Activate Xtreme vs. Diesel Test Hardcore

[Sldge]

Maca:
Effect of Lepidium meyenii (Maca), a root with aphrodisiac and fertility-enhancing properties, on serum reproductive hormone levels in adult healthy men.
Gonzales GF, Córdova A, Vega K, Chung A, Villena A, Góñez C.
Instituto de Investigaciones de la Altura, and Department of Biological and Physiological Sciences (Faculty of Sciences and Philosophy), Universidad Peruana Cayetano Heredia, PO 1843, Lima, Peru.

Lepidium meyenii (Maca) is a Peruvian hypocotyl that grows exclusively between 4000 and 4500 m in the central Andes. Maca is traditionally employed in the Andean region for its supposed aphrodisiac and/or fertility-enhancing properties. This study was a 12-week double-blind, placebo-controlled, randomized, parallel trial in which active treatment with different doses of Maca Gelatinizada was compared with a placebo. The study aimed to test the hypothesis that Maca has no effect on serum reproductive hormone levels in apparently healthy men when administered in doses used for aphrodisiac and/or fertility-enhancing properties. Men aged between 21 and 56 Years received 1500 mg or 3000 mg Maca. Serum levels of luteinizing hormone, follicle-stimulating hormone, prolactin, 17-alpha hydroxyprogesterone, testosterone and 17-beta estradiol were measured before and at 2, 4, 8 and 12 weeks of treatment with placebo or Maca (1.5 g or 3.0 g per day). Data showed that compared with placebo Maca had no effect on any of the hormones studied nor did the hormones show any changes over time. Multiple regression analysis showed that serum testosterone levels were not affected by treatment with Maca at any of the times studied (P, not significant). In conclusion, treatment with Maca does not affect serum reproductive hormone levels.PMID: 12525260 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

The in vitro biological activity of Lepidium meyenii extracts.
Valentová K, Buckiová D, Kren V, Peknicová J, Ulrichová J, Simánek V.

Institute of Medical Chemistry and Biochemistry, Faculty of Medicine, Palacký University, Olomouc. [email protected]
The biological activity of methanolic and aqueous extracts from dehydrated hypocotyls of Lepidium meyenii (Brassicaceae, vernacular name "maca"), was studied on rat hepatocytes and human breast cancer MCF-7 cells. The extracts did not exhibit cytotoxicity in hepatocyte primary cultures up to 10 mg/ml as measured by the MTT viability test, and lactate dehydrogenase (LDH) and aspartate aminotransferase (AST) leakage. Moreover, after 72 h, extracts inhibited LDH and AST leakage from the hepatocytes. When hepatocytes were intoxicated by t-butyl hydroperoxide, neither extract prevented oxidative damage. Both extracts showed weak antioxidant activity in the DPPH radical scavenging test with IC(50) values of 3.46 +/- 0.16 and 0.71 +/- 0.10 mg/ml, for aqueous and methanolic extracts, respectively. Thus, the observed effect on spontaneous enzyme leakage is probably mediated through mechanisms other than antioxidant activity. Both methanolic and aqueous extracts have shown estrogenic activity comparable with that of silymarin in MCF-7 cell line. Maca estrogenicity was exhibited in the range from 100 to 200 mug of extract per ml. The findings in the present study show that maca does not display in vitro hepatotoxicity. In contrast, a slight cytoprotective effect, probably not mediated by antioxidant capacity, was noted. Maca extracts exhibited estrogenic activity comparably to the effect of silymarin in MCF-7 cells.
Effect of ethanol extract of Lepidium meyenii Walp. on osteoporosis in ovariectomized rat.

Zhang Y, Yu L, Ao M, Jin W.
School of Life Science & Technology, Huazhong University of Science & Technology, 430074 Wuhan, PR China.
Maca (Lepidium meyenii Walp.) is a cruciferous plant from the Andes of Peru. The root of Maca is traditionally employed for its supposed properties in aphrodisiacs and improving fertility, it also has been widely used to help alleviate the symptoms of menopause. The purpose of this study was to evaluate the effect of ethanol extract of Maca on postmenopausal osteoporosis in ovariectomized rats. Female Sprague-Dawley rats were divided into four groups: Sham-operated and ovariectomized groups were fed with equivolume of distilled water, and the remaining ovariectomized groups were orally administrated with ethanol extract of Maca at 0.096 and 0.24 g/kg for 28 weeks. The findings derived from the basis of bone mineral density, biomechanical, biochemical and histopathological parameters indicated that higher dose of ethanol extract of Maca was effective in the prevention of estrogen deficient bone loss.

Lepidium meyenii (Maca) does not exert direct androgenic activities.
Bogani P, Simonini F, Iriti M, Rossoni M, Faoro F, Poletti A, Visioli F.
Department of Pharmacological Sciences, University of Milan, Via Balzaretti 9, 20133 Milan, Italy.
Maca is the edible root of the Peruvian plant Lepidum meyenii, traditionally employed for its purported aphrodisiac and fertility-enhancing properties. This study aimed at testing the hypothesis that Maca contains testosterone-like compounds, able to bind the human androgen receptor and promote transcription pathways regulated by steroid hormone signaling. Maca extracts (obtained with different solvents: methanol, ethanol, hexane and chloroform) are not able to regulate GRE (glucocorticoid response element) activation. Further experiments are needed to assess which compound, of the several Maca's components, is responsible of the observed in vivo effects.

In short, Maca does nothing for testosterone production or enhancement but is good for increasing sperm count.

