4-AD by AMS...any good?

[xtraflossy]

Just remember, at some point (maybe) your total test will be affected as some degree of supression occurs.
You would have to up the dose at that time to make up for the loss of your natty test.

 

[TeamSavage]

It is already posted. My total test on Nov. 21 was 232. I took my first dose on Nov. 25. My total test today is 427. Just read above, it's all there.

Cool, thanks. When you said Saturday I thought you meant Nov 18, before the first test. Nov 25 makes a lot more sense.

So a pretty significant increase then... Interesting.

 

[badbart]

Anyone have any idea of what a persons total test would be on a high dose of 4ad or a light test cycle?

 

[morpheus1914]

I would think it would depend solely on someone's baseline. I'm still wondering if 200 is that significant of an increase though.......

 

[morpheus1914]

Just remember, at some point (maybe) your total test will be affected as some degree of supression occurs.
You would have to up the dose at that time to make up for the loss of your natty test.

That's what I was thinking. That's why I'm gonna test it every other day. See where I peak at, and watch for a decrease. Then up the dose.

 

[TeamSavage]

I don't think 200 would be that significant if your test was already high. But with a baseline of 232, a 200 increase is almost doubling, which is something. At the least, it shows that this product does increase testosterone levels, even if the increase isn't huge.

If you're up to it, perhaps try a double or triple dose before one of your tests and see if this results in a greater increase?

 

[xtraflossy]

Actually, in regards to the 200 point increase....
200 total point in TOTAL test wouldn't be that signifficient.

Free Test, on the other hand, much diffent. I am ASSUMING that the test converted from the 4-AD is FREE??

In that case, you just upped your free test by 200 !!! THAT, is not too shabby
(Now- here;s where it CAN get interesting...)

We have baseline levels, and the increase.
What would be a way to factor in the amount of 4-AD you have taken either totally, or that day before the test, to find out what the real conversion rate might be..

 

[The Colonel 333]

That's what I was thinking. That's why I'm gonna test it every other day. See where I peak at, and watch for a decrease. Then up the dose.

Nice, keep it up bro. I am sure alot of people are gonna be watching those numbers.
Damn I wish I worked in a lab.

 

[morpheus1914]

OK, today's values.....

11-29-06

FSH - 4.08 mIU/mL
LH - 4.75 mIU/mL
Test - 432 ng/dL

So about the same now. One thing I have noticed is my aggression has really increased as well as my irritability... geez.....:frustrate

 

[TeamSavage]

Morph - what time of day are you taking these tests?

Anybody know how 4-AD might cause LH and FSH to increase in the short-term?

 

[natiels]

Morph - what time of day are you taking these tests?

Anybody know how 4-AD might cause LH and FSH to increase in the short-term?

There is a theory that ATD blocks some of the androgen receptors in the hypothalmus thus causing your hypothalmus to think that you have lower levels of androgens therefore upregulating test production.

There are some threads that discuss this. When ALRI released Ultra HOT (ATD product) this was one of their major marketing points.

I dunno, 4-AD only has a bit of ATD in it. You asked for a theory tho and that is what I gave you . It is pretty interesting to be able to see these numbers on a daily basis.

 

[TeamSavage]

I dunno, 4-AD only has a bit of ATD in it. You asked for a theory tho and that is what I gave you . It is pretty interesting to be able to see these numbers on a daily basis.

That makes sense...

Yes, it is very interesting to see these numbers. Logs lie, but labwork doesn't.

Thanks again, Morph!

 

[xtraflossy]

So, aside from the numbers, is it doing anything for you in the gym?

 

[morpheus1914]

Morph - what time of day are you taking these tests?

I draw my blood around 1-2pm each time I test....

So, aside from the numbers, is it doing anything for you in the gym?

Well, I did upper body today. Not really any strength increase as of yet. However, my muscles didn't really feel as fatigued as usual from this particular workout. So I just kept going. Right now, I feel better than usual (as far as lactic acid build up and overall fatigue) for this workout. Again, I definately feel more aggressive than usual. :shoot:

 

[PastorofMuppets]

Quit screwing around and double up the dose to see if there is a cap already jeez.

 

[morpheus1914]

Double up the dose?? I am ready to up the dose, but isn't doubling it extreme at this point?? Anyone else got an idea? Here are today's results, pretty much the same at this point...

