorities.

I also hope that no one is using me as their only source of opinion or information in which to base decisions on. If they are then they should stop unless they are paying me to do so and giving me their family history and what not.

I've always debated wether the most toxic steroids like tren and anadrol at low dose is more toxic than primo and var at high dose, are the benefits still there taking these toxic ones at such low dose? That's like comparing having one beer and tren or ten beers with primo. It's impossible to say when it gets too toxic and I believe everyone can tolerate different amounts. I just think especially for young people not really able to make good decisions in life and who doesnt know wether steroids are for them ( again experience) should think twice with drinking on steroids and get the most out of the cycle. At some point you realize that more steroids aren't always better and you'll get over that teenage mentality having to drink heavily. This is when you can make your own decision and know what all compounds does to your body.

 

[MrKleen73]

I've always debated wether the most toxic steroids like tren and anadrol at low dose is more toxic than primo and var at high dose, are the benefits still there taking these toxic ones at such low dose? That's like comparing having one beer and tren or ten beers with primo. It's impossible to say when it gets too toxic and I believe everyone can tolerate different amounts. I just think especially for young people not really able to make good decisions in life and who doesnt know wether steroids are for them ( again experience) should think twice with drinking on steroids and get the most out of the cycle. At some point you realize that more steroids aren't always better and you'll get over that teenage mentality having to drink heavily. This is when you can make your own decision and know what all compounds does to your body.

Agreed, maturity is a major factor in decision making ability. No way of knowing what the maturity level of someone reading my comments may be. However I choose not to slow down the class so that the slowest person can keep up either. My opinion doesn't really change based on someones experience level, but the execution of the decision they make. If they chose to follow my philosophy then they would be drinking only occasionally, no major benders, and would only do so if everything else was in check. If they follow all of that I still feel that the safety level is the same regardless of it it is the first cycle or the 10th. Experience just gives them a better gauge of what to expect.

 

[amartich]

These post replies are awesome

How about a few occasional drinks while you are using SARMS? Specifically LGD/MK/OSTA.

Thanks,

AP

 

[YoungThor]

Nature Boy Ric Flair drank ten beers and five mixed drinks a night for 45 straight years until his kidneys finally started to fail. I don’t know exactly what steroids he used, but I’m sure he was at least on testosterone for that entire time. But you’d be a very unwise man to follow in Ric Flair’s footsteps.

 

[Matthersby]

His death had zero to do with steroids or alcohol. Just as steroids nor alcohol have much at all, ever, to do with kidney failure. Now, if we are talking about hypertension-induced kidney failure from steroid use, or dehydration-induced kidney failure, then, maybe it’s as likely as getting struck by lightning.

 

[christ83189]

I just dont drink at all. If you're on a cycle of methyls or oral AAS then i dont see why you wouldnt be able to stay away from alcohol until after your cycle. Its not that hard. If you're the kind of person that literally can't stay away from it (alcoholic), then you shouldnt be taking steroids. But thats just me. I dont see any reason to take extra risks

 

[YoungThor]

His death had zero to do with steroids or alcohol. Just as steroids nor alcohol have much at all, ever, to do with kidney failure. Now, if we are talking about hypertension-induced kidney failure from steroid use, or dehydration-induced kidney failure, then, maybe it’s as likely as getting struck by lightning.

He’s still alive. It was likely the alcohol alone that almost killed him. I’m coming to terms with the fact that as long as you do plenty of research before using anabolics, and you don’t abuse the shiit out of them, then most will be safer than otc products that could be bought at rite aid. And a little bit booze on top isn’t gonna kill you.

 

[YoungThor]

I just dont drink at all. If you're on a cycle of methyls or oral AAS then i dont see why you wouldnt be able to stay away from alcohol until after your cycle. Its not that hard. If you're the kind of person that literally can't stay away from it (alcoholic), then you shouldnt be taking steroids. But thats just me. I dont see any reason to take extra risks

It’s commendable that you have that willpower, but not everyone is as stoic. There’s probably more people who take orals and still enjoy tipping back a few cold ones than guys who totally abstain from booze while on cycle. And how often do steroid users need a liver transplant? In all the fields where we know everyone is juiced (bodybuilding, Hollywood action stars, 1990’s baseball, pro wrestlers ect.) how many of those guys ended up getting cirrhosis? Still, if you want to minimize serious health risks while on cycle, it’s best to stay away from alcohol.