Lepidium meyenii (Maca) improved semen parameters in adult men.
Gonzales GF, Cordova A, Gonzales C, Chung A, Vega K, Villena A.
Department of Physiological Sciences, Faculty of Sciences and Philosophy and Instituto de Investigaciones de la Altura, Universidad Peruana Cayetano Heredia, Lima, Peru. [email protected]
AIM: The present study was designed to determine the effect of a 4-month oral treatment with tablets of Lepidium meyenii (Maca) on seminal analysis in nine adult normal men aged 24-44 years old. METHODS: Nine men received tablets of Maca (1500 or 3000 mg/day) for 4 months. Seminal analysis was performed according to guidelines of the World Health Organization (WHO). Serum luteinizing hormone (LH), follicle stimulating hormone (FSH), prolactin (PRL), testosterone (T) and estradiol (E2) were measured before and after treatment. RESULTS: Treatment with Maca resulted in increased seminal volume, sperm count per ejaculum, motile sperm count, and sperm motility. Serum hormone levels were not modified with Maca treatment. Increase of sperm count was not related to dose of Maca. CONCLUSION: Maca improved sperm production and sperm motility by mechanisms not related to LH, FSH, PRL, T and E2.

 

[Sldge]

"I have not come across any published studies that prove this point, nor have I come across any studies published in the medical literature regarding the effectiveness of avena sativa as a sex booster. However, some anecdotal evidence from users indicates avena sativa to be a mild and gentle sexual enhancer, not as potent as tribulus terrestris, tongkat ali, horny goat weed, and other sex herbs. Avena sativa therefore may be a good herb to use in combination with stronger aphrodisiac herbs. “Ray Sahelian, M.D.”
========================================

I can’t find a single study that shows that Avena will increase free testosterone, testosterone or LH in men. However it seems to be good as a sex enhancer / aphrodisiac.

 

[DAdams91982]

"I have not come across any published studies that prove this point, nor have I come across any studies published in the medical literature regarding the effectiveness of avena sativa as a sex booster. However, some anecdotal evidence from users indicates avena sativa to be a mild and gentle sexual enhancer, not as potent as tribulus terrestris, tongkat ali, horny goat weed, and other sex herbs. Avena sativa therefore may be a good herb to use in combination with stronger aphrodisiac herbs. “Ray Sahelian, M.D.”
========================================

I can’t find a single study that shows that Avena will increase free testosterone, testosterone or LH in men. However it seems to be good as a sex enhancer / aphrodisiac.

Like I said before... GOOD TO HAVE YOU BACK. When can we expect the new methyl?

Adams

 

[Sldge]

Dont try to point out the fact that DTH is effective for libido and contains tribulus to try to take away from its effects on LMM, training intensity, strength, power, recovery, mental focus, endurance, NO enhancement, HTPA recovery, mood elevation.....on and on.

Then post the SCIENCE Chuck.

Ive posted the science which completely backs my position.

 

[Sldge]

Like I said before... GOOD TO HAVE YOU BACK. When can we expect the new methyl?

Adams

HAHAHA, its good to be back. I had no intention of doing any of this but if Chuck wants to continue to troll my threads and do what he can to try to bash ACTX then he should be prepared for the same.

All the science to support ACTX are quoted in its write up, posted on my website and this one. I can stand by the science and back up the use for everyone of the compounds in my formula.

The new methyl...wouldnt that be great. Ill give one for someone else to do in my place. This would be a great compound that Ive always wanted to make.
11OH-17a-methyl-17b-hydroxy-1,4-androstadien-3-one

 

[Sldge]

http://forum.body[/url] building.com /showthread.php?t=612113

there you go..

Here is the working thread:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=612113

It shows blood work from DT in 2005. Is that the same formula as DTH or are you just posting old bloodwork on a product you no longer sell?

 

[DAdams91982]

HAHAHA, its good to be back. I had no intention of doing any of this but if Chuck wants to continue to troll my threads and do what he can to try to bash ACTX then he should be prepared for the same.

All the science to support ACTX are quoted in its write up, posted on my website and this one. I can stand by the science and back up the use for everyone of the compounds in my formula.

The new methyl...wouldnt that be great. Ill give one for someone else to do in my place. This would be a great compound that Ive always wanted to make.
11OH-17a-methyl-17b-hydroxy-1,4-androstadien-3-one

That is why I buy DS pretty avidly. You have always been candid with your information, and upfront about what something will and will not do.

I wish I could take and do something with it... damn lacking chemistry. I'll trade you though, that, for my computer networking skills.

So how many products are going on that DS isnt telling us about yet?

Adams

 

[Sldge]

That is why I buy DS pretty avidly. You have always been candid with your information, and upfront about what something will and will not do.

I wish I could take and do something with it... damn lacking chemistry. I'll trade you though, that, for my computer networking skills.

So how many products are going on that DS isnt telling us about yet?

Adams

There are atleast 3. I dont know if they will all get out this year or not but Im trying.

 

[nunes]

I was the first person to introduce Divanil to the bodybuilding industry. You use it because of the work I did. No one had a high extract of Divanil until I spent the time and money having it developed. You have not released a single innovative compound. You formulate products based on other people work and claim it as your own. There is nothing innovate about the compounds used in DTH or that combination of compounds.

There is no need to go back and forth because you have no information to show why the compounds used in your formula would be good for mimicking test, increasing test or free test beyond the use of long jack.

I agree with you in everything, I never tried actvx(I have one here to start a cycle) but the first activate was fantastic when I stacked with 6-oxo, wonderful product.
By the way what do you think of the 6,7-divanil in opposition of 3,4-divanil?