12-5-06

FSH - 4.42 mIU/mL
LH - 5.38 mIU/mL
Test - 435 ng/dL

Any ideas??

 

[JonK]

Try upping the dose the day before or earlier of the day you do some tests and see if that raises your levels at all.

 

[TeamSavage]

The hormonal effect should be more-or-less immediate, so even if you don't want to raise/double the dose for the duration, you could try it for two days, drawing the blood on the second day.

 

[morpheus1914]

I'll try that tonight then. I'll take 300mg tonight, then 300 again in the morning. Then have blood draw around 1pm.

 

[JonK]

I'll try that tonight then. I'll take 300mg tonight, then 300 again in the morning. Then have blood draw around 1pm.

sounds good, this will definately tell us if its ATD raising test levels or if it actually has an anabolic formula in it

 

[morpheus1914]

OK. I doubled the dose. I took 300mg last night, 300mg this morning, and this afternoon. Here are today's results:

12-7-06

FSH - 4.11 mIU/mL
LH - 2.24 mIU/mL
Test - 427 ng/dL

ANY THOUGHTS???? please?.?.?.?......... Test didn't budge....:think: I will continue this double dose tonight and tomorrow and test again tomorrow to see if there is any change.... I'm a little disappointed....... :sad: Hope someone has some insight...:aargh:

 

[JonK]

OK. I doubled the dose. I took 300mg last night, 300mg this morning, and this afternoon. Here are today's results:

12-7-06

FSH - 4.11 mIU/mL
LH - 2.24 mIU/mL
Test - 427 ng/dL

ANY THOUGHTS???? please?.?.?.?......... Test didn't budge....:think: I will continue this double dose tonight and tomorrow and test again tomorrow to see if there is any change.... I'm a little disappointed....... :sad: Hope someone has some insight...:aargh:

maybe it could be that it takes longer to effect hormonal levels? either that, or the increase was because of the ATD

 

[East1600Plus]

i was told that this stuff is nothing more than just a fancy thing of DHEA they had tests of both this stuff and a bottle of DHEA at BB.com and they were both basically the same

 

[stxnas]

That was my conclusion when I first read the ingredients...I won't say that I was hoping that I was wrong though...The write up on this is very clever and leaves a lot to interpretation, "We have licensed these advanced delivery system legal formulations for utilizing naturally occurring horomones to provide the most advanced system on the market today for blocking negative side effects while increasing free testosterone."

 

[xtraflossy]

First, I don't beleive that the "added" and type of Anti-e into the product. It contains that anti-e in the ingreadients becasue DHEA breaks into a small amount of it durring conversion. Wether or not I'm correct in this won't act like a chemist. BUT- I know that DHEA has a cortisol blocking/lowering action,.. metabolites of DHEA are what AX's Retain is comprised of.

ALSO, remember that their "4-AD" doesnt convert into "diol", you need to use the original androstenodine conversion numbers (around 5% I beleive).

Here's what Im thinking...
We have already seen your total test double since starting. So there is proof that it did provide an increase.
You have to remember that the andro it's converting to will aromatize, and Im sure the amount of atd produced in the conversion is not going to keep that from happening very well.

ALSO, remember that since you doubled the dose the night before (which I dont know why you would do that anyways, since the elevation would be about non existant the next morning) and that morning, you also doubled your body's supression in addition.
There is a certin point where you can take andro and it will just act like HRT, and your body will supress it's natty test in accordence to your dosing to make the "total test number" your used to haveing.

Idea: How about, when you take your test in the morning (I think thats when you do it) DONT TAKE THE MORNING DOSE.
See what your test (natty) levels come out as.

If they come out less then your starting point (which Im sure they will) then you can accurately guage what the dose increase has done for you.

Remember, initially your numbers doubled. to about 400, from about 200. That's a +200 increase.
If your natty test is now supressed to say, 100(by testing when you havent dosed for about 8 hours+), and your still testing (after you continue with the dosing) in the 400's on your "double dose" then you know that the double dose is producing a +300 effect. While testing in the same range (400) you will be able to see how much is actually being converted since you have your now natty readings, and your current dosing.

 

[morpheus1914]

Before I examine xtraflossy's latest post, here are today's results...

12-8-06

FSH - 4.80 mIU/mL
LH - 5.33 mIU/mL
Test - 678 ng/mL

:thumbsup:

So what's next? I wonder how much my nat. test has been suppressed thus far? I am considering staying at this dosage. If I do, how much longer should I run this cycle?