 

[MrKleen73]

I just dont drink at all. If you're on a cycle of methyls or oral AAS then i dont see why you wouldnt be able to stay away from alcohol until after your cycle. Its not that hard. If you're the kind of person that literally can't stay away from it (alcoholic), then you shouldnt be taking steroids. But thats just me. I dont see any reason to take extra risks

You are right that it is not that hard, but it is also not that important to abstain completely. If you are keeping things in check going out and having a few drinks with your buddies a couple times during a cycle is about as risky as driving 5-10 miles an hour over the speed limit.

Me I tend to not take my orals on a day I know I am going to drink a few drinks. If I drank more than intended I sometimes won't start again until the day after to let any inflammation clear. For example I knew I was going to have drinks at the Papa Roach concert, and had 3 double whisky on the rocks. Then I didn't take them the day after either. It's just an extra step for my own peace of mind.

The reality is it is people who are abusing both gear and alcohol that have the issues. Well outside of those who just do not have healthy livers for some other reason.

It’s commendable that you have that willpower, but not everyone is as stoic. There’s probably more people who take orals and still enjoy tipping back a few cold ones than guys who totally abstain from booze while on cycle. And how often do steroid users need a liver transplant? In all the fields where we know everyone is juiced (bodybuilding, Hollywood action stars, 1990’s baseball, pro wrestlers ect.) how many of those guys ended up getting cirrhosis? Still, if you want to minimize serious health risks while on cycle, it’s best to stay away from alcohol.

Oh it is best to stay away from alcohol for sure even if you aren't on gear.

People are different and are comfortable with different levels of risk. So people are all over with this debate. Me like I said above, it is about as risky as driving 5-10 mile per hour over the speed limit when done occasionally, or often but in moderation like a glass of wine a night.

 

[christ83189]

You are right that it is not that hard, but it is also not that important to abstain completely. If you are keeping things in check going out and having a few drinks with your buddies a couple times during a cycle is about as risky as driving 5-10 miles an hour over the speed limit.

Me I tend to not take my orals on a day I know I am going to drink a few drinks. If I drank more than intended I sometimes won't start again until the day after to let any inflammation clear. For example I knew I was going to have drinks at the Papa Roach concert, and had 3 double whisky on the rocks. Then I didn't take them the day after either. It's just an extra step for my own peace of mind.

The reality is it is people who are abusing both gear and alcohol that have the issues. Well outside of those who just do not have healthy livers for some other reason.



Oh it is best to stay away from alcohol for sure even if you aren't on gear.

People are different and are comfortable with different levels of risk. So people are all over with this debate. Me like I said above, it is about as risky as driving 5-10 mile per hour over the speed limit when done occasionally, or often but in moderation like a glass of wine a night.

If you're like me it is very important to abstain completely. Alcohol ruins lives just as much as drugs do, if not even more so. And the fact that it is completely legal and easy to attain makes it that much worse. I have had a very bad drug/alcohol problem in the past. I havent drank since 2013 vut i still know that drinking at all is a bad thing for me so i just dont do it. The fact that im on steroids just makes for extra incentive to stay away. Especially considering ive had several close family members die from cirrhosis of the liver

 

[RickyBlobby]

As said, certain compounds are harsher than others. TRT dose Testosterone, I would drink as much as I wanted. Superdrol, would skip alcohol altogether. If you ae getting signs of liver strain and you are juicing and drinking,, you should back off one or the other.

 

[MrKleen73]

If you're like me it is very important to abstain completely. Alcohol ruins lives just as much as drugs do, if not even more so. And the fact that it is completely legal and easy to attain makes it that much worse. I have had a very bad drug/alcohol problem in the past. I havent drank since 2013 vut i still know that drinking at all is a bad thing for me so i just dont do it. The fact that im on steroids just makes for extra incentive to stay away. Especially considering ive had several close family members die from cirrhosis of the liver

Ah then I commend you for recognizing that about yourself and abstaining. Self awareness is an important thing.

As said, certain compounds are harsher than others. TRT dose Testosterone, I would drink as much as I wanted. Superdrol, would skip alcohol altogether. If you ae getting signs of liver strain and you are juicing and drinking,, you should back off one or the other.

This is almost too common sense to be aloud... LOL