As for tribulus I believe that companies still put it in test boosters because it still sells , only a few know that there were made tests with tribulus and the results were the ones you posted, same thing with zma...

 

[Sldge]

I agree with you in everything, I never tried actvx(I have one here to start a cycle) but the first activate was fantastic when I stacked with 6-oxo, wonderful product.
By the way what do you think of the 6,7-divanil in opposition of 3,4-divanil?

As for tribulus I believe that companies still put it in test boosters because it still sells , only a few know that there were made tests with tribulus and the results were the ones you posted, same thing with zma...

Thanks. Although I havent used the new version with 6OXO yet a lot of guys have and did very well. I dont think you need an AI with it but it does work well.

I cant find any studies or research to show that a 6,7-divanil would even exist let alone work. Not saying there may not be info for it but with all my searches I come up empty handed.

I agree with you 100%. I think companies still use it because they dont really care if they use a compound that works or not and most people have no idea that it doesnt work.

 

[machinehead]

Alot of research and development goes with DS

Nope, reading research done by others doesn't count.

How many supplement companies have research work done and published in peer-reviewed journals?

 

[DAdams91982]

Nope, reading research done by others doesn't count.

How many supplement companies have research work done and published in peer-reviewed journals?

REALLY? Gathering data for a disseration is NOT doing research huh? or even a RESEARCH paper for that matter.

News to me, and pretty much EVERYONE here.

PLUS, if you READ some of their history, blood work is done, is that NOT researching their product? Proving it does what they say it does.

Adams

 

[machinehead]

REALLY? Gathering data for a disseration is NOT doing research huh? or even a RESEARCH paper for that matter.

News to me, and pretty much EVERYONE here.

PLUS, if you READ some of their history, blood work is done, is that NOT researching their product? Proving it does what they say it does.

Adams

Gathering data is just that, gathering data.

I don't care about about their [or anyone else's history], and aplha and beta testing is just that, testing.

Bloodwork doesn't prove anything. Experiments don't prove anything. Statistical significance is not a proof.

Yet, it doesn't mean a product doesn't work as advertised or it doesn't work well.

Anyway, nothing will come out of this thread. Both products have worked for many, both have bloodwork posted. There isn't and there can be no proof that either is better.

 

[nni]

Gathering data is just that, gathering data.

I don't care about about their [or anyone else's history], and aplha and beta testing is just that, testing.

Bloodwork doesn't prove anything. Experiments don't prove anything. Statistical significance is not a proof.

Yet, it doesn't mean a product doesn't work as advertised or it doesn't work well.

Anyway, nothing will come out of this thread. Both products have worked for many, both have bloodwork posted. There isn't and there can be no proof that either is better.

so bloodwork, and studies dont prove anything, so what does then? word of mouth? just curious, seriously.

 

[DAdams91982]

Gathering data is just that, gathering data.

I don't care about about their [or anyone else's history], and aplha and beta testing is just that, testing.

Bloodwork doesn't prove anything. Experiments don't prove anything. Statistical significance is not a proof.

Yet, it doesn't mean a product doesn't work as advertised or it doesn't work well.

Anyway, nothing will come out of this thread. Both products have worked for many, both have bloodwork posted. There isn't and there can be no proof that either is better.

Im confused, because alot of research out their is based just on blood work, experiments, and statistics.

What makes it research? What makes it credible?

Adams

 

[machinehead]

Im confused, because alot of research out their is based just on blood work, experiments, and statistics.

What makes it research? What makes it credible?

Adams

Let's leave the 'research' out for a while.

A good experiment involves a careful selection of subjects, assignment of treatments, measurements, interpretation of results etc. It all starts with the assumption that 'Substance A does not work'. Based on the statistical results, you could either reject that assumption or fail to reject it. Because it is statistics and nothing is ever certain, however small the possibility of making an error is, you can't just conclude "I proved A works" or "I proved A doesn't work".

If you failed to reject that assumptions, you can say just that. You could conclude that A either works of it doesn't, you just don't have enough evidence based on the experiments results.

If there is strong enough evidence to reject the assumption, you say that you rejected it [at a certain high level of statistical significance]. The possibility of making a mistake is very small, but you cannot ever say you proved that A works. You just found enough evidence that it did not not work in your experiment but you haven't proven anything.

Then you send this for a review by a group of people who are in the same field and if they are happy of how the experiment was conducted, they publish it in the journal they are associated with. This is one way it is recognized.


Anyway, they could do an experiment with product A, B and placebo and find that product A works better. Then 10 people would buy A and B and say B worked better for them. It was a good experiment, what went wrong? Well, experimental design is inherently flawed since it's dealing with human subjects and we all know how much variability in response to supplements there is from our own experience and from reading the boards.

At the end of the day you have to find out what works for you.

 

[Sldge]

Let's leave the 'research' out for a while.

A good experiment involves a careful selection of subjects, assignment of treatments, measurements, interpretation of results etc. It all starts with the assumption that 'Substance A does not work'. Based on the statistical results, you could either reject that assumption or fail to reject it. Because it is statistics and nothing is ever certain, however small the possibility of making an error is, you can't just conclude "I proved A works" or "I proved A doesn't work".

If you failed to reject that assumptions, you can say just that. You could conclude that A either works of it doesn't, you just don't have enough evidence based on the experiments results.

If there is strong enough evidence to reject the assumption, you say that you rejected it [at a certain high level of statistical significance]. The possibility of making a mistake is very small, but you cannot ever say you proved that A works. You just found enough evidence that it did not not work in your experiment but you haven't proven anything.