:duel:

 

[stxnas]

Nicccce

 

[800mrunner]

you are prob. spending way more money than those type of results are worth.

i used to love/buy all the new "innovative" stuff to hit the market. now i say piss on it becuase 99% is hyped up crap.

 

[morpheus1914]

you are prob. spending way more money than those type of results are worth.

I guess I can agree. But I have nowhere else to go. I am very skeptical about most supps in general and usually just stick to a vitamin and protein. I would luv to try the "real" thing. I just jumped on this because no one seemed to have a clear cut answer as to whether it worked, and since it converted to test, I knew I could measure it myself and give that answer. Anyway, I got a GREAT deal on it, and they even threw in a free bottle of AROM-X, their so-called PCT.
:gotsearch

 

[JonK]

Before I examine xtraflossy's latest post, here are today's results...

12-8-06

FSH - 4.80 mIU/mL
LH - 5.33 mIU/mL
Test - 678 ng/mL

:thumbsup:

So what's next? I wonder how much my nat. test has been suppressed thus far? I am considering staying at this dosage. If I do, how much longer should I run this cycle?

:duel:

hmmm so your test did go up more. I wonder what this means

 

[wormwood]

If it were me i'd increase the dosage again to see if there's some kind of cap on the elevation of test that occurs. too bad its got that damn atd in it we have no real way of knowing if that may be causing a false positive for the increase in test. but nonetheless if you increase the dosage again and the test increases with it, i may pick up a bottle of this to run during my next phera-plex/h-max cycle to see if i get the benefits of what i used to get with 4-ad.

 

[TeamSavage]

Wouldn't it take more than a day for ATD to increase natty test? 4AD only has 3mg ATD per capsule. If I'm not mistaken, Morph was originally taking 3 capsules per day (9mg ATD) and just doubled his dose to 6 capsules per day (18mg ATD). Considering
(a) the test-increasing effects of ATD usually build over many days or weeks, and
(b) usually 25-100mg of ATD is used to increase testosterone,
I think it's safe to say that the bulk of the test increase is coming from the diandrone, not the ATD.

I'm certainly not an expert on ATD, though, that's just my best guess.

So far, it seems like the diandrone EE shows some promise, but this 4AD product is way too underdosed to be affordable. Taking 6 caps (600mg diandrone-ee) per day, Morph's test has gone from ~200 to ~600. Take it at 1200-2400mg/day and maybe the increase in test might be comparable to a moderate dose of real 4-androdiol.

 

[xtraflossy]

If it were me i'd increase the dosage again to see if there's some kind of cap on the elevation of test that occurs. too bad its got that damn atd in it we have no real way of knowing if that may be causing a false positive for the increase in test. but nonetheless if you increase the dosage again and the test increases with it, i may pick up a bottle of this to run during my next phera-plex/h-max cycle to see if i get the benefits of what i used to get with 4-ad.

I beleive the ATD in the ingredieants is just a metabolite from the DHEA side of the 4-dhea.
It would be no more effective then taking DHEA- me thinks

 

[The Colonel 333]

Any updates to add ?

 

[Lawhammer]

Oh well. I guess its back to the drawing board. What's next?

 

[broken7]

try combining some other stuff like
TRIBULUS
VIRALOID
3,17-dioxo-etiochol-1,4,6-triene (A.K.A. ATD)
6,17-dioxo-etiocholene-3-ol (A.K.A. 3-OHAT)
17-HD
ZMA
Avena Sativa (aka wild oat)
Tongkat Ali (aka Long Jack aka Eurycoma Longifolia)

and see what kind of test levels you get

 

[The Colonel 333]

Now why on earth would he do that. I think the purpose of this thread is to see if the ONE compound is any good/ or works. Now your recomending he add an aditional 8 more products to the mix. ??? :think: Theoretically 7 of those could be worthless and one not. So he would take all 8 raise his test levels more from the one product and we have no idea which one. Most people would assume that all the products worked. Kinda pointless in my opinion.

 

[luke1984]

Now why on earth would he do that. I think the purpose of this thread is to see if the ONE compound is any good/ or works. Now your recomending he add an aditional 8 more products to the mix. ??? :think: Theoretically 7 of those could be worthless and one not. So he would take all 8 raise his test levels more from the one product and we have no idea which one. Most people would assume that all the products worked. Kinda pointless in my opinion.