Then you send this for a review by a group of people who are in the same field and if they are happy of how the experiment was conducted, they publish it in the journal they are associated with. This is one way it is recognized.


Anyway, they could do an experiment with product A, B and placebo and find that product A works better. Then 10 people would buy A and B and say B worked better for them. It was a good experiment, what went wrong? Well, experimental design is inherently flawed since it's dealing with human subjects and we all know how much variability in response to supplements there is from our own experience and from reading the boards.

At the end of the day you have to find out what works for you.

You definitely need to find out what works for you but when deciding which products to try out, you feel people should just close their eyes and pick or go with companies who base there products on science? Whether you believe in the research or not you have to decide at some point to try something over something else. If its me, Ill take science over advertising or just randomly picking.

At no point in this thread have I said Chucks product is not a good product. Im sure its a very good product and Im sure plenty of people have gotten results with it. But based on the science (which I base my choices on) it wouldnt be the best choice as a test booster.

 

[AdelV]

You definitely need to find out what works for you but when deciding which products to try out, you feel people should just close their eyes and pick or go with companies who base there products on science? Whether you believe in the research or not you have to decide at some point to try something over something else. If its me, Ill take science over advertising or just randomly picking.

At no point in this thread have I said Chucks product is not a good product. Im sure its a very good product and Im sure plenty of people have gotten results with it. But based on the science (which I base my choices on) it wouldnt be the best choice as a test booster.

I plan on using both.. currently going to try DTH.. but I have a bottle of AE here also..

Im not expecting much from either, as test boosters barely work for me, I already have high test and extremely good hormones!!

So Ill be curious to see what results I get from either or if any muscle gain or any feeling.

My biggest issues is, Im never aggressive, Im in the gym and Im yawning and tired...so DTH may help with that, but im interested in AE because of the free test raise... as I have 24/30 total test... any free test I free up, should give me some pretty interesting gains or feedback!

Either way, both product's are good.... so it doesnt matter...

Both are good companies, let's just leave it at that?

 

[Chuck Diesel]

By the way that link doesnt work.

that link does work if u take the spaces out capt. obvious.....and btw what's with all the maca post? diesel test was the sht before it even had maca. I think its hella funny that you think I'm really going to break down why every ingredient in dth was included.

 

[DAdams91982]

that link does work if u take the spaces out capt. obvious.....and btw what's with all the maca post? diesel test was the sht before it even had maca. I think its hella funny that you think I'm really going to break down why every ingredient in dth was included.

Do you not have a write up on this? A write up articulating why you put each in there. Just curious why you chose some of the ingredients in there. Some of them have turned up to be pretty useless.

I would like to read the science and reasoning behind your flagship product. I would like to see DTH defended. See your side of the story.

Adams

 

[Chuck Diesel]

Not to be a dlck chuck. But to tell designer they are not innovative for coming out with 3,4Div is just down right fvcking retarded. That compound was a market breaker, nothing like it was out at the time, now it is in everything. Then to tout your product as the "Innovative" one, when this board has been mixing those compounds for years, I dont understand the logic.

DS has been here bringing true innovation to the industry. Alot of research and development goes with DS, and if you look at their track record, they dont act as followers, but leaders.

Im not saying your product works better or less than DS, but to say they arent innovators is just plain and simple wrong.

Adams

Ok first of all its been published since 1997 in two studies (done by people who have nothing to do with AX) and known for many years before 1997 that 3,4-Divanillyltetrahydrofuran is a lignan found in Nettle that binds to SHBG. Calling up China and saying "hey we will pay you to standardize nettle for min. blabla precent 3,4-Divanillyltetrahydrofuran and then selling it as some "new innovation" called "Davamil" or whatever isnt innovative.

Thats called having a company supply you with a standardized extract. It doesnt matter if someone else didnt do it before AX. Sht, I was the first one to use gypenosides in Nitric Oxide products but do you see me walking around saying it was "innovative?" No.

I know of tons of lignans, actives, natural compounds in many different plants grown in large amounts that all do something really important and useful in sports nutrition esp. in terms of increasing total and/or free test that companies are not using right now...........but me having a supplier create me a standardized extract for "xyz" from this or that plant isnt innovative.

 

[Chuck Diesel]

Here is the working thread:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=612113

It shows blood work from DT in 2005. Is that the same formula as DTH or are you just posting old bloodwork on a product you no longer sell?

It shows blood work from 2005 to today on different version of Diesel Test. The ingredients that are responsible for those results that are the "core" of DIESEL TEST have been in all DT formulas. The only thing that has changed is the inital DT tabs were about 850mg each and now they are 1770mg each with other ingredients.

 

[jbono731]

I am running the DTH at 6 a day right now, and have been for about 3 weeks. Nobody has mentioned a smell, but maybe they are just being nice :think:

 

[Chuck Diesel]

Do you not have a write up on this? A write up articulating why you put each in there. Just curious why you chose some of the ingredients in there. Some of them have turned up to be pretty useless.

I would like to read the science and reasoning behind your flagship product. I would like to see DTH defended. See your side of the story.

Adams

Sorry, your not going to see a break down on why every ingredient is in DT and specifically what they are standardized for and why. Its called a trade secret. What you will see by typing in "DIESEL TEST" in the search box here and at bb.com is tons of threads, logs and reviews on DT showing increases in muscle hardness, aggression (spec. in the gym), fast HTPA recovery during PCT, strength gains, PR's, ect...you also will see as seen by someone posted in this thead that those who have used ACTX and DTH prefer DTH.

I dont have to defend DTH like this is some argument of two products in theory with no real world usage of the products going on.

 

[Chuck Diesel]

I am running the DTH at 6 a day right now, and have been for about 3 weeks. Nobody has mentioned a smell, but maybe they are just being nice :think:

What kind of post is that? How is the product working for you.......DTH has a smell because each tab is like 1700mg of mostly herbal extracts. They probably smell like extracts of various herbs.

 

[jbono731]

The DTH is working very well for me I am definatly happy with my choice of trying it out. Definatly loving it, I was just saying I havent had any comments about smelling (meaning ME smelling aka body oder. . .NOT the actual pills) . . .that is all

 

[DaveGabe24]

This DTH has me very curious actually. I did try 2 bottles of ActX and loved it Looking to compare MassFX and DTH vs ActX in the near future. Once I get some $$ saved up :thumbsup: All solid products imo.

 

[Chuck Diesel]

This DTH has me very curious actually. I did try 2 bottles of ActX and loved it Looking to compare MassFX and DTH vs ActX in the near future. Once I get some $$ saved up :thumbsup: All solid products imo.

Did you use Actx solo, ie standalone because most people that have used it stacked it with something related to boosting test also. But anyway, let us know because their has only been about 3 or 4 people that used both and said which one they liked better (all said DTH), but hey 3 or 4 isnt a large amount of people to flat out say one works better than the other....standalone.

Come to think about it, I have never, not once seen anyone post anywhere that they have used DTH and Actx standalone and like actx better......I have seen the reverse over and over but thats just me, maybe I need to do some more searching.

 

[DaveGabe24]

Did you use Actx solo, ie standalone because most people that have used it stacked it with something related to boosting test also. But anyway, let us know because their has only been about 3 or 4 people that used both and said which one they liked better (all said DTH), but hey 3 or 4 isnt a large amount of people to flat out say one works better than the other....standalone.

Come to think about it, I have never, not once seen anyone post anywhere that they have used DTH and Actx standalone and like actx better......I have seen the reverse over and over but thats just me, maybe I need to do some more searching.

Yeah I used it as a stand-alone. I'm not a huge fan of making MASS MONSTER STACK with products XYZ...then two months later you want to use some products again and you don't know which product did which. I'll be using MassFX (the orig.) and DTH as stand-alones as well.

I will definitely let you know. I have 2 bottles of MassFX i traded for, will be starting them March 1st. DTH will be sometime within the next 6 months. Ideally over the summer when I have some cash to swing.

 

[Sldge]

that link does work if u take the spaces out capt. obvious.....and btw what's with all the maca post? diesel test was the sht before it even had maca. I think its hella funny that you think I'm really going to break down why every ingredient in dth was included.

Maca is one of the ingredients in your current formula according to your label. Its another compound that does nothing for boosting test. But just like 90% of the rest of the formula you have it in there.

I knew you were going to ignore the science and refuse to tell anyone why you choose to use what you did. But I guess I should expect that from someone who obvioulsy doesnt understand the science.

 

[Sldge]

Do you not have a write up on this? A write up articulating why you put each in there. Just curious why you chose some of the ingredients in there. Some of them have turned up to be pretty useless.

I would like to read the science and reasoning behind your flagship product. I would like to see DTH defended. See your side of the story.

Adams

Of course he doesnt. He doesnt understand the science behind it. He made a great formula for sexual performance, but thats it.

 

[Sldge]

Ok first of all its been published since 1997 in two studies (done by people who have nothing to do with AX) and known for many years before 1997 that 3,4-Divanillyltetrahydrofuran is a lignan found in Nettle that binds to SHBG. Calling up China and saying "hey we will pay you to standardize nettle for min. blabla precent 3,4-Divanillyltetrahydrofuran and then selling it as some "new innovation" called "Davamil" or whatever isnt innovative.

Thats called having a company supply you with a standardized extract. It doesnt matter if someone else didnt do it before AX. Sht, I was the first one to use gypenosides in Nitric Oxide products but do you see me walking around saying it was "innovative?" No.

I know of tons of lignans, actives, natural compounds in many different plants grown in large amounts that all do something really important and useful in sports nutrition esp. in terms of increasing total and/or free test that companies are not using right now...........but me having a supplier create me a standardized extract for "xyz" from this or that plant isnt innovative.

Its innovative because before me NO ONE ever thought of raising test or using that extract for this industry. The only reason you use it now is because of me.

Congrats on finding gypenosides but incase you didnt read this thread is about ACTX and DTH, not NO products.

So you know of all these special lignans and extracts but you continue to use crap instead of using something that you think works. That makes total sense. Thats the difference between a company like yours and mine. I wouldnt put a product out if I had to use bull**** compounds, Id work my ass off to get what I need made, which is exactly what was done with Divanil.

 

[Sldge]

It shows blood work from 2005 to today on different version of Diesel Test. The ingredients that are responsible for those results that are the "core" of DIESEL TEST have been in all DT formulas. The only thing that has changed is the inital DT tabs were about 850mg each and now they are 1770mg each with other ingredients.

So it is old bloodwork...

 

[Sldge]

Sorry, your not going to see a break down on why every ingredient is in DT and specifically what they are standardized for and why. Its called a trade secret. What you will see by typing in "DIESEL TEST" in the search box here and at bb.com is tons of threads, logs and reviews on DT showing increases in muscle hardness, aggression (spec. in the gym), fast HTPA recovery during post cycle therapy, strength gains, PR's, ect...you also will see as seen by someone posted in this thead that those who have used ACTX and DTH prefer DTH.