I agree combining would be pointless, but it sure would be interesting to see what for example, normal DHEA would do to his test levels.

 

[TeamSavage]

Now why on earth would he do that. I think the purpose of this thread is to see if the ONE compound is any good/ or works. Now your recomending he add an aditional 8 more products to the mix. ??? :think: Theoretically 7 of those could be worthless and one not. So he would take all 8 raise his test levels more from the one product and we have no idea which one. Most people would assume that all the products worked. Kinda pointless in my opinion.

Come on... adding 8 additional variables won't complicate the experiment that much!

 

[broken7]

I should clarify what I ment was he should abandon this experiment
and your right we'd have no idea which products were working and which weren't so maybe if he tried one at a time found which ones worked then later combined the ones that worked

 

[The Colonel 333]

Come on... adding 8 additional variables won't complicate the experiment that much!

LOL ..... the more the merrier right ?

Morpheus you all right brother ? Haven't heard from you in a while. Hopefully your silence is only because you have been real busy lately.

 

[morpheus1914]

Yeah. Been real busy. Christmas and all (got 4 kids to shop for). Still been hittin it hard. I've already started the PCT. No new lab values to report. Only had one bad day where I felt like crap after cuttin the 4-AD. My wife was hatin it that night too.:run: All good now. Strength still feels good. Even though it's not cost efficient, I'm considering stockin' up on a couple of bottles of this (about 4), then run another cycle after the first of the year and keep the dosage around 1200mg. I know many think this probably wouldn't think it would be worth it, but hey, I'm trying to get my strong arm on.

 

[xtraflossy]

So, Did you have any gains weight gains?

 

[Get SwuLL]

whats up yall....i just came across this forum and just wanted to tell you guys that i have tried this stuff out. I took 3 capsules daily expecting good things and i got absolutely nothing. May i also include that i have never done a steroid/prohormone in my life so that is another reason why i was expecting good gains. Morpheus showed that if you double the intake results maybe more promising but taking 6 a day from a bottle of 60 gives you 10 days for like $50....screw this stuff yall

 

[jm88]

just wanted to let everyone know that the new AMS products are a huge joke...and their claims of comparing it to the old 4-ad type products are an even bigger one. They simply glorified new junk with an old prominent name. I took the triple stack of their products, and even took them how the website suggested and did not notice much at all, especially considering the cost. It bugs me to see companies turn a profit from products such as these, so spend wisely and turn to other supplements.

 

[b unit]

just wanted to let everyone know that the new AMS products are a huge joke...and their claims of comparing it to the old 4-ad type products are an even bigger one. They simply glorified new junk with an old prominent name. I took the triple stack of their products, and even took them how the website suggested and did not notice much at all, especially considering the cost. It bugs me to see companies turn a profit from products such as these, so spend wisely and turn to other supplements.

go get some havoc bro, it's the real deal!:thumbsup:

 

[luke1984]

I tried it some of that AMS 4AD, didn't do anything for me as well.
It's crap, buy some creatine instead.

 

[livebono]

My workout partner is finishing the 4-AD right now, and was not impressed at all. It's just DHEA, so I don't think anyone should waste their money on it. He didn't see any size or strength gains.

 

[Wantaknow]

1-Androsterone Supplement Facts

1-Androsterone NOT THAT GREAT!

1-Androsterone Supplement Facts
Serving Size: 1 Capsule
Servings per Container: 60
Amount Per Serving
1, 2-Dehydroisoandrosterone 100mg
Quercetin 50mg
Milk Thistle 50mg


Now everyone is asking what and how this works and with a little looking around and going to the source (Dehydroisoandrosterone). Pop this in the Wikapedia and GUESS what you find? Good old DHEA, Yep. Just a little further down in the chain, that's all. I'm not saying that it does not have its purpose, but to claim that this stuff has the bioavailability of the old PH or Testosterone, B^ll S&!T. Just make sure you do your research on the new so called Testosterone or PH's, their can be very very negative results due to them being so volatile, these companies will do and say anything to get their old cash crops back.

Just my thought

 

[Redeemer]

So along those lines (and I think I saw a board sponsor mention this a few months ago but the search has failed me) If you were to take a very large dose of DHEA, and use ATD to keep the E under control, would it be worth it? Both compounds are pretty cheap.