I dont have to defend DTH like this is some argument of two products in theory with no real world usage of the products going on.

So you are still ignoring the science and you dont want to tell your customers why it is you used those compounds for this specific formula. You sound exactly like a shady company who has the exact same answer as you.

Tell us the truth Chuck, your private label this product from someone else and have no idea why these compounds are being used.

 

[Sldge]

Did you use Actx solo, ie standalone because most people that have used it stacked it with something related to boosting test also. But anyway, let us know because their has only been about 3 or 4 people that used both and said which one they liked better (all said DTH), but hey 3 or 4 isnt a large amount of people to flat out say one works better than the other....standalone.

Come to think about it, I have never, not once seen anyone post anywhere that they have used DTH and Actx standalone and like actx better......I have seen the reverse over and over but thats just me, maybe I need to do some more searching.

What a joke. Chuck keep trying to put other companies products down in order to promote yours. Thats really shows how little you know about your product. You arent even willing to discuss your own ingredients but you want to put others down.

 

[Chuck Diesel]

dude, seriously I'm cracking up at your attempts to piss me off into telling you the "reason" dth does what it does. my customers don't buy products based on "theory" they buy products wanting to know "what will this product do for me." having the money to have a standardized extract made isn't "innovative," but you keep thinking dth is only good for libido......in the meanwhile why don't you finf me on post on any board of anyone saying they like actx over dth......cuz I can quote several where people say they liked dth over actx.

 

[Chuck Diesel]

So you are still ignoring the science and you dont want to tell your customers why it is you used those compounds for this specific formula. You sound exactly like a shady company who has the exact same answer as you.

Tell us the truth Chuck, your private label this product from someone else and have no idea why these compounds are being used.

Can you stop with word "compound." Actx contain herbal extracts. There are no "compounds".....and truth be told, Im sure a lot of people in the industry knew or saw the research saying 3,4-divanillyltetrahydrofuran binds to SHGB, any search in pubmed trying to figure out why nettle works or has a benificial effect on the prostate will show this 1997 study:

"Lignans from the roots of Urtica dioica and their metabolites bind to human sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG). The affinity of (-)-3,4-divanillyltetrahydrofuran was outstandingly high. These findings are discussed with respect to potential beneficial effects of plant lignans on benign prostatic hyperplasia (BPH)."

Having the money to do so and calling some china factory and saying "standardize nettle for 3,4-divanillyltetrahydrofuran" isnt innovative. Its not some discovery, its not creating some new synergestic product......just because you slap "Davinil" on it which comes from the word divanillyltetrahydrofuran doesnt cause for a party like some new "compound" was synthesized. So stop with the "compound" talk or the "yeah we introduced blablabla."

 

[Sldge]

dude, seriously I'm cracking up at your attempts to piss me off into telling you the "reason" dth does what it does. my customers don't buy products based on "theory" they buy products wanting to know "what will this product do for me." having the money to have a standardized extract made isn't "innovative," but you keep thinking dth is only good for libido......in the meanwhile why don't you finf me on post on any board of anyone saying they like actx over dth......cuz I can quote several where people say they liked dth over actx.

Chuck there is a poll at the top of this thread that shows almost twice as many people like ACTX. Thats good enough for me. Keep thinking you dont need science or that you dont need to tell anyone about your product besides what YOU "claim" it will do. That just proves my point. You have no clue what you are talking about.

 

[Sldge]

Can you stop with word "compound." Actx contain herbal extracts. There are no "compounds".....and truth be told, Im sure a lot of people in the industry knew or saw the research saying 3,4-divanillyltetrahydrofuran binds to SHGB, any search in pubmed trying to figure out why nettle works or has a benificial effect on the prostate will show this 1997 study:

"Lignans from the roots of Urtica dioica and their metabolites bind to human sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG). The affinity of (-)-3,4-divanillyltetrahydrofuran was outstandingly high. These findings are discussed with respect to potential beneficial effects of plant lignans on benign prostatic hyperplasia (BPH)."

Having the money to do so and calling some china factory and saying "standardize nettle for 3,4-divanillyltetrahydrofuran" isnt innovative. Its not some discovery, its not creating some new synergestic product......just because you slap "Davinil" on it which comes from the word divanillyltetrahydrofuran doesnt cause for a party like some new "compound" was synthesized. So stop with the "compound" talk or the "yeah we introduced blablabla."

Well if all these people in the industry knew about it and how well it work NO ONE used it before me. NO ONE had an extract higher then 15% before me and now everyone uses including you in their products. So youre welcome.

It just goes to show how many people copy and how many people are innovative.

 

[Chuck Diesel]

One guy xcriticalbench used DTH first then Ax, the rest used AX first then DTH. Show me one post anywhere where someone used DTH and AX and recommend it over DTH. If I recall the only person that recommeded DTH over AX was the guy who did so because DTH at the time was $54.something at bb.com (which now its something like 42.95......AND that was the very first version of DIESEL TEST Hardcore, the current formula of DTH I woudnt even compare to AX, sht I would compare the new Trib Test Extreme (with Nettle standardized for 3,4-Divanillyltetrahydrofuran) to AX.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=4139613&page=5&post#128

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=4404883&page=2&post#37

One guy went "neutral" the others didnt compare, the only other straight up comparision was:

Owen 70: "Libido, semen volume, aggression,and gym presence were all more improved on DTH than on Activate Xtreme. However, DTH is roughly $10-15 dollars more than AX (at time tested DTH was $54.95 now DTH is $42.95, $1 more than AX at bb.com). If money were not an issue, and/or the main thing you are looking to improve is one of those main categories; Diesel Test Hardcore by Get Diesel is for you."
_____

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=5003103&post#5

xcriticalbench: "i've used 2. Activate Xtreme seemed to give a better recomp.. while diesel test showed more results of higher test.. like libido was a lot higher, i had a ton more energy, i was fuller.. etc."

_______________

Final Review

Needless to say I went from being pretty shutdown with little Grape nuts to a very successful post cycle therapy. I had started to make a comeback on the SERM but definitely ‘felt’ it kick in after just 3 days on the DTH. However note I had preloaded with DT2010 for the preceding 5 days so I was able to start the DTH at 5 caps/day.

Things to note. During my post cycle therapy I hit numerous PR’s including my all time best Bench of 630, a raw Deadlift of 660, and a 755 Squat. Most of these were set 3-5 weeks after completion of PH cycle. My energy levels were up, my libido picked up over where it had been precycle, and strength levels continued to remain strong all through my post cycle therapy.

Only negative I noted was that I had restless sleep when I took the last dose within 5-6hrs or less before I went to bed.

My Total Test Levels:

February 136
After Restore/Activate (just before PH cycle) 453
After completion SERM/Diesel Test Hardcore PCT 686

That’s correct. My total test is up 233 points over what they were prior to my suppressive cycle!!!

Unfortunately my Liver Enzymes are still a bit elevated (AST 111, ALT 82) so I will have to go back on LL and mega dose milk thistle and minimize supplement intake till these come back in line.

In regards to my PCT with DTH & SERM

The SERM was Toremifene. There is no doubt it played its role. All I know for sure is that the combo of the SERM and DTH was the best PCT I?ve ever used. If I ever do a cycle again that is what I will use as PCT again without a doubt.

The first bloodwork results were taken while taking ALRI?s Bad Ass Mass. Its not supposed to be suppressive and is not a PH, and I had not touched a prohomone for a couple years prior to that. So I can only guess that the BAM somehow suppressed me or threw something off in the test. I then ran Activate and Restore about a month later. I wouldn?t call this a PCT as there was no ?Cycle? to do the PCT on. My test levels still came in low but much higher than when on the BAM.

I then did my first PH cycle in years and got very suppressed by the end of the 6 week Halodrol (1.5x dose @ 75mg) and Finigenx (3x dose @ 18ml).

One thing to note is I did one week solo of the Toremifene at the beginning of PCT and another week solo of DTH at the end. I could certainly tell that the DTH had a significant effect on the very positive recovery I experienced. There as a big difference between the Torem alone and then within days of adding DTH.

 

[Chuck Diesel]

Well if all these people in the industry knew about it and how well it work NO ONE used it before me. NO ONE had an extract higher then 15% before me and now everyone uses including you in their products. So youre welcome.

It just goes to show how many people copy and how many people are innovative.

Hey thats not innovative. Thats having an extract made. Everyone isnt including it in anything. You only use it because its a way to make an herbal test booster without really "formulating" anything. I dont do products where 90% of the results are based on one herb. I do formulations.

I could tell you some stuff about alot of herbs thats just an issue of having a higher extract made, its not an issue of being "innovative."

You want to innovate, make a creatine strength/power product above everything out like NOS ETHER......make a pre-workout energizer that increases training intensity and motivation and drive without just giving people a mega dose of one ingredient and some caffeine, thats innovative.

 

[Sldge]

Choose your weapon:

Activate Xtreme 53 63.10%
Diesel Test Hardcore 31 36.90%

Winner: ACTX

 

[Chuck Diesel]

Choose your weapon:

Activate Xtreme 53 63.10%
Diesel Test Hardcore 31 36.90%

Winner: ACTX

hahaha thats because you and I both know polls are about popularity. If the criteria was "dont vote unless you have used both products it would be a different story."

Look at who wins all the "best product of the year awards" at bb.com.....cell mass best creatine product....ok.

Let me re-post:

One guy xcriticalbench used DTH first then Ax, the rest used AX first then DTH. Show me one post anywhere where someone used DTH and AX and recommend it over DTH. If I recall the only person that recommeded DTH over AX was the guy who did so because DTH at the time was $54.something at bb.com (which now its something like 42.95......AND that was the very first version of DIESEL TEST Hardcore, the current formula of DTH I woudnt even compare to AX, sht I would compare the new Trib Test Extreme (with Nettle standardized for 3,4-Divanillyltetrahydrofuran) to AX.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=4139613&page=5&post#128

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=4404883&page=2&post#37

One guy went "neutral" the others didnt compare, the only other straight up comparision was:

Owen 70: "Libido, semen volume, aggression,and gym presence were all more improved on DTH than on Activate Xtreme. However, DTH is roughly $10-15 dollars more than AX (at time tested DTH was $54.95 now DTH is $42.95, $1 more than AX at bb.com). If money were not an issue, and/or the main thing you are looking to improve is one of those main categories; Diesel Test Hardcore by Get Diesel is for you."
_____

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=5003103&post#5

xcriticalbench: "i've used 2. Activate Xtreme seemed to give a better recomp.. while diesel test showed more results of higher test.. like libido was a lot higher, i had a ton more energy, i was fuller.. etc."

_______________

Final Review

Needless to say I went from being pretty shutdown with little Grape nuts to a very successful post cycle therapy. I had started to make a comeback on the SERM but definitely ‘felt’ it kick in after just 3 days on the DTH. However note I had preloaded with DT2010 for the preceding 5 days so I was able to start the DTH at 5 caps/day.

Things to note. During my post cycle therapy I hit numerous PR’s including my all time best Bench of 630, a raw Deadlift of 660, and a 755 Squat. Most of these were set 3-5 weeks after completion of PH cycle. My energy levels were up, my libido picked up over where it had been precycle, and strength levels continued to remain strong all through my post cycle therapy.

Only negative I noted was that I had restless sleep when I took the last dose within 5-6hrs or less before I went to bed.

My Total Test Levels:

February 136
After Restore/Activate (just before PH cycle) 453
After completion SERM/Diesel Test Hardcore PCT 686

That’s correct. My total test is up 233 points over what they were prior to my suppressive cycle!!!

Unfortunately my Liver Enzymes are still a bit elevated (AST 111, ALT 82) so I will have to go back on LL and mega dose milk thistle and minimize supplement intake till these come back in line.

In regards to my PCT with DTH & SERM

The SERM was Toremifene. There is no doubt it played its role. All I know for sure is that the combo of the SERM and DTH was the best PCT I?ve ever used. If I ever do a cycle again that is what I will use as PCT again without a doubt.

The first bloodwork results were taken while taking ALRI?s Bad Ass Mass. Its not supposed to be suppressive and is not a PH, and I had not touched a prohomone for a couple years prior to that. So I can only guess that the BAM somehow suppressed me or threw something off in the test. I then ran Activate and Restore about a month later. I wouldn?t call this a PCT as there was no ?Cycle? to do the PCT on. My test levels still came in low but much higher than when on the BAM.

I then did my first PH cycle in years and got very suppressed by the end of the 6 week Halodrol (1.5x dose @ 75mg) and Finigenx (3x dose @ 18ml).

One thing to note is I did one week solo of the Toremifene at the beginning of PCT and another week solo of DTH at the end. I could certainly tell that the DTH had a significant effect on the very positive recovery I experienced. There as a big difference between the Torem alone and then within days of adding DTH.

 

[Sldge]

Hey thats not innovative. Thats having an extract made. Everyone isnt including it in anything. You only use it because its a way to make an herbal test booster without really "formulating" anything. I dont do products where 90% of the results are based on one herb. I do formulations.

I could tell you some stuff about alot of herbs thats just an issue of having a higher extract made, its not an issue of being "innovative."

You want to innovate, make a creatine strength/power product above everything out like NOS ETHER......make a pre-workout energizer that increases training intensity and motivation and drive without just giving people a mega dose of one ingredient and some caffeine, thats innovative.

ACTX isnt based on one herb either. Im also not afraid to discuss any of the science behind any of the compounds I use or the science behind each one of my products.

You dont formulate anything, you buy your formula from someone else. There is nothing wrong with that just dont claim otherwise.

This thread isnt about being innovative or NO2 products. If you want to talk about those start a new thread. Its funny that everytime the ingredients in your formula are questioned YOU choose to bring something else up instead of discussing the topic.

 

[Sldge]

If the criteria was "dont vote unless you have used both products it would be a different story."

No it wouldnt but keep believing it anyway.

 

[Chuck Diesel]

ACTX isnt based on one herb either. Im also not afraid to discuss any of the science behind any of the compounds I use or the science behind each one of my products.

You dont formulate anything, you buy your formula from someone else. There is nothing wrong with that just dont claim otherwise.

This thread isnt about being innovative or NO2 products. If you want to talk about those start a new thread. Its funny that everytime the ingredients in your formula are questioned YOU choose to bring something else up instead of discussing the topic.

Ok, yeah.....well I must have a source for some kick ass formulas.

I gotta do other stuff more important than this convo. with you but I will check in later to see if you post one comment from anyone saying they used both products and liked actx better.

actx is based on one herb per se....no nettle, no product.

cya

 

[Sldge]

After completion SERM/Diesel Test Hardcore post cycle therapy 686.

So this bloodwork shows you need to take a strong prescription SERM with your product for their to be a boost in test. Good job and great quote.

 

[Sldge]

Ok, yeah.....well I must have a source for some kick ass formulas.

I gotta do other stuff more important than this convo. with you but I will check in later to see if you post one comment from anyone saying they used both products and liked actx better.

actx is based on one herb per se....no nettle, no product.

cya

Like I said nothing wrong with private labeling just dont continue to pass off that you know what you are talking about when you have no clue. And notice that you are choosing to leave this thread instead of answering any of the questions that deal with actual science.

Why wouldnt I use Divanil, its the best compound available for increasing free test and its the compound I brought to the industry. LMAO. If you understood the science you would realise there is far more to the formula then just Divanil.

 

[Chuck Diesel]

Like I said nothing wrong with private labeling just dont continue to pass off that you know what you are talking about when you have no clue. And notice that you are choosing to leave this thread instead of answering any of the questions that deal with actual science.

Why wouldnt I use Divanil, its the best compound available for increasing free test and its the compound I brought to the industry. LMAO. If you understood the science you would realise there is far more to the formula then just Divanil.

Ok private label......hahaha.

I didnt say dont use it, I said using it isnt innovative....and please its not a compound....its an active from Nettle root. I was simply saying if you take out the nettle you have no product. That means 90% of the effects come from nettle. I didnt say everything else in there was useless or nothing like that.......what you should be doing is searching for those users of actx and dth that liked actx better because as of right now they dont exist.

 

[rcarracedo]

I can't read through all of this. I need a supplement that will help with size and strength. Preferably something that works quickly. I've heard a lot of RPM/Drive, Activate Extreme or NHA Stack. Can somene please suggest a stack that will help me with size and strength? If it helps with cutting even